Where do you think residencies are headed

  • Expect a rapid expansion of programs over the next 3-5 years, 38% unmatched is the peak.

    Votes: 8 10.4%
  • Expect to hit 50% unmatched within the next 3-5 years.

    Votes: 28 36.4%
  • A sustained/long-term disparity between those seeking and those receiving residency slots.

    Votes: 47 61.0%
  • The #'s of unmatched applicants 5-7 years out will decrease.

    Votes: 10 13.0%
  • We will meet ACCP 2020.

    Votes: 3 3.9%

  • Total voters
    77

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OTOH - I always thought everyone knew UCSF is though of as the #1 pharmacy school.

Imentioned that to someone here on the east coast and they said "oh, there's a pharmacy school at UCSF?"

name recognition only goes so far.
I think this is fairly true nationwide. If you look around the country, you will generally find that most pharmacists went to school fairly close to where you are practicing, and most pharmacy students are from relatively close to their school. Consequently, while we work together at national meetings and other means, in decisions regarding residencies and hiring, there are very good (ranked) pharmacy schools that won't get you any extra consideration in other areas of the country, aside from any geographic diversity the program desires.

While UCSF is ranked by US News as the top pharmacy school in the country, that is of little consequence to someone, for example, in the Northeast or Midwest, where they may not even know anyone locally who went to UCSF, giving them a minimal barometer of the level of education.

Even if you consider US News rankings to be worth something (and I think a lot of people do not), each region will have their schools that are well thought of and those that are less so.
 
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I hear those rankings are done by a mail out survey to faculty of pharmacy schools. Not based on any real outcomes. So I doubt anyone that knows this cares much for rankings.
 

Jetninjin

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There is one truth on this board that shows up time and time again in this discussion: those who shrug off school rankings don't go to a school that is ranked high.
 

patmcd

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There is one truth on this board that shows up time and time again in this discussion: those who shrug off school rankings don't go to a school that is ranked high.
Or perhaps its only those that go to highly ranked schools that insist they are worth something?
 

KARM12

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There is one truth on this board that shows up time and time again in this discussion: those who shrug off school rankings don't go to a school that is ranked high.
I think we all agree that school matters up to a point...but in the end it is who you are and what you do that gets you the residency. No one is entitled to anything based on what school they went to. I would take someone any day if they were hard working, teachable and dedicated over someone who thinks they are better than everyone from a better known school.
 

rxlynn

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It's still a mess, and I think the lack of slots could be a real hindrance to the profession as a whole by creating a de facto two-tier system, something the powers at be CLEARLY did not want when they elevated the PharmD itself to 1st professional degree and eliminated the BSPharm (instead of keeping that two-tier system in place).
I could not agree more - the pharmacy schools clearly try to sell it as "you'll never be able to get a hospital job without residency", yet if the current trend continues there will be a large number of people every year who want to do a residency and don't match or scramble. Also, there isn't any way to track how many more people might have considered residency if the situation wasn't so competitive. I would put myself at least partially in that category. I had absolutely no hospital exposure prior to 4th year, and by the time I figured out that I might actually like clinical hospital pharmacy (September of P4 year) it was too damn late to 1) get a hospital intern job 2) change any of my already assigned P4 year rotations, which had been chosen based on seeking a community position 3) publish etc. So, I ultimately decided to focus my efforts on getting a job that I would enjoy rather than putting myself through the whole competitive process when A) there was no guarantee that I would match and B) even if I did get a residency, I might work my butt off for a year and then not be able to get a clinical job after the PGY-1 because the job market is so bad.

My personal opinion is that we will never come close to meeting the 2020 goals, and frankly the language of that whole thing pisses me off. "Residency required for all direct patient care" - am I really not providing direct patient care if I am at CVS counseling my patient??? OK - Rant over.
 

bacillus1

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I could not agree more - the pharmacy schools clearly try to sell it as "you'll never be able to get a hospital job without residency", yet if the current trend continues there will be a large number of people every year who want to do a residency and don't match or scramble. Also, there isn't any way to track how many more people might have considered residency if the situation wasn't so competitive. I would put myself at least partially in that category. I had absolutely no hospital exposure prior to 4th year, and by the time I figured out that I might actually like clinical hospital pharmacy (September of P4 year) it was too damn late to 1) get a hospital intern job 2) change any of my already assigned P4 year rotations, which had been chosen based on seeking a community position 3) publish etc. So, I ultimately decided to focus my efforts on getting a job that I would enjoy rather than putting myself through the whole competitive process when A) there was no guarantee that I would match and B) even if I did get a residency, I might work my butt off for a year and then not be able to get a clinical job after the PGY-1 because the job market is so bad.

