Columbia or Penn.....AWWW

For some reason I think Upenn would provide better clinical. And columbia students are forced to specialized because they have no choice due to lack of clinical training while at dental school. Then again, I could be wrong.

Too much responsibility!... can't think. I can't answer right now, even though I'm deciding about Columbia myself, and didn't apply to UPenn. I'll think about it and maybe post a vote later.

penn! i didn't interview at columbia but i'm sure cost of living will be less. penn is a great all around school, i can't imagine any place better. tuition sucks though.

columbia....because i'm going there. hahahah

U penn of course

Originally posted by bingpredent
For some reason I think Upenn would provide better clinical. And columbia students are forced to specialized because they have no choice due to lack of clinical training while at dental school. Then again, I could be wrong.

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some of my classmates aren't planning to specialize...and everyday i'm leaning more towards being a GP too. It all depends on what you want to be/do...the options are wide open... both schools will train you to do that.

definately go where you think you'll fit in the most and where you'll be happiest.

hey fred liu,

are you for real? you're gonna base one of the most important decisions of your life on the opinions of people you dont even know? your sentiment towards those who post on this forum is kind but perhaps a little misguided...where you go is a personal decision and needs to come from within. all i will say is part of being a professional is being able to assess a situation and make a decision based on that assessment. just my two cents.

how come no neither?
or all of the above?

FREDDY

COLUMBIA.

My vote is for you to go to Upenn.........we already have enough guys here at columbia......ehhe jk

I dont know much about penn, but both schools are equally as good at pushing out specialists. There are gonna be cliques no matter where you go....just gotta live with it.

Fred....Even if the two schools are 'on par' with each other, you have to realize that they are quite different. Dino is right, you shouldn't base your final opinion on what the posters on these forums have to say. You really had better talk to to those that attended Columbia, and those that attended Penn. Yeah yeah, both are Ivy, both have great specialty placement, etc., etc., but you have got to find out what suits you best. For example, a starting point is to consider that the class size at Penn is much larger than Columbia. That's a simple point, but an important one that in of itself lends to a number of differences. Your comparison of the Lord of the Rings just doesn't measure up in this sense. It's an important decision and shouldn't be subject to tossup.

Originally posted by bcDDS
It's an important decision and shouldn't be subject to tossup.

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In the case of these two schools it is a toss up. But I do agree that Fred should make this decision on his own, hell, I would if I was in that position.

freedyx3, how do you know you want to specialize?

Hey, i like upenn because it seems like a good school without having to live in NYC for 4 years..... its still ivy league and you get to eat cheesteaks 24/7..... you should take this post as seriously as you would take Madonna's opinion on modern medicine.

Fred,

I graduated from Columbia, and I have buddies that graduated from Penn, spent time in my GPR with students from Penn, etc. From all that I have gathered over the years, they are not the same. Different strokes for different folks. It SEEMS like you can't go wrong choosing either school, but you could easily hate one school and like the other one. I have read so many things on these boards about Columbia that are either exaggerated, or just simply rumors. Problem is that there are those who read it and eat it up like it's dessert from some five star restaurant. Hear what everybody has to say, but choose carefully who you decide to listen to.

Originally posted by bingpredent
For some reason I think Upenn would provide better clinical. And columbia students are forced to specialized because they have no choice due to lack of clinical training while at dental school. Then again, I could be wrong.

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have you seen some of the PFM/Crown preps that they teach at upenn?...one of our pre-clinic profs (recent penn grad) demonstrated one and I showed it to like 5 other profs and they said if i did that on the boards, it'd be an automatic failure plus you'd have to do endo on it b/c of the over-reduction. can you say pulpal exposure?

Originally posted by cusp of carabelli
have you seen some of the PFM/Crown preps that they teach at upenn?...one of our pre-clinic profs (recent penn grad) demonstrated one and I showed it to like 5 other profs and they said if i did that on the boards, it'd be an automatic failure plus you'd have to do endo on it b/c of the over-reduction. can you say pulpal exposure?

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I'm only re-stating what my dentist told me that columbia put a strong emphasis on research and isn't as heavily clinical as some other school and students are forced/pushed to specialize (GPR or other post-grad programs). Dont' really know whether it's true or not, but apparently, few already disagree.

Sounds like that Upenn grad don't really know his stuff, hope not all of upenn grads are like that.

And I've never heard of "pulpal exposure", if i do, I wouldn't have "Class 2008" as my subscript now, would I? If this is the new term you just learned, you need not show it off to us pre-dents.

