Therapist4Chnge

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I was curious about the neuro match results, and they were about what I expected. For those considering neuropsychology as a speciality, I'd encourage you to look through the numbers and use it as motivation to work your butt off.

It is important to note that there are many sites (some of whom are excellent programs) that do not participate in the Match. The high number of people who did not submit rankings may have found positions elsewhere, so keep that in mind. There are also some people who find informal training opportunities to address their training needs.

The bottom line is that someone who wants to receive neuropsychology training during their post-doc year(s) can find it, though there can be a great variance in the overall training opportunities...which may or may not impact your competitiveness as a professional down the road (or at least in the beginning). I'd strongly recommend only looking at positions that meet Division 40 / Houston Guideline Standards, particularly with the trend of more neuropsychology people persuing boarding. Much like APA v. APPIC acred., you can find sites that don't meet the D40 / HG standards that are still wonderful training sites, but some of the more competitive jobs will require them.

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Summary Results of the Match for Positions Beginning in 2010

APPLICANTS
Applicants Registered in the Match: 187
Applicants Who Withdrew or Did Not Submit Ranks: 62
Applicants Participating in the Match: 125

Match Results
Applicants Matched: 84 (67%)
Participating Applicants Not Matched: 41 (33%)

APPLICANT RANKINGS

Average Number of Rankings Submitted Per Applicant
Matched Applicants: 6.2
Unmatched Applicants: 3.8
Overall: 5.4

PROGRAMS

Training Sites Participating in the Match: 59
Programs Participating in the Match: 72
Positions Offered in the Match: 89

Note:
A training site can offer more than one "program" in the Match. Each "program" is identified in the Match by a unique 4-digit code number.

MATCH RESULTS

Positions:
Filled in the Match: 84 (94%)
Remaining Unfilled: 5 (6%)

Programs:
Filled in the Match: 67 (93%)
With Unfilled Positions: 5 (7%)

Note: One unfilled program with 1 unfilled position asked to be omitted from the list of programs with available positions after the Match.

PROGRAM RANKINGS

Average Number of Applicants Ranked Per Position Offered for Each Program
Programs Filling All Positions: 8.1

Programs with Unfilled Positions: 6.0

All Programs: 8.0
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Apr 1, 2010
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I'm so glad you provided this information, however, I'm very new to the graduate school world (still dunno how I got accepted but not complaining).

Could you explain in layman's terms what this is essentially saying?

I ultimately want to be a board certified NP.
 

dekared82

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Thanks for providing this information T4C...as I was one of the 60+ applicants who registered for the Match but withdrew because I was offered a position that better suited my interests.

From what I gather from the stats, there were more applicants vying for accredited postdoc positions than last year, but the percentage of applicants (67%) who were successful in securing a postdoc was similar to last year, which is still relatively low, compared with APPIC internship match rates (75%). If you are interested in getting board certification in neuropsych, many will go through the Match, but as you said, there are also great sites that do participate in the match, and may or may not align with Houston/ Division 40 guidelines. In addition there are many neuropsych positions with different foci and strengths depending on your area of interests (e.g., neuro-rehab, oncology, developmental disabilities, chronic illnesses, etc), so do a lot of research and find places that you see yourself gaining expertise in.

I am not sure if this is true, but I have been told that percentage of applicants who matched at an adult neuropsych postdoc are lower (~60%) than those who match at a child neuropsych postdoc (~70%). Is there any data to confirm?
 

erg923

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I'm so glad you provided this information, however, I'm very new to the graduate school world (still dunno how I got accepted but not complaining).

Could you explain in layman's terms what this is essentially saying?

I ultimately want to be a board certified NP.
To me it means..... its a long hard road with too little in compensation (given that you're are sacrificing 2 years of earning potential) that requires total geographic mobility in order to apply to enough post-docs to even be competitive for them....no thanks......This is not the lifestyle my wife and I desire.

If you want to go to post-doc that is not division 40 compliant, it may be relatively easey to get a spot in one (but again, need to be mobile). However, these post-docs limit your competitvness for jobs and you would have to prove to the committe that your training was adaquate should you choose to pursue boarding.
 
Apr 1, 2010
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To me it means..... its a long hard road with too little in compensation (given that you're are sacrificing 2 years of earning potential) that requires total geographic mobility in order to apply to enough post-docs to even be competitive for them....no thanks......This is not the lifestyle my wife and I desire.

If you want to go to post-doc that is not division 40 compliant, it may be relatively easey to get a spot in one (but again, need to be mobile). However, these post-docs limit your competitvness for jobs and you would have to prove to the committe that your training was adaquate should you choose to pursue boarding.
Thanks. I am single and 24 so I would be entering a post-doc at 29 and don't plan on having a family (but you never know). So you are saying that for the amount of time and money you spend pursuing the specialization in neuropsych, it is not worth it in the end (low return on investment?)