My personal opinion is that we will never come close to meeting the 2020 goals, and frankly the language of that whole thing pisses me off. "Residency required for all direct patient care" - am I really not providing direct patient care if I am at CVS counseling my patient??? OK - Rant over.
Actually when you look at the estimated percentages and other language in the vision, it seems like they do refer to CVS as "providing direct patient care". This is why I am so against the whole thing. Community residency required for CVS job? Yeah, right.
 

Farmercyst

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I worked 2 days every week, plus extra shifts when they needed me, averaging just shy of 20 hours/week.

Work is a great way to earn real world experience and practice/reinforce the knowledge you learned. But working excessively is not a good idea when your school performance suffers. After all, you are a student first.

What many residency coordinator want to see is that balancing skill. A good resident is someone who can both (a) a good learner and (b) an good worker. Lacking either is not good, and that should be obvious.

What will separate a real intern from one who barely works? It shows up (1) the letter of recommendation. If you worked somewhere for years, you better get a good LOR from there and it better say what you did and why you are good. (2) the projects you did during your internship, which will often come up during the interview.

Applying for residency is kind of like applying to pharmacy school again. You remember that, good grades & experience. Some complained about unfairness then, some now. But you know what they are looking for ahead of time. So set yourself up to meet it.

Even now >60% of the residency applicants will still get in. That's better odds than when you were applying to pharmacy school.
I've struggled since getting in to make my CV as broad and balanced as possible. I don't understand the lack of time issue. To me it's a balance and foresight. My GPA isn't stellar (3.3ish) but I've got board experience will have 1500 of hours work experience plus school hours, CVS summer internship, poster presentation, and 3 kids. Not to mention a position in my local church that I function in. It's not because I'm a workaholic, it's because the writing has been on the wall since I started pharmacy school that retail jobs would tank, residencies would be hit next, and I needed something to make me stand out when it came to residency applications. Granted, I was counting more on 75/25 than a coin flip, but I'm hoping I'm balanced enough that there's not reason for someone not to take me. I figure I'll apply to about 8 residencies 5 general/3 focused peds and see where I end up. If I don't get in, I know at least 2 people who have already told me to talk to them when I graduate.
 

pharmwannebe2

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I could not agree more - the pharmacy schools clearly try to sell it as "you'll never be able to get a hospital job without residency", yet if the current trend continues there will be a large number of people every year who want to do a residency and don't match or scramble. Also, there isn't any way to track how many more people might have considered residency if the situation wasn't so competitive. I would put myself at least partially in that category. I had absolutely no hospital exposure prior to 4th year, and by the time I figured out that I might actually like clinical hospital pharmacy (September of P4 year) it was too damn late to 1) get a hospital intern job 2) change any of my already assigned P4 year rotations, which had been chosen based on seeking a community position 3) publish etc. So, I ultimately decided to focus my efforts on getting a job that I would enjoy rather than putting myself through the whole competitive process when A) there was no guarantee that I would match and B) even if I did get a residency, I might work my butt off for a year and then not be able to get a clinical job after the PGY-1 because the job market is so bad.

My personal opinion is that we will never come close to meeting the 2020 goals, and frankly the language of that whole thing pisses me off. "Residency required for all direct patient care" - am I really not providing direct patient care if I am at CVS counseling my patient??? OK - Rant over.
See, I don't like 2020 but I think it is a forseeable future. I think that with so many pharm school's opening up the only way a person is going to be considered for a job is with a residency.

