* * 2011-2012 Letter of Recommendation Thread!! * *

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The physician I am shadowing said she would be happy to have me write anything i want on a LOR as she thinks I would be an awesome pediatrician (she is a pediatrician). How in the hell am I going to write my own LOR from a physician. If anyone has any tips at all, I would greatly appreciate it. PM me.

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The physician I am shadowing said she would be happy to have me write anything i want on a LOR as she thinks I would be an awesome pediatrician (she is a pediatrician). How in the hell am I going to write my own LOR from a physician. If anyone has any tips at all, I would greatly appreciate it. PM me.

Damn... That's like a gift. Write yourself an awesome letter. Include what you did on her service, then other stuff she may or may not know about you and then how "you'd make an excellent pediatrician".
 
Why wouldn't they? They're not looking at whether or not you've researched the MD degree and agree with the "MD" philosophy as DO schools are when asking for a DO letter.

When I applied to UMKC (MD)'s 6 yr BA/MD, I asked if I could use a DO letter (since my top choice was NSU-COM which required a DO letter). They said no to the D) (hehe that rhymes).

I disagree. Depends on the situation and how that day is spent. I spent a good day with an ER doc when I was applying and another couple hours just us talking and I think that's plenty of time for someone to get a decent idea of who you are and what your future plans are.

You could spend 80 hours shadowing a doc yet he knows next to nothing about you as an applicant because nothing was ever talked about and all you did was watched and asked the occasional question. I think someone would be able to write a much stronger letter even after just a couple hours of good conversation compared to many hours of just shadowing if nothing of substance was talked about.

If you think half a day of shadowing is not ok then think about what med schools have to go on to make their decision about you.... your statement, app, and then maybe an hour of actual personal interaction.

I absolutely agree it depends on the situation, but lets be realistic here... Which is more likely, shadowing a doctor for three hours and them getting to know you, or you shadowing them for multiple days or weeks, at different locations etc... I'd much rather put the extra time in and ensure a phenomenal letter than bullsh*t a few hours walking around and then asking for a LOR.

I think it's great that residents and new attendings "understand" the hoops pre-meds have to jump through, but you can't spare a few hours a week getting as close to being a physician as you can really get before med school and residency? Personally, shadowing is oen of my favorite things to do. Not only can I ask the doctor questions and watch procedures, but I get to talk to the patients. Just yesterday I did a 5 hour stint with a P&R surgeon. He was removing a ganglion cyst from a woman's tendon on her hand. She was anesthetized locally, and all three of us were talking about what the problem was, and it was extremely informative and interesting.

About the latter -- I totally agree how hasty and cursory college and med school applications can be, but with the amount of people applying each year, I think they've secured a pretty solid system over the past decades. Sure, there are a handful of students who don't get into schools they deserved, but hey, that's life and happens every where else in the professional world. Just my two cents.
 
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Thanks for the advice! I did ask for a letter of rec when I called, but I only had contact with his nurse, so I'm not sure if she ever passed the messsage. But getting coffee to talk so he can get to know me is a GREAT idea.
 
Do you have a committee letter? If you're attending a school with TA office hours you should have had a pre-med committee before you graduated.

What have you done since graduation? Do you have a boss you can get a LOR from? A co-worker? Did you establish any relationship with a professor during undergrad?
 
when are the LORs due????

when you submit your secondaries to all of the schools that's when they will ask for them. If you're applying now, you will probably start receiving secondaries mid-late june
 
Do you really intend to apply to 47 programs? That's insane.

I suggest you start e-mailing all the schools with your problem and see if they can accept letter substitutions.
 
I posted this a while ago, but will schools look at LOR's in addition to ones they asked for? I know I will have letters from a DO and a couple of profs, but I will have one other one from my University President that would be beneficial for them to see.
 
I posted this a while ago, but will schools look at LOR's in addition to ones they asked for? I know I will have letters from a DO and a couple of profs, but I will have one other one from my University President that would be beneficial for them to see.

