120k loans vs full ride

[somsoup]

Hi,

Just wanted to get some feedback on a weird situation. I am possibly going to get a full ride+stipend scholarship from my state school but I am also strongly considering attending an Ivy that will put me in at least 120k in debt after need based grants (if I'm lucky).

The reason I'm considering the Ivy is because my partner is potentially moving to the area to work for this school. It's also a lovely school and I really felt it'd be a good fit.

My gut tells me it's worth it to go into debt (which is hopefully less than the median national average of private school indebtedness) to have a good social/living situation. I feel like I am ready to leave NYC... It's just way too stressful a place to live for me and partner both. However I am very nervous about passing up a significant scholarship opportunity. Thank you in advance for your insights

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[DoctorSynthesis]

Hi,

Just wanted to get some feedback on a weird situation. I am possibly going to get a full ride+stipend scholarship from my state school but I am also strongly considering attending an Ivy that will put me in at least 120k in debt after need based grants (if I'm lucky).

The reason I'm considering the Ivy is because my partner is potentially moving to the area to work for this school. It's also a lovely school and I really felt it'd be a good fit.

My gut tells me it's worth it to go into debt (which is hopefully less than the median national average of private school indebtedness) to have a good social/living situation. I feel like I am ready to leave NYC... It's just way too stressful a place to live for me and partner both. However I am very nervous about passing up a significant scholarship opportunity. Thank you in advance for your insights

Probably would go with the free ride. Your reasons for wanting to go to the ivy isn't strong enough to pass up a full ride IMO.

 

[JustAPhD]

120K is a lot of money to put med school debt on top of. What state school and what Ivy?

 

[hydroxyurea]

Do you know what field(s) you want to go into? Does the ivy have a significant advantage in resources in that field or fields?

You can go to nearly any US MD school and get into nearly any specialty if you are self-driven and rock step1, though if you have a particular research topic you want to pursue, that would be a factor.

Is your partner long-term?

 

[somsoup]

120K is a lot of money to put med school debt on top of. What state school and what Ivy?

Thanks, I think my perspective is skewing what these numbers really mean. I sent you a pm with the school names (sorry I'm paranoid). The scholarship is only a maybe anyway. I do have another full ride offer form another private school and it's in NY but I think the same issue kind of applies.

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

The Ivy has a lot of Ifs attached.
If everything goes as you hope id go to the Ivy.

Why not wait until traffic day and see if things get a little more clear?

 

[NonTrad16]

I think many will say: "Just name the schools..."

Regardless (to me), I'd wait to 1) see if you can get your financial information, and 2) confirm your partner has a job before making the decision. $120k in debt isn't great, but is well below the average (~250k?, including the ~25% percent with family support/full rides that have near-zero debt). Depending on their job, relocating can be a nuisance, and living apart (if you intend on staying together) could be rough over a long term.

 

[somsoup]

Do you know what field(s) you want to go into? Does the ivy have a significant advantage in resources in that field or fields?

You can go to nearly any US MD school and get into nearly any specialty if you are self-driven and rock step1, though if you have a particular research topic you want to pursue, that would be a factor.

Is your partner long-term?

No field preference, both schools are strong in Primary Care which is where I'm leaning towards but I really don't know. I agree with the whole "education is what you make of it" standpoint so I don't really care where I go so long as in the end I can do what I do well. I would consider living in this other state permanently as well.

I don't have any research interests right now but will likely develop one once I start school.

Partner is long term.

 

[bumblebee611]

Hi,

Just wanted to get some feedback on a weird situation. I am possibly going to get a full ride+stipend scholarship from my state school but I am also strongly considering attending an Ivy that will put me in at least 120k in debt after need based grants (if I'm lucky).

The reason I'm considering the Ivy is because my partner is potentially moving to the area to work for this school. It's also a lovely school and I really felt it'd be a good fit.

My gut tells me it's worth it to go into debt (which is hopefully less than the median national average of private school indebtedness) to have a good social/living situation. I feel like I am ready to leave NYC... It's just way too stressful a place to live for me and partner both. However I am very nervous about passing up a significant scholarship opportunity. Thank you in advance for your insights

I think from the fact that you are referring to your partner moving for work etc. that you must be talking about med school, not undergrad? Some of these responses seem to be addressing your question as if it's undergrad. Assuming it's med school, I would consider a few things: (1) how much undergraduate or other debt do you already have? (2) what kind of career do you dream of having? Will the Ivy give you opportunities in that regard that your state school may not? (3) related to (2), how strong is your state school versus the Ivy? (3) How much did you simply prefer the Ivy to the state school (location, feel, curriculum, etc.)? and of course (4) Do you see yourself spending your life with your partner? If so, does your partner view the future the same way and SHOW it through more than words e.g. consider your interests and goals in making future plans, sharing expenses to some appropriate extent, behaving generously in a way that shows an investment in a future together, clarifying together that you share a vision for your future (kids? suburbs or city? etc.)

