$180,000 NP Salary starting?!?

[DrMaccoman]

Hey folks,
I was scrolling through the nursing forums and I saw one about NP salary.

http://allnurses.com/nurse-practitioners-np/what-is-your-846768.html

How in the world is it that they make so much? Some are Easily clearing 200k... I thought the average was around $90,000. Look at the below example for a newly minted NP 2 years out of their 2 year long master program. They are easily making more than your typical pediatrician with such low hours.

What type NP are you? Family but currently do geriatrics/house calls
Where (state)(rural/urban) do you practice? San Diego, California
Are you independent or in a group?independent contractor within a small group
How many years experience? 2
What is your before tax paycheck amount? $180,000 this year projected
Monthly or bi-weekly? biweekly
Salary/hourly/other(explain)? average 30-35 hours a week plus once a month on call for pager
Avg hours on check? 30-35, i get paid 51% of gross revenues that I bring into the practice, not hourly based
What are the perks of your contract? (ie. PTO/vacation/bonuses) the group pays for half of my health insurance premium and a have a medical assistant that drives me to appointments in a company provided vehicle

Here is another one:

Nov 28 by resilientnurse
What type NP are you? PMHNP
Where (state)(rural/urban) do you practice? Midwest, Urban
Are you independent or in a group? Group
How many years experience? 2 months
What is your before tax paycheck amount? $5600.00
Monthly or bi-weekly? Biweekly
Salary/hourly/other(explain)? Salary, $145,600.00
Avg hours on check? 80 (really like 72-75 actually worked)
​

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[Averagemanboy]

.

 

[The Kraken]

Cherry picking people reporting (on an Internet forum) +1 or +2sd above mean starting NP salaries and comparing to lowest paying physicians. Yes NPs will make 6 figures, no it's not changing and yes the current studies show they provide equivalent primary care compared to physicians despite whatever anecdotes people say in NP threads posted on the Allopathic subforum. And yes, they like to specialize and not practice rural primary care. I don't think I've missed anything that gets hashed out in NP threads, but I'm sure there's something else I missed.

 

[NoTownPreMed]

Working as a nurse for quite some time now, I can tell you that these numbers aren't really surprising. Our seasoned nursing supervisors make a hair under $165k pre-tax just working their scheduled shifts ($70/hr, 7 shifts/12 hours plus 1.5x after 8 hrs) in California. If money was the primary reason, I would have definitely chosen that route long ago.

 

[cbrons]

Cherry picking people reporting (on an Internet forum) +1 or +2sd above mean starting NP salaries and comparing to lowest paying physicians. Yes NPs will make 6 figures, no it's not changing and yes the current studies show they provide equivalent primary care compared to physicians despite whatever anecdotes people say in NP threads posted on the Allopathic subforum. And yes, they like to specialize and not practice rural primary care. I don't think I've missed anything that gets hashed out in NP threads, but I'm sure there's something else I missed.

Not necessarily disagreeing but have you seen any of those studies that werent sponsored by nursing associations?

Working as a nurse for quite some time now, I can tell you that these numbers aren't really surprising. Our seasoned nursing supervisors make a hair under $165k pre-tax just working their scheduled shifts ($70/hr, 7 shifts/12 hours plus 1.5x after 8 hrs) in California. If money was the primary reason, I would have definitely chosen that route long ago.

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[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

Wanna know something even more hilarious? Anti-physician laws like the Stark law don't apply to nurses. So not only can NPs make just about as much as physicians with pathetically inferior training and have similar scope of practice, but they can own specialty hospitals and other facilities that physicians are barred from owning by law. In other words, in states where NPs have full independent practice rights (soon to be all states), the ****ty online nursing degree gives you far more freedom of action in the medical field than the MD does.
http://www.thehealthcarelawyer.com/20-stark-law-facts/

It's infuriating. Something needs to be done about this nonsense. The more I learn about how badly doctors are being taken advantage of without so much as a peep of resistance, the more contempt I'm starting to have for my own future profession.

 

[Giovanotto]

.

