Don't make the same mistakes as me! (for non-trads)

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StartingoverVet

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I've been thinking about posting this for a while and since I don't want to study after my biochem exam today, so here it goes....

I have made a number of mistakes on my way to vet school, and now that I am here I would like to pass on some things for other non-traditional candidates to consider. Some will disagree, but so be it.

#1) Don't plan to attend vet school the minute you finish your pre-reqs. I was understandably in a rush to attend school given my "advanced" age:laugh:. Everyone on SDN talks about majors not mattering and just get your pre-reqs done and that is the path I took (and it took 3 years). Unfortunately, at least here at Penn, I find that others who have only pre-req background have it much harder than those hard core bio and pre-vet students (or masters or phD experience). If vet school is the first time you are learning anatomical terms or histology or whatever it is just that much more of a load you will have to handle. It might seem frustrating, but I would advise (and would myself given a second chance) to take as many upper level classes as you can: histology, biochem, developmental biology, neurology, immunology, pathology, nutrition, etc. At some vet schools, you will be able to place out of classes and you will be happy for the extra time, or at worst be able to be on top of material.

#2) Don't underestimate the difficulty of being a full-time student. I was working full-time and taking 2 classes a time and figured if I could handle that, Vet school wouldn't be all that different. WRONG. Sitting in classes all day is a lot different than sitting in work all day. Your job is something you are used to and does not demand the same mental processing. If you have been away from school for a long time IT WILL be an adjustment. Not impossible, of course, but probably a lot harder than you might think. For me, studying every night makes it difficult to get to sleep when I want as I need to unwind, and that leads to a vicious loss of sleep cycle which is hard to break.

#3) Take some time off. I finished my pre-reqs, took a quick vacation, moved cross country, moved into a new house and started classes. I was tired before classes even began. I gained weight. I got out of shape quickly. It was a mess from the start. Think twice if you can't get a few months off before class. The change in your lifestyle is much larger than you can imagine. I would say, the older you are, the more difficult a major change in lifestyle will be. If you are moving far away..worse. I've moved many times, but this was definitely the worst for me with all the new changes in my life.

#4) The challenge of the material.. Well, conceptually there is NOTHING difficult in vet school. It is a ton of memorization. If you are good at memorization, great. If not, get used to it. I hate memorization but can do it with enough repetition. Unfortunately I never have enough time for the repetition so it is definitely tough for me. For reference, the lowest grades I got in my pre-reqs (thru UCLA) were 2 B+ and the rest were A. I got a 1530 GRE (6.0) analytical so I am definitely not academically challenged. Without going into details, let's just say I am not in the top 1/2 of my class right now, and all I care about is surviving and passing at this point (both of which are in doubt).

#5) Stress on personal life. Pretty much knew this one going in, but living through it is another story. It is very hard to turn from a stable, mature, rock of a personality to an unsure idiot in a short period of time. Also, your spouse/SO may not be as prepared for you to deal with your personality change initially. That will be one more distraction that you don't need.


Well, that is plenty long. If I were to do it again, I would take another year of classes, probably with an extremely heavy upper level bio load my last semester and then take 6 months off. I would be rested and healthy and prepared for the task.

Then again, things are never perfect, but they could be better than they are for me. I am sure others are doing just fine, but I see here anyway, that on balance non-science, non-trads are definitely bearing a larger burden than some others in many different ways.

Good luck. If you have any specific questions let me know here or PM, and of course listen to others who may have completely different advice.

Good Luck.

SOV

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Hi SOV,

Thanks very much for taking the time to write these down. I've been planning to do about exactly everything you advise against doing (and am in a similar non-trad situation), so having a glimpse of my future from the inside is really helpful.

I may or may not go ahead and do it exactly the way you did it (and probably for the same good reasons you had when you made the decisions you did 1-2 years ago) but at least now I'll have a better sense what I'm signing up for.

Based on what I've seen of your background and personality from other posts around here, however, I'm pretty confident you're going to make it. That said, you're highly credible and if you say it's brutal, then I'll believe it's brutal.

ARF
 
Hey, StartingOverVet, I know you can make it! :luck: It doesn't matter where you are in your class as long as you pass!

I'm a non-trad, too, and I completely agree with everything you say.

#1) Don't plan to attend vet school the minute you finish your pre-reqs.

Absolutely. I did take an extra year of upper-level bio classes (two anatomy classes, histology, virology, advanced micro, etc.) to finish a second degree and just because I wanted to be absolutely sure about vet school before investing my time and energy. I'm really glad I did. Even though I don't remember nearly enough, I still think it is way easier to relearn than to be encountering completely new concepts and terms in every class.

#2) Don't underestimate the difficulty of being a full-time student.

I am also amazed at how exhausted I am, especially since I worked full time and went to school full time before. I really don't know if it is anything you can prepare yourself for, but I'd second the notion of taking some time off before vet school starts. And do try to get enough sleep. I am much less efficient at studying when my brain is tired, and I just can't pull the all nighters like my classmates anymore.