I undoubtedly believe that in the future, residency is the only way to land a job in a hospital just to staff. If you have noticed how many residents gather in a year, the slots are just getting filled more and more each year. On top of that more hospitals seem to be opening up new clinical spots for residence. But, seriously, how many pharmacists do you need being a clinical specialist position in a hospital? At most 1 pharmacist for each medical team (at a big hospital). This is about maybe 6 or 7 at most. Easily big hospital have this many residence per year. Plus clinical specialists don't tend to leave their position for anything.
 

patmcd

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At most 1 pharmacist for each medical team (at a big hospital). This is about maybe 6 or 7 at most. Easily big hospital have this many residence per year. Plus clinical specialists don't tend to leave their position for anything.
If there is going to be 1 pharmacist per medical team at a major hospital, there will be way more than 6 or 7. Even at 1 pharmacist per unit, most hospitals would have more than 6 or 7.
 

xiphoid2010

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I've struggled since getting in to make my CV as broad and balanced as possible. I don't understand the lack of time issue. To me it's a balance and foresight. My GPA isn't stellar (3.3ish) but I've got board experience will have 1500 of hours work experience plus school hours, CVS summer internship, poster presentation, and 3 kids. Not to mention a position in my local church that I function in. It's not because I'm a workaholic, it's because the writing has been on the wall since I started pharmacy school that retail jobs would tank, residencies would be hit next, and I needed something to make me stand out when it came to residency applications. Granted, I was counting more on 75/25 than a coin flip, but I'm hoping I'm balanced enough that there's not reason for someone not to take me. I figure I'll apply to about 8 residencies 5 general/3 focused peds and see where I end up. If I don't get in, I know at least 2 people who have already told me to talk to them when I graduate.
Exactly. Foresight and planning. I have been a proponent of students maintaining high academic marks and broad internship experience since I joined the forum 4 years ago, and have that concept sneered at by quite a few people along the way. "C's makes Pharm.Ds", "retail jobs are plenty all around", "Anybody who wants a residency can get one" Fast forward to 2010, those criticisms have long been silenced.

People need to leave margin for error at each step of the planning process. Don't plan things using optimistic forecast, use the pessimistic one. So plan things in such a way that you can achieve your goals even with worse than average variables, this way you can survive even when the majority fails. Does studying more and working harder kinda suck? Yes, but they doesn't suck as much if you can't get a good job. And if things work out better than you planned, it's always better to get a windfall than a disappointment.
 

RX CARE

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See, I don't like 2020 but I think it is a forseeable future. I think that with so many pharm school's opening up the only way a person is going to be considered for a job is with a residency.

I undoubtedly believe that in the future, residency is the only way to land a job in a hospital just to staff. If you have noticed how many residents gather in a year, the slots are just getting filled more and more each year. On top of that more hospitals seem to be opening up new clinical spots for residence. But, seriously, how many pharmacists do you need being a clinical specialist position in a hospital? At most 1 pharmacist for each medical team (at a big hospital). This is about maybe 6 or 7 at most. Easily big hospital have this many residence per year. Plus clinical specialists don't tend to leave their position for anything.
The way I usually try to see it too is that there are still a good number of hospitals - that are not teaching hospitals that are not decentralized and/or have not even at least adopted the services of a single clinical pharmacist. I know quite a few where I live, and they are in the immediate surburbs to a metro area. They actually have nurse practitioners attempting to do the job and I wouldn't say they always get it right. Case and point, one of my friends' (also a pharm student) dad had open heart surgery, and he was discharged without VTE prophylaxis. He went in there to raise hell and the nurse practioner couldn't even dose the warfarin, and said she had to consult with her boss. When he asked about his dad's labs and what his INR was, they weren't able to furnish it. He demanded they consult the surgeon and asked to do everything again from scratch and discharge him correctly. The issue I was really concerned with was how many people possibly could have been treated that way, without knowledge of the requirements. It's all about a few more hospitals willing to change and adopting that clinical/team model and I believe more hospitals will come thru in due time.....All hospitals start from somewhere, so there will be jobs. I would still prefer being trained at a large academic hospital, and being hired to transform a non-progressive hospital into one with better clinical services.
 
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confettiflyer

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The way I usually try to see it too is that there are still a good number of hospitals -...
I agree...if you live in academia long enough, you sometimes forget what it's like in the rest of the world. Not every hospital has CPOE, is progressive in the scope of pharmacy, and open to change like the university hospital you may have done your experiences at.

These, I believe, represent real opportunities that won't necessarily require a CV the size of Texas or a PGY-2 rockstar. They'll require a good old fashioned PharmD (or BS Pharm) with a good work ethic, real world logic, flexibility, the ability to jive with the culture, and push forward changes at a reasonable, not revolutionary, rate.

