2 GMO tours back to back

[RunwayModel]

If I take a 4 year Navy HPSP Scholarship, and then decide to do 2 GMO tours back to back (I guess that would be 4 years of GMO), is my obligation completed then?

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[militarymd]

If I take a 4 year Navy HPSP Scholarship, and then decide to do 2 GMO tours back to back (I guess that would be 4 years of GMO), is my obligation completed then?

yes

 

[i want out]

If I take a 4 year Navy HPSP Scholarship, and then decide to do 2 GMO tours back to back (I guess that would be 4 years of GMO), is my obligation completed then?

YES, yes, YES, yEs.

I am on my second GMO tour now, and can't wait for it to be over.
Letter of resignation is already in.

The only trouble that you might run into, is with recruiting being so piss poor right now, they may try to implement a stop loss about the time your ready to get out.
The possibility of them doing a stop loss is something you may want to consider when deciding whether to do a residency, or second GMO.

i want out

 

[GMO_52]

If I take a 4 year Navy HPSP Scholarship, and then decide to do 2 GMO tours back to back (I guess that would be 4 years of GMO), is my obligation completed then?

Your other alternative is to extend in place to finish your obligation. This works well with Flight or Dive since you usually only have a year left at that point. One word of caution, although I think a stop loss is incredibly unlikely to impact you, you have to watch your second set of orders for "minimum activity." This is the length of time you have to stay in that job, so if you take orders with 3 years of minimum activity (to HI for example) and only owe a year, you can find yourself fighting to get out.

 

[midn]

So the required GMO tour will count two years towards your active duty requirements? Also, what is the possibility of skipping GMO tours and going straight into residency. I know this has been asked before, but all this commitment crap is so confusing to me.

 

[Monty Python]

......, what is the possibility of skipping GMO tours and going straight into residency........

In the Navy, the chance of skipping GMO is about the same as pigs flying.

In the Army and AF, it's a much more likely scenario.

 

[GMO_52]

In the Navy, the chance of skipping GMO is about the same as pigs flying.

Depends on your specialty. Wanna be an internist or FP, good chance of skipping GMO (if you want), wanna be a radiologist, pigs it is.

 

[R-Me-Doc]

yes

Shouldn't that be YES*?

* = what about the subsequent 4 years of IRR to make up your 8-year statutory commitment? I know it's "IRR," but these days you never know, and you need to factor that in to your decision.

X-RMD

 

[militarymd]

NAVY: Can I train straight through Anesthesia? EM?

unlikely

 

[RunwayModel]

Shouldn't that be YES*?

* = what about the subsequent 4 years of IRR to make up your 8-year statutory commitment? I know it's "IRR," but these days you never know, and you need to factor that in to your decision.

X-RMD

What is an IRR? I am not in UHSUS or whatever. I'm just a U.S. Med Student with a 4 year commitment.

 

[st0rmin]

What is an IRR? I am not in UHSUS or whatever. I'm just a U.S. Med Student with a 4 year commitment.

Below is taken from a Vet Corp page, but still applies to us medical folks:

"What is my service obligation when I finish veterinary school? (HPSP Handbook 2-2a,b, 2-3)

Regardless of the active duty requirement that you agreed to in the contract, all Health Professions Scholarship recipients are obligated to 8 years of military service. Your individual contract will determine how many years of active duty service is required (i.e. 3 or 4 years). The remainder of the time is served in the Individual Ready Reserves (IRR). When serving in the IRR you are not obligated to attend weekend drill like the Army Reserve or National Guard. The IRR can be called to Active Duty service any time there is a national crisis that requires additional reinforcements. For example, members of the IRR were activated in the early days of the most recent Iraq war.

Years Scholarship -- Active Duty -- IRR
1 -- 3 -- 5
2 -- 3 -- 5
3 -- 3 -- 5
4 -- 4 -- 4"

**Good luck, have fun

 

[pgg]

NAVY: Can I train straight through Anesthesia? EM?

Here are the numbers for this year's entering class: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=3188527&postcount=11

Anesthesia - 17 slots, 33 alternates (non-selects)
ER - 17 slots, 10 alternates

There's variation year to year, but it doesn't look good for going straight through to either anesthesia or ER for the forseeable future. As recently as a couple years ago, applying to Navy anesthesia as a returning GMO was a sure thing (Bethesda took 1+ interns straight through for something like 10 or 11 years running) ... no longer.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Here are the numbers for this year's entering class: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=3188527&postcount=11

Anesthesia - 17 slots, 33 alternates (non-selects)
ER - 17 slots, 10 alternates

There's variation year to year, but it doesn't look good for going straight through to either anesthesia or ER for the forseeable future. As recently as a couple years ago, applying to Navy anesthesia as a returning GMO was a sure thing (Bethesda took 1+ interns straight through for something like 10 or 11 years running) ... no longer.

Yes. Pretty much the only thing close to a sure thing is a GMO tour. They really should call the HPSP the "GMO Service Recruitment Program" since that is largely what it has become. The services have no intention of training their HPSP accessions, in fact they depend on most of them leaving without training.

 

[GMO_52]

NAVY: Can I train straight through Anesthesia? EM?

So, a few years back you might well have gone straight through in anesthesia (when I was an intern 2 people did at my center), but no longer. OB, Gen Surg and even Ortho have taken an occasional straight through intern over the last couple of years but, again, the only programs that consistently take >50% straight through are FP and IM and I'm only really sure thats true for IM.

 

[midn]

Let me make sure I have this correct.

In my case I will have 4 years of commitment for ROTC + 4 years for HPSP (we'll ignore IRR for now...). I graduate med school and they shunt me away to a GMO tour. So that takes two years off my commitment leaving me with 6 years. I then go into a 4 year residency (what I was thinking right now is 2 year IM + 2 year infectious disease fellowship) where all my commitment time effectively freezes. I finish residency and have six years left to serve in active duty.

Basically, I will be in the Navy for 12 years after med school, right?

 

[FL350]

Here are the numbers for this year's entering class: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=3188527&postcount=11

Anesthesia - 17 slots, 33 alternates (non-selects)
ER - 17 slots, 10 alternates

There's variation year to year, but it doesn't look good for going straight through to either anesthesia or ER for the forseeable future. As recently as a couple years ago, applying to Navy anesthesia as a returning GMO was a sure thing (Bethesda took 1+ interns straight through for something like 10 or 11 years running) ... no longer.

What are the chances of getting a civilian deferment, particularly for NS, although I'm interested on GS also. I spoke to the specialty detailer about both of these and he indicated that both are under staffed and are projected to decline even further over the next couple of years. I realize that these projections are of course subject to change. I have not had much luck in contacting the directors of these programs.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

What are the chances of getting a civilian deferment, particularly for NS, although I'm interested on GS also. I spoke to the specialty detailer about both of these and he indicated that both are under staffed and are projected to decline even further over the next couple of years. I realize that these projections are of course subject to change. I have not had much luck in contacting the directors of these programs.

The vacant GMO billets will generally be the driver. Specialty surgery will have shortfalls, but filling GMO slots from intern classes will take priority over deferments and orders to PGY2 from internship, unless no qualified GMOs are applying from the fleet. Exceptional candidates, and people with prior service who have retirement interests might get extra consideration, but the first priority will be to fill vacant operational medicine slots, whatever the source.

 

[DaveB]

Let me make sure I have this correct.

In my case I will have 4 years of commitment for ROTC + 4 years for HPSP (we'll ignore IRR for now...). I graduate med school and they shunt me away to a GMO tour. So that takes two years off my commitment leaving me with 6 years. I then go into a 4 year residency (what I was thinking right now is 2 year IM + 2 year infectious disease fellowship) where all my commitment time effectively freezes. I finish residency and have six years left to serve in active duty.

Basically, I will be in the Navy for 12 years after med school, right?

You're almost right - you forgot about your internship......

Out of med school you will owe 8 years. You will then do your internship, which does not count for or against you for payback. You will then do a GMO tour which will pay back two years; you will then owe 6 years. If you then finish 2 years of IM then two years of ID you will incur 4 more years of obligation. However, when you break down the rules you essentially owe the longer of your obligations..... so if you owe 6 years for ROTC/HPSP and 4 years for GME, you will pay back your longer obligation - the 6 years. Therefore total time in the Navy = 1 year for internship + 2 for GMO + 4 for GME + 6 years of payback. This totals 13 years.

 

[midn]

Ah, ok, thanks for the clarification.

 

[DaveB]

The vacant GMO billets will generally be the driver. Specialty surgery will have shortfalls, but filling GMO slots from intern classes will take priority over deferments and orders to PGY2 from internship, unless no qualified GMOs are applying from the fleet. Exceptional candidates, and people with prior service who have retirement interests might get extra consideration, but the first priority will be to fill vacant operational medicine slots, whatever the source.

This "operational priority" is actually a huge concern of mine...... for the last several years HPSP has fallen way short of its recruitment needs. This means that in a few years, when my time comes to seperate or apply for GME, there will be a huge shortage of fresh doctors to fill all the GMO billets. I have a fear that we'll all be stop loss'd, kept in for second tours and all the military GME positions will go to second tour GMO's........

 

[orbitsurgMD]

This "operational priority" is actually a huge concern of mine...... for the last several years HPSP has fallen way short of its recruitment needs. This means that in a few years, when my time comes to seperate or apply for GME, there will be a huge shortage of fresh doctors to fill all the GMO billets. I have a fear that we'll all be stop loss'd, kept in for second tours and all the military GME positions will go to second tour GMO's........

Which is why failing to eliminate the perverse dependency on outmoded GMOs will become an ever-larger albatross for the Navy. It really does have the potential to snuff HPSP recruitment. Obligation-creep has transformed the GMO tour from what was at one time a one-year tour before resuming training into being the only form of service and payback for the majority of accessions into the Navy medical department. The decline in numbers of residency positions as a result of TRICARE/CHAMPUS-facilitated separation of retirees from military care and loss of cachement population has meant there are fewer residency opportunities to which one may return from the fleet. Self-fulfilling, sadly.