#5) Stress on personal life.

I can't speak to the stress on a relationship since I'm not in one at the moment, but it seems like if you are not rock solid going in you may be in for some rocky times. Even if you are solid, it's not going to be easy. The personality shift is real. I honestly sometimes forget that I am a grown adult who has faced much more challenging things than a stupid test: I'm sure that would seem inexplicable to a significant other.

Anyway, best of luck to you, SOV, and all you other non-trads out there! It can be done and you can do well, but it is NOT easy...
 
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Thanks for posting this! I'm slowly working though my undergraduate while working full time and continually feel frustrated for not being able to do more and for suddenly not being the rock that everyone is used to in my personal relationships. This post was a great reassurance that everything will be ok and what I've been feeling is normal.
 
It might seem frustrating, but I would advise (and would myself given a second chance) to take as many upper level classes as you can: histology, biochem, developmental biology, neurology, immunology, pathology, nutrition, etc.
This makes me feel much better about having to take biochemistry next semester for my microbiology major. And I've taken histology, even if it was a human histology course. And if I don't get into vet school this cycle, I have to take upper level virology, bacteriology and immunology. At least it won't all be for nothing. :)
 
Hmmmm... well, I know I am going to struggle with some of these as well when (if?) I go to vet school.

I am planning on taking 2-3 months off before starting school (hooray for a career that will pay me for nearly 3 months after I leave!), although some of that will be moving and selling a house, so that's on the plus side. I also don't have a significant other at the moment, although I do worry about my relationship with my dogs suffering!

I definitely worry about gaps in my education... I wish I had taken more upper division bio classes, but at least I have taken some. I really can't say I have ever been good at memorizing, but I've known this will be an issue all along, so no surprise there. I am terrified though!

I'm trying to not freak out after reading your post too much SOV, but I definitely believe you are making very good points! Maybe just being aware of the challenges ahead will help me cope when I am struggling to pass...
 
Don't plan to attend vet school the minute you finish your pre-reqs.

Take some time off.

Yes and Yes.

Especially the 2nd one for me. I wish I had given myself more time between coming out of graduate school and coming into vet school. I left graduate school completely burned out and unmotivated and fell right into vet school. Even being excited about starting school can't shake me out of a bit of a funk. I'm seriously looking forward to vacations when I can rest and rewind and recharge.

I should have given myself more time in between. ohh well.

Happy Birthday SOV :D
 
I have made a number of mistakes on my way to vet school, and now that I am here I would like to pass on some things for other non-traditional candidates to consider. Some will disagree, but so be it.


Good Luck.

SOV

What were they saying about you being a gentleman and a 'big brother' figure on the interview thread? Hit the nail on the head they did!!

Whether folks agree, disagree or find themselves in between, this is a solid view of the changes that can occur to we 'adults' along this journey. It was awesome of you to post this and I'm sure that it's going to help lots and lots of folks.

Thanks, SOV!!!
 
Very interesting to read... Especially since my adviser told me I should finish my pre-reqs in three years and apply. But I have time to take the upper level courses, because I came in with a semesters worth of credit hours. But your first point is telling me I should definitely focus on taking the upper levels next year (all I will have left to take for pre-reqs next year will be both my biochems, everything else will be towards finishing my degree).

But... yep, it kinda scares me.

But at the same time it's really good to know.
 
Some great points here. I too am a career changer, having majored in Psychology and Business Economics in my undergrad, only to then start working at a vet clinic and falling in love with it, to then start 2 years of pre-reqs for vet school, and finally just now finish my first round of applications this September, and now discover I HAVE TO MOVE ACROSS THE WORLD to start vet school at my dream city (Sydney, Australia) in just a few short months! I was really looking forward to my 6-8 months off....now if will be just barely two months where I will be looking for housing, selling off most possessions, and taking care of my sister and her newborn....sigh....It would be foolish to defer for a year right?!?
 
agree with everything!

especially the personality change. I feel like my soul has been sucked out of me lol im not the same person at all and i miss my old self
 
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Some great points here. I too am a career changer, having majored in Psychology and Business Economics in my undergrad, only to then start working at a vet clinic and falling in love with it, to then start 2 years of pre-reqs for vet school, and finally just now finish my first round of applications this September, and now discover I HAVE TO MOVE ACROSS THE WORLD to start vet school at my dream city (Sydney, Australia) in just a few short months! I was really looking forward to my 6-8 months off....now if will be just barely two months where I will be looking for housing, selling off most possessions, and taking care of my sister and her newborn....sigh....It would be foolish to defer for a year right?!?

IMHO It would be foolish NOT to defer. I wish I had.
 