Maybe I shouldn't mourn my potential inability to gain a residency, I should probably get over it like a bad break up and focus on something else. I'm not necessarily relegated to a basement or retail hell because of it.
 

pharmwannebe2

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some of you said a hospital might need 20-40 full time clinical specialists. I will give you all that. This might be the normal at some hospitals. but at most hospitals (the small hanky panky ones) they are lucky to have even 1 clinical specialist. As it stands right now, most pharmacists aren't considered nessarary on a medical team. You all might argue and quote that study done by ASHP or what ever other pharm organization did it. But lets get realistic...a small even normal sized hospital isn't going to spend so much money (100,000 dollars per year) for a couple of specialist. It hasn't really been proven and is hard to prove. I think this will prevent pharmacists from getting on many med teams thus leading to more residences staffing. Leading to residency based staffing.
 

jonniii

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Honestly, I don't understand why more hospitals aren't creating PGY1 and PGY2 programs. It's cheap labor. I know it takes a lot to create a program, but the hospital wins out by having pharmacists do the job at a fraction of the normal salary.
Any residency program needs to be accredited, these are not positions you can 'create' by solely hiring some people. Some hospitals do not have the resources to train residents for this kind of short-term hires.
I guess you do not understand what residents do - they perform clinical activities under the supervision of their preceptors. These kind of activities are not usually done by staff pharmacists.
 

lazydazy

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Yes, I completely understand what a resident does. Why else would I complete a residency if I didn't know what it entails? :idea: And yes what a huge undertaking it is to create a residency program. I know someone who created a residency program!

Something has to give to accommodate so many graduates who want to work in a clinical setting and to meet ASHP's recommendations. More hospitals need to establish residency programs. If hospitals can have medical residency programs than they can establish pharmacy programs.
 

bacillus1

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I would rather not have programs just creating residencies out of the blue (and my opinion may change come P4 if I don't match if I choose to do residency, that would just be devastating). The demand for clinical pharmacists is not increasing much. If a lot of new programs opened, it would just be a lot of residency-trained pharmacists with no job (or having to work at CVS). I know residency is hard, and I would hate to go through it and put in all the work and end up jobless.
 

p-rog

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I would rather not have programs just creating residencies out of the blue (and my opinion may change come P4 if I don't match if I choose to do residency, that would just be devastating). The demand for clinical pharmacists is not increasing much. If a lot of new programs opened, it would just be a lot of residency-trained pharmacists with no job (or having to work at CVS). I know residency is hard, and I would hate to go through it and put in all the work and end up jobless.
It's a lot more likely that PGY-1's would become a "requirement" to work as a staff hospital pharmacist than for residency-trained pharmacists to go unhired due increases in residency programs.

I guess theoretically if you increased the residency programs too dramatically you could eventually saturate all the staff hospital positions w/ PGY-1-trained pharmacists, but I don't think that's what you were talking about.
 

genesis09

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Yes, I completely understand what a resident does. Why else would I complete a residency if I didn't know what it entails? :idea: And yes what a huge undertaking it is to create a residency program. I know someone who created a residency program!

Something has to give to accommodate so many graduates who want to work in a clinical setting and to meet ASHP's recommendations. More hospitals need to establish residency programs. If hospitals can have medical residency programs than they can establish pharmacy programs.
You forget one very important thing with regards to medical residencies, most of those are paid by CMS. Hospitals have to pay for pharmacy residents.
 

sakigt

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It's a lot more likely that PGY-1's would become a "requirement" to work as a staff hospital pharmacist than for residency-trained pharmacists to go unhired due increases in residency programs.

I guess theoretically if you increased the residency programs too dramatically you could eventually saturate all the staff hospital positions w/ PGY-1-trained pharmacists, but I don't think that's what you were talking about.
Would experience working in a hospital compare with a PGY-1?
 

p-rog

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I heard 7 years of staffing compares to 1 year of residency.
:smuggrin::smuggrin::smuggrin:

I don't know what the real number of years working in a hospital= PGY-1 residency, but I think most people would agree it's not a 1:1 ratio. But don't get it wrong, PGY-1 is not currently a requirement for a staff hospital position by any means. I've met several hospital pharmacists who say they don't see the point in requiring a PGY-1 and look to hire new grads. That's really more a reflection of the fact that they don't get a lot of residency trained pharmacists applying for jobs at their hospitals and they find it easier to train you after they hire you than to try to recruit residency trained RPh's. IF residency spots increased, the only natural progression would be for more PGY-1's working as staff pharmacist, eventually edging out all the new grads for those positions over time.
 