Yes you can send additional LORs just dont send like ten LORs because then they would probably get annoyed.
 
sorry, irrelevant post. :$
 
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so, i'm a bit bummed abt something.. one of my LOR (major ones i guess) is from a physician..

i kinda asked this physician for a few copies of the letter, as i'm also applying to a few mbbs programs which require it, and also to send for interfolio. lol, i guess, all of a sudden, before gathering all my thoughts together, it was a bit too much, as I had the person fill out a grad studies form, write two letters (one general and one specific), and one other form for a foreign med school, and then asked for those copies of letter (including sending one to interfolio). i didn't ask it all at once, so i guess i shud've gathered my thoughts and finalised before i asked.

but anywayz, my referee said yes for letters (i think), but for further ref. material, i'll hav to arrange myself. :( kinda bummed, because this was my major activity, for med app, and major ref as well. ofcourse, doctors are busy people, so i shud've been more careful. but this means, MSU ref. is out of the question. :(:(:(:(

any advices on how to handle this situation?:(


Not gonna lie, I have no idea what this is saying.
 
Not gonna lie, I have no idea what this is saying.


nvm; i just make confusing crazy posts when i'm a bit upset. i was just going a bit frustrated with the whole referee finding process. lol. plz ignore that post, it's all fine. *embarassed*
 
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I requested letters from 3 teachers and asked them to upload the letters to interfolio. At the time all 3 teachers agreed. Now one of the teachers is "unsure" and would feel more comfortable sending out the letters individually to the schools I applied to :mad:! Is this going to hold up my application? I am already applying late-ish (September) and the other 2 teachers and 2 doctors I have letters from uploaded them to Interfolio so I'll have 4 letters coming from interfolio and one mailed in to each school. Should I ask another teacher? My school is not in the state I'm currently living in and I just graduated so going in and meeting teachers is going to be suppper hard! I may just have to beg over email.

Advice? Thanks guys!
 
How much of a disadvantage do you think I will have if my committee doesnt get me my letter until September? Do you think I should submit the secondaries with the letters I already do have which would be my orgo teacher, an md and possibly a do, and my health clinic volunteer coordinator and then submit the committee letter when I get it in september? Should i submit md and do letter even if i think md letter would be better?
 
I asked my Gen.Chem professor for a letter of recommendation for the TOUROCOM-NY Masters program (bridge to med school).

I'm really a noob in all this, but in what form should these letters be? Can they be in regular envelopes and I just personally mail them out? Or do the envelopes need to be sealed with like an official school stamp or something?

Thanks for your insight. I'm really new at this, so I wanna make sure I do everything right.
 
You could make an Interfolio account and tell all your LOR writers to send them directly there, this way you won't have to ask them for the letter multiple times. Interfolio keeps all LORs and sends as a packet to designated schools.
 
I asked my Gen.Chem professor for a letter of recommendation for the TOUROCOM-NY Masters program (bridge to med school).

I'm really a noob in all this, but in what form should these letters be? Can they be in regular envelopes and I just personally mail them out? Or do the envelopes need to be sealed with like an official school stamp or something?

Thanks for your insight. I'm really new at this, so I wanna make sure I do everything right.

You CANNOT mail them out yourself. I had to submit everything to a premed office and sign a waiver saying that I had never read or seen any of my LORs. Also, everything has to be on official letterhead and signed. I ran into an issue with a professor just emailing a copy of the LOR to the premed office without a signature and just as a word document. I then had to contact the prof and have her print it out on official letterhead, sign it, and mail it, which delayed the whole process by weeks (professors are busy). Interfolio or VirtualEvals (I used the latter) are the way to go.
 
Interfolio... it's easier for them and you, and they'll be stored securely for 3 years or something...
 
First Post... great site and forum.

Question:

I am a little confused about the letter of recommendations. I see in the original post that you need so many science letters and non-science letters. However, my school has a committee that wrote my letter. Do I now have to get LORs from individual faculty members as well?

According to NYCOM's website (a school I will be applying to):
"Pre-Professional evaluation letters should be completed and sent either directly to the college by the applicant's pre-professional committee or applicants may submit their evaluation letters using Virtual Evals. Applicants may substitute evaluations from no less than three faculty members, two of whom teach sciences, if their college lacks a pre-professional committee."

So if you have a pre-professional committee write the letter, do you not need two science and one non-science letters? Is this how it is for every school?

Thanks for the help!
 
1. What kinds of letters do I need to apply to DO schools?

It depends on the school. Almost all DO schools ask from a letter from a DO. The other letters are usually requested to come from science faculty who know you well and whom you have worked closely with in research, etc.

1a. But doesn't every school have different letter requirements?

Not always, but frequently.

1b. Do I have to have a letter from a DO?

Ok, let's logically think about this. Almost all of the DO schools either REQUIRE or STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you have a letter from a DO. If I am sitting on an admissions committee, what I am I supposed to think of the applicant who could not get a letter of recommendation from a DO that they were REQUIRED to shadow? Yes, you do need a letter from a DO. Not having one just ended your application to a school that requires one, and sent your application to the bottom of the pile at schools that STRONLY RECOMMEND a letter.