I am really interested in this field and also plan on applying for the HPSP. I'm sure there would be opportunity for Neuro with PTSD and TMI patients on base. But if ultimately it isn't going to offer the compensation I expect, $100,000+ after 5 years working or so, I wouldn't feel compensated enough for my efforts.

Is this the same with neuropsychologists working in the forensic aspect?
 

erg923

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:laugh:.......well if you want to live and breathe your work and die alone, thats your choice, but I would entertain the possibility that your attitude will change as you mature.

My feeling is that, in general, the neuro post is not a wise econmic investment, especialy considering the extra work it takes before and after the ph.d. The average neuropsychologist makes 6, 7, 8k more per year than the average clinical psychologist. Its not enough to justify it for me. You should not expect to start at 100k after your post-doc, frankly, not even close unless you are doing 2 or 3 different jobs or fall into a thriving group PP. The range is wide, but I would realistically excpect 65k in many parts of the country...probably 75-80k or so in cal and the north east. Dont expect many salary postions to go above 100k.
 
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Therapist4Chnge

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The average neuropsychologist makes 6, 7, 8k more per year than the average clinical psychologist. Its not enough to justify it for me.
I think there is a greater opportunity to make money as a specialist than as a generalist. I am rather disheartened by the small pay difference for neuro staff positions, but I think the more entrepreneurial people have a greater earning potential. I also think prestige can pay off for those who use it effectively.

Much like business and law schools, if you can go to a "name" program or a well connected program, it is worth it in the long run. I was pretty impressed by the types of placements fellows got from some of the places I interviewed. Obviously it will still take a lot of hard work, but all of the fellows seemed to skip over general staff positions and move right into upper-level positions within hospitals and specialty programs. It won't be easy, but considering the glut of psychologists out there, I'm looking for every chance to differentiate myself as I can find. Boarding is the second piece to the equation, as the expectation at all of the places I interviewed at was to work towards boarding, and most of the fellows i spoke to said this was pretty much a requirement at the jobs they accepted. (Some were Rehab Fellows and others were Neuro Fellows).
 
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Can someone please explain to me what it means if the Div40 website lists a program as a post doc neuro placement, but it is not accredited by the APA and/or not a member of the APPCN? Does this mean that the training may be applied toward licensing hours, but you can not become a Board certified Neuro. with it?
 

Therapist4Chnge

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Can someone please explain to me what it means if the Div40 website lists a program as a post doc neuro placement, but it is not accredited by the APA and/or not a member of the APPCN? Does this mean that the training may be applied toward licensing hours, but you can not become a Board certified Neuro. with it?
Awhile back Div40 came up with guidelines for neuropsychology training. These guidelines have informed training programs, internships, and fellowships about what is recommended to be a neuropsychologist.

The most common way to find a neuro fellowship is through the Match, though unlike the internship Match, there are quite a few sites who functioning outside of the Match. It is still important to meet the guidelines, though not everyone who goes for additional neuropsychology training that meets the guideline standards. I'm not sure how the ABPP requirements match up with the Div 40 requirements, though I'm sure ABPP addresses that on their website.

APA-acred at the fellowship level is less important. For neuro, it is more important that the program meets the guidelines referenced above. You can find great training at a non-match, non-APA, Div 40 guidelines site. With that being said, it seems that most of the top neuro sites are in the Match, and the vast majority of neuro people apply for the match. I'll defer to Jon Snow and Neuro-Dr for some of the more specific questions as my focus for fellowships leaned more towards rehabilitation.

Licensing hours are dictated by each state's licensing board. There are usually very clear requirements about collecting hours post-doctorally towards licensure. Hopefully that helps.
 
Feb 27, 2010
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Thanks T-4-C.

One more question...If a program participates in the match, is listed on Div40 website as a training site, but not a member of APPCN, can I assume it meets the Houston guidelines.
 

Therapist4Chnge

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Thanks T-4-C.

One more question...If a program participates in the match, is listed on Div40 website as a training site, but not a member of APPCN, can I assume it meets the Houston guidelines.
While I wouldn't want to assume anything, I'd be surprised if Div40 listed a training site on their webpage that didn't meet their recommendations. It is good practice (at least I found) to call up each site you are interesting in applying to and ask them any questions you have about their particular site. I started my search early (September), so I had to check to see if sites were going to offer a spot for the upcoming cycle, because APPCN didn't have an up to date listing of participating sites until November. Most of the TD's were more than happy to speak with me about their sites, the general training goals, and what they have to offer.