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Moxxie

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I heard 7 years of staffing compares to 1 year of residency.
:eek: I've heard more along the lines of 2-3 years. I know that at least one of the residencies that I interviewed with counted the time in a residency as 2 years employment vs. 1 if you signed on with them after completing their residency, but that was specific to their program.
 

Silvermist

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But don't get it wrong, PGY-1 is not currently a requirement for a staff hospital position by any means.
In my area, it is slowly starting to move that way. Adverts for staff positions now will occasionally list a PGY-1 among the "requirements," and increasingly also for the "preferred" qualifications.
 
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my buddy whose is dop at a hospital says they consider 1 yr of residency = to 3 yrs of work experience....he also says he knows some who consider it up to 5 yrs of experience too
 

rxforlife2004

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my buddy whose is dop at a hospital says they consider 1 yr of residency = to 3 yrs of work experience....he also says he knows some who consider it up to 5 yrs of experience too
False. I'll hire someone who has 2 yrs of working in hospital as a pharmacist vs a PGY1 grad at any heartbeat!
 

Jetninjin

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False. I'll hire someone who has 2 yrs of working in hospital as a pharmacist vs a PGY1 grad at any heartbeat!
Um who are you again? You're not even a pharmacist or a student, you said in another post that you dropped out. So I don't think you're in a position to be hiring much of anyone based on your other assertions.
 

Pharmacy Kid

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Um who are you again? You're not even a pharmacist or a student, you said in another post that you dropped out. So I don't think you're in a position to be hiring much of anyone based on your other assertions.
Awww, snap!
 

sakigt

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my buddy whose is dop at a hospital says they consider 1 yr of residency = to 3 yrs of work experience....he also says he knows some who consider it up to 5 yrs of experience too
Im just wondering because I was recently hired on as a PRN Hospital Tech and the Pharmacy Manager basically said its more like a 4 year interview for me. I was just wondering that if this whole residency required for Clin Pharmacists happens, if someone like a Staff Pharmacist like me (if thats the direction I go) would be affected.

Not counting my chickens before they hatch, just making sure Im going about building my work experience the correct way.
 

rrr10

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Yes, 1 year residency is = to about 3 years experience. Having completed residency and worked several years in an academic hospital myself, I can tell you this is correct. I felt like I did 3 years worth of work (definitely more than 1 yr) in one year when resident. My current institution counted it as 3 years. I have been in practice as a clinical pharmacist for 5 years.
 
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Farmercyst

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Yes, 1 year residency is = to about 3+ years experience. Having completed residency and worked several years in an academic hospital myself, I can tell you this is correct. I felt like I did 3+ years worth of work in one year when resident.
It varies depending on what the DOP of the institution feels like. If you look at all the input you've got from 2-5 years. I've heard 2-3 the most, but it varies depending on who's on the other side of the application more than anything.
 

KARM12

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i am a college dropped out , but i know enough to hire/not hire a pharmacist. And while u here whining and bitcching about residency....i recommend u do some network and be nice to college dropped out like me...:laugh:.

Just personally experience, I hired a post PGY-1 for a clinical job and she couldnt even handle staffing for one day!!!! she was so overwhelming and made so many mistakes....while later, we decided to hire a 2 yrs experience pharmacist and let him do the clinical work after. It went very smoothly.

I need someone to work for me, not to look pretty...bottom line. Sure, there are sharp post residents out there...but experiences are more valuable!!!
How are you making hiring decisions for clinical positions if you aren't even a pharmacist? That is usually managed by a clinical coordinator.
 

p-rog

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i am a college dropped out , but i know enough to hire/not hire a pharmacist. And while u here whining and bitcching about residency....i recommend u do some network and be nice to college dropped out like me...:laugh:.

Just personally experience, I hired a post PGY-1 for a clinical job and she couldnt even handle staffing for one day!!!! she was so overwhelming and made so many mistakes....while later, we decided to hire a 2 yrs experience pharmacist and let him do the clinical work after. It went very smoothly.

I need someone to work for me, not to look pretty...bottom line. Sure, there are sharp post residents out there...but experiences are more valuable!!!

:thumbdown: obvious troll is obvious.
 

rxforlife2004

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How are you making hiring decisions for clinical positions if you aren't even a pharmacist? That is usually managed by a clinical coordinator.
exactly...the term "usually"...I'm the exceptional one..get it?
 