1c. But do I really really have to get X type of letter? (2 non-science, 1 science, a letter from my PI)

Follow directions. The application process is not only the process where schools will get to know you better, but is also an exercise in attention to details and following directions. So yes, you DO really have to get X type of letter.

2. I am a non-traditional student and have been out of school for awhile. Can I get around the letter requirements?

No. Shadow a DO (which is usually required for letter #1). For additional letters, volunteer, do more shadowing, or hunt down that professor that you knew really well.

3. My school has a pre-medical school admissions committee, and they produce a committee letter. But the letter won't be released until really LATE! (August, September, October). Can I just skip the committee and collect my own letters?

This can be difficult to answer. If you are applying early decision, most schools with a committee will require you to show proof of this and will get the letter ready ahead of time. My school had a committee and I chose not to use it and did not have any problems. In fact, the committee letters are generally so generic, that most admissions committees look at the first two sentences then toss them (I was told this by a medical school admissions director).

4. How/when can I submit LORs to AACOMAS?

Start by reading the AACOMAS directions which someone spent a great deal of time writing.

5. Do I have to know which letters are going to which school when I first submit my AACOMAS application?

No. But again, see the answer to question #4

6. Is it in my best interest to have my letter writers write different letters for each school?

No. Even if by some slim chance that someone on an admissions committee at school A knows someone on an admissions committee at school B, and they do discuss an applicant (which at this point we are talking about a 1:1,000,000,000,000,000……. chance), they know that one letter is usually written for an applicant from a faculty member or physician and sent to each school. Don't ask for a different letter either, you will likely get a weird look, and worst case no letter.

7. What are letter services such as Interfolio, and why do people use them?

The letter services are in operation to make things easier. People use them for an easier method to send letters, etc. However, I have found that most letter writers hate using this, and would rather see self-addressed, stamped envelopes. Remember, some of the people who will write your letters are old and will not have kept up with the technology. The other downside, Interfolio charges for the letter service; and it is a lot more than a stamp.

8. What else about letters do I need to know?

I will repeat some good advice left by the last person; and please FOLLOW DIRECTIONS! Your letter must be SIGNED, and should be on OFFICIAL LETTERHEAD whenever possible. This is something that holds people up every year. Some schools will even hold up your application because of this.

.ALSO, VERY IMPORTANT! You CANNOT mail out your own letters. This is one of the seven deadly sins in applying to medical school and can end your career when discovered..

9. How should I ask someone for a letter of req?

Previous advice on this topic is good.

(On this one, I will give CougarMD's advice from the allo thread
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For each letter writer, I prepared a packet. In the packet I had:
A list of all of my science grades (or non-science grades for a non-science prof)
A copy of my resume
A rough draft of my personal statement
A guide to writing medical school letters (which can be found by googling), a reminder that the letter needed to be signed and on letterhead.

Before handing them this (because who wants all that before they even say yes!) I asked them point blank if they "would feel comfortable writing me a strong letter of recommendation for medical school". Always do this in person!!! If they hesitate...walk away. Seriously. You don't want this person writing your letter.

When they enthusiastically said yes, I pulled the packet out of my backpack and gave it to them.

Because I used Interfolio, I did not need to provide them with my AMCAS ID or Letter ID, but instead told them that they would get an email from Interfolio that evening with instructions on how to upload the letter. Give them a FIRM deadline (2-4 weeks seems to work best) for when you need the letter. Don't ask at the last minute. Don't ask when you think a billion other people will be asking. Do offer to provide them with any other supplementary information they would like. And do give them a thank-you note (and maybe a Starbucks card) when they submit the letter.

10. OMG! My letter writer has not written my letter!!! It has been minutes/hours/days/weeks/months and I'm freaking out!! What do I do!?

The advice below is sound.

First, stop by or email and gently remind them that you need the letter by X date. If this doesn't work, I have given them a premature Thank-You note with a small token, and this seems to light a fire. I recommended this method to someone on SDN last year and it apparently worked like a charm.

If this isn't working....you do the same thing you do whenever something goes awry - find a plan B. Ask someone else...two other people even, just in case this person does not come through. You can't have too many letters. But you can have too few.

11. Do I have to waive my right to see the letters?

No. But if you don't schools might not see them as letters that carry much weight. Waive your right. If you know the person well enough, you should have a pretty good idea of what they are going to write.