Originally posted by bingpredent
I'm only re-stating what my dentist told me that columbia put a strong emphasis on research and isn't as heavily clinical as some other school and students are forced/pushed to specialize (GPR or other post-grad programs). Dont' really know whether it's true or not, but apparently, few already disagree.

Sounds like that Upenn grad don't really know his stuff, hope all the Upenn grads are not like that.


And I've never heard of "pulpal exposure", if i do, I wouldn't have "Class 2008" as my subscript now, would I? If this is the new term you just learned, you need not show it off to us pre-dents.

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funny cause Columbia has never made me do any research...and the research I did this summer I volunteerly did on my own... and there's nothing that states I have to do any research at all... however the opportunites are here for those that are interested.

I doubt that "pulpal exposure" is a new term to Cusp considering he's a 2nd yr... it's probably one of the FIRST things you'll learn as a dent student... it means that you EXPOSED the PULP during your prep... which basically means you killed the tooth.

Thanks, stargirl, for clarifying. See? learn new stuff everyday
And can't wait till next fall when I'm starting to learn these new terms....The hell, might just buy a dental book and look at it this winter.

Originally posted by bingpredent
Thanks, stargirl, for clarifying. See? learn new stuff everyday
And can't wait till next fall when I'm starting to learn these new terms....The hell, might just buy a dental book and look at it this winter.

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Stargirl is SUCH a nerd!!!!!!!!

Freedy: Count one write-in for SUNY Buffalo. Why did this school not make your cut? Are you a NY resident?

hi freedy...if i were you i would do the poll for fun just to see what other people's opinions are...but to be at peace with your decision for the next four years you will have to know that it's 100% YOUR decision and not solely based on a vote. (i mean that sounded like what you were going to do, maybe you were just kidding about going with the poll you seem pretty set on columbia and upenn but if i were in your shoes i don't think i would rule out buffalo...i am trying to decide between two schools right now, and just about every dentist i know has told me to go with the cheaper option....one dentist on this forum pointed out to me that if i went with the state school i would save 200,000 in the end which could be put towards paying for a specialty program or a practice buy-in.

GO PENN!!! you can do it

Freedy: What kind of research are you interested in? Do you intend to pursue a career in Academic Dentistry?

If (1) you are more interested in dental research than clinical dentistry, then I completely support your decision to select an Ivy league school with a top reputation for medical/ basic scientific research (eg, Harvard, Columbia, Penn) despite the cost deterrent. The academic community is highly politicized and you will benefit greatly by serving under big-name scientists at a prestigious research-oriented institution. However, if (2) you would like to do some research during dental school, but are ultimately seeking private practice, then you should reconsider before eliminating Buffalo.

It's not a bad thing to be at a school where the research initiatives are a little more modest and the faculty-student relations are a bit less aristocratic - a school where professors have more time to teach and entertain suggestions of the aspiring understudy (ie, DDS students) - where you will be able to take more responsibility for your projects. Although I agree that research is not a primary emphasis at SUNY Buffalo, Buffalo offers ample opportunity for student-directed research as opposed to the purely faculty-directed student projects that you may find elsewhere. I don't know much about either of the schools that you've mentioned, but I'll say that my personal interests are consistent with (2) and that I applied only to public universities, including Buffalo, which is a great school and I would choose over any private alternative.

If you have issues with the Buffalo area, I will not be able to address them. I've spent my whole life in Upstate NY and, in my opinion, doing donuts in the snow in a Jeep Cherokee is about as good as it gets.

Sam Spade

Hey freddy,

Sam Spade is right on about my school and our research opportunities and he makes some very good points about finances as well. And no matter where you go, you will be so busy in dental school that which city you are in isn't as big a deal as you might think, as long as you have some cool friends in dental school to enjoy your time with.

I'm not hurt if you don't choose my school or feel it's not a good fit for you (although I have been very happy with UB). However, you also got into UConn. UConn has a big focus on dental research and has lots of active research going on. And if you ultimately want to specialize, they have good placement rates for that too, especially with their P/F system and consistently fantastic board scores. And it's a state school, so it'll still be cheaper than Penn or Columbia. Yeah, it's in Farmington, but like I said, you will meet people who make dental school fun. Every UConn dental student I've met through ASDA & research have always been real awesome and happy with their school.

Disclaimer: If your family is loaded and can foot the bill for a private school without thinking twice, then ignore everything Sam & I have posted and pick the Ivy $chool that suits you.

