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Throw away account here but I've wondered this for awhile but been scared to ask.

Can I do a 1 year internship then work as a doc for awhile (I know my options here are limited) then match into family or something similar 5 or 10 years later if it ends up being necessary? Or basically any type of additional training down the line to be able to take insurance and be board certified.

What if I do a 3 year residency and drop after a year would it be possible to go back to a residency 5 or 10 years later if it is necessary?

Also is there anything clinical you can do without even a 1 year residency? Like any kind of cash only practice preferably that you couldn't do straight out of undergrad?

Is this the same for both American DO and American MD?
 

OnePunchBiopsy

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I could be wrong, but I've never heard of this happening in modern times.

-Dropping after 1 year of residency would be a major red flag for future employment.
-ALL forms of primary care (Pediatrics, FMED, IMED) require completion of residency and passing their boards
-Your odds of becoming an employed physician at a major medical institution would by abysmal without being boarded in something
- Group practices would pass you up over applicants with board certification
 

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One of our lecturers 2nd year did an internship year then went into general practice in a rural community (this was in the early '80s where although uncommon it wasn't unheard of to still do that). He told us it was one of the dumbest things he'd ever done in his life as he was grossly under trained and unprepared. He went back and finished residency after 1-2 years.
 
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mcloaf

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Throw away account here but I've wondered this for awhile but been scared to ask.

Can I do a 1 year internship then work as a doc for awhile (I know my options here are limited) then match into family or something similar 5 or 10 years later if it ends up being necessary? Or basically any type of additional training down the line to be able to take insurance and be board certified.

What if I do a 3 year residency and drop after a year would it be possible to go back to a residency 5 or 10 years later if it is necessary?

Also is there anything clinical you can do without even a 1 year residency? Like any kind of cash only practice preferably that you couldn't do straight out of undergrad?

Is this the same for both American DO and American MD?
With only an intern year of training you'd pretty much have to find a job where your clinical responsibilities were largely ordering electrolytes and writing discharge summaries.
 
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schmoob

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Throw away account here but I've wondered this for awhile but been scared to ask.

Can I do a 1 year internship then work as a doc for awhile (I know my options here are limited) then match into family or something similar 5 or 10 years later if it ends up being necessary? Or basically any type of additional training down the line to be able to take insurance and be board certified.

What if I do a 3 year residency and drop after a year would it be possible to go back to a residency 5 or 10 years later if it is necessary?

Also is there anything clinical you can do without even a 1 year residency? Like any kind of cash only practice preferably that you couldn't do straight out of undergrad?

Is this the same for both American DO and American MD?
Yes you can do that.
In the military.
 

Warderino92

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As the previous poster said, this will never fly in the civilian world because you would be a walking malpractice magnet unless you did something extremely low paying like wellness checks for insurance companies. The military would afford you the option to do a 1 year internship and do a GMO tour for your commitment length without additional training before going back to do a complete residency. Note that this would add extra commitment time however if you do a military residency afterwards.
 
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You will be able to work for:

Indian Health Service...

County Health department...
 

schmoob

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As the previous poster said, this will never fly in the civilian world because you would be a walking malpractice magnet unless you did something extremely low paying like wellness checks for insurance companies. The military would afford you the option to do a 1 year internship and do a GMO tour for your commitment length without additional training before going back to do a complete residency. Note that this would add extra commitment time however if you do a military residency afterwards.
To add on to this, GMO tour is actually a great option if you want to be competitive for a more selective residency. But again, this adds to your time. It also depends if you want to go career or not. If you want to go career, do Navy HSCP. Your years in school count as Active Duty. So:
4 years of school
1 year internship
~3 years GMO
~3 years residency
4 years payback
~ Fellowship?
~ Fellowship payback
=
~20 years=retirement= pension for the rest of your life

Your other option: Military scholarship
4 years of school (any branch scholarship)
1 year internship
4 years of GMO
Get out, civilian residency, enjoy life.
Oh and with this option (I could be wrong but) you can use your GI Bill to supplement your stipend. This way you're not in the poor house as a resident.
 

chipwhitley

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One of our lecturers 2nd year did an internship year then went into general practice in a rural community (this was in the early '80s where although uncommon it wasn't unheard of to still do that). He told us it was one of the dumbest things he'd ever done in his life as he was grossly under trained and unprepared. He went back and finished residency after 1-2 years.
And the NPs practicing independently in rural communities without any residency are so well prepared? They haven't killed anyone yet...
 