Without knowing the answers to these questions, it's tough to say. But if it were me, if you think the Ivy offers really any substantial gain over your state school in terms of opportunities and your personal happiness, it seems totally worth $120K debt. I'm an old person and I went to law school in a better era and paying down $120K on a decent salary, as long as you live reasonably modestly, is not that difficult, especially if you pay it off before you have kids.

 

[somsoup]

I think from the fact that you are referring to your partner moving for work etc. that you must be talking about med school, not undergrad? Some of these responses seem to be addressing your question as if it's undergrad. Assuming it's med school, I would consider a few things: (1) how much undergraduate or other debt do you already have? (2) what kind of career do you dream of having? Will the Ivy give you opportunities in that regard that your state school may not? (3) related to (2), how strong is your state school versus the Ivy? (3) How much did you simply prefer the Ivy to the state school (location, feel, curriculum, etc.)? and of course (4) Do you see yourself spending your life with your partner? If so, does your partner view the future the same way and SHOW it through more than words e.g. consider your interests and goals in making future plans, sharing expenses to some appropriate extent, behaving generously in a way that shows an investment in a future together, clarifying together that you share a vision for your future (kids? suburbs or city? etc.)

Without knowing the answers to these questions, it's tough to say. But if it were me, if you think the Ivy offers really any substantial gain over your state school in terms of opportunities and your personal happiness, it seems totally worth $120K debt. I'm an old person and I went to law school in a better era and paying down $120K on a decent salary, as long as you live reasonably modestly, is not that difficult, especially if you pay it off before you have kids.

Thanks so much for your reply,

It's is med school.

1. Zero UG debt.

2. I don't have a dream career envisioned yet lol. I wish I knew where I'd be in 10 years but I am not sure yet. I don't see differences in terms of opportunity cost but that's just because I feel fine having graduated from a small LAC already. It'd be exciting to be honest to go to a supposedly fancy school but it's not a priority.

3. I'd say the state school vs ivy are about the same. But I have no idea what I'm talking about, this is just personal opinion. I don't really know if I can go by USNWR rankings or anything.

3a?. I simply preferred the private school more, I can't with NYC anymore. But I'm not sure if that's a legitimate reason to choose a school over the other. I feels I could get an equally excellent education at both institutions.

4. Our relationship is permanent as far as we can both tell but he really wants to relocate.

Thanks for the pearls of wisdom!

 

[TallPreMed]

Free ride vs 6 figure debt... I know which one I would pick.

 

[somsoup]

I think many will say: "Just name the schools..."

Regardless (to me), I'd wait to 1) see if you can get your financial information, and 2) confirm your partner has a job before making the decision. $120k in debt isn't great, but is well below the average (~250k?, including the ~25% percent with family support/full rides that have near-zero debt). Depending on their job, relocating can be a nuisance, and living apart (if you intend on staying together) could be rough over a long term.

I will definitely wait to see if my partner will have that job, that's true. That is how I'm looking at the debt as well, though the figure I heard is around 180k indebtedness (median), average might be as you say,bin the 200's.

My perspective is that yes, living apart will be almost a death sentence for me, I unfortunately became somewhat dependent on having my best friend with me everywhere I am, but maybe I'll have to tough it out for 4 years :-x to save $$.

 

[somsoup]

The Ivy has a lot of Ifs attached.
If everything goes as you hope id go to the Ivy.

Why not wait until traffic day and see if things get a little more clear?

I will wait for traffic day regardless. I am still waiting on some decisions anyway, but whenever this thought comes up I'm like "agh I can think about this later!!" But I realize I'm just putting off thinking about an important decision.. Anyway you SDNers are smart and your advice has helped me a ton in the past so I was curious too

 

[TallPreMed]

I will definitely wait to see if my partner will have that job, that's true. That is how I'm looking at the debt as well, though the figure I heard is around 180k indebtedness (median), average might be as you say,bin the 200's.