 

[Law2Doc]

I know a lawyer who earns over a million dollars a year in a region where the average lawyer income is around $60,000. You can always find an outlier if you cherry pick. It's a meaningless data point. Statisticians just throw these outliers out when doing analysis and you should too. Doesn't happen with any statistical frequency.

 

[MatCauthon]

I know an NP that is easily making over 500k per year in private practice. His overhead is low and he focuses on things like functional medicine, nutrition, and sports medicine. He always tries to find niche items that patients in which patients are willing to pay cash. Not saying these treatments have great evidence, but the money is definitely there. I believe his next step is start hiring more NPs and opening a couple more clinics. He will probably be a millionaire soon.

 

[Promethean]

Working as a nurse for quite some time now, I can tell you that these numbers aren't really surprising. Our seasoned nursing supervisors make a hair under $165k pre-tax just working their scheduled shifts ($70/hr, 7 shifts/12 hours plus 1.5x after 8 hrs) in California. If money was the primary reason, I would have definitely chosen that route long ago.

I definitely took a life time earnings cut by choosing to go to medical school to be a primary care doctor.

My inbox and voicemail are full of offers ranging from $50-80/hr for 48 hr/wk guaranteed hours, +paid housing, travel, and car rental for 3 month contracts. (It is really painful, since right now I live in a shoebox, eat ramen, and can't afford to fix my car. On bad days, it definitely raises the temptation to bail on this whole med school nonsense!)

And that is for an RN, not an NP. Admittedly, an RN with a bunch of certs and specialist OR experience, but still... I can see how NPs could be pulling up near 200k, if they play their cards right... either doing travel assignments or else working their way into a practice where they share in the receipts, as in the example above.

 

[Promethean]

.

Residents aren't purely employees. They are also trainees. Part of their compensation is that they are gaining the education and experience needed to practice independently.

I'm not saying that resident salary shouldn't be higher, but that it doesn't work to compare their compensation to employees that aren't on the apprenticeship track. Apples and oranges.

 

[TaroBubbleTea]

Hey folks,
I was scrolling through the nursing forums and I saw one about NP salary.

http://allnurses.com/nurse-practitioners-np/what-is-your-846768.html

How in the world is it that they make so much? Some are Easily clearing 200k... I thought the average was around $90,000. Look at the below example for a newly minted NP 2 years out of their 2 year long master program. They are easily making more than your typical pediatrician with such low hours.

What type NP are you? Family but currently do geriatrics/house calls
Where (state)(rural/urban) do you practice? San Diego, California
Are you independent or in a group?independent contractor within a small group
How many years experience? 2
What is your before tax paycheck amount? $180,000 this year projected
Monthly or bi-weekly? biweekly
Salary/hourly/other(explain)? average 30-35 hours a week plus once a month on call for pager
Avg hours on check? 30-35, i get paid 51% of gross revenues that I bring into the practice, not hourly based
What are the perks of your contract? (ie. PTO/vacation/bonuses) the group pays for half of my health insurance premium and a have a medical assistant that drives me to appointments in a company provided vehicle

Here is another one:

Nov 28 by resilientnurse
What type NP are you? PMHNP
Where (state)(rural/urban) do you practice? Midwest, Urban
Are you independent or in a group? Group
How many years experience? 2 months
What is your before tax paycheck amount? $5600.00
Monthly or bi-weekly? Biweekly
Salary/hourly/other(explain)? Salary, $145,600.00
Avg hours on check? 80 (really like 72-75 actually worked)
​

First of all, what were you doing on a nursing forum?

Secondly, while I know these are statistical outliers, the fact that a medical practice would pay a midlevel physician-level salaries rather than hire a physician is beyond me.

 

[Promethean]

First of all, what were you doing on a nursing forum?

Secondly, while I know these are statistical outliers, the fact that a medical practice would pay a midlevel physician-level salaries rather than hire a physician is beyond me.

If the physicians aren't looking for those primary care clinic jobs, then they are going to have to pay midlevels whatever the market will bear.