You also usually have to indicate this BEFORE handling the letter to the writer. I know that one of my writers had another student ask him for a letter without waiver and he refused to write the letter; I would have done the same.

12. Can I submit my application without the letters? Say I have an extra LOR that I'd like to send to all my schools, do I have to snail mail it to them all?

Good advice below.

You can add a letter at ANY time in AACOMAS, have it sent to AACOMAS, and AACOMAS will distribute it. You may want to shoot an email to each school letting them know to expect another letter just in case. They should be updating your file continuously (they will want your current contact info, and often people change their addresses mid cycle) but they may not always do it in a timely manner.
 
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Just an update, I think I may have secured a DO LOR. A DO that I have been shadowing has graciously agreed to write me one. What do schools want in these LOR's? Also, for schools like LECOM that absolutely require a DO letter, does the letter writer have to include any specifics about osteopathic medicine? I mean, this doc just practiced medicine, no osteopathic principles, omm or whatnot.
 
So i have a question on choosing which letters I will send schools. First off I have a strong physician letter from an MD. He has known me all my life and i have shadowed him. I do not have a DO letter yet but I am working on contacting some DO's in my area but obviously that letter will not be very strong as he wont know me that well but the one I have in mind did go to the Kirksville school in missouri which is one of my top choices. So do you think schools that will let me send MD or DO letter i should just send my MD letter or both?
Second question, I will not have my premed committee letter until September. If I will have a letter from both physicians, clinical volunteer coordinator, and science professor can I submit my secondary with these letters earlier and tell them my committee letter will be there in September? Do you think they may offer an interview still early with only these letters or will they wait on my committee letter? I would hate if that would really put me at a big disadvantage.
Thanks everyone for your help and good luck this year!
 
So i have a question on choosing which letters I will send schools. First off I have a strong physician letter from an MD. He has known me all my life and i have shadowed him. I do not have a DO letter yet but I am working on contacting some DO's in my area but obviously that letter will not be very strong as he wont know me that well but the one I have in mind did go to the Kirksville school in missouri which is one of my top choices. So do you think schools that will let me send MD or DO letter i should just send my MD letter or both?
Second question, I will not have my premed committee letter until September. If I will have a letter from both physicians, clinical volunteer coordinator, and science professor can I submit my secondary with these letters earlier and tell them my committee letter will be there in September? Do you think they may offer an interview still early with only these letters or will they wait on my committee letter? I would hate if that would really put me at a big disadvantage.
Thanks everyone for your help and good luck this year!

cwaranch,

You almost universally have to include a DO letter. More often than not it is required, and if not required then it is always strongly encouraged. Applying to a DO school without a letter from a DO would be like applying to graduate school for genetics research with a letter from a Spanish professor. You really do need a DO letter. School are very aware that you may not have spent much time with the DO. I spent about 35 hours and received a letter that the committee said was one of the most glowing letters they had read. So don't worry so much about the contact time.

Also, having an MD letter from a physician you have known all your life may not be a good thing. Does he really know how you will perform or is this something more personal. I would call and ask a school before sending this. It could be seen as a real crony letter.
 
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How many letters is too many, I will have 8 by the end of this year most likely, and am wondering if that will be too many, I have one that I can cut right now, because I got it a couple years ago.
 
So I've heard that some DO schools prefer a LOR from a DO (rather than an MD). But most websites just say "physician letter." Will some schools flat out refuse to take an MD letter?
 
You need to look at the school's website or call them up and ask. There's a packet with all the schools' general data in it on AACOMAS that tells you. Some schools "prefer" a DO letter over a MD's, and some schools will only take DO letters. If you're applying to DO schools, I think it's just better to have a DO to cover all your bases.
 
The schools I applied to (PCOM, PCOM-GA, UNECOM, NOVA) accept an MD letter. I know that the LECOMs absolutely require a DO letter, an LOR from an MD will not be accepted in lieu of a DO letter.

Take a look at the AACOMAS CIB. It outlines each school's LOR requirement.
 
The schools I applied to (PCOM, PCOM-GA, UNECOM, NOVA) accept an MD letter. I know that the LECOMs absolutely require a DO letter, an LOR from an MD will not be accepted in lieu of a DO letter.

Take a look at the AACOMAS CIB. It outlines each school's LOR requirement.

Same goes for the VCOMs, and I'm pretty sure also for DMUCOM and WVSOM.
 