I *think* I'm a year ahead of you ('13) and I can say it gets better. I agree that you bring up concerns, but I did everything you are talking about, plus dealt with my husband's income being cut 20%, him living 3.5 hours away, and only taking 5 pre-reqs (2 business, 1 nutrition, 1 genetics, 1 biochem) that I didn't have prior to vet school. I was a science major a decade ago. I would NOT delay another year. Our tuition is increasing >15% a year, with increases every semester. Our class sizes are getting larger, with less staffing. I am so grateful to be in a smaller class (I can't stand this large of a class...let alone another 25 students.)

I don't love vet school, but for me, taking another year wouldn't make me love it. I have learned some things; when you take time off, take it off. Whether that is an evening during the week, the extra day of that long weekend, or a party for a friend. Keep hobbies alive outside of vet school; it really helps to get away from the vet school insanity at times. Get to know the students in the classes ahead of you...they can warn you about bumps in the road. Take some time for wetlabs; application can make information relevant. Remember that how you do in vet school is more about how you process information, not about who you are (which can be really hard when you have 4 weeks of double and triple exams and surgeries and meetings and work.)

One thing upper classmen told me here that is proving true; students that hated first year find second year more relevant, while students who liked first year (particularly anatomy) find second year more difficult. I don't know if that holds true at other schools (but I also didn't know schools allowed students to test out of classes either!)

I would add; if you have been out of school for a while, there may be a generational or a socioeconomic gap between you and most of your peers, and there may be some level of culture shock ("seriously, your folks pay your house note, your tuition bill, your new car note, and your insurances and send you care packages? where do I sign up for that?!")

I was suprised at the change from being treated as a peer and collegue to a 'clueless student'...with the assumption that I was clueless and having to constantly prove that I do have some quality knowledge.

Overthinking things. Like having a professor ask 'how does PCR work' and launching into a detailed explanation when he was looking for 'DNA' as an answer.

Changes in teaching/testing. Powerpoint was just breaching the horizon when I was in college, and I went to a school with a max class size of 20. 80 folks in a passive 'sit and watch' format is torturous for me. And I am horrible at multiple choice. I generally score high 90's in anything that is short answer or essay...and high 70's low 80's in multiple choice. Labs that are really lectures in a different room frustrate me (I learn so much more from doing things.)

I am not saying the OP is wrong....it really is just differences in experience and opinion. I don't think anything can really prepare us for vet school. I think we all have to find our paths. I was far more miserable first year than this year. More of our gunners have given up the goal this year. I understand the pace, and know how to take time outs this year. I have a new hobby. I'm not saying it is all perfect; my husband was laid off recently, we are making hard decisions. I still have days or weeks where I wonder why I did this to myself. I feel much more like I have a holistic view this year than last year, though...and I am glad I didn't put it off.
 
^I second Sumstorms post. It really does get better. I would say that while we have a heavier course load this year than last, I'm enjoying it much more and am actually less stressed out. First year is a huge adjustment. I've felt, at least for me personally, that I have just gotten used to the stress level and it doesn't quite affect me the way that it used to. I've learned my own best study techniques, and I study for understanding and passing, and not necessarily to get an "A."

Hang in there- it will get better! :luck:
 
I was suprised at the change from being treated as a peer and collegue to a 'clueless student'...with the assumption that I was clueless and having to constantly prove that I do have some quality knowledge.
Can you elaborate on this? This is probably one of the more insulting things for me, unless I'm trying to exploit the situation.

Changes in teaching/testing. Powerpoint was just breaching the horizon when I was in college, and I went to a school with a max class size of 20. 80 folks in a passive 'sit and watch' format is torturous for me.

Are you saying that the classes are "Death by Power Point" where interaction is discouraged? We had over head projectors where the professor wrote on a scroll of acetate when I was in school. I didn't get Power Point classes on a regular basis until OCS. They can be ok as long as they are used properly. Unfortunately, most people treat them like lecture scripts rather than notes, or they think that you have to use every possible feature on a single slide. After 4.5 years of being an officer, I could give classes on proper "slideology".
 
IMHO It would be foolish NOT to defer. I wish I had.

From what I heard, and I'm sure it is different for each school, but you can't just defer to get more time off or to get "settled". Ive heard that it usually needs to be something major (a close death, pregnancy, etc). There are a lot of people who moved across the world this summer to start school overseas so that wouldn't be a valid reason to defer. But i guess you'd have to just ask the school you want to go to
 
it makes me feel a lot better when upper classmen chime in and share such encouraging words...b/c you all HAVE been there, felt this way, and have made it through it.

i'm currently in the "i hope i make it to second semester/second year" state.


thank you all for the encouraging words. even after the application process SDN is still a valuable support group. :)
 
it makes me feel a lot better when upper classmen chime in and share such encouraging words...b/c you all HAVE been there, felt this way, and have made it through it.

thank you all for the encouraging words. even after the application process SDN is still a valuable support group. :)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
This is awesome advice -- from everyone! I am a non-trad, working and preparing to go to vet school (hopefully). This definitely gives me a realistic perspective!
 
it makes me feel a lot better when upper classmen chime in and share such encouraging words...b/c you all HAVE been there, felt this way, and have made it through it.

i'm currently in the "i hope i make it to second semester/second year" state.


thank you all for the encouraging words. even after the application process SDN is still a valuable support group. :)

yes! thanks for responding and encouraging us!! its glad to know it gets better because i dont think i could make it through 2 yrs of what it is like this semester. Penn also started a new thing with more clinicals 2nd yr so yayy!!
 