 

[TaroBubbleTea]

If the physicians aren't looking for those primary care clinic jobs, then they are going to have to pay midlevels whatever the market will bear.

I must admit that my knowledge on this is a bit lacking, but I don't recall San Diego and the urban midwest being medically underserved areas hurting for PCPs.

 

[Slack3r]

There's an orthopedist at my hospital that clears, not exaggerating, $3million per year. They're called "outliers" for a reason.

 

[Mad Jack]

Wanna know something even more hilarious? Anti-physician laws like the Stark law don't apply to nurses. So not only can NPs make just about as much as physicians with pathetically inferior training and have similar scope of practice, but they can own specialty hospitals and other facilities that physicians are barred from owning by law. In other words, in states where NPs have full independent practice rights (soon to be all states), the ****ty online nursing degree gives you far more freedom of action in the medical field than the MD does.
http://www.thehealthcarelawyer.com/20-stark-law-facts/

It's infuriating. Something needs to be done about this nonsense. The more I learn about how badly doctors are being taken advantage of without so much as a peep of resistance, the more contempt I'm starting to have for my own future profession.

Whoa... This loophole could make you crazy money. Hire an NP, then have them refer to your in-house lab and services...

 

[Promethean]

I must admit that my knowledge on this is a bit lacking, but I don't recall San Diego and the urban midwest being medically underserved areas hurting for PCPs.

Underserved isn't the point. If that compensation level were really physician-level for that area, then physicians would be filling those jobs. If they can't attract a doc for what they are willing to pay, then it isn't a physician level salary. If that is what they need to offer to get a mid-level in the position, then, for that market, for that clinic, that is what midlevels cost.

 

[Promethean]

Whoa... This loophole could make you crazy money. Hire an NP, then have them refer to your in-house lab and services...

That could still come back to bite you, as the physician. You really want to read the law, or rather pay an attorney who has, before forging forward with that plan.

 

[Law2Doc]

That could still come back to bite you, as the physician. You really want to read the law, or rather pay an attorney who has, before forging forward with that plan.

Yeah you'd be the richest guy in your cell block if you tried this...

 

[Brahnold Bloodaxe]

Whoa... This loophole could make you crazy money. Hire an NP, then have them refer to your in-house lab and services...

That's precisely the infuriating thing. In states where NPs have independent practice rights, they are functionally equivalent to physicians. Everything a physician can (from a legal perspective) do, they can do as well. Yet they face no restrictions on "self referral" bull****. How is this remotely justifiable? The whole Stark law crap always seemed like completely unconstitutional discrimination to me, but whatever. Let's take it at face value and assume it truly is there to protect patients and battle "conflicts of interest."

So why aren't independent practice NPs covered by the Stark laws? If it's illegal for a physician to refer his patients to ancillary services that physician owns, why is an NP allowed to refer his patients to ancillary services the NP owns? It's a complete joke.

PS what you're proposing is not the exploitation of a loophole but outright fraud. And you don't need the involvement on an NP to accomplish this, two independent physician practices can always strike an informal quid pro quo bargain to refer their patients to each others ancillary services so that it's technically not "self" referral. But again, it would be fraud, which is completely fine with me (f the system and all that) but the penalty is federal prison, probably. On the other hand, the NP could do this just fine and make the type of money a doctor would risk prison for perfectly legally, because Stark laws don't apply to NPs.

 

[Mad Jack]

That's precisely the infuriating thing. In states where NPs have independent practice rights, they are functionally equivalent to physicians. Everything a physician can (from a legal perspective) do, they can do as well. Yet they face no restrictions on "self referral" bull****. How is this remotely justifiable? The whole Stark law crap always seemed like completely unconstitutional discrimination to me, but whatever. Let's take it at face value and assume it truly is there to protect patients and battle "conflicts of interest."

So why aren't independent practice NPs covered by the Stark laws? If it's illegal for a physician to refer his patients to ancillary services that physician owns, why is an NP allowed to refer his patients to ancillary services the NP owns? It's a complete joke.

