2 MilMed Physicians among 5 murdered soldiers at Camp Liberty

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Dimoak

Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
May 2, 2006
Messages
890
Reaction score
13
Source
Associated Press said:
US files murder charges in Iraq soldier shooting
By PAUL SCHEMM, Associated Press Writer Paul Schemm, Associated Press
BAGHDAD – A U.S. Army sergeant who was due to leave Iraq soon after multiple tours has been charged with murder and aggravated assault in the fatal shooting of five fellow soldiers at a U.S. military counseling clinic in Baghdad, a U.S. official said Tuesday.

Sgt. John M. Russell of the 54th Engineering Battalion based in Bamberg, Germany was charged with five counts of murder and one count of aggravated assault in Monday's shooting, Maj. Gen. David Perkins told reporters.

It was the deadliest case of soldier-on-soldier violence since the Iraq war began in 2003 and has drawn attention to the issue of combat stress and frequent deployments to battle zones.

Russell was taken into custody by military police outside the clinic following the shooting at Camp Liberty, Perkins said.

Perkins said two of the dead were officers — doctors from the Army and Navy — and the others were enlisted personnel seeking treatment at the clinic. He did not identify the victims by name.

He said a probe has also begun into whether the Army has enough mental health facilities in Iraq to care for stress cases.

The U.S. military is coping with a growing number of stress cases among soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan — many of whom are on their third or fourth combat tours. Some studies suggest that about 15 percent of soldiers returning from Iraq suffer from some sort of emotional problems.

Perkins gave few details of the shooting since the investigation is ongoing and added that there were conflicting accounts of what happened.

He said the alleged assailant had been referred to the clinic by his superiors, presumably because of concern over his mental state. Perkins said Russell was "probably" on his third tour of Iraq but was due to leave soon.

Perkins said the assailant's weapon had been taken away, but somehow he got a new weapon, entered the clinic and opened fire.

In Washington, a Pentagon official said the alleged assailant had been escorted to the clinic, but once inside got into an argument with the staff and was asked to leave. After he and his escort drove away, Russell allegedly took control of the escort's weapon and returned to the clinic, said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing.

President Barack Obama, who visited an adjacent base last month, said in a statement that he was "shocked and deeply saddened" by the report.

At the Pentagon, Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the shooting occurred "in a place where individuals were seeking help."

"It does speak to me about the need for us to redouble our efforts in terms of dealing with the stress," Mullen said.

Violence has dropped sharply in Iraq since the high point in 2007, but attacks continue, especially in the north.

Also Tuesday, a suicide bomber rammed his car into an Iraqi police truck in the northern city of Kirkuk, killing five policemen and a civilian.

Kirkuk is the center of Iraq's oil production in the north and is contested between its Kurdish, Turkomen and Arab populations.

Another huge tragedy.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Army and Navy physicians in a combat stress control clinic? They are probably psychiatrists. Hard to react to unverified news reports but this one hits close to home.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I'm speechless
 
According to news reports, Naval officer was CDR Charles Springle / Social Work
 
Last edited:
Army and Navy physicians in a combat stress control clinic? They are probably psychiatrists. Hard to react to unverified news reports but this one hits close to home.

On deployments I've been on, non-psych docs would often hang out in the psych tent during off time as it was comfortable and provided a gathering place.
 
"Sgt. John M. Russell, 44, first joined the Army National Guard in 1988; he went into the active Army in 1994."

An E5 with 21 years in service, 15 of which on active duty... wow, I wasn't aware they hang on to soldiers who don't promote for that long.
 
According to news reports, Naval officer was CDR Charles Springle / Psychologist

If you knew him....my deepest condolences.

At any rate, I lift a glass to his memory and add his family to my prayers.
 
It is truly sad. 5 people murdered senselessly. They need to throw the book at that guy. I am sure the military will be reactive and come down hard on MTFs for more BMD type screening, APEQS computer simulated, and other various lectures on stress/suicide.
 
I am very curious to know the details of what happened but I suspect they will never be released. In a way it is an episode of workplace violence. You never know when a patient will show up in the ER or your office with a weapon. I've never had it happen to me but have read numerous reports of the same.
 
We had a guy bring a live hand-grenade through the ER metal detectors in Detroit a couple years back. All I can say is thank God we had the metal detectors.
 
Truly is terrible. My condolences to the families.
 
We had a guy bring a live hand-grenade through the ER metal detectors in Detroit a couple years back. All I can say is thank God we had the metal detectors.

So that's what a metal detector is for. See, the 'guy' could have pulled the pin on the grenade and probably killed more people than anywhere else in the building. The most crowded spot in almost any building tends to be right there at the metal detector. But, the madman was probably trying to kill a specific person he felt wronged him or the voices in his head told him to kill. The metal detector effectively protects the intended target from being murdered, at the cost of everyone else's time and money.

That's why a metal detector to protect against a mad gunman who is randomly attacking people doesn't do any good.

On a hospital, it doesn't make any sense. The metal detectors don't protect doctors at all - it's statistically equally likely that you'd be stuck in line for the metal detector in that fluke event when a madman comes and die there. In return for this non existent bit of protection you lose time every time you enter the building. If someone is mad and trying to kill you specifically, all they have to do is find out your home address and kill you there.

Well, maybe there's a deterrent value. If a mad gunmen were trying to figure out where to go on a shooting spree, he might choose a building that didn't have a metal detector and armed guards at entrance. (despite the reality that he would have the drop on the armed guards and could bring a more powerful firearm)

I think if you analyzed the costs of metal detectors, including the opportunity cost of all the people who's time it wastes, versus the benefits, they are probably worthless. Sort of like screening tests for a rare disease that have a high false positive rate and cost a lot to run.
 
Last edited:
You have no idea what Detroit is really like do you? Believe me, the metal detectors DO save lives and DO protect the staff. The metal detectors are to stop the hundreds of friends and family that visit patients every day from bringing their knives and handguns in. The hand grenade was a unique day and was not what the detectors were meant to stop. You're talking about one of the busiest ER's in one of the worst city's in the country. They stop people on a daily basis who are trying to retaliate for a lost friend. We're talking thugs and gangs here. The docs and nurses go in through the back and aren't slowed by the security detail. Come spend a night here and see what comes through our doors before you start spouting off about whether or not metal detectors are necessary.
 
You have no idea what Detroit is really like do you? Believe me, the metal detectors DO save lives and DO protect the staff. The metal detectors are to stop the hundreds of friends and family that visit patients every day from bringing their knives and handguns in. The hand grenade was a unique day and was not what the detectors were meant to stop. You're talking about one of the busiest ER's in one of the worst city's in the country. They stop people on a daily basis who are trying to retaliate for a lost friend. We're talking thugs and gangs here. The docs and nurses go in through the back and aren't slowed by the security detail. Come spend a night here and see what comes through our doors before you start spouting off about whether or not metal detectors are necessary.

That's totally different. And I forgot it was Detroit.

And my analysis totally ignores the kind of people who live in Detroit, and how they think. None of this security would more than inconvenience an educated, intelligent person. (albeit such a person would understand how crime investigation works, what the penalties are like, and would not commit the crime in the first place)
 
You have no idea what Detroit is really like do you? Believe me, the metal detectors DO save lives and DO protect the staff. The metal detectors are to stop the hundreds of friends and family that visit patients every day from bringing their knives and handguns in. The hand grenade was a unique day and was not what the detectors were meant to stop. You're talking about one of the busiest ER's in one of the worst city's in the country. They stop people on a daily basis who are trying to retaliate for a lost friend. We're talking thugs and gangs here. The docs and nurses go in through the back and aren't slowed by the security detail. Come spend a night here and see what comes through our doors before you start spouting off about whether or not metal detectors are necessary.

Detroit Receiving Hospital? If so, I remember the full hand scanner I had to use there to get in the basement door off the space tunnel.
 
That's totally different. And I forgot it was Detroit.

And my analysis totally ignores the kind of people who live in Detroit, and how they think. None of this security would more than inconvenience an educated, intelligent person. (albeit such a person would understand how crime investigation works, what the penalties are like, and would not commit the crime in the first place)

You're absolutely correct. The intelligent criminal with a plan would find it as nothing more than a hiccup. But to the average thug who is a coin toss away from blowing off his own genitals, a standard metal detector and light show of force (a couple of security guards) can help to discourage a lot of crime.
 
Top