2012 APMLE Part 2

82%

Hopefully we can get people to post how each of the schools did. I would be interested to see the pass rates. Again, I hate to beat a dead horse, but it's silly that a school by school list isn't released yearly.

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dtrack22 said:

http://www.dmu.edu/2012/02/exceptional-board-results-for-cpms-students/

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That's one down. Any other brave souls out there want to share results with us?

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Ny 89%

2013 will be the first year where a "true shortage" is expected. By "true shortage" I mean the number of estimated graduates will (for the first time in recent years) be higher than the current number of seats. Now, that assumes 2 things. First, that no new seats will be added. We know that isn't likely to be true as 25 new seats were added this year and around 10 are in the final stages of approval, expected to be ready to go next year. Second, that the estimated attrition due to part II is correct. And who knows what the pass rate will be.

What you have to remember is that every student has 2 opportunities to pass part II now that the exam is administered in Jan and again in March along with the match being pushed back to April. I personally don't expect everyone who failed the first time to do so again, meaning the 82% is a little deceiving.

dtrack22 said:

2013 will be the first year where a "true shortage" is expected. By "true shortage" I mean the number of estimated graduates will (for the first time in recent years) be higher than the current number of seats. Now, that assumes 2 things. First, that no new seats will be added. We know that isn't likely to be true as 25 new seats were added this year and around 10 are in the final stages of approval, expected to be ready to go next year. Second, that the estimated attrition due to part II is correct. And who knows what the pass rate will be.

What you have to remember is that every student has 2 opportunities to pass part II now that the exam is administered in Jan and again in March along with the match being pushed back to April. I personally don't expect everyone who failed the first time to do so again, meaning the 82% is a little deceiving.

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Please post whether the board results were presented in writing or send the link. For most second administrations count on a pass rate at or below 50%

dtrack22 said:

2013 will be the first year where a "true shortage" is expected. By "true shortage" I mean the number of estimated graduates will (for the first time in recent years) be higher than the current number of seats.

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The other interesting aspect is that while the class of 2013 is larger than 2012, the class of 2014 is expected to graduate substantially fewer that the class of 2013.

2012 < 2013 > 2014

That kind of fluctuation in graduates from year to year is part of the problem that residency programs have faced in the past. Let's say 30 spots are created for the class of 2013 but the class of 2014 graduate 30 fewer students the next year and all those newly created spots go unfilled. If that happens a number of times, residency programs contract their positions again.

I don't know WHY there is substantial fluctuation in national class size from year to year, but it seems like that issue should be addressed along with finding quality applicants, curriculum and such.

I think with the new CPME guidelines, regarding the elimination of the 10% cushion on top of the caps, we'll see a little less fluctuation. But ultimately until the applicant pool is larger with generally more qualified students, I think the ups and downs of attrition will continue.

I have no idea how the class of 2013 and 2014 got so out of whack. I'm not complaining...

thinkmanthink said:

Ocpm averages 80 or so from what i hear. But how can one school bring the national average down so low if almost every other school is significantly greater than the national average. Granted ocpm has a larger class size...but that much of an impact?

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DMU, Barry, AZPOD, and Cali make up half of the schools but only about 25% of the students who took the exam. The schools with 100+ class sizes can have a very big impact on national averages

DMU

Another exceptional year for board exams: [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The class of 2012 sat for Part II of the American Podiatric Medical Licensing Exam in January. The first time pass rate for CPMS was 93% compared to a national first time pass rate of 82%. The Part I first time pass rate reported earlier this year for the class of 2013 was 98% compared to a national first time pass rate of 85%. It was another excellent year for board results for CPMS. Congratulations to the students, faculty and staff for a job well done. .
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that1guyfromFL said:

. Let's say 30 spots are created for the class of 2013 but the class of 2014 graduate 30 fewer students the next year and all those newly created spots go unfilled. If that happens a number of times, residency programs contract their positions again.

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This is an excellent point. I've always wondered at what point do they slow down the residency genesis to prevent a situation like this from happening....again? Or maybe attrition goes down and it's not an issue?

Ok so if everyone on here is correct...
DMU = 93 %
Barry = 90 %
NY = 88 %
OCPM = around 80 % due to large class size

Who are the duds? I wonder what Temple's is. When I emailed their admissions office to ask a while back, I recieved no answer.

Doc Foot said:

Ok so if everyone on here is correct...
DMU = 93 %
Barry = 90 %
NY = 88 %
OCPM = around 80 % due to large class size

Who are the duds? I wonder what Temple's is. When I emailed their admissions office to ask a while back, I recieved no answer.