Do they care how you got your MD LOR? I got an MD LOR but it was from my volunteer work with the national melanoma awareness project not from any clinical or shadowing experiences.

Edit: I called western and they said that it doesn't matter. Don't know about the rest.
 
ok. so, I only have a DO letter requested right now.

My question is, are there any MD/DO schools that require a MD letter?

I have a few people I can ask, but I just don't want to request it if I don't have to.
 
So I am going to be applying in June, but the doctor I am shadowing to write a letter of rec is going on vacation soon and won't be back til July, which is when he will write the letter. Is it possible to add the letter of rec to AACOMAS after I send the application out??
 
So I am going to be applying in June, but the doctor I am shadowing to write a letter of rec is going on vacation soon and won't be back til July, which is when he will write the letter. Is it possible to add the letter of rec to AACOMAS after I send the application out??

LORs are not sent to AACOMAS. You send your LORs directly to the school after you receive their secondary application.
 
what about thru interfolio?

AACOMAS and Interfolio are two different entities. It's just that they work closely on the DO application process.

You can have your writers upload the LOR's at any point, your secondaries won't be processed until they are recieved but you even submit the secondaries without the letters.

The way it works is you submit your primaries, which are just demographic info and your stats, personal statement, and some vague EC descriptions. A couple of weeks later you'll start getting asked for secondaries which include essays, detailed EC descriptions, and perhaps a few other things depending on school. The secondaries are submitted online through each school's website (you'll be given access to a secure location to complete it). The other part of the secondaries is the LOR's which you will have stashed at Interfolio. After you submit your secondary online, you're given an address to enter into Interfolio. You then go to Interfolio and have them send a copy of whatever letter(s) you want sent to the school.

So you don't need to worry much until you want your secondaries completed. July will still be PLENTY early for that.

Best of luck!

SLC
 
You can send your letter to the school through Interfolio. I was just pointing out that you don't need to worry about sending letters to AACOMAS :)

oh gotcha, thanks!

AACOMAS and Interfolio are two different entities. It's just that they work closely on the DO application process.

You can have your writers upload the LOR's at any point, your secondaries won't be processed until they are recieved but you even submit the secondaries without the letters.

The way it works is you submit your primaries, which are just demographic info and your stats, personal statement, and some vague EC descriptions. A couple of weeks later you'll start getting asked for secondaries which include essays, detailed EC descriptions, and perhaps a few other things depending on school. The secondaries are submitted online through each school's website (you'll be given access to a secure location to complete it). The other part of the secondaries is the LOR's which you will have stashed at Interfolio. After you submit your secondary online, you're given an address to enter into Interfolio. You then go to Interfolio and have them send a copy of whatever letter(s) you want sent to the school.

So you don't need to worry much until you want your secondaries completed. July will still be PLENTY early for that.

Best of luck!

SLC

wow awesome thanks so much!
 
I tried finding posts about this but they were old. I just finished up post-bac so I have little to no time to shadow a doctor before I submit my application. I have family friends I could shadow, albeit they are all MDs. How imperative is it for me to get a DO rec. I have a 3.74 gpa overall, 3.84 science (4.0 post bac at Penn), and unknown mcat. Will my stats offset the rec?
 
Look in the letter of rec thread, there are lots of questions about it in there. It would be in your best interest to get one, some schools require a DO letter, but others don't.
 
Do I need a physician rec to apply allopathic? I could have easily gotten one years ago but I have since been away from hospital doing post-bac work. How should I go about getting a letter now from a DO? Call up a hospital ED and tell them I need a rec and ask if I can be set up with someone?
 
I tried finding posts about this but they were old. I just finished up post-bac so I have little to no time to shadow a doctor before I submit my application. I have family friends I could shadow, albeit they are all MDs. How imperative is it for me to get a DO rec. I have a 3.74 gpa overall, 3.84 science (4.0 post bac at Penn), and unknown mcat. Will my stats offset the rec?

You need a letter from a DO.
 
Depends where you are applying to.

The school I'm going to didn't require it, and I didn't submit mine (even though I had one).

But it's definitely best to get one if you can.
 
Heyy guys so the DO i was shadowing said for me to write my OWN letter of recommendation. Does anyone have any samples of any? or any that they also wrote themselves and had the DO just sign off on it??
 
I would strongly oppose to doing this...
Shame on the doc, this would never look good if an ADCOMS asked you about the letter and you confessed you wrote it, or lied and said you didn't.
either way, it's a lose lose.

Find another doc and get some quality exposure