10 months of PGY-1 Prelim IM, now have interview for PGY-2 Neuro, will I get the spot??

[DrRama]

I successfully completed 10 months of PGY-1 IM and left for a family emergency. I have the full support of my former PD. Luckily, I got an interview for a PGY-2 Neuro spot. Now I am wondering if the Neuro PD will have issue with me not having a full PGY-1 year and which could preclude me from getting the spot.
Neuro PD reviewed all my documents and rotations completed and is still bringing me in for interview. Should I bring up the fact that I have an incomplete PGY-1, or let him address it? Would he likely just make me do additional rotations (which I am happy to do). I guess I am anxious about the interview and trying to cover all my bases. Any advice??

I feel that I am confident, humble (funny, a humble person saying they are humble haha...) and I am trying to assess if I have a shot. Thanks!!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Dral]

When you say full support, what does that mean?

Will intern year sign off as you completed the year? You will need them to do that independently from you advanced residency when it comes to licensure and credentialing.

 

[DrRama]

Full support means that my former Program Director writes me a good LoR, speaks to other PDs and tells them I was a good resident without issue...and confirms that I did only 10 months, with a signed list of rotations completed (which the Neuro PD has a copy of). I am hoping that I would just give up a month of vacation or so to make up the missed rotations...

 

[Dral]

Ok. You need to make sure your intern year will sign off that you completed a full year.

If they are willing to do that, then you should be ok.

If they will not sign off on official documents, it doesn't matter what you Neuro program thinks...you will still not be able to get state licenses nor credentialed at most hospital systems.

 

[DrRama]

I do not think my intern program will give me more than 10 months credit. Though I have not asked about getting a full year credit from the point of view of already being in a PGY-2 position...I doubt my former PD would since it would be false.

 

[oldanddone]

hmm wonder if one of the programme directors can give some insight..can't remember their usernames. @aProgDirector
wonder what the options are - finish whatever time is needed for a 'full year' at prelim programme if okayed for a late start at the pgy2 programme?

 

[DrRama]

Thanks y'all for the input. I remember some months back that I interviewed at a PGY-2 IM position and the program director was willing to have me start a month early and then give up a month of vacation to have the complete year...I hope this Neuro PD is thinking along these same lines.

 

[Dral]

Here's the thing, I just got my PA unrestricted license. In addition to my app, I had to give a sheet to my Derm PD to sign and return to the board. I also had to send a similar sheet to my intern year hospital for them to sign and return.

I'm looking at a blank copy of my app now. For the sheet I had to send to my intern year it asks the intern year institution to fill out dates of attendance.

Then, there is a statement along the lines of "I certify the above successfully completed this graduate medical training..."

Then they have to sign, notarized, and return to the board.

Ask your intern year PD if they will fill it out correctly.

And as I'm sure you know, don't mess with state boards. If they catch you in any kind of lie, you're toast.

And they do check this stuff with a fine toothed comb. I put my intern year dates (I had to supply this too in addition to my intern year doing it on their sheet) from July 1 to June 3o of the next year. Technically I started on June 17 or so (orientation). The board emailed me and said they had to match exactly (my version and intern years version). Mine was an honest mistake on my part so I just corrected it and moved on.

If your intern year just puts July 1 until April 30 or whatever, it will be noticed and likely questioned.

Anyway, TLDR is check with intern year, and verify with a prospective state board that you will be ok.

 

[Dral]

I hate to sound like bearer of bad news, but trust me, you want to know this now opposed to dealing with significant headaches down the road.

 

[DrRama]

Yeah I agree about it being a headache down the road...from the posts, I think I will be upfront about my concern when I interview with Neuro PD.

 

[DrRama]

Thanks again guys... I looked at ACGME Neuro Residency requirements, it states:
Residents must have of broad clinical experience in general internal medicine either during the first year of a 48-month program or a year of graduate education accredited by the ACGME or the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada prior to entering a 36-month program. (Core) IV.A.6.b).(1) This year must include at least one of the following: IV.A.6.b).(1).(a) eight months in internal medicine with primary responsibility in patient care, or (Core) IV.A.6.b).(1).(b) six months in internal medicine with primary responsibility in patient care and a period of at least two months’ time comprising one or more months of pediatrics, emergency medicine, internal medicine, or family medicine. (Core)

I have 8 months (out of the 10, other 2 months were vacation and neuro elective) of IM with primary responsibility of patient care...

I hope I am interpreting this correctly. I will mention this in my interview. Y'all think I'm missing anything?