PS what you're proposing is not the exploitation of a loophole but outright fraud. And you don't need the involvement on an NP to accomplish this, two independent physician practices can always strike an informal quid pro quo bargain to refer their patients to each others ancillary services so that it's technically not "self" referral. But again, it would be fraud, which is completely fine with me (f the system and all that) but the penalty is federal prison, probably. On the other hand, the NP could do this just fine and make the type of money a doctor would risk prison for perfectly legally, because Stark laws don't apply to NPs.

I was kidding anyways. But my point was an NP that had their own panel could refer to your own services just fine and it wouldn't be an issue. You just couldn't refer to your own services. There's no conflict of interest there, as you do not oversee the NP, nor would you be kicking back any money for the referrals. Just as they could send their patients to a lab they own, they could send the patients to literally any other lab, including one you own.

 

[atomheart]

How in the world is it that they make so much? Some are Easily clearing 200k... I thought the average was around $90,000.

An average salary means some people will make more and some will make less. As hard as this is to believe, you may perform below average in medical school or make a below average salary as a physician. This also means that some nurses have the potential to make as much as physicians. Finally, there is something called a CRNA which will frequently make as much as some physicians without having to go to medical school.

But like all oversimplified comparisons, it doesn't mean they're doing the same work as a physician, or getting paid as much as a physician doing that same work in that location. There are many variables.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Yeah, nurses will continue to gain independence and money without having to do any of the crap physicians have to go through. Reading this while sitting here studying for step 1 makes me furious, not because of the 180k that's an outlier, btw there was a hospitalist job for MDs in Mississippi paying 310k for 10days of work a month, but because attending physicians only seem good at beating down young resident physicians and trying to justify why someone with a MD should be lowly paid and worked to death, but when a nurse with a joke of a degree muscles in on physician territory you don't hear a F'ing peep out of them. Ideally you want to join a profession that protects itself, medicine stopped protecting its turf in the 80s and with all the liberal mined " everybody is equal" wimps med schools are filling their classes with, nurses will continue to snatch food off the table with little resistance.

 

[68PGunner]

Making bank as a physician isn't hard once you start streamlining your referral system and procedures. Like you have learned in medical school, it's all about efficiency. If you are efficient with your job by focusing only on high paying procedures by establishing a strong referral network, the sky is the limit in term of income regardless of your specialty.

 

[ProfMD]

That APN who is making $180000 also notes that she takes home 51% of the money she brings into the practice. That means that her work is covering her paycheck. I am not arguing that APNs should be given full practice rights compared to physicians, but they do service and important role, especially in underserved areas.

 

[docapnPaul]

Good post.
For seasoned NPs it is appropriate to say salary is about, specialties such pain mng , pscyh , ortho, cardiology , Diabetes , weight loss -, well over 160,000K to high 200k depends on benefits vs just salary etc ... based on 40h per week , -and - for NP-anesthetist salary and for first assist NP in the OR salary could be over 300k + -- in the right place and at the right time. (in some cases for 1st assist reimbursements are 20-25% of the surgical cost fee example if surgery is $20000 - assist could get up to $4000 for assisting a surgeon -- again in the right place at the right time) . for all NPs my advice always proof to your employer what can you do for them $ and how well you provide the care to the population. from my experience the biggest overhead in any practice is the Specialist MD time - such time that md can perform procedures or marketing - if NP is able to perform everything within his/her legal window and provide MD time to do more px and marketing I believe its a win/win situation for all.

thank you for the post.

 

[HueySmith]

Post this stuff in pre-med section, maybe applications will drop by 50% lol.

 

[MU420]

It's higher than average for sure but not too much of an outlier. At my hospital, RN's get 80-120k, NP's get around 110-160k, and CRNA's 190-240k. Nursing unions are very strong in general, more so in certain states, and the gap between physician and nursing salaries is not large unless you're talking about some surgical specialties.

 

[Giovanotto]

It's higher than average for sure but not too much of an outlier. At my hospital, RN's get 80-120k, NP's get around 110-160k, and CRNA's 190-240k. Nursing unions are very strong in general, more so in certain states, and the gap between physician and nursing salaries is not large unless you're talking about some surgical specialties.

As per the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average income for registered nurses was $71,000 per annum, in May 2015. The mean hourly wages was reported to be $34.14. The total number of RNs employed throughout the USA was 2,745,910.

Finally, the American Association of Nurse Practitioners (AANP 2015) gets more granular in its National Nurse Practitioner Compensation Survey and groups average reported salaries by specialty. It found that among its 830 FNP respondents, the average annual salary was $95,661.

On average, certified registered nurse anesthetists in the U.S. make $160,250 annually, but CRNAs in some states make much more than the mean annual wage, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. For instance, CRNAs in Montana earn the highest average salary of CRNAs in the U.S. at $243,550

but you know better, carry on.

 

[HueySmith]

As per the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average income for registered nurses was $71,000 per annum, in May 2015. The mean hourly wages was reported to be $34.14. The total number of RNs employed throughout the USA was 2,745,910.

Finally, the American Association of Nurse Practitioners (AANP 2015) gets more granular in its National Nurse Practitioner Compensation Survey and groups average reported salaries by specialty. It found that among its 830 FNP respondents, the average annual salary was $95,661.

On average, certified registered nurse anesthetists in the U.S. make $160,250 annually, but CRNAs in some states make much more than the mean annual wage, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. For instance, CRNAs in Montana earn the highest average salary of CRNAs in the U.S. at $243,550

but you know better, carry on.

That's as good as your average primary care physician!

 

[Bearcat74]

I have many years experience as a Psych NP. I work in a city of 140K in Ohio, that has a SEVERE shortage of psychiatrists. I make $166,000, with full benefits. MDs in my clinic make $225,000. I do the same thing as they do. I was pre-med and actually accepted to three Ohio public med schools (2 MD and 1 DO). I just didn't want to put in 8 more years of difficult work/study so I went the NP route, and have not regretted it. But to be fair about salaries, Family NP's, of which there are plenty, Make about 100,000. Psych pays so well as they are only 4% of all NPs are psych certified.

As I am not far from retirement and have been "in the business" for many years, I honestly don't know why any MD/DO would want to go into primary care. The primary care clinics where I work have no MD's; strictly NP's. Why, because the clinic pays them 1/2 of what it would pay a Family Practice M.D. You don't need to be an MD to manage HTN or DMII.

The whole medical field is changing. My best friend is a pharmacist at WG, and used to love it, now hates it. If there were a perfect place to work or perfect occupation, we'd all be doing it.

 

[AlwaysContrary]

I have many years experience as a Psych NP. I work in a city of 140K in Ohio, that has a SEVERE shortage of psychiatrists. I make $166,000, with full benefits. MDs in my clinic make $225,000. I do the same thing as they do. I was pre-med and actually accepted to three Ohio public med schools (2 MD and 1 DO). I just didn't want to put in 8 more years of difficult work/study so I went the NP route, and have not regretted it. But to be fair about salaries, Family NP's, of which there are plenty, Make about 100,000. Psych pays so well as they are only 4% of all NPs are psych certified.

As I am not far from retirement and have been "in the business" for many years, I honestly don't know why any MD/DO would want to go into primary care. The primary care clinics where I work have no MD's; strictly NP's. Why, because the clinic pays them 1/2 of what it would pay a Family Practice M.D. You don't need to be an MD to manage HTN or DMII.

The whole medical field is changing. My best friend is a pharmacist at WG, and used to love it, now hates it. If there were a perfect place to work or perfect occupation, we'd all be doing it.

I found this an excellent point. I think it's also important to point out that the NP job market is not going to last like this forever. Everyone and their mother are becoming nurses (and eventually NP) and that will drop the salary and benefits. Saturation will eventually hit just like optometry, dental in urban areas, and pharmacy.

 

[QueenJames]

Eh.

Still would rather be a physician than a specialized nurse when it's all said and done.

 

[GrignardsReagent]

Eh.

Still would rather be a physician than a specialized nurse when it's all said and done.

Yep. Agreed.

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[MU420]

As per the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average income for registered nurses was $71,000 per annum, in May 2015. The mean hourly wages was reported to be $34.14. The total number of RNs employed throughout the USA was 2,745,910.

Finally, the American Association of Nurse Practitioners (AANP 2015) gets more granular in its National Nurse Practitioner Compensation Survey and groups average reported salaries by specialty. It found that among its 830 FNP respondents, the average annual salary was $95,661.

On average, certified registered nurse anesthetists in the U.S. make $160,250 annually, but CRNAs in some states make much more than the mean annual wage, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. For instance, CRNAs in Montana earn the highest average salary of CRNAs in the U.S. at $243,550

but you know better, carry on.

What I'm saying is that it wouldn't be surprising at all to see the numbers OP quoted in my area (West coast). CRNA's for example get paid better than most PCP's around here and RN's are paid very well for working 36 hours/week.

 

[HueySmith]

What I'm saying is that it wouldn't be surprising at all to see the numbers OP quoted in my area (West coast). CRNA's for example get paid better than most PCP's around here and RN's are paid very well for working 36 hours/week.

Soon enough they're going to get full prescribing independence and practicing rights too!

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

I found this an excellent point. I think it's also important to point out that the NP job market is not going to last like this forever. Everyone and their mother are becoming nurses (and eventually NP) and that will drop the salary and benefits. Saturation will eventually hit just like optometry, dental in urban areas, and pharmacy.

As a psych NP making one of those high salaries (w/benefits), I do worry about this sometimes. Fortunately, despite it being an extremely well paid NP specialty, psych remains fairly unpopular among NPs. I don't think there is any push to increase psychiatry residency spots in the US either. And if I am recalling things correctly, >50% of psychiatrists are expected to retire in the next ~20 years or so, which will probably make the shortage far worse than it is now. I definitely don't see the market cooling down for psychiatrists or psych NPs any time soon.

 

[Mad Jack]

As a psych NP making one of those high salaries (w/benefits), I do worry about this sometimes. Fortunately, despite it being an extremely well paid NP specialty, psych remains fairly unpopular among NPs. I don't think there is any push to increase psychiatry residency spots in the US either. And if I am recalling things correctly, >50% of psychiatrists are expected to retire in the next ~20 years or so, which will probably make the shortage far worse than it is now. I definitely don't see the market cooling down for psychiatrists or psych NPs any time soon.

Physicians start their careers at around 30 if they're fresh out of school. Twenty years in, they're 50. 20 years later, they're 70. Saying that "half of psychiatrists will retire within 20 years" is therefore kind of meaningless, since half of psychiatrists should be near 50 or older at any given time, and thus half the profession is within 20 years of retirement at any given time.

Psych residency spots have expanded significantly though, by about 20% in the last 4 years, with more programs planned in the future. Still, in medicine, experience counts, so you should be fine even with an influx of NPs, though salaries might decline.

 

[Donald Juan]

As a psych NP making one of those high salaries (w/benefits), I do worry about this sometimes. Fortunately, despite it being an extremely well paid NP specialty, psych remains fairly unpopular among NPs. I don't think there is any push to increase psychiatry residency spots in the US either. And if I am recalling things correctly, >50% of psychiatrists are expected to retire in the next ~20 years or so, which will probably make the shortage far worse than it is now. I definitely don't see the market cooling down for psychiatrists or psych NPs any time soon.

I think saying 50% of doctors will retire in the next 20 years means there will be a shortage is a fallacy. If you guessed a retirement age of 65, and said your average doc starts working at age 30 (probably later given average age starting med school is 24), then most docs probably have a 35 year career, so there would always be about half of the current ones planning retirement in 20 years.

It's like saying half the people on earth today will be dead in about 40 years and thinking our population is about to be decimated.

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

Physicians start their careers at around 30 if they're fresh out of school. Twenty years in, they're 50. 20 years later, they're 70. Saying that "half of psychiatrists will retire within 20 years" is therefore kind of meaningless, since half of psychiatrists should be near 50 or older at any given time, and thus half the profession is within 20 years of retirement at any given time.

Psych residency spots have expanded significantly though, by about 20% in the last 4 years, with more programs planned in the future. Still, in medicine, experience counts, so you should be fine even with an influx of NPs, though salaries might decline.

Ah well then I stand corrected about the residency slots. From what I've read, articles stated that psychiatrists on average are far older than the average practicing physician and that they are not being replaced at the same rate, as psychiatry is a much less popular specialty than it was in the 60s/70s. Maybe these articles about the impending worsening of the shortage are overreacting.

 

[Mad Jack]

Ah well then I stand corrected about the residency slots. From what I've read, articles stated that psychiatrists on average are far older than the average practicing physician and that they are not being replaced at the same rate, as psychiatry is a much less popular specialty than it was in the 60s/70s. Maybe these articles about the impending worsening of the shortage are overreacting.

To give you an idea, in 2011 there were 1,101 psychiatry positions in the match. In 2017, there were 1,495- growth has been substantial in this decade. Another major issue is that when people say "psych isn't as popular as it was in the 60s/70s," they generally mean amongst US graduates, as basically every psych spot fills every year, it's just that they fill with international medical graduates instead of US graduates. This has no effect on the total number of psychiatrists being trained, merely on the demographic makeup of said psychiatrists.

 

[Donald Juan]

Ah well then I stand corrected about the residency slots. From what I've read, articles stated that psychiatrists on average are far older than the average practicing physician and that they are not being replaced at the same rate, as psychiatry is a much less popular specialty than it was in the 60s/70s. Maybe these articles about the impending worsening of the shortage are overreacting.

A lot of the articles about impending shortages are from administrators of schools and training programs that want to expand.

 

[HueySmith]

A lot of the articles about impending shortages are from administrators of schools and training programs that want to expand.

In reality, there might not even be a shortage at all, but just a maldistribution of supply.

 

[Stagg737]

Ah well then I stand corrected about the residency slots. From what I've read, articles stated that psychiatrists on average are far older than the average practicing physician and that they are not being replaced at the same rate, as psychiatry is a much less popular specialty than it was in the 60s/70s. Maybe these articles about the impending worsening of the shortage are overreacting.

They are older in general, from talking to PDs at interviews I've heard a few times that there's a huge percentage over 65 years old (can't remember the exact number). Problem is that because psych is such a lifestyle specialty, many docs either never fully retire or keep working well past the age that most other docs will retire. To give you an idea, I know a few psychiatrists in their 80's who are still working full-time seeing patients, both outpatient and inpatient. I've also encountered quite a few new patients with my OP attendings who were looking for a new doc because theirs' died. Maybe there'll be a dip for short period, but any doom and gloom articles you're seeing about shortages in psychiatry are pretty overblown imo, especially given the recent and continuing expansion of residency programs.

In reality, there might not even be a shortage at all, but just a maldistribution of supply.

In many fields I think this is true, but there is legitimately a shortage in psychiatry. Even in the most popular metro areas there's still a pretty huge demand for psychiatrists.

 

[BombsAway]

Whoa... This loophole could make you crazy money. Hire an NP, then have them refer to your in-house lab and services...

Step 1: Marry a Nurse
Step 2: Send her to NP school
Step 3: Profit

 

[mr.applesauce]

Step 1: Marry a Nurse
Step 2: Send her to NP school
Step 3: Profit

*On the honeymoon*

"Honey, why did you choose me over everyone else?"

"I saw potential in sending you to NP school baby"

 

[michaelrack]

Step 1: Marry a Nurse
Step 2: Send her to NP school
Step 3: Profit

the loophole wouldn't apply to an NP married to a physician (stark antikickback etc does apply to close relatives/spouses of docs) unless the NP's practice was totally unrelated to the docs

 

[KnuxNole]

Happy Nurse Practitioner week everyone

 

[Tyrone.]

Happy Nurse Practitioner week everyone

How ironic

 

[docapnPaul]

Happy Nurse Practitioner week everyone

Cheers .... Happy NPs week .