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hamstergang

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Can I do a 1 year internship then work as a doc for awhile (I know my options here are limited) then match into family or something similar 5 or 10 years later if it ends up being necessary?
...
Also is there anything clinical you can do without even a 1 year residency?
Better question is why would you want to know this? Is there some underlying problem or issue that we could help you solve?

If your listed status is right, you're not even in med school yet, so maybe you're planning a little too far ahead.
 

Taddy Mason

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And the NPs practicing independently in rural communities without any residency are so well prepared? They haven't killed anyone yet...
Not sure what that has to do with my post or this thread.
 

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Not sure what that has to do with my post or this thread.
Your post was about someone with a year of residency saying they felt unprepared. Well, there are people out there with far less than that doing the same job and a pretty good one too...
 

Taddy Mason

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Your post was about someone with a year of residency saying they felt unprepared. Well, there are people out there with far less than that doing the same job and a pretty good one too...
This thread has nothing to do with NPs or their scope of practice and level of autonomy - I seriously don't get why almost every other thread on the allo forum has to revolve around or devolve to that topic. The anecdote I brought up was about someone who went to medical school (not NP/PA school) and how prepared he felt about his ability to function as an independent physician (not a midlevel) with 1 year of residency.
 
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chipwhitley

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This thread has nothing to do with NPs or their scope of practice and level of autonomy - I seriously don't get why almost every other thread on the allo forum has to revolve around or devolve to that topic. The anecdote I brought up was about someone who went to medical school (not NP/PA school) and how prepared he felt about his preparedness to function as an independent physician (not a midlevel) with 1 year of residency.
Could you please explain to me what the functional difference is between a physician practicing solo in a rural area and a midlevel practicing solo in a rural area? In that setting, it's the same exact job with the same responsibilities, so for one person to require a hell of a lot more training to be competent seems off.
 

Taddy Mason

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Could you please explain to me what the functional difference is between a physician practicing solo in a rural area and a midlevel practicing solo in a rural area? In that setting, it's the same exact job with the same responsibilities, so for one person to require a hell of a lot more training to be competent seems off.
Midlevels can't practice autonomously (a supervising physician must be on site at all times if a midlevel is seeing patients) and don't have the same level of responsibility even in rural communities in the region of the US where I'm from. Rural PCPs are often expected to do full OB/Gyn care including C-sections unless the sh!t hits the fan and a referral to a larger center is warranted. They're also expected to function as first assists during surgery. NPs pretty much just do basic outpatient visits and low acuity ER visits at critical access hospitals. It's not the same job.
 
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chipwhitley

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Midlevels can't practice autonomously (a supervising physician must be on site at all times if a midlevel is seeing patients) and don't have the same level of responsibility even in rural communities in the region of the US where I'm from. Rural PCPs are expected to do full OB/Gyn care including C-sections unless the sh!t hits the fan and a referral to a larger center is warranted. They're also expected to function as first assists during surgery. NPs pretty much just do basic outpatient visits and low acuity ER visits at critical access hospitals. It's not the same job.
That's not true at all. NPs can practice fully autonomously in over half of the states in the US, and in rural areas where there are few physicians available, they very often serve as full PCPs for their patients.
 