Can you elaborate on this? This is probably one of the more insulting things for me, unless I'm trying to exploit the situation.
I can somewhat relate to what sumstorm is saying. It isn't a blatant "you're just a naive college student" attitude here (OkSU), but it is certainly a transition for anyone who has spent time out in "the real world". I think the profs are so used to their typical* student: (i.e. someone who may have shadowed a few hours here and there, worked as a "tech" which in many cases seems to mean glorified animal restrainer/table wiper, may or may not have completed a bachelors, often have mom/dad footing a mortgage, bills, etc) that non-trads become somewhat of an oversight. I'm sure it isn't intentional- at least so far it doesn't feel that way.

The most difficult part for me has been the culture and personality shock. I feel like I went from a productive member of society with a good job, knowledge, skills, experience- both work and life, and have digressed to "just a student" living on loans. I went from a familiar role where I excelled to struggling to feel like I'm good at anything. My brain is absolutely drained at the end of the day and it is much more exhausting than a 16hr graveyard ER shift. There are very few classmates with which I can have well-rounded conversations (ex: Dean mentioned Enron and Kenneth Lay in ethics class. It resulted in many a blank confused look). At times it is hard and I do sometimes wish for my old life back. Alas, I can't live my life in the past and the struggle absolutely merited given the goal ahead. That doesn't mean the thought doesn't occasionally wander into my mind. I didn't mean that to sound as whiny as it came out. Sorry. SOV is right though, the impact of the nontrad transition should not be underestimated.

*I'm generalizing for a point. It is not my intent to offend traditional students


Are you saying that the classes are "Death by Power Point" where interaction is discouraged? We had over head projectors where the professor wrote on a scroll of acetate when I was in school. I didn't get Power Point classes on a regular basis until OCS. They can be ok as long as they are used properly. Unfortunately, most people treat them like lecture scripts rather than notes, or they think that you have to use every possible feature on a single slide. After 4.5 years of being an officer, I could give classes on proper "slideology".

This is very true. With the exception physiology, vet school thus far is very much death by Power Point. While most of the instructors do not directly discourage interaction, they have such a massive amount of info to cover per lecture. Questions will ensure we get to self-teach the material when they run out of time. As far as lecture scripts vs. outlines, that seems to be prof dependent.

With regard to SO, I am currently living apart from mine. We have survived multiple deployments, so we decided initially to treat each semester like mini-deployments. Most of my classmates extend sympathy, but honestly it has been a good arrangement so far. I can be strung out from school, in the anatomy lab at crazy hours, studying all night, catnapping between classes, etc and it has no ill effect on our relationship. He isn't here to suffer from my snappy-ness when I'm stressed about a test, or feel neglected because I just don't have the energy/brain power for anything extra. I hear my classmates discussing how their SO is annoyed about their being in the lab "all the time" or that they never have time for the partner. It is one less stressor for both of us to avoid those troubles.

The separation has allowed us to prevent complete upheaval from our home environment, friends, family, work, etc. We talk nightly and when I go home and see him, it is true quality time together. It is an option I encourage non-trads to consider. However, this arrangement is certainly not for everyone. We have a very strong relationship, are extremely trusting of one another, and are both very independent people. Couples with jealously or distrust issues would likely not do well apart IMHO.
 
Happy Birthday SOV!

Thanks for your post!
 
Chin up, first years!

If I can do this, so can you. Promise. I also came in with a not very sciency background (English major!) but I'm still here. Not exactly ranked too highly in my class (perhaps the understatement of the year!), but that's okay too. Sometimes I just have to remind myself that I make up for it in other ways. :p Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and someone saw something good about me in that application...Sometimes a little ego boost can go a long way! :)

SOV, you obviously have a lot of strengths. It seems that everyone on here really likes you (as a person) and you're obviously brilliant! So, try to remind yourself of that every day. You may not have straight As right now, but when you're running a kick ass, highly profitable business with that undergrad degree/background of yours, all those A students will be uber jealous. Promise. :D I know it's hard when vet school isn't really allowing you to shine, but you'll make it through and it will.get.better.

The key to success (at least for me, and I think this may apply to some of you too): Less thinking, more doing.
This is hard for me, since I am (by nature) a "vent-er," but I have found that sometimes my venting just gets me more and more riled up...about stuff that I can't change. So, instead of expending energy getting all worked up about that stuff, I've been trying to just sit down and do it.
 