My perspective is that yes, living apart will be almost a death sentence for me, I unfortunately became somewhat dependent on having my best friend with me everywhere I am, but maybe I'll have to tough it out for 4 years :-x to save $$.

If I get into med school, there is about a 90% chance that I will have to live separate from my fiancé. (At that point he will be my husband). the way I see it, if our relationship can't work over a long distance, then it's not worth it. I've been in a LDR with someone across the country before and the reason it failed is due to lack of effort.

You do realize you won't be able to see said best friend all day every day once you matriculate, right?

 

[somsoup]

Probably would go with the free ride. Your reasons for wanting to go to the ivy isn't strong enough to pass up a full ride IMO.

Yeah I think I'll have to have a serious talk with the Mr. Thanks

 

[somsoup]

If I get into med school, there is about a 90% chance that I will have to live separate from my fiancé. (At that point he will be my husband). the way I see it, if our relationship can't work over a long distance, then it's not worth it. I've been in a LDR with someone across the country before and the reason it failed is due to lack of effort.

You do realize you won't be able to see said best friend all day every day once you matriculate, right?

That's true, and he actually would rather have me go to school for free. I just feel this weird nag that I will need some sort of support system. This might be a "can't have your cake and eat it too" type of situation.

Re: LDRs, I've had one too before but promised myself I'd never do it again just because my experience was so horrible. I think with my current SO I could, I just know I'd be pretty unhappy with the set up. It's probably survivable though. Hope what I wrote made sense.

 

[Goro]

Have you been accepted to both places? Don't put your eggs in one basket if things are still pending.

I'd advise my kids to go for the free ride.

Hi,

Just wanted to get some feedback on a weird situation. I am possibly going to get a full ride+stipend scholarship from my state school but I am also strongly considering attending an Ivy that will put me in at least 120k in debt after need based grants (if I'm lucky).

The reason I'm considering the Ivy is because my partner is potentially moving to the area to work for this school. It's also a lovely school and I really felt it'd be a good fit.

My gut tells me it's worth it to go into debt (which is hopefully less than the median national average of private school indebtedness) to have a good social/living situation. I feel like I am ready to leave NYC... It's just way too stressful a place to live for me and partner both. However I am very nervous about passing up a significant scholarship opportunity. Thank you in advance for your insights

 

[somsoup]

Have you been accepted to both places? Don't put your eggs in one basket if things are still pending.

I'd advise my kids to go for the free ride.

Hi Goro!

I have been accepted to both.

Thank you for your advice!!

 

[Germanicus89]

If it were me I would go free ride.

 

[idkididk]

This might be a dumb question, but how does anyone get a full ride through medical school (except for military or primary care commitment)?

Aren't scholarships very rare? I thought most students are expected to take out loans for the majority of the cost..

 

[Psai]

ivy. you don't even have a free ride yet so it's a hypothetical

 

[bumblebee611]

I wouldn't worry about the money that much because many medical students take out far more debt for medical school and come out very financially secure. Based on the fact that you have little undergraduate debt, I wouldn't let a little debt for medical school keep you from enjoying medical school.

Totally agree--it isn't just about moving for her SO, it's also the place she herself preferred. And even if it were just about moving to stay with her SO, as long as it's a compromise/mutual decision by two people mature and committed enough to make that decision together, I see nothing wrong with it. I don't understand people who are just saying "no debt!" and placing no value on OP's desire not to basically break up with her partner. (Yes, I get that some people swing LDRs, but that doesn't mean everyone should, or that if a relationship can't withstand long distance, it's not worth having.)

 

[Mansamusa]

No undergrad debt, full-ride to med school/Ivy med, and a long term relationship? So jealous. Congrats!

I have nothing useful to add, but good luck with your decision

 

[PugsAndHugs]

My perspective is that yes, living apart will be almost a death sentence for me, I unfortunately became somewhat dependent on having my best friend with me

Ugh, I know exactly how you feel. Unlike most people here, I would say be close to your significant other during medical school. It's a tough time and I think having your main support system with you through it will help tremendously. My SO has become a major deciding factor on where I want to go to medical school.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I'd rather be happy with debt than unhappy without. If you think it will make a significant difference in that respect Id take the loans and do the ivy. If not I would take the cheaper route

 

[darkjedi]

People on SDN tend to underplay the importance of solid faculty at top-tier schools. Unfortuantely the word "Ivy" is not that helpful for med schools, because you could be talking about a #1 school or a #30. UCSF would be a far superior school than say Brown or Dartmouth, despite it's Ivy status. This is why people are telling you to just name the school, because otherwise you're giving us nothing to work with in order to give you advice.