Taddy Mason

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That's not true at all. NPs can practice fully autonomously in over half of the states in the US, and in rural areas they very often serve as full PCPs for their patients. PAs can practice semi-autonomously, a supervising physician does not need to be on-site, just reachable in some way, by phone or skype.
The regulations are state dependent - one size doesn't fit all (...I also mentioned that I was referring to the region of the country I'm from in the post you quoted...). Yes, NPs essentially function as PCPs in rural communities, but they often aren't the ones doing deliveries or c-sections, functioning as first assist in surgery, or stabilizing acute traumas, STEMIs, strokes, etc. before shipping them off to a larger center. Physicians in rural communities have much more responsibilities than just basic PCP care; midlevels in rural communities are often just limited to basic PCP care.
 
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mehc012

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What training requirements exist to work in one of the medical marijuana clinics out in CA? They don't seem to strict on the spirit of the law, and you could probably make decent money.
 

hamstergang

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Could you please explain to me what the functional difference is between a physician practicing solo in a rural area and a midlevel practicing solo in a rural area? In that setting, it's the same exact job with the same responsibilities, so for one person to require a hell of a lot more training to be competent seems off.
It's very possible that someone who learns and knows less doesn't realize just how incompetent they are. When you have less that you can think about, decisions take less effort to make.
 

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The amazing thing about it is every time he sidetracks threads is he seems to be making the arguments that doctors need LESS training, not that NPs need MORE.

It's a ridiculous lack of insight
I noticed that and was honestly kind of confused at first.
 
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chipwhitley

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Please see below.
It's funny all the docs on here seem to have the balls to trash NPs when it's on an anonymous forum, but when it's in real life you guys all get incredibly politically correct and extol their virtues.
 

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It's funny all the docs on here seem to have the balls to trash NPs when it's on an anonymous forum, but when it's in real life you guys all get incredibly politically correct and extol their virtues.
"Not all docs".

Come to my office and I'll be glad to tell you why we have a PA and not an NP (and I've also posted the reasons why here on the forum.)


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"Not all docs".

Come to my office and I'll be glad to tell you why we have a PA and not an NP (and I've also posted the reasons why here on the forum.)


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You, I definitely believe :) Most other docs? Not so much. I'm not even sure SouthernSurgeon would have the guts to say a lot of the stuff he does in real life, though I'd be happy if I were wrong.
 

mehc012

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It's funny all the docs on here seem to have the balls to trash NPs when it's on an anonymous forum, but when it's in real life you guys all get incredibly politically correct and extol their virtues.
Yeah, and in real life I didn't feel the need to tell my coworker, who had already signed their loans and decided 100% to pursue this path, that I thought their decision to drop all of their DO interviews in light of their Carib 'acceptance' was the biggest mistake of their life. In anonymous forums, you expect the opinions of random strangers by virtue of the medium. In real life, you don't want the people you meet telling you their opinion on your life/choices.
 

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You, I definitely believe :) Most other docs? Not so much.
We are a spineless lot by and far but that doesn't negate the inaccuracy of your argument that mid levels are just as well-trained and safe as physicians.

Back to the original discussion: there's a lot of hyperbole here about what you can and can't do and what requires a license and BE or BC are three completely different arguments.

The OP will find it exceedingly difficult to find gainful employment with only one year of postgraduate education. There's no argument there.

The question he asked is whether it would be possible to return to training after an extended period of time. The answer is really that it depends on how long of a period of time and what he's been doing in the interim. The more actual doctor work that he's doing (eg, Urgent Care instead of insurance physicals) the more likely it is that some programs may take a chance on him. These are not general top-flight programs nor would he have the luxury of specialty or geographical choices. There's also the issue that most programs would prefer a fresh grad rather than someone who seemingly made a poor decision to drop out after a year. Even for those with good reasons there can be some stigma attached to that.


However there is no doubt that this is a very bad decision that significantly impacts future training options and employment and no one should ever consider this except in dire emergencies.


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hamstergang

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It's funny all the docs on here seem to have the balls to trash NPs when it's on an anonymous forum, but when it's in real life you guys all get incredibly politically correct and extol their virtues.
It's not at all funny that people behave differently online than irl. It's a known phenomenon that's been studied. How you think this contributes to your point, however, is confusing.
 