The key to success (at least for me, and I think this may apply to some of you too): Less thinking, more doing.
This is hard for me, since I am (by nature) a "vent-er," but I have found that sometimes my venting just gets me more and more riled up...about stuff that I can't change. So, instead of expending energy getting all worked up about that stuff, I've been trying to just sit down and do it.

This is good advice.

I am usually a person who lets go of things easily, hell, in my previous field if you didn't have a thick skin you couldn't survive. Somehow vet school has me expressing my "stew over it" genes. I definitely need to find an inhibitory pathway to move on otherwise I will drive myself crazy.

Speaking of that. I think I will just go back to studying (if only the person living next door to me would give up his American Idol ambitions -wow is he awful.)

Oh, by the way, Ben and Me, I blame you for all my problems. If you hadn't recommended a good RE agent I might not have managed to make it here. :D
 
There are very few classmates with which I can have well-rounded conversations (ex: Dean mentioned Enron and Kenneth Lay in ethics class. It resulted in many a blank confused look).
I already find myself in this situation. My oldest subordinate is 25. Most of my peers are at least 8 years younger than me. They regard me as a bit of a fossil. They don't even distrust the Russians! ;)

With regard to SO, I am currently living apart from mine. We have survived multiple deployments, so we decided initially to treat each semester like mini-deployments.

This is sort of something I've explored, though probably not for an entire semester. My wife is in pharmacy school and even though it's a tough program, I don't think she fully grasps the time commitment I'll have for school. I've tried to prepare her to not see me much during the week, which she's relatively used to. I've mentioned that some nights, my bed might consist of a woobie in the library or some other dark, carpeted floor.
 
Sorry to hear you're having so much difficulty SOV. I recall reading many of your posts before I got into AVC. I'm 38y old non-trad, the difference for me being that I have a solid science background. Although most of the histology and immunology is pretty new. Sounds like your program at Penn is a lot more difficult than AVC. I'm managing alright, just lost some motivation post-midterms. We don't have a biochem course. We have anatomy, physiology, behaviour, immunology, production systems, and histology. Not too bad.

Most of the time, I think I'm the only person taking notes in class. Just can't do the passive listening thing. I also did my BSc in the days of overhead scrolls and chalkboards. And handwritten assignments. But, I also did and MSc much more recently, making the format more manageable.

I'm now very glad that I had the entire summer off, no classes and unemployed. I still question my decision often, mainly due to the relentless financial concerns. I'm so tired of hearing how low vet salaries are!

I don't have to worry about personal relationship stuff too much. In a new one and we're long distance. I only let him call me once a week and visit once a month, and that works for me. School comes first. I've so far talked myself into getting some exercise, healthy food, and plenty of sleep. Really need some balance or your studies will suffer in the long run.

Are there tutors at your school? Some of my classmates have them and it seems to help.
 
Im just curious...as far as the powerpoint lectures...are people not taking notes because they are podcast? I left school for quite some time and when I returned, classes were all done on powerpoint, no one reads or even buys the book anymore and almost all of the classes are podcast. This is a far cry from what it was like when I started my undergrad and we were reading 300-400 page books front to back and taking notes like crazy. I still take crazy notes but when I look around no one else is writing a thing!!
 
Since I've started my new study habits with just listening in lecture to absorb more info and stop typing...notice how ALL of our class is taking notes and i can hear click clickitty click clikkk while im trying to think. ughh lol and our classes do have audio recordings...and handouts for 80% of them, but people still type for their life
 
haha...i guess you can call me old-fashioned because as every one else is typing I am still taking hand written notes. Something about it makes me absorb the material better
 
Im just curious...as far as the powerpoint lectures...are people not taking notes because they are podcast? I left school for quite some time and when I returned, classes were all done on powerpoint, no one reads or even buys the book anymore and almost all of the classes are podcast. This is a far cry from what it was like when I started my undergrad and we were reading 300-400 page books front to back and taking notes like crazy. I still take crazy notes but when I look around no one else is writing a thing!!

I don't take notes in class. If I do, I get so focused on what I am writing that I miss the next thing they are saying. So what I do is just listen during class, and then when I get home I listen to the recorded lecture and take really good notes. It's nice because I can rewind and listen to parts again if I miss them, and I already (hopefully!) understand the basics of the lecture so it's easier to take notes and understand at the same time.

Of course, this requires that I listen to a lot of recorded lectures every day.
 
I'm not a non-trad, but I am deathly afraid that if I do get accepted to vet school, that I'm going to have to change my note-taking habits around. I've been doing the same thing for four years: taking notes. If the prof uses powerpoints, I have those with me in class and take notes in the margin. If I forget my powerpoint, then I take more detailed notes and transfer them over. If I'm stuck on a concept, I'll look it up online or in a text book and write detailed notes about it.

I'm afraid that if I go to vet school, everyone will be using recorders or laptops or gosh knows what else and I just don't want to change!
 
