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20-24 hrs/week for around $60 K?

Discussion in 'Medical Students - MD' started by franklinave, Apr 22, 2007.

  1. franklinave

    franklinave 2+ Year Member

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    Hello,

    As a physician I would ideally like to work around 20-24 hrs/week and make around $60 k/year. Given this, what are my work options, if any?

    Thanks,
    Frank
     
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  3. Critical Mass

    Critical Mass Guest

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    What group is going to hire a new grad for 20-24 hours/week?

    How are you going to pay your loans back on that kind of cheddar?

    Sounds like doc-in-a-box is your style...
     
  4. franklinave

    franklinave 2+ Year Member

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    "What group is going to hire a new grad for 20-24 hours/week?"

    It needn't be a group. For example, a hospital might (just guessing).


    "Sounds like doc-in-a-box is your style"

    What does this mean?
     
  5. dbhvt

    dbhvt Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    sounds like a budding radiologist to me.
     
  6. Toohotinvegas33

    Toohotinvegas33 Currently Glasgow 3 7+ Year Member

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    I shadowed a doc who had a partner who worked 3 days a wekk 9-5 style (as internist), she had a family and was married to another doc.
     
  7. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio. Physician Gold Donor SDN Advisor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    Increasingly, you can find part-time practice opportunities in many specialties. I know part-timers in FM who are making well in excess of $60K/year.
     
  8. franklinave

    franklinave 2+ Year Member

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    Funny you should mention that, db. I find diagnostic radiology appealing for other reasons. Namely, that you can get by without any patient contact.
     
  9. franklinave

    franklinave 2+ Year Member

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    Kent, what is FM?
     
  10. J ROD

    J ROD Watch my TAN walk!! Rocket Scientist Physician Pharmacist Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    working on my tan......
    Try Emergency Medicine.

    Shift work per hour.

    Work two 12hr shifts/wk and make about $150,000 ($120hr * 24hr/wk * 52 weeks) before taxes.
     
  11. franklinave

    franklinave 2+ Year Member

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    J Dub, I have a few questions about Emergency Medicine, if you don't mind.

    1) Do some shifts pay more than others? For example, weekends, late night?

    2) Do most hospitals require a minimum number of shifts? Would it be possible to work only one shift?

    Thanks
     
  12. franklinave

    franklinave 2+ Year Member

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    By the way, thanks everyone for your feedback so far. This board truly is a great resource.
     
  13. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio. Physician Gold Donor SDN Advisor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    Family medicine.
     
  14. franklinave

    franklinave 2+ Year Member

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    Haha, I'm so absent minded sometimes.
     
  15. franklinave

    franklinave 2+ Year Member

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    BTW, db, why does radiology fit the bill more so than other specialties? Is there more demand for part-time radiologists?
     
  16. mintendo

    mintendo 5+ Year Member

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    Are you sure about this? That means a EM doc who works full time (assuming 4 12hr shifts/week) would make 300K. That sounds a bit much for Emergency Medicine, especially considering the 48 hr/wk workload.
     
  17. Tiger26

    Tiger26 Senior Member Physician 10+ Year Member

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    They work about 3 shifts/week w/o call. Don't tell anybody, since I really want to match into it in a couple of years
     
  18. mintendo

    mintendo 5+ Year Member

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    :)

    I like EM a lot. It might be the most useful specialty out there. I'm just afraid it might make me even more cynical than I already am (i.e. treating druggies, etc).
     
  19. Green Chimneys

    Green Chimneys Meatwad's Worst Nightmare 7+ Year Member

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    OP, I hope you do realize that while your schedule goals are achievable under the right circumstances as a practicing physician, you will not be able to have those hours as a resident. You're going to have at least 3-5 post graduate years (depending on which specialty you choose) of working 60-80 hour weeks for $40-50k/year. Make sure that you are fully aware of the reality of a career in medicine before you make such a large time and financial commitment.
     
  20. franklinave

    franklinave 2+ Year Member

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    Thanks for your response, GC. I am aware of how intense residencies are. I'm willing to put in the work if it means having a nice lifestyle afterwards.
     
  21. TMP-SMX

    TMP-SMX Senior Member Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Great, but how do you expect to pay off loans making 60k a year? If you die at 100 you probably won't have your loans paid off.
     
  22. Critical Mass

    Critical Mass Guest

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    Keep in mind that doctors usually do not work for hospitals even if they work in hospitals. They usually work for a group, i.e. the doctor's bill arrives at the patient's home/insurance company separate from the facility's bill. You should be able to negotiate your pay with your partners; the hospital is just where you hang out to make your money.

    Just thought of something that might fit your desires--work for a college/university student health center.

    Don't expect to get a lot of love saying that you are interested in medicine to avoid patient contact.

    EM is a specialty experiencing rises in popularity, partially because it is probably the youngest specialty out there.

    One other thing... It needs to be said that docs fresh out of residency with no experience do not always get exactly what they want. There are market, demand, turf war, etc. issues to consider. If you are in a high demand/high pay region, why would a group want to hire you for 24 hours when they need you for 50, especially if/when they've got 5 other docs lined up to work 60?
     
  23. dbhvt

    dbhvt Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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  24. mintendo

    mintendo 5+ Year Member

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  25. dutchman

    dutchman 7+ Year Member

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    Is this because you have to take care of family? Sounds like too few hours to work IMO.
     
  26. BlackSails

    BlackSails 2+ Year Member

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  27. Dakota

    Dakota Senior Member Physician 10+ Year Member

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    Agree with most of the above, except this point. If you are in a high demand specialty/region you are more likely to be able to dictate your terms because there aren't 5 people applying for a position. If it's really high demand there is no one applying for the position (think optho or even g-surg in a small town) and they will take part time help vs no help. The catch is you probably won't be able to avoid call in those circumstances sinply because if you are the only g-sugeon and someone needs an appy, you are the guy. It's the electives you get to turn away.
     
  28. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    It should be noted that that is from a 2001 publication based on 1997 survey data though. The average full time radiologist was listed in that article as working 52 hours per week in that study. A JAMA publication of average specialty hours a couple of years later (2003) listed average hours for this field as 58 -- so it's climbing over time, and so I'd bet that table is not exactly accurate anymore today.

    Additionally, it should be noted that even in that study it was observed that career advancement pretty much was nonexistant for part timers.
     
  29. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    I actually think the number of these opportunities are decreasing, not increasing, as more people are seeking better hours even in the face of declining reimbursements. A company with the ability to hire one person to work 60 hours/wk and pay one set of worker related expenses/benefits is going to do that over the opportunity to hire two people working 30 hours/wk every time. In law, lots of firms phased out part time options for the same reasoning.

    (I know you in another post you mentioned firms which require employees to pay their own expenses (medmal insurance etc), but I'm fairly sure that is more the exception, not the norm).
     
  30. dbhvt

    dbhvt Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    This is really just speculation. I haven't seen any data to support the idea that the number of part time opportunities in medicine in general (and radiology in particular) are decreasing.
     
  31. dbhvt

    dbhvt Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    The OP doesn't seem to be interested in academic medicine.

    The study the table was drawn from did also show that academic radiologists had a hard time advancing because they did not have protected time for academic work bundled into their 30 hr/wk 40 wk/year (i.e. 3 months vacation) job.

    The study said nothing about career advancement for non-academic radiologists.
     
  32. dbhvt

    dbhvt Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    OR, more part-time opportunities = more work for those that work full time. Both are similarly unfounded speculations.
     
  33. NonTradMed

    NonTradMed Perpetual Student 7+ Year Member

    I've heard peds is where a lot of docs do parttime, something about pediatricians being more likely to be child centered or something...? Dunno, just heresay.
     
  34. dbhvt

    dbhvt Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    I can't seem to find this article. I am curious to see if it includes both interventional and diagnostic radiology. The table I linked dealt with the OPs interest--diagnostic radiology.

    Could you provide a link or other identifying information?
     
  35. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio. Physician Gold Donor SDN Advisor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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  36. Whisker Barrel Cortex

    Whisker Barrel Cortex 1K Member 10+ Year Member

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    The numbers on the study linked in the above post are a decade old and definitely have changed. Due to a continuous per year increase in imaging volume, the hours worked have increased, as have the incomes. By the way, there is nothing in the Radiology article that separates out interventional from non-interventional (interventional radiology is still considered part of diagnostic radiology).

    Of note, this study includes a large number of academic rads, who work less clinical hours than private practice.

    I think the main reason for the difference in female incomes is that many of the older, senior members of groups are more likely to be male and have a higher income. These partners are more likely to own part of the equipment and less likely to be employees.

    Link to SDN post about more recent work hours survey:
    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=101722
    The actual source of this info is the AMA and is not available for free online.

    All of that being said, I think there is definitely a decent number of opportunities to work part time in radiology. However, other specialties (primary care comes to mind) also have a decent number of these opportunities.
     
  37. Critical Mass

    Critical Mass Guest

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    Yeah you're right. I had my head up my ass when I wrote that. Obviously if a field was high demand, there wouldn't be 5 people applying for every opening.
     
  38. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    I was referring to a table that shows up on SDN frequently. It just indicates an average for various specialties, including radiology (diagnostic) -- it doesn't provide other subdivisions. See http://www.medfriends.org/specialty_hours_worked.htm
     
  39. dbhvt

    dbhvt Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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  40. Blue Dog

    Blue Dog Fides et ratio. Physician Gold Donor SDN Advisor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    It's certainly possible. This is SDN, after all. ;)
     
  41. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Well, it did say that "radiologists who had worked part-time were less likely to be partners".
     
  42. dbhvt

    dbhvt Senior Member 5+ Year Member

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    Thanks for the clarifications. Good to hear from a rads resident.
     
  43. franklinave

    franklinave 2+ Year Member

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    Thanks for all of your responses; this thread has been quite informative.
     
  44. JosephFaecesMD

    JosephFaecesMD 2+ Year Member

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    Try EM. Work 36 hours per week and pull in 200k+ to start (in most areas). Some say this is the best kept secret in medicine.
     
  45. franklinave

    franklinave 2+ Year Member

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    Thanks for your response Dr. Faeces. I started to research EM and found this*:

    Lifestyle (EM)
    Mean Salary $197,100
    Median Salary $180,000
    Average hours worked per week: 50
    Source: Physician Socioeconomic Statistics. c. 2003 Edition, American Medical Association

    How do you account for the average hours/week worked being 50 and the mean salary being only 197K? (Please note I'm not trying to be argumentative, I would just like to know how to interpret these numbers). Thanks.

    *http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin/resweb.nsf/f7d261b19325755a86256f900062b64f/5c5c0feea5f2b28c86256f8f0072b44a?OpenDocument
     
  46. katester25

    katester25 5+ Year Member

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    I don't know if hours have decreased in the ~5 years since that data was collected, but I'd be shocked if salaries haven't gone up.
     

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