Jetninjin

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exactly...the term "usually"...I'm the exceptional one..get it?
Wow I understand your posts a lot better now.

I understand the bitterness you show towards the pharmacy profession and up-and-coming pharmacists. I totally get why you hate on people who get into good schools and do well enough to get into residencies. And why you hate on people with enthusiasm and hope. It makes a lot more sense why you try to bash everyone's expectations and make the field and everyone in it seem so hopeless.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you feel bad about yourself and your issues so you are bashing others' achievements in the field where you had problems. Every achievement they post about on here makes you feel worse, so you try to even it out by making pharmacy seem horrible and pharmacists like people who are making a huge mistake with their lives and are powerless pawns.

I'm not bashing you for it but really dude, you should get over it. It's sad that you feel this way, and that you act this way.
 

emogrrrrl

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I have not read all of the posts, but I can tell you from my own personal experience- PGY-1 is NOT enough to work a truly clinical position anymore (ie clinical specialist, whether it's in internal medicine or critical care, etc). Those positions will not consider you unless you have a PGY-2 or some other additional training or certifications, ie fellowship, BCPS, etc. The bright future that once was for clinical pharmacists is becoming very bleak. There are way too many pharmacy schools opening up and graduating students that has quickly lead to the close of the pharmacist shortage. Pharmacists are currently being laid off in some states. Even PGY-2's are coming up short in the job market, ie there aren't enough clinical positions out there to support the number of people coming out of training. Whether it's due to the economy or simply there just aren't enough pharmacy departments that are evolved enough to support these clinical specialist positions. If you only plan on doing a PGY-1 you might as well just take a staffing position at a hospital straight out of school, b/c that is what you will end up doing any way. The key is going to be differentiating yourself from the masses of other residency trained pharmacists and thinking outside of the box we now call "clinical pharmacy".

Best of luck.

Em
 

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I have not read all of the posts, but I can tell you from my own personal experience- PGY-1 is NOT enough to work a truly clinical position anymore (ie clinical specialist, whether it's in internal medicine or critical care, etc). Those positions will not consider you unless you have a PGY-2 or some other additional training or certifications, ie fellowship, BCPS, etc. The bright future that once was for clinical pharmacists is becoming very bleak. There are way too many pharmacy schools opening up and graduating students that has quickly lead to the close of the pharmacist shortage. Pharmacists are currently being laid off in some states. Even PGY-2's are coming up short in the job market, ie there aren't enough clinical positions out there to support the number of people coming out of training. Whether it's due to the economy or simply there just aren't enough pharmacy departments that are evolved enough to support these clinical specialist positions. If you only plan on doing a PGY-1 you might as well just take a staffing position at a hospital straight out of school, b/c that is what you will end up doing any way. The key is going to be differentiating yourself from the masses of other residency trained pharmacists and thinking outside of the box we now call "clinical pharmacy".

Best of luck.

Em
Agreed. The chances of only doing a PGY1 residency and then becoming a clinical specialist are very slim. It may still be possible in certain geographical areas, but it is not the norm. For example...there are at least 50 PGY2 trained critical care pharmacists finishing each year. Are there 50 positions for these pharmacist each year on top of those aready working in these areas? Eventually these numbers will catch up, if they haven't already. The advertisements for clinical specialists are getting fewer in number.
 

blissful

Removed
Apr 11, 2010
7
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Pharmacist
It is becoming that way. PGY1 residencies are not as much of a differentiator as they were a few years ago. It's the result of pharmacy schools encouraging their students to get residencies. I think there will be a lot of pharmacists down the road who will not want to be in staffing roles (there already are) because they are over-trained for many positions.

I'm afraid of residency becoming an item on the checklist, too. I'd be in favor of condensing P1-P3 years (I honestly feel as though my P1 year has been a lot of review) and incorporating aspects of residency into rotations, which could be lengthened. Just my wishful thinking.
 

rxforlife2004

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Wow I understand your posts a lot better now.

I understand the bitterness you show towards the pharmacy profession and up-and-coming pharmacists. I totally get why you hate on people who get into good schools and do well enough to get into residencies. And why you hate on people with enthusiasm and hope. It makes a lot more sense why you try to bash everyone's expectations and make the field and everyone in it seem so hopeless.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you feel bad about yourself and your issues so you are bashing others' achievements in the field where you had problems. Every achievement they post about on here makes you feel worse, so you try to even it out by making pharmacy seem horrible and pharmacists like people who are making a huge mistake with their lives and are powerless pawns.