Depending on what you want to do, going to a school with strong departments and faculty goes a very long way in helping you land in a field you like. Despite what some SDNers think, it is not just all about your Step 1 scores and class rank.

 

[sliceofbread136]

People on SDN tend to underplay the importance of solid faculty at top-tier schools. Unfortuantely the word "Ivy" is not that helpful for med schools, because you could be talking about a #1 school or a #30. UCSF would be a far superior school than say Brown or Dartmouth, despite it's Ivy status. This is why people are telling you to just name the school, because otherwise you're giving us nothing to work with in order to give you advice.

Depending on what you want to do, going to a school with strong departments and faculty goes a very long way in helping you land in a field you like. Despite what some SDNers think, it is not just all about your Step 1 scores and class rank.

Ya but the difference in schools is fairly overshadowed by your own individual efforts and merits. In my opinion if it just comes down to better faculty/prestige versus $120k I would pick the lower price. Your mileage may vary of course

 

[bumblebee611]

Depending on what you want to do, going to a school with strong departments and faculty goes a very long way in helping you land in a field you like. Despite what some SDNers think, it is not just all about your Step 1 scores and class rank.

Related to this, I noticed that OP said she went to a small LAC and she was happy with it and didn't particularly see the need to go somewhere big and fancy. I'd add that if she hasn't experienced what a major research university has to offer, she might not know or understand what she's missing or even what she should try to compare between "Ivy" and "state school."

 

[bc65]

Relationships come and go, but if this is a long term relationship, I wouldn't stress it by being apart. Plenty of strong marriages have collapsed under the stress of distance. So, if your partner is there, definitely pay the 120k.

Anyway, $120 k is not a lot of debt. I would take on $120k of debt to be at a school and in a location that would potentially make me happier.

You should be able to match into primary care regardless of which school you go to, but a career in primary care would also make 120k in debt a bit more significant, but still manageable. For competitive specialties, a higher ranked school might make it a bit easier, but that benefit may be small and is difficult to quantify.

If I understood you correctly, you referred to NYC and a state school. If that's the case, you're talking about Downstate. You will probably get a fine education there, but unless things have changed a lot since I was last there, and it might have, I would not want to live and work in that area. I would gladly pay 120k to be somewhere else, especially if I didn't feel tied to NYC. On the other hand, you mentioned a free ride from another NY school. That sounds better to me than Downstate, at least if the school is one of the ones in Manhattan or the Bronx. I would take that over Downstate in a heartbeat regardless of cost.

 

[dreamadream]

I'd pick 120K in debt. Seems reasonable.

 

[68PGunner]

Take that $120k debt. Your debt will be forgiven anyway as a primary care provider.

 

[Nerdeka]

I'd pick 120K in debt. Seems reasonable.

?
Aren't you taking a semester off because of a grand or two? Multiply that by 120.

 

[dreamadream]

?
Aren't you taking a semester off because of a grand or two? Multiply that by 120.

I was about to take a semester off because of $500 due. My moms said she will pay for it, so I am going to school I just don't know if the seats for the classes I need to take will be filled or not. Thanks very much.

 

[Nerdeka]

I was about to take a semester off because of $500 due. My moms said she will pay for it, so I am going to school I just don't know if the seats for the classes I need to take will be filled or not. Thanks very much.

Yes, so you should know the struggle of $$ better than anyone and not sneeze at 120k. I am paying 240k for my undergrad and if I could do it again, I would not take that debt on if I could just go for free.

 

[Mad Jack]

This strongly depends- the state school is probably the better bet if you're 1,000% set on med school, but the Ivy will provide you with infinitely more opportunities if you can't make the cut to get into med school...

Hell, I'd go Ivy, but that's just because I know the sort of opportunities an Ivy degree can get you outside of medicine. If you want to be a doctor, it's a tough call though.

 

[Mad Jack]

Yes, so you should know the struggle of $$ better than anyone and not sneeze at 120k. I am paying 240k for my undergrad and if I could do it again, I would not take that debt on if I could just go for free.

wtf, how does one spend 240k on undergrad?!?!?!?!?! That is absolutely insane.