I'm not a non-trad, but I am deathly afraid that if I do get accepted to vet school, that I'm going to have to change my note-taking habits around. I've been doing the same thing for four years: taking notes. If the prof uses powerpoints, I have those with me in class and take notes in the margin. If I forget my powerpoint, then I take more detailed notes and transfer them over. If I'm stuck on a concept, I'll look it up online or in a text book and write detailed notes about it.

I'm afraid that if I go to vet school, everyone will be using recorders or laptops or gosh knows what else and I just don't want to change!

its ok just do what works for you. some people here still take hand written notes and don't bring laptops.

however, if you start vet school and after 2-3 weeks find that u are behind in material because ur study habits take too much time away from you then u'll need to seriously consider changing ur habits. but unless that happens, stick with what works for you and forget about everyone else!
 
I am kind of in bunnity's camp, but I skip the attending the lecture part (just don't have the time). Much easier to take notes with a rewind button!

I started out using tablet to take notes on my tablet, because I like "handwriting" notes. Recently I came to realize that I can't stand studying off of the computer so went back to the dinosaur that I am and mainly use handwritten notes on paper. I destroy lots of trees but learn better that way.

In penance I planted a tree in my backyard:p.
 
Much easier to take notes with a rewind button!

I started out using tablet to take notes on my tablet, because I like "handwriting" notes. Recently I came to realize that I can't stand studying off of the computer so went back to the dinosaur that I am and mainly use handwritten notes on paper. I destroy lots of trees but learn better that way.

For those who learn better with handwritten notes, I'd like to put in my pitch for the Livescribe smartpens. The have mixed reviews on this forum, but it has been a lifesaver for me in phys and anatomy. To a certain extent it has changed the way I take notes. I can write the key points during lecture while mostly listening. I also don't have to stress with keeping up with the prof, nor do I need re-listen to a whole lecture when I have a question on a specific section. At home, I tap on the page and listen to wherever I drew a star or wrote "listen here" and fill in the blanks. Just a thought
 
For those who learn better with handwritten notes, I'd like to put in my pitch for the Livescribe smartpens. The have mixed reviews on this forum, but it has been a lifesaver for me in phys and anatomy. To a certain extent it has changed the way I take notes. I can write the key points during lecture while mostly listening. I also don't have to stress with keeping up with the prof, nor do I need re-listen to a whole lecture when I have a question on a specific section. At home, I tap on the page and listen to wherever I drew a star or wrote "listen here" and fill in the blanks. Just a thought


I heard about these not too long ago and was really impressed with the technology. It sounded like such a cool product. Its good to hear from someone who found it useful!
 
I don't take notes in class. If I do, I get so focused on what I am writing that I miss the next thing they are saying. So what I do is just listen during class, and then when I get home I listen to the recorded lecture and take really good notes. It's nice because I can rewind and listen to parts again if I miss them, and I already (hopefully!) understand the basics of the lecture so it's easier to take notes and understand at the same time.

This is along the same lines as what I have been doing, actually.
 
Can you elaborate on this? This is probably one of the more insulting things for me, unless I'm trying to exploit the situation.

I think it was expressed very well above. Also, I find it more common in certain segments than others. IE I experience it more in food animal courses than in zoo med. This year is better; I have found mentors that are interested in helping me excel and respect the knowledge and experience I came in with, I have learned to let some stuff roll off my back (particularly from some interns/residents), and I have learned how to communicate with some individuals in different ways. As an example of what I am referring to: I grew up on a family farm with a focus on sustainable agriculture, so I am very familiar with European pig rearing practices and with New Zealand grazing practices. When I first asked why we use sow stalls vs group housing, the response was incredibly negative with a personal attack tossed in. While I feel confident that I asked in a respectful manner, I realize that it was likely a sore spot for the instructor. Not long after that, he had the oppurtunity to travel to Europe and see group sow pen practices, and when I next saw him, we had a great discussion (and our school is now moving that way)...but the resident this year informed me that I must have misunderstood a behavior study on sow fighting in group pens that suggested a 50% reduction in fighting by introducing simple behavioral enrichment like mounting brushes on pen walls. With the first instructor I continued the conversation outside of class time with some privacy because I thought it was worth it (I was not the catalyst for change....just became someone who had some experience) but with the resident I won't even bother. So junk like that...being treated like you must be clueless (I also look like I am in my early to mid 20's...so most folks don't think I am a non-trad.)



Are you saying that the classes are "Death by Power Point" where interaction is discouraged? We had over head projectors where the professor wrote on a scroll of acetate when I was in school. I didn't get Power Point classes on a regular basis until OCS. They can be ok as long as they are used properly. Unfortunately, most people treat them like lecture scripts rather than notes, or they think that you have to use every possible feature on a single slide. After 4.5 years of being an officer, I could give classes on proper "slideology".

In my opinion, yes, classes are generally death by power point, and many of those power points are poorly designed (either massive amounts of info per slide, or lack of organization in the presentation, or confusing information in slides, or poorly laid out slides, or, my favorite, 110 slides for a 55 minutes lecture.) I wouldn't say that interaction is discouraged...and I even think some of our professors would prefer it, but asking questions leads to tangents...and classes are already packed with information. And most students don't want to listen to the tangent into someone's research or what was said at the latest conference but won't be on the test, etc. There is just so much information coming in, that you are trying to sort out what is important from what isn't already....

You should talk to my husband. He gets to deal with a lot of the DVM ruckus with me....and he is an ex-Army officer.

BTW-having said the above, we have some amazing professors that are incredibly organized, clear, concise, precise and creative. In all honesty, there are some professors where students have said "I have to skip her class today so I can study for the exam this afternoon; if I go I can't sneak any studying in because she is such a great lecturer!" I think here one of the challenges is that technically all classes are 'required' by the handbook, and some professors have been known to get testy on the tests if significant portions of the class skip.
 
Of course, this requires that I listen to a lot of recorded lectures every day.

While I occasionally do this, how do you have time for it every day? even if I speed up the lectures....that would easily be at least an additional 4 hours a day of lectures (on top of at least an 8 hour day, though some days are 10-12 hours.)
 
Im just curious...as far as the powerpoint lectures...are people not taking notes because they are podcast? I left school for quite some time and when I returned, classes were all done on powerpoint, no one reads or even buys the book anymore and almost all of the classes are podcast. This is a far cry from what it was like when I started my undergrad and we were reading 300-400 page books front to back and taking notes like crazy. I still take crazy notes but when I look around no one else is writing a thing!!

For me, it has nothing to do with podcasts. I take notes on the slides in OneNote using a tablet. I do not try to write everything, just stuff that helps clarify for me. I personally do not have time to read all of the 'required' reading, let alone anything extra. I use our notes from professors and text books as references to explain what was covered in class. I study off of my tablet and my iphone. The only thing I print are study charts. There is no way I could keep up even typing, let alone writing (and I type 110-120wpm) and once I get above 90wpm I am more or less taking dictation rather than understanding.
 
Chin up, first years!

If I can do this, so can you. Promise. I also came in with a not very sciency background (English major!) but I'm still here. Not exactly ranked too highly in my class (perhaps the understatement of the year!), but that's okay too. Sometimes I just have to remind myself that I make up for it in other ways. :p Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and someone saw something good about me in that application...Sometimes a little ego boost can go a long way! :)

The key to success (at least for me, and I think this may apply to some of you too): Less thinking, more doing.
This is hard for me, since I am (by nature) a "vent-er," but I have found that sometimes my venting just gets me more and more riled up...about stuff that I can't change. So, instead of expending energy getting all worked up about that stuff, I've been trying to just sit down and do it.


I think you're my long lost twin. I'm also a non-trad and, in what I like to call my "past life", I earned my degree in English. I'm also great at wasting precious time venting about things rather than sucking it up and doing them. AND I want so badly to go to Penn. You just gave me such great advice and a smidgen of hope!
 
While I occasionally do this, how do you have time for it every day? even if I speed up the lectures....that would easily be at least an additional 4 hours a day of lectures (on top of at least an 8 hour day, though some days are 10-12 hours.)

Yeah, it usually is 3-4 hours. It sucks, but it works.
 
Yeah, it usually is 3-4 hours. It sucks, but it works.

I'm glad it does...I really just can't imagine getting home at 7pm (Tuesday and Thursday) after being at school since 7:30am and listening to another 4 hours....but I am also better at learning from reading than listening....so it maybe be a different learning style issue; I'd still need to do several more hours of flashcards and mnemonics.

I really wish I didn't fear retaliation for skipping; listening to the vid on my computer at home would be so much more productive for me.
 
I've noticed a theme here - not enough time to accomplish all required tasks. Is this the reality or are there external conflicts? Seems to me that the school should be organized enough to not overload a student - i.e. having a couple hundred pages to read in one night between several classes. From listening to my wife's woes, there seems to be a major lack of coordination among professors. Is this the case with vet schools? Not that this would change my asperations in the least. I live with a lack of coordination on a daily basis. I'm amazed that we get anything done.
 
I've noticed a theme here - not enough time to accomplish all required tasks. Is this the reality or are there external conflicts? Seems to me that the school should be organized enough to not overload a student - i.e. having a couple hundred pages to read in one night between several classes. From listening to my wife's woes, there seems to be a major lack of coordination among professors. Is this the case with vet schools? Not that this would change my asperations in the least. I live with a lack of coordination on a daily basis. I'm amazed that we get anything done.

As with everything else, it depends. It depends on the school, the personality, and external conflicts. I think I have it pretty good. I'm highly organized, have very little external time conflicts (re: previous post), although I don't think I study near as much as my peers, so that frees up some time too. However (a plug for nontrads), I am skilled at quality study time vs quantity. I glance over my notes on weeknights and use weekends to gear down. Also, watch the extracurriculars- i.e. clubs, social functions. I dabble here and there but I am in school to learn about medicine. It doesn't do me a bit of good to fail out because I'm spending too much time on the fun stuff- and believe me, the extracurricular functions could easily suck all of your study time away.

OkSU feels organized IMHO. While there is a lot, it isn't unbearable. Yes, some profs are less organized than others but overall it doesn't feel that way. However, according to Facebook posts, I am far less strung out than some of my classmates. "OMG I'm overwhelmed" seems to be a frequent post topic. Maybe I'm just odd, but I still don't think its that bad :D
 
I've noticed a theme here - not enough time to accomplish all required tasks. Is this the reality or are there external conflicts? Seems to me that the school should be organized enough to not overload a student - i.e. having a couple hundred pages to read in one night between several classes. From listening to my wife's woes, there seems to be a major lack of coordination among professors. Is this the case with vet schools? Not that this would change my asperations in the least. I live with a lack of coordination on a daily basis. I'm amazed that we get anything done.

i should probably stop commenting on my school. i feel like we'll scare everyone away :laugh:
 
I've noticed a theme here - not enough time to accomplish all required tasks. Is this the reality or are there external conflicts? Seems to me that the school should be organized enough to not overload a student - i.e. having a couple hundred pages to read in one night between several classes. From listening to my wife's woes, there seems to be a major lack of coordination among professors. Is this the case with vet schools? Not that this would change my asperations in the least. I live with a lack of coordination on a daily basis. I'm amazed that we get anything done.

There's a reason they say it's like "trying to drink from a fire hydrant"

But, while it's overwhelming at first, you get used to it. :) I think that's the hardest part of first year -- getting used to how different vet school is from undergrad: how much time you're in class, adapting to a powerpoint-driven lecture (I went to a small, liberal arts college where all my classes were interactive), and how differently you need to study.

Once you get used to that, it gets a lot more manageable. I promise. It just takes about a semester for most folks. :) I've noticed that a lot more members of my class are branching out this year and trying out non-academic activities, which I think is a good/healthy decision! First year people were a lot more cautious, which I think makes sense.
 
As with everything else, it depends. It depends on the school, the personality, and external conflicts.

At least in our class lack of organization amongst professor, staff, etc is a common complaint. Classes have been shifted around from year to year without clearly thinking out the process (ie we now have surgery class at the same semester as our PE skills class....in surgery we need to place catheters, draw blood, intubate, etc...yet that is the last lab for PE skills, which we have next week at the end of the semester after six surgeries.) Another complaint is that professors from different classes may lecture on the same topic (ie inhalation anesthetics is covered in anesthesia and pharm) but not 'agree' among each other. Surgery class, while great to have early, is chaos. Half of us have it Tuesday and half have it Friday, and it isn't balanced...so if you have Tuesday it is always Tuesday. Some of us feel having weeks that are quiz-surgery-exam-exam-nothing is worse than having quize-nothing-exam-exam-surgery while others feel losing their Friday night to animal care is problematic. We can vote to change exams, but often there are 2-3 exams a week, so moving one just creates complications.

Also, watch the extracurriculars- i.e. clubs, social functions. I dabble here and there but I am in school to learn about medicine. It doesn't do me a bit of good to fail out because I'm spending too much time on the fun stuff- and believe me, the extracurricular functions could easily suck all of your study time away.

And I differ on this. I too am here to learn medicine, and clubs help me learn medicine via wetlabs, case studies, journal reviews, etc. I am also learning about things like finding the first job out of school, residencies, dealing with debt, etc. I do admit that I don't participate in most of the 'go to the bar to celebrate the end of a hard week' gatherings, but while clubs can suck time away, they can also give kinesthetic learners a greater chance of retaining information and can be very helpful (according to a 4th year) in preparing for clinicals.

here I honestly don't know anyone who does all the required reading. most of us probably do 50-70%. There are times when it is truely overwhelming, for example, having a quiz on Monday, surgery dog arrival/exam/care on Monday, surgery exam Tuesday, followed by afternoon surgery with poor recovery so we don't get out till after 10pm, followed by an exam on Wednesday along with care of surgery animal till it leaves, an exam on Thursday with classes extending to 6:00pm, and having to head to a cattle barn to learn large animal skills on Friday. Add in ~a couple hundred of pages a night on that schedule....and something gives.

Having said that, it is survivable.
 
As another non-tranditional student with a corporate america background, I was relieved to read your post SOV. I feel exactly the same, specifically in the personaility change part... I almost feel like a different person than I was 6 months ago... I also worry that my "previous personality" would make a much better vet than this new one.

...and Sunstorm I was suprised by the "gap" as well. I regularly worked with kids that are the age of my classmates in the "real world" but that difinitely didn't prepare me for how different I am in this environment.

Well back to nueroanatomy studying.
 
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