 

[RangerBob]

You need to complete an entire year of internship to move on to your PGY-2 year. Those requirements you cite are just the rotation requirements for neurology--you still need to finish a prelim year. You cannot start your PGY-2 year until you finish PGY-1, which means best case scenario is that you start at the neuro program as a PGY-2 and do two months of rotations and then graduate to PGY-2. Worst case scenario is you need to re-do intern year (not all programs will give you credit--I think that's completely up to the discretion of the program director).

I'd second the opinion you should let the neuro PD know. If the 10 months of internship you completed were this year (ie, if you left your PGY-1 program earlier this month), then the neuro PD probably assumed you were on track to finish your pre-lim year. If you did your pre-lim last year and have been away from residency for ~1yr, then the PD is probably aware as I would imagine that should be pretty clear in your application. But it never hurts to be certain--as mentioned above, either the PD is aware and has plans to accommodate you, or they are unaware and might very well turn down your application if they know you aren't eligible/ready to start your PGY-2 year.

 

[Dral]

Ranger Bob is correct in that those months are specific to Neuro. At my intern year program, the Neuro people did different rotations because of those requirements. I was going into Derm which doesn't have those types of requirements...so I only ended up having to do 6 months total of core primary care rotaitons (instead of 8 total)

However, you still do have to finish an intern year. Again, you need to make sure your prospective Neuro program is aware, but you have to be sure that your current program is willing to sign off as your intern year being complete. There are general regulations about what constitutes an intern year, but this may be up for interpretation by an individual PD. For instance, someone at my program wanted a bit more time off for maternity leave. The PD allowed it to happen, despite that fact that there are certain guidelines about number of weeks that need to be completed. This is totally legit and nothing is wrong with it. However, the point is that it is situational and program/PD dependent. Of course, there is a limit. If the person at my program asked for another month off, it probably would have been a different story.

So again, in my opinion, you need to check in with your current intern year PD first to see if they are giving you credit for the whole year or not. If they do, then your prospective Neuro program should be ok with it (I would think), since you apparently have fulfilled the minimal Neuro core requirements.

As mentioned, if your intern year won't sign off, maybe the Neuro program would be willing to get you up to speed and sign off on your licensing forms down the road as completing an intern year. Tbh, I don't really know how the technicalities of that would work. Maybe someone else with more knowledge on the subject can chime in.

I feel this is more of an issue with your current program, not your future one.

 

[gutonc]

The only thing that matters here is that you haven't completed an intern year. Therefore, you can't start a Neuro program. This PD may be willing to work with you on that one, but you're not going to be able to just start July 1 as an advanced Neuro R2 no matter how nice and understanding the neuro PD may be.

 

[DrRama]

Ultimately, I will be open and honest with the Neuro PD. I'm flying half away across the country for the interview, and I'm sure he did his due diligence in reviewing my application. Let's see what happens...

 

[gutonc]

Ultimately, I will be open and honest with the Neuro PD. I'm flying half away across the country for the interview, and I'm sure he did his due diligence in reviewing my application. Let's see what happens...

IMHO it was silly of you to not bring this up before you spent the money on the plane tickets. But good luck.

 

[DrRama]

I started this thread to bounce some ideas off people to help figure out what the Neuro PD may be thinking. I have been out residency for over a year. It is plastered all over my application that I have only 10 months (initial email, dates on my CV, official list of rotations completed...). The program has replied to me that my documents have been reviewed and they would like to bring me in for interview. I think I wanted to see if anyone had mind reading powers and tell me what the Neuro PD is thinking. Yes, I need a full PGY-1 Year. Yes, the Neuro PD can make me do additional rotations. If I get the job, I will have to ensure that all my accreditation will be in order. Yes, the Neuro PD could have asked me to fly out there to tell me in person that I am not eligible, but I hope he is not that evil. Yes, I am willing to do whatever it takes to continue my training. All in all, I think the in-person interview is just to determine if I am an amiable person, don't have any psychopathology, and am someone that people can work with for 3 years (+2 months haha).

I think the outcome of the interview will determine what actions were silly or not...Thanks for the well wishes.

 

[Dral]

Yep, good luck! I hope it works out for you, but please please please figure this out now before it causes you mucho headaches down the road.

I know you may be tempted to 'just pass go, collect Neuro residency' now, but it will likely come back to bite you down the road.

Ok, I sound like a broken record at this point. I'll stop.

Good luck, hopefully you get the spot!