 

[justadream]

Even if you don't want to name the school, at least name the "general tier" of the Ivy (e.g., top 10, top 20, top 30). There's a significant difference between HMS and Dartmouth.

You should do the same for the state school.

 

[justadream]

wtf, how does one spend 240k on undergrad?!?!?!?!?! That is absolutely insane.

Most private schools cost at least 60k/year. And if you are too wealthy for need-based aid and your parents don't want to foot the bill, well...

 

[Nerdeka]

Look up the tuition at top schools bruh. That being said, I did get some academic scholarships, but I did not qualify for aid from the school.

wtf, how does one spend 240k on undergrad?!?!?!?!?! That is absolutely insane.

 

[Mad Jack]

Most private schools cost at least 60k/year. And if you are too wealthy for need-based aid and your parents don't want to foot the bill, well...

 

[Mad Jack]

Look up the tuition at top schools bruh. That being said, I did get some academic scholarships, but I did not qualify for aid from the school.

It's more the lack of common sense that goes along with taking out that level of undergrad loans.

 

[Nerdeka]

It's more the lack of common sense that goes along with taking out that level of undergrad loans.

I didn't, along with scholarships + parents, I barely took out as much as my friends that went to other schools.

 

[BluMist]

common sense is not common, unfortunately
Most people just coming out of high school have no concept of $. I know I didn't. Fortunately for me, the cheapest option was actually the one farthest away from parents

It's more the lack of common sense that goes along with taking out that level of undergrad loans.

 

[Mad Jack]

I didn't, along with scholarships + parents, I barely took out as much as my friends that went to other schools.

Ah, that's different. I thought you were saying you had 240k in debt lol. I mean, my education probably would have cost me 100k+ without scholarships and grants, but I played it smart, so it only cost me 24k.

 

[frosted_flake]

Yes, so you should know the struggle of $$ better than anyone and not sneeze at 120k. I am paying 240k for my undergrad and if I could do it again, I would not take that debt on if I could just go for free.

what in the name of God would you pay that much for UG for???? I would die...
EDIT: @Mad Jack beat me to it!

 

[Nerdeka]

Ah, that's different. I thought you were saying you had 240k in debt lol. I mean, my education probably would have cost me 100k+ without scholarships and grants, but I played it smart, so it only cost me 24k.

Yeah! Sorry I should have rephrased that. I see the pros, but they don't outweigh the cons. I want to shake 17 year old me, but I wouldn't listen anyways.

 

[Tenk]

Free ride for sure.

 

[WedgeDawg]

It's hard to give advice if you aren't more specific about the schools.

I would personally pass up the free ride for a school like Penn or Yale, but probably not for Dartmouth. Also if the public school is like UCLA or something, then definitely go with that. There are too many variables unaccounted for in this equation for us to adequately advise you.

However -

Harvard, Yale, Columbia, and Penn haven't given out acceptances yet, so it can't be those. You also say it's not in NYC so that rules out Cornell.

That leaves us with Dartmouth or Brown.

Now, just knowing Dartmouth/Brown vs. generic state school, my gut instinct is state school; however, you have expressed reasons why you would rather be at the Ivy (SO, QOL, etc). If you think your quality of life will be significantly better at the Ivy despite the debt, I would go Ivy. QOL and a support system during med school are invaluable.

Just my 2c.

 

[somsoup]

This might be a dumb question, but how does anyone get a full ride through medical school (except for military or primary care commitment)?

Aren't scholarships very rare? I thought most students are expected to take out loans for the majority of the cost..

It's a merit scholarship, but I think only some schools even have them. Others give a lot of partial scholarships and some just do need based grants. I think the most common method however is military and PC commitment as you said, someone can sore throat if I'm wrong.

 

[somsoup]

Related to this, I noticed that OP said she went to a small LAC and she was happy with it and didn't particularly see the need to go somewhere big and fancy. I'd add that if she hasn't experienced what a major research university has to offer, she might not know or understand what she's missing or even what she should try to compare between "Ivy" and "state school."

Thanks for putting into words my primary confusion. My inexperience with what a big research school has to offer is making this a confusing time. Anyway, the ivy I'm referring to which people have deduced anyway is not like a top 5 or anything (I think, I don't understand what ratings people are using). In this particular situation the main difference is the debt. I think I'd get a similar quality education at both schools but I'd be "happier" at the ivy because I'd be living with my boyfriend.