I'm not bashing you for it but really dude, you should get over it. It's sad that you feel this way, and that you act this way.
LOL....such an idiot. I don't need to be bitter about anything. I am just pointing out the fact about pharmacy school, the demand vs. supply so that other students know what they get themselves into before too late.
 
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rxforlife2004

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:thumbup:
I have not read all of the posts, but I can tell you from my own personal experience- PGY-1 is NOT enough to work a truly clinical position anymore (ie clinical specialist, whether it's in internal medicine or critical care, etc). Those positions will not consider you unless you have a PGY-2 or some other additional training or certifications, ie fellowship, BCPS, etc. The bright future that once was for clinical pharmacists is becoming very bleak. There are way too many pharmacy schools opening up and graduating students that has quickly lead to the close of the pharmacist shortage. Pharmacists are currently being laid off in some states. Even PGY-2's are coming up short in the job market, ie there aren't enough clinical positions out there to support the number of people coming out of training. Whether it's due to the economy or simply there just aren't enough pharmacy departments that are evolved enough to support these clinical specialist positions. If you only plan on doing a PGY-1 you might as well just take a staffing position at a hospital straight out of school, b/c that is what you will end up doing any way. The key is going to be differentiating yourself from the masses of other residency trained pharmacists and thinking outside of the box we now call "clinical pharmacy".

Best of luck.

Em
eXACTLY!
 

Nupe954

Make it happen
Oct 18, 2009
193
0
Orlando, FL
Status
Pharmacy Student
Um who are you again? You're not even a pharmacist or a student, you said in another post that you dropped out. So I don't think you're in a position to be hiring much of anyone based on your other assertions.

Classic: "Um who are you again?" :laugh:
 

ghent96

PharmD
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Mar 30, 2007
37
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What's the point of us earning a "Doctorate" in Pharmacy, if we have to go to further schooling for a job? None. Residencies are a joke, atm.

Residencies steal a potential job from a pharmacist, because the student is working for "free", paying tuition to the school, and the school is paying the site.

Residencies send us deeper in debt rather than earning a salary, and no better experience than 2-3 years of working.

The current president (Obama) and most of the dominant party (Democrats) already believe there are too many doctors and pharmacists, and have little to no concern for expanding our numbers. Especially with the down economy right now, there is going to be a glut of pharmacists without enough jobs in the very near future. This might tempt more to prolong their education, but still... the jobs aren't going to be there. Establishing more residencies takes a LOT of time and bureaucracy, much more than 10 years. (2020) Creating jobs will likely take just as long also, sadly, unless our government takes a very big turn from its present course.
 

Argentium

10+ Year Member
Jan 24, 2009
379
57
Status
Pharmacy Student
What's the point of us earning a "Doctorate" in Pharmacy, if we have to go to further schooling for a job? None. Residencies are a joke, atm.

Residencies steal a potential job from a pharmacist, because the student is working for "free", paying tuition to the school, and the school is paying the site.

Residencies send us deeper in debt rather than earning a salary, and no better experience than 2-3 years of working.

The current president (Obama) and most of the dominant party (Democrats) already believe there are too many doctors and pharmacists, and have little to no concern for expanding our numbers. Especially with the down economy right now, there is going to be a glut of pharmacists without enough jobs in the very near future. This might tempt more to prolong their education, but still... the jobs aren't going to be there. Establishing more residencies takes a LOT of time and bureaucracy, much more than 10 years. (2020) Creating jobs will likely take just as long also, sadly, unless our government takes a very big turn from its present course.
Do you know what you're talking about at all?
 

RxWildcat

Julius Randle BEASTMODE!
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Mar 25, 2008
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What's the point of us earning a "Doctorate" in Pharmacy, if we have to go to further schooling for a job? None. Residencies are a joke, atm.

Residencies steal a potential job from a pharmacist, because the student is working for "free", paying tuition to the school, and the school is paying the site.

Residencies send us deeper in debt rather than earning a salary, and no better experience than 2-3 years of working...
Strong words from someone who thinks pharmacists should prescribe and MDs should only diagnose...
Whats the point of earning a "Doctorate" in Medicine, if you have to go to further schooling for a job? :rolleyes: