2009-2010 Internship Thread

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This is turning into a nightmare for you, Joey. Hope you can find a way out of this mess and back into the position that would be created for you by your top choice.
 
I know not everyone does this, but say some prayers if you can. I have the best people fighting for me now. I hope the position at my top place wasn't filled, and I have the best guy in the world talking to the TD their today on my behalf. I also spoke to a lawyer who thinks that I have a good case in getting out of my contract. My husband and family are pulling for me right now. Of course, the counseling center has no idea what is going on because if I do end back up there I can't make my life absolutely miserable. What a mess. I need something to work out in this process. I am completely beaten down.
 
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Lying to get you to sign a contract has to break some sort of APPIC rule! I am sitting on pins and needles over here hoping you get the site you want. Sending a lot of positive energy and strength your way.
 
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The training director of the site finally wrote me back and told me the full story, which was the one I already discovered. They expected accreditation, but it will be retroactive from the date of the site visit. She should have told me all of this when I asked her. Her answer was still misleading. I hope that if my other one still wants me then she won't want to hold on to me...i fear that ican't really do anything more at this point..
 
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, from my experience sites rarely receive apa-accreditation after their first site visit. I think there was an earlier discussion on this thread about how hard it is for sites to even finish filling out the paperwork and meet the specifications the APA wants (I believe psychmama metioned this). There is one site, Pinecrest, in Louisiana that has been trying to become accredited for a few years and is still waiting (there is a blurb about this on their entry on the APPIC website) and their site visit was in august. Thus, if you are really banking on this site receiving accreditation, you unfortunately may be in for a big let down...
 
Sorry to change the topic a little bit... (I do feel for you JoeyS... I did not match and still haven't found anything).


Does anyone know anything about creating your own internship? There is a state hospital with outpatient clinics near me. I worked in the outpatient setting in the past and they have no internship program. But it would be great if I could approach someone with my own plan of internship and see if anyone would be interested in providing the supervision/evaluation.
 
I did call the APA office today to check on the accreditation process. She told me most sites, or that it is rare, to have more than one site visit. She was very optimistic for me. Bottom line is, they were not fully truthful. I have pigeonholed myself into a possible career I do not want.
 
Eruca said:
Though I don't disagree with your post entirely... I heard this is illegal. An attorney met with the DCTs at a conference recently (per my DCT) and said that basically anything approximating this action is subject to lawsuit. We have a free market system that promotes competition, and enforcing rules that decrease this is an illegal practice. [I have socialistic leanings, so I'm not supporting this, but saying that the APA and/or APPIC put themselves out for an almost sure lawsuit, backed by for-profit businesses that can afford attorneys]
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Its been awhile since I took business law...I know we have several lawyers and former lawyers here so perhaps they can clarify this, but I REALLY doubt that there isn't a way they could get around this. The bigger problem seems to be a general lack of motivation on APA's part to actually do anything because it might upset some people, who for whatever reason, they care about.
 
JoeyS said:
I did call the APA office today to check on the accreditation process. She told me most sites, or that it is rare, to have more than one site visit. She was very optimistic for me. Bottom line is, they were not fully truthful. I have pigeonholed myself into a possible career I do not want.
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I can understand why you're so upset about this. Not matching is bad enough, but then to have this turmoil after must be incredibly frustrating.

I'm curious though why this means your career is over? Are you set on working in a VA? In that case, then yes you need an APA accredited internship. An academic hospital would also be difficult. I guess I'm not clear on what you want to do long term. Doing an internship at a counseling center certainly doesn't equate to a career in the same setting.

I know that people have backed out of internships for other reasons. Honestly, if you are set on something career-wise that requires an APA internship, then I would find every possible way to get out of that site. You said you can't wait another year, but I would think waiting would be preferable to a non-APA slot that would limit what you can do?

If it helps any, a VA internship showed up in clearinghouse last round in late summer (Lexington VA). They got some last minute funding. I'm not sure if you're geographically limited. But APA sites do show up, even after the initial mad rush.

Hang in there.
 
edieb said:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, from my experience sites rarely receive apa-accreditation after their first site visit. I think there was an earlier discussion on this thread about how hard it is for sites to even finish filling out the paperwork and meet the specifications the APA wants (I believe psychmama metioned this). There is one site, Pinecrest, in Louisiana that has been trying to become accredited for a few years and is still waiting (there is a blurb about this on their entry on the APPIC website) and their site visit was in august. Thus, if you are really banking on this site receiving accreditation, you unfortunately may be in for a big let down...
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This is very similar to what I've heard. It is a very involved process, and even with all of the paperwork done, it can still take a great deal of time because of how long it takes to get the feedback, and then to make the changes, get evaluated again, etc.
 
JoeyS, I am sorry to hear about your ordeal, it is such a hard process on many levels. I hope you will find "the least damaging" way to resolve it. I am ciourious though how did you found out about the site ranking? I would LOVE to know how my #1 choice ranked me.
 
Hi all, was matched at a VA in VA:) This forum was a life line for me though i was mainly passive but followed along and took some very valuable information. Thanks and good luck.
 
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The issue has been resolved. My top site offered me a spot, but it turns out that APPIC will not let you out of a spot without a "tear down" of the program you are currently in. You have to make a formal complaint, they have to defend themselves, and even if both parties agree that the applicant should be released, the APPIC still has to decide and I was told that this is highly unlikely. So, I am devastated, but I have decided that I have no choice here. I have too much integrity to hurt people that I know in this counseling center. I will push them for accreditation. I would have pushed this further, but word of mouth vs word of mouth won't hold up with APPIC. I hope everyone can be supportive of my decision. I will definitely consider legal action if they do not get accredited by the time I leave. My eyes hurt and I have been crying all night, but i thought I would let everyone know the outcome...:(
 
JoeyS said:
The issue has been resolved. My top site offered me a spot, but it turns out that APPIC will not let you out of a spot without a "tear down" of the program you are currently in. You have to make a formal complaint, they have to defend themselves, and even if both parties agree that the applicant should be released, the APPIC still has to decide and I was told that this is highly unlikely. So, I am devastated, but I have decided that I have no choice here. I have too much integrity to hurt people that I know in this counseling center. I will push them for accreditation. I would have pushed this further, but word of mouth vs word of mouth won't hold up with APPIC. I hope everyone can be supportive of my decision. I will definitely consider legal action if they do not get accredited by the time I leave. My eyes hurt and I have been crying all night, but i thought I would let everyone know the outcome...:(
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I'm sorry to hear that Joey. Is it possible to apply for internship again next year? You'll have the income from the non-accredited site and you can treat it like a year long prac experience - or is that not allowed? I just hate to see someone get so screwed by this process.

I guess you cant tear up the contract with both sides pretending like it never happened?
 
Joey, I really feel for you. All I can say is that you are a classy applicant. I hope your integrity as well as your strong credentials are rewarded in the end. As others on here have said, this is not the end of the road but rather the beginning. Wishing you a year full of opportunities, and hopefully some good surprises.

best,

psychmama
 
orthogonal said:
I'm sorry to hear that Joey. Is it possible to apply for internship again next year? You'll have the income from the non-accredited site and you can treat it like a year long prac experience - or is that not allowed? I just hate to see someone get so screwed by this process.

I guess you cant tear up the contract with both sides pretending like it never happened?
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From what I've heard this is frowned upon at a minimum, and I'm not sure you can actually re-enter the match if you've already done 1 internship.

Sorry JoeyS, about the outcome.
 
JoeyS, I'm sorry to hear about the crazy roller coaster you've been on. To put it bluntly, it sounds like you are an amazing applicant who happened to be a casualty of the match. I know that doesn't really make it better, but I do think that you will bounce back and have a fantastic career - whatever it is that you want to make of it.

I know it's hard to see it now, but please know that this will not "shatter" your career. Yes, internship can open many doors and give you entree into a postdoc. But I know plenty of great people (some of whom have tenure track faculty positions now) who, for one reason or another, went to a less desirable internship. And for those people, they treated it just as it was: JUST an internship. It's a year, and then you move on. It sounds like you will be very competitive for a postdoc at any number of sites. And even if this place doesn't get accredited in time, for most states all you will have to do is demonstrate that it was the equivalent to an APA-accredited internship. Based on what you have said about this place, it sounds like you will be able to put together the documentation to do so, and you should be fine. Yes, the VA is a potential issue - and maybe one or two random states that require an APA internship for licensure. But that's about it.

When the dust settles, I hope you're able to make the most out of your training experience and kick some butt... :)
 
I appreciate the encouraging words from everyone. They definitely lifted my spirits. The disappointing outcome of this is that I no longer trust my faculty. They were the worst throughout this entire process. When given the opportunity as I was last night, to attend my top site, my advisors had no advice for me, instead directed me to the DCT who then said he had to consult to know what to do. No one knew what to do. I can somewhat understand this, but through the entire application process no one knew anything, not even the DCT. In fact, during the clearinghouse weekend, when APPIC recommends you contact your DCT, mine told me he was too busy with his own issues to help out. There will be no other time in my life where I will have to attend a job and not be able to back out. I also found out they did this to another student this year, along with two others in years past. Who knew there could be such----in grad school. Thank you everyone for telling me that I am doing the right thing by taking the high road. I really do appreciate it..
 
Hey Everyone,
Just wondering with our newly gleamed hindsight, whether anyone would have chosen to do an msw or another field all together?
 
ctpsychology said:
Hey Everyone,
Just wondering with our newly gleamed hindsight, whether anyone would have chosen to do an msw or another field all together?
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Given my career goals (clinical research and practice), I wouldn't have chosen any other path.
 
Yes, med school. Much more respect!I know this from working at a premiere research institution/medical center over the past 7 years...
 
Med school (psychiatry, most likely) for sure. There is SO much more respect, money, etc. given to MDs than PhDs, especially here in Michigan. However, once I realized it would be wise to turn away, it was too late.
 
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edieb said:
Med school (psychiatry, most likely) for sure. There is SO much more respect, money, etc. given to MDs than PhDs, especially here in Michigan. However, once I realized it would be wise to turn away, it was too late.
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Eh. I'm on faculty in a medical school, and I'm perfectly content with my PhD. My MD colleagues enter residency with close to $200K in student loans. Yes, they ultimately make more money, but they're also paying back crazy loans at the same time they're trying to buy houses, start families, etc. From a content perspective, I don't think I could handle 4 years of generalist training before I could even start to specialize (which is obviously necessary in medicine, but not in psychology). Time for research training is hard to carve out with the demands of med school/residency, and that doesn't even include time to actually do the research. Medicine is a great field, but at the same time, I don't have an inferiority complex. ;)
 
LM02 said:
Eh. I'm on faculty in a medical school, and I'm perfectly content with my PhD. My MD colleagues enter residency with close to $200K in student loans. Yes, they ultimately make more money, but they're also paying back crazy loans at the same time they're trying to buy houses, start families, etc. From a content perspective, I don't think I could handle 4 years of generalist training before I could even start to specialize (which is obviously necessary in medicine, but not in psychology). Time for research training is hard to carve out with the demands of med school/residency, and that doesn't even include time to actually do the research. Medicine is a great field, but at the same time, I don't have an inferiority complex. ;)
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LOL :laugh:
 
psychmama said:
EVERYONE from my program matched to APA sites -- which is pretty amazing since there were 26 of us!
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That's incredible! Where are you finishing your schooling? 26 for 26 APA sites is a darn near monopoly. Congratulations! My program matched 2 of 2 that applied.
 
PSY1358 said:
So yes, I was very surprised Friday morning that I was not matched. If I can take any fault in this situation, it would be that I did not send thank you letters, which were discouraged by my program. I
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Sorry to hear about your situation. I don't think you should get down on yourself for not sending thank you letters. It sounds like you interviewed at a lot of sites and gave it the best you could. The process is definitely not a perfect one. Good luck to you...and, of course, ..many hugs.
 
Johnson42 said:
I even made a phone call after one of the interviews stating that I would be surprised if I did not match to that site.
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With this type of match system, it is really hard to tell what sites actually think of the candidates. I honestly felt compelled to try and match to the best interviews to raise my chances, but, in the long run, I ranked the sites highest where I wanted to be. I got the internship I thought I probably wouldn't get since there were tons of highly qualified and impressive applicants at my interview day.
 
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I thought I would switch the topic from internship to post-doc if that is alright. I looked on the threads and there were no topics on this. Since I have come to terms with my counseling center internship, I would love advice from people who have pursued post-docs in medical centers. I especially want a post-doc in anxiety disorders specifically, since that is what I have spent my entire career on (in a medical setting). Any advice? I was also told by my top site (the one that accepted me, but that I can't go to) that an APA post-doc can make up for an non-APA internship. I had never heard of it, and don't think it's true, but he said that it can erase lots of questions on license apps. Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated, as there is no way in a cold frozen over hell I will be willing to go through the match process again...

Hope is on the horizon!!! soon to be
 
psychanon said:
For what it's worth, I've known a few people who have taken non-accredited positions (usually because they wanted to circumvent the match process for whatever reason). It's always worked out fine for them, and they've gone onto prosperous careers. Good luck figuring everything out.
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First, I'd like to thank you for a post well said. I also wonder..on this forum, people often talk about non-accredited positions as if they were non-APA. Were you referring to non-APPIC sites here? Like the kind people go out and get on their own.
 
Jon Snow said:
Seems to me you are under no obligation to attend the site that deceived you. Since the top site is offering you something that is not part of APPIC, the rule doesn't apply. Just decline the offer at the site that deceived you under the grounds that your understanding of the situation is different than what was presented and go to your top site.
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I'd have to agree with Jon Snow....Since you felt like you were slighted and your preferred site now wants to make an offer, I don't see a major issue with repudiating your original APPIC ranking. At least, I would try it.
 
JoeyS, I also have to agree with the others. Go for the created spot. Fight for it and don't back down. Even if you violate APPIC rules, so what? The counseling site lied to you, and you don't have to deal with APPIC anymore anyways.
 
JoeyS said:
I thought I would switch the topic from internship to post-doc if that is alright. I looked on the threads and there were no topics on this. Since I have come to terms with my counseling center internship, I would love advice from people who have pursued post-docs in medical centers. I especially want a post-doc in anxiety disorders specifically, since that is what I have spent my entire career on (in a medical setting). Any advice? I was also told by my top site (the one that accepted me, but that I can't go to) that an APA post-doc can make up for an non-APA internship. I had never heard of it, and don't think it's true, but he said that it can erase lots of questions on license apps. Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated, as there is no way in a cold frozen over hell I will be willing to go through the match process again...

Hope is on the horizon!!! soon to be
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I have a 2 year research/clinical post doc at an academic hospital starting in the fall. The nice thing about the post-doc process is there's no match to deal with. If you have relationships already with people at a center that meets your interests, then leverage those. Do they have funding for post docs? If so, express your interest in coming back there after internship early on. If it's not available, then work the relationships you do have to see what's out there. I know that the hospital I'm going back to requires an APA internship for post-docs. But I suspect if you have an "in" with some people and they know the quality of your work, then you can work around those rules.
 
sicologia said:
That's incredible! Where are you finishing your schooling? 26 for 26 APA sites is a darn near monopoly. Congratulations! My program matched 2 of 2 that applied.
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I'm at Rutgers. We definitely were all surprised. The school's match rate is usually good, but we almost never have this many students applying in the same year. Typically there are about half that number applying. Congratulations to you too.:)
 
JoeyS said:
I thought I would switch the topic from internship to post-doc if that is alright. I looked on the threads and there were no topics on this. Since I have come to terms with my counseling center internship, I would love advice from people who have pursued post-docs in medical centers. I especially want a post-doc in anxiety disorders specifically, since that is what I have spent my entire career on (in a medical setting). Any advice? I was also told by my top site (the one that accepted me, but that I can't go to) that an APA post-doc can make up for an non-APA internship. I had never heard of it, and don't think it's true, but he said that it can erase lots of questions on license apps. Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated, as there is no way in a cold frozen over hell I will be willing to go through the match process again...

Hope is on the horizon!!! soon to be
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maybe stat a whole new thread for post docs, so all info can be cataloged on one place? T4C?
 
[moved to postdoc thread - orthogonal]
 
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has anyone here applied to an internship where they are currently externing and not been matched there? My first choice was the counseling center where I am currently an extern, and I matched at another place much lower on my list. Now I feel disappointed every time I go to my externship because it reminds me that I didn't get in there. I asked people for feedback about my application and they said it was good and they would have been happy to have me as an intern. But I'm bitter that now I will have to commute really far to go to another place :(
 
ClinicalPsycPhD said:
has anyone here applied to an internship where they are currently externing and not been matched there? My first choice was the counseling center where I am currently an extern, and I matched at another place much lower on my list. Now I feel disappointed every time I go to my externship because it reminds me that I didn't get in there. I asked people for feedback about my application and they said it was good and they would have been happy to have me as an intern. But I'm bitter that now I will have to commute really far to go to another place :(
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I have seen this happen, and it stings. Sites try and rank the people the best they can, and often (from what I've been told), there really isn't a difference between #3, #4, and #7, but they need to put down a final list.

On the bright side, you will have an opportunity to have new experiences and may get more out of the experience, instead of staying at the same place.
 
ClinicalPsycPhD said:
has anyone here applied to an internship where they are currently externing and not been matched there? My first choice was the counseling center where I am currently an extern, and I matched at another place much lower on my list. Now I feel disappointed every time I go to my externship because it reminds me that I didn't get in there. I asked people for feedback about my application and they said it was good and they would have been happy to have me as an intern. But I'm bitter that now I will have to commute really far to go to another place :(
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Yup - I feel for you. It really, really sucks. People at my site are being very nice about it but it still hurts.
 
gradpsych said:
Yup - I feel for you. It really, really sucks. People at my site are being very nice about it but it still hurts.
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This also happened to me and I felt devastated. I really thought I did well in the interview and everything. It still hurts but maybe it will be better to get diversity in experience.
 
sicologia said:
First, I'd like to thank you for a post well said. I also wonder..on this forum, people often talk about non-accredited positions as if they were non-APA. Were you referring to non-APPIC sites here? Like the kind people go out and get on their own.
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I'm talking about both non-APPIC and non-APA-- people who decide against going through the match process for one reason or another (usually family-related) and manage to find a non-APA-accredited site in the community.
 
ctpsychology said:
This also happened to me and I felt devastated. I really thought I did well in the interview and everything. It still hurts but maybe it will be better to get diversity in experience.
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Totally - that's what I'm telling myself. There are a lot of advantages to having a more diverse internship experience!
 
Anyone know anything about how student loans work for internship? I'm in the odd position of not currently having any educational loans (yay!) but might need to take some out, since I'm going to be in a high cost of living region on a low stipend. Would I need to talk to my own school's financial aid office, or the financial aid office of the school where my appointment is?
 
psy86 said:
Anyone know anything about how student loans work for internship? I'm in the odd position of not currently having any educational loans (yay!) but might need to take some out, since I'm going to be in a high cost of living region on a low stipend. Would I need to talk to my own school's financial aid office, or the financial aid office of the school where my appointment is?
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You have to be registered (a certain # of units/credits) in order to qualify for financial aid. If you will not be defending your dissertation before you leave for internship and will be registered for dissertation credits, then you may qualify. If you defend before, or will definitely not be registered, then it is quite unlikely you will be eligible. At least this is my understanding...

I don't think being part of a new institution will make any difference, as you are not a 'student' there, you are technically still a student at your home university, since we haven't graduated yet. If someone understands this differently, do let me know though...
 
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I didn't match this year, but I was able to secure a non-APA, APPIC approved internship at a university counseling center through the Clearinghouse. Although I am getting more and more excited about my upcoming internship as it is a great match in terms of my interests, I am a little uncertain about how the non-APA accrediation will affect my plans to obtain a post-doc position after internship. I am considering post-docs at university counseling centers that may be quite competitive.

Will the fact that I interned at a non-accredited program be a handicap (or even a screening criteria, that sites will not even consider my application) in obtaining a post-doc position?

If anyone has any insight about this, or stories of non-APA site interns obtaining competitive post-doc positions, please share with me.
 
I got this from last years internship thread:

I think there should be a new DSM-IV diagnosis: Pre-Interview Notification Stress Disorder (PINSD).
Criteria:
A) Is is in the process or just before the process of receiving interview invitations for a desired position. May include internship, graduate school, faculty or post-doctoral positions.
B) Experiences three (3) or more of the following:
1) rapid heart palpitations, hyperventilation, or other anxiety-related symptoms experienced when email inbox includes one or more new messages.
2) Devastation and anger upon realization that new emails from research assistants, advisor, family, friends, businesses, or other non-interview related sources.
3) Daze-like psychological state and/or psychosomatic symptoms such as nausea or headaches.
4) Hatred of weekends or holidays, due to belief that interviews will not be dispensed at these times.
5) Excessive procrastination (e.g., internet, TV, even cleaning) in order to distract from email for only a moment.
6) Neglect of health, relationships, schoolwork, and social life as a result of excessive email checking.
7) Carpel tunnel syndrome or other repetitive motion disorder from excessive inbox checking.
8) Doing stupid things like writing criteria for a fake disorder for an anonymous internet forum rather than working on dissertation.
Symptoms must be present for at least one week and must cause marked impairment or distress.[/I]

Thought it would make some of us laugh....... I am sending everyone positive vibes and hoping we get some good news :xf:
 
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