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And the NPs practicing independently in rural communities without any residency are so well prepared? They haven't killed anyone yet...
Not to derail the thread any further but please don't make me bust out a Google search of nurse practitioners and patient death to prove you wrong. There are plenty of examples and those are just the ones that got caught.


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Stagg737

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As the previous poster said, this will never fly in the civilian world because you would be a walking malpractice magnet unless you did something extremely low paying like wellness checks for insurance companies. The military would afford you the option to do a 1 year internship and do a GMO tour for your commitment length without additional training before going back to do a complete residency. Note that this would add extra commitment time however if you do a military residency afterwards.
I don't even think that's a possibility. I've never heard of any insurance company reimbursing a physician who hasn't completed residency. Maybe if they just finish intern year and pass step 3 it's different though?

I could be wrong, but I've never heard of this happening in modern times.

-Dropping after 1 year of residency would be a major red flag for future employment.
-ALL forms of primary care (Pediatrics, FMED, IMED) require completion of residency and passing their boards
-Your odds of becoming an employed physician at a major medical institution would by abysmal without being boarded in something
- Group practices would pass you up over applicants with board certification
The bolded one is off. I know of a doc in my hometown (large suburb) that didn't do residency and had a cash-only private practice. Apparently his patients sign a contract saying they won't sue him under any circumstance and promotes the bs fad diets and stuff like that. Even with that I don't think he made enough to keep his practice open, but I also haven't been back in years.
 
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bwmd

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Some states (like TX) allow for you to obtain your full medical license after completing your internship and passing Step 3. If you didn't want to do a residency, you could either do a one year preliminary medicine or transitional year internship, thus not requiring you to quit any program midway through.

The caveat is that basically no one would ever hire you.

You might have some trouble getting malpractice insurance and would likely pay more for it.

But you could certainly practice medicine if you could find patients willing to see you. Perhaps open up a med-spa. Might be able to review charts for insurance or evaluate worker's comp claims or something along those lines.
 

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Yeah, and in real life I didn't feel the need to tell my coworker, who had already signed their loans and decided 100% to pursue this path, that I thought their decision to drop all of their DO interviews in light of their Carib 'acceptance' was the biggest mistake of their life. In anonymous forums, you expect the opinions of random strangers by virtue of the medium. In real life, you don't want the people you meet telling you their opinion on your life/choices.
We're not talking about individual life choices, we're talking about patient care here. If you really think an entire group consisting of thousands of professionals are truly incompetent and giving people substandard care, that's something to speak up about. Pretty different than your coworker choosing a Carib school over a DO school, which is a purely personal issue.
 

chipwhitley

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Not to derail the thread any further but please don't make me bust out a Google search of nurse practitioners and patient death to prove you wrong. There are plenty of examples and those are just the ones that got caught.


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Lol, I didn't mean it literally. I'm sure that's happened. Fully trained physicians kill people too. But as of yet no one has shown a significant difference between the two.
 

mehc012

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We're not talking about individual life choices, we're talking about patient care here. If you really think an entire group consisting of thousands of professionals are truly incompetent and killing people, that's something to speak up about.
Sure; but bringing it up to the individual who has already made their decision to enter the field isn't addressing the growth of that group. It's just crapping on that individual. There's no need for people to go around being rude to NP's faces even if they think that the growth of the field is dangerous and/or insufficient to the task they are trying to take on. You address that by not hiring people with that degree, citing evidence to oppose policies that would open up practice to them (which is addressing politicians, not the individual workers) and by speaking to your colleagues and hopefully convincing them to do the same on both fronts.
SDN is somewhere where people can discuss things with their colleagues, as well as (noted above) a place where anonymous opinions on things are expected more than in the real world. Thus, it makes perfect sense that you'd see these opinions openly stated here, but not necessarily in the real world. I don't see hypocrisy in this, just tact, and I'm not sure where your surprise comes from. It certainly doesn't prove any points for you.

That being said, this really isn't the point of this thread, so let's just move on.
 
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It's funny all the docs on here seem to have the balls to trash NPs when it's on an anonymous forum, but when it's in real life you guys all get incredibly politically correct and extol their virtues.
It's almost like doctors aren't a homogenous group of people who all share the same opinions.
 

mehc012

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It's almost like doctors aren't a homogenous group of people who all share the same opinions.
Don't be silly...what's med school for if not to brainwash us urm, assimilate us into the hivemind I mean educate us on the standards of professionalism in the field?
 
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chipwhitley

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Sure; but bringing it up to the individual who has already made their decision to enter the field isn't addressing the growth of that group. It's just crapping on that individual. There's no need for people to go around being rude to NP's faces even if they think that the growth of the field is dangerous and/or insufficient to the task they are trying to take on. You address that by not hiring people with that degree, citing evidence to oppose policies that would open up practice to them (which is addressing politicians, not the individual workers) and by speaking to your colleagues and hopefully convincing them to do the same on both fronts.
SDN is somewhere where people can discuss things with their colleagues, as well as (noted above) a place where anonymous opinions on things are expected more than in the real world. Thus, it makes perfect sense that you'd see these opinions openly stated here, but not necessarily in the real world. I don't see hypocrisy in this, just tact, and I'm not sure where your surprise comes from. It certainly doesn't prove any points for you.

That being said, this really isn't the point of this thread, so let's just move on.
I wasn't referring to bringing it up to an individual. I'm saying the vast majority of doctors are reluctant to bring it up at all, whether that's to politicians, their hospital administrators, or anyone with the power to control this issue. Many because they selfishly profit off if it. A bit hypocritical for them to tell us that we're useless without 3-7 years of residency, while at the same time hiring these people in their clinics and hospitals to churn through patients for them with minimal to no supervision - that's somehow fine. Anyway, that's not the point of the thread, so that's all I have to say for now.
 

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I would think this question is similar to the Carribean graduate trying several years in a row to get accepted into a residency, or a medical doctor from another country who have their academic work accepted, but must complete a residency to get licensed. There are individuals who succeed in doing this, but many more who fail to ever get accepted. The only non-emergency reason I can think of to quit after 1 year, is if you already had a Ph.D or were planning to get one to go into research.

Also, the competition is going to be far more stiff than initially, especially if you hoped to start as a 2nd year.....you are competing against all of the fresh new grads, as well as all the other graduates who never completed their residency or are hoping to get licensed in the US.
 

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Throw away account here but I've wondered this for awhile but been scared to ask.

Can I do a 1 year internship then work as a doc for awhile (I know my options here are limited) then match into family or something similar 5 or 10 years later if it ends up being necessary? Or basically any type of additional training down the line to be able to take insurance and be board certified.

What if I do a 3 year residency and drop after a year would it be possible to go back to a residency 5 or 10 years later if it is necessary?

Also is there anything clinical you can do without even a 1 year residency? Like any kind of cash only practice preferably that you couldn't do straight out of undergrad?

Is this the same for both American DO and American MD?
In Texas you can get a medical license with only one year of internship behind you. I am kind of surprised this is still the case, but I looked it up to be sure. HOWEVER, you would have a hard time getting hired, you would be unable to qualify for hospital admitting privileges, and you would not be eligible for board certification. It would severely limit your future options. With pay for residency years now in the 40,000 range, it is so worth your time to finish out a 3 year residency before you go into practice.
 

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In Texas you can get a medical license with only one year of internship behind you. I am kind of surprised this is still the case, but I looked it up to be sure. HOWEVER, you would have a hard time getting hired, you would be unable to qualify for hospital admitting privileges, and you would not be eligible for board certification. It would severely limit your future options. With pay for residency years now in the 40,000 range, it is so worth your time to finish out a 3 year residency before you go into practice.
It's not only in Texas... AMG can get medical license in more than half US states after 1-year internship, and as you said, getting a job might be a different story. I actually think that should not be the case since other professionals with far less training than these physicians do not have that kind of issue.