However, if you are borrowing your way through school, go where the debt will be less. This is the advice I was given by many dentists (mostly recent graduates) when I debated between UB & Penn. Even a Penn grad (my first orthodontist) told me to go to UB b/c of the debt factor. Now, as a senior dental student, I am very glad I listened to them. They really did know what they were talking about. Not having the extra debt from attending Penn has made my decision to specialize easier, b/c I am free to apply to any school I want and not have to agonize over going into even more debt with specialty training.

Unless you specialize in Pedo or a 4-year Oral Surgery program, chances are you will be borrowing more money if you go through with specialty plans. All the other specialty programs now have to charge students tuition to attend with GME funding gone. Even many 6-year Oral Surgery programs charge for the 2 years of med school you have to attend. Attending somewhere like NYU or Pacific for 2 years of Ortho will easily run you $100,000 in tuition (for two years) and that's not even including what you'll need to borrow to live in NYC or SF.

For all the pre-dents: No matter where you go, you can always enter school with aims to specialize. However, you have to remember you are going to dental school and will graduate as a dentist. Something can happen on the path to specializing and you might end up working as a general dentist for a while before getting to specialty school (family, relationships, $$$, applications, grades, anything). You have to enter dental school knowing that you can be happy working as a general dentist or else you will be miserable through your four years in dental school and in your career as a dentist.

Originally posted by freedyx3
Also from people I've talked to at UB it seemed that most of the grad stay in the buffalo area to work

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Are we talking about the same Buffalo here? Most of my classmates can't hardly wait for May 9, 2004 to roll around so we can get the hell outta this friggin' place!

That's probably true of all dental schools... Four years in the same place will do that to a lot of people.

Remember that at least 1/3 of UB's students are from the NYC area and have plenty of "connections" with other places on the East Coast. Shoot, I'm heading back to Long Island where I belong-- I ain't sticking around unless someone offers me a million bucks.

Good luck whichever school you choose-- Go where you will be happy and that's that!

My vote goes to Columbia. If you are paying for it, I say grow a pair and move to New York. Philadelphia is great and all, well some parts? but out of the two, I think you have to go with Columbia purely based on the city?both are good schools?don?t get me wrong.. .but Philadelphia?no thank you.

If you want to do research and specialize, go to Harvard.

Originally posted by Zurich5
My vote goes to Columbia. If you are paying for it, I say grow a pair and move to New York. Philadelphia is great and all, well some parts? but out of the two, I think you have to go with Columbia purely based on the city?both are good schools?don?t get me wrong.. .but Philadelphia?no thank you.

If you want to do research and specialize, go to Harvard.

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yup, hehe on tuesday my friend and i walked all over NYC and it was soooooo wonderful... it's so great, there's so much to see and do... we were going to go see a broadway show but we just couldn't fit it in...

Originally posted by Doggie
Stargirl is SUCH a nerd!!!!!!!!

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hehehe i read somewhere that you're at the top of your class

okie back to studying! last exam of the semester! yay!

When is the poll closed?

fred,
Tell me you're not really basing your decision on this pole?

Fred,

Instead of relying on us, why dont you go to NYC and Philly for a week each and see which city you like better (since the schools are equal)??? Good idea??

You're making a 400k decision but can't put up a few bucks to ensure that you are making the correct 400k decision? Please.

Honestly, dude, you gotta make your own decision. Get off this forum and take the advice of Dentaldream - visit each school/ city once more - a decision should then come easily.

I would go for COLUMBIA, why? - Because its the better school, thats WHY!

freedyx3, seriously, go where it's cheapest. many experienced dentists will tell you it doesn't matter where you go to dental school. it's what you do with the degree that counts. if you are considering specializing, just do well in dental school, and be in the top five. i think columbia and penn are the most expensive schools you've applied to. isn't tufts cheaper? if so, then i'd go there.

So where are u going friend? Columbia or Penn or Tufts?
All the best...Merry Christmas and happy Holidays

I just realize that this poll is swinging back and forth everyday.
One day is columbia ahead by 1 vote,
the next day is Penn.
I wonder who will "win" =)

Originally posted by freedyx3
Zurich,

It was either doing it this way or flipping a coin (Best out of 3). What would you do?

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I would go to the cheapest school, but that's just me. Good luck.

UPENN. Cost of living in Philly is a lot cheaper than New York.

freedyx3

based on what you read so what,
are u able to make a decision yet?
please share your decision making with us too.