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Not sure I get 80% due to a large class size. Are you saying schools with larger classes should have lower pass rates? With that pass rate I would say they need to be more selection, possibly consider taking in less students and focus on quality. But that would affect the bottom line.

Agree, doesn't add up.

Hmm.... still need the rest of the schools numbers. I bet the schools with lower pass rates keep it a secret and would rather not tell anyone

To your question. 530 or so take Part II, 82% pass, maybe 50% will pass second administration. No idea how many former grads are in the pipeline that have passed part II. Unless there was a non-academic reason for not matching in 2011 or have a connection, matching is a long shot. Programs are not going to take a chance on candidates with a history of a weak academic record or failing boards. My opinion.

Ankle Breaker said:

These numbers won't add up. Supposedly SCPM's part II pass rate was 88%. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

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The numbers will never add up because nobody knows how many students who failed last year are retaking this year, let alone what that group's pass rate is. About 70 of the CASPR applicants this year were from years past, re-applies, whatever you'd like to call them. There is a good chance a chunk of those individuals are included in the national %

Doc Foot will eventually get off the "getting all the boards scores from everyone" kick. Although, it should be unnecessary with the schools who are now on board with releasing scores.

dtrack22 said:

The numbers will never add up because nobody knows how many students who failed last year are retaking this year, let alone what that group's pass rate is. About 70 of the CASPR applicants this year were from years past, re-applies, whatever you'd like to call them. There is a good chance a chunk of those individuals are included in the national %

Doc Foot will eventually get off the "getting all the boards scores from everyone" kick. Although, it should be unnecessary with the schools who are now on board with releasing scores.

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Actually, they are not included in the national % if you are referring to first time pass rate. I believe those are the numbers people are tossing around.

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Barry's part 2 pass rate was 68%...not 90%

footie24 said:

Barry's part 2 pass rate was 68%...not 90%

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I checked again and edited my post. The figure I quoted was actually from the class of 2011.

I don't think the 2012 pass rate comes out until after the retake in March.

Kidsfeet said:

Whoa, is that accurate??

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very accurate

That does seem low... We were told by our dean that the part 2 scores were lower than expected at most of the schools this year...

footie24 said:

Barry's part 2 pass rate was 68%...not 90%

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Kidsfeet said:

Whoa, is that accurate??

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Yes, this is accurate. 16 of 48 students failed. It's embarassing, but it was somewhat expected and I remember telling students from other schools during my clerkships last year that Barry would have awful part II first time pass scores, despite a good (90%) part I first time pass rate. As you all know part II was moved earlier this year to January so that people had a couple tries of taking it before the match. This screwed Barry up because we take all our board review courses and other basic courses such as Sports Medicine, Law, Community Health, etc during the first several months starting in January. So this was the first year Barry students had to take part II boards without these classes.

We were told in advance to study these on our own but many found it difficult studying for these new classes as well as reviewing for boards without actual lectures and while doing externships at the same time. I had December as an off month and learned them during that time but others weren't so lucky.

It is a very difficult situation for those who didn't pass. I know of several who failed who are bright people who studied their ass off. Many of them had residencies already in the bag and if they don't pass this second time then they can't start residency. Right now we are taking these classes and it seems pretty much like a waste to those of us who already passed. So the 2nd time pass rate for part II should hopefully be much higher from our class.

spo01 said:

Yes, this is accurate. 16 of 48 students failed. It's embarassing, but it was somewhat expected and I remember telling students from other schools during my clerkships last year that Barry would have awful part II first time pass scores, despite a good (90%) part I first time pass rate. As you all know part II was moved earlier this year to January so that people had a couple tries of taking it before the match. This screwed Barry up because we take all our board review courses and other basic courses such as Sports Medicine, Law, Community Health, etc during the first several months starting in January. So this was the first year Barry students had to take part II boards without these classes.

We were told in advance to study these on our own but many found it difficult studying for these new classes as well as reviewing for boards without actual lectures and while doing externships at the same time. I had December as an off month and learned them during that time but others weren't so lucky.

It is a very difficult situation for those who didn't pass. I know of several who failed who are bright people who studied their ass off. Many of them had residencies already in the bag and if they don't pass this second time then they can't start residency. Right now we are taking these classes and it seems pretty much like a waste to those of us who already passed. So the 2nd time pass rate for part II should hopefully be much higher from our class.

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You guys take classes late into your 4th year?

AttackNME said:

You guys take classes late into your 4th year?

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Yes, from January to April of this year we take: Ortho Seminar, Pod. Med. Seminar, Surgical Seminar, Sports Medicine, Risk Management, Practice Management, Community and Minority Med, and have our senior research project as well as clinical rotations at various sites. We graduate April 28th.
However, because of the earlier movement of the boards test this will change for future classes.

spo01 said:

Yes, from January to April of this year we take: Ortho Seminar, Pod. Med. Seminar, Surgical Seminar, Sports Medicine, Risk Management, Practice Management, Community and Minority Med, and have our senior research project as well as clinical rotations at various sites. We graduate April 28th.
However, because of the earlier movement of the boards test this will change for future classes.

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U guys take classes in 3rd year? At Temple we get all classes out of the way by dec halfway thru 3rd year

Message from Dean at Scholl 1 week ago.

Dear Class of 2012,

Many of you have asked about the pass rate for the January APMLE Part II exam. The national pass rate is 82% and the SCPM pass rate is 88%. Congratulations to everyone who passed!

Which brings the grand total to....

DMU = 93 %
Barry = 68%
NY = 88 %
OCPM = around 80 % due to large class size
SCPM = 88%

Still waiting on Arizona, Temple, and 2 Cali Schools.

JackedUp said:

Still waiting on Arizona, Temple, and 2 Cali Schools.

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You can wait all you want on Western, but the first class has not taken Part 2 yet!

As a side note, I can't imagine having to take classes in your 3rd and 4th years. Makes me glad we pack it all into the first 2 years!

darazon said:

You can wait all you want on Western, but the first class has not taken Part 2 yet!

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Oh thats right, my fault. I stand corrected.

Wow, it's been almost 8 months or so since I have been on SDN. Externships, moving around the country, and clinics took up my free SDN'ing time.

The earlier Test date did not coincide with the curriculum that Barry had set-up. The NBPME or whoever was in charge of changing the date did not give Barry a year to change the curriculum to provide the classes before we took the exam. Therefore the pass rate was low. It would be interesting to know how many questions were missed from the classes we did not take. Taking these classes before the boards could have given the student at least 8-10 more questions right and possibly 10 more people passing because of this.
I was fortunate to pass but must be honest that I was guessing on the topics from the classes I hadn't taken yet and must have been lucky.
If a pre-pod is concerned about going to Barry because of this horrible pass rate, don't be alarmed. The curriculum was changed for the current 3rd year class (They are very busy this semester). The curriculum is currently being tweaked by the new dean and great things are happening here. The class of 2012 is the guinea pig year.

Since this is the first year where you have to pass boards part 2 before the match, I bet there will not be too large of a shortage. Can't wait till match day.

Kidsfeet said:

Wow that seems like a MAJOR miscalculation on Barry's part.

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The change to having an offering of Part 2 in January and a second offering in March, giving student 2 chances to pass before match day, was made by the NBPME with the knowledge that some 4th year students would be put in a difficult position for the January exam this cycle.


As Paulywog already mentioned, the curriculum changes have already been made for the class of 2013.

that1guyfromFL said:

The change to having an offering of Part 2 in January and a second offering in March, giving student 2 chances to pass before match day, was made by the NBPME with the knowledge that some 4th year students would be put in a difficult position for the January exam this cycle.


As Paulywog already mentioned, the curriculum changes have already been made for the class of 2013.

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Yeah, without an emergency curriculum change (and I don't even know what you'd do other than maybe some last minute study on your own material for those particular topics?) there isn't a whole lot that could have been done.

However, you get 2 chances before the match (april) so those students who failed due to the late coursework should be fine and cannot be punished by programs for failing the first time as none of the directors will have access to that info.

dtrack22 said:

Yeah, without an emergency curriculum change (and I don't even know what you'd do other than maybe some last minute study on your own material for those particular topics?) there isn't a whole lot that could have been done.

However, you get 2 chances before the match (april) so those students who failed due to the late coursework should be fine and cannot be punished by programs for failing the first time as none of the directors will have access to that info.

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That's why Barry wanted to post pass rates after the retake in March. This is a better evaluation of the school since they will have taken all of the classes by then.
It wasn't a miscalculation. The board date changed after the school year began. Our dean was pushing to wait a year for the change due to this problem.
After talking to many 4th years throughout the country, I think Barry graduates the earliest. Our graduation date is April 29th. What is every other school's graduation dates? Just a few months away....

AZPod is graduating June 1st.

Des Moines graduating May 26th. We don't have any classes in Iowa during our 4th year, just rotations that we schedule plus a 3 month core.

Temple: 87%

13/98 are retaking.

From what i've heard CSPM for the class of 2012 failure rate was 10-15/34.

This last semester at Barry we do 2 days/week in a clinic or other rotation. 2 days/week of class (classes to prepare us for boards that we already took?!?! This is has already changed for next year's class where they will just be in the clinics and hospitals). Fridays are off for us to prepare for residency and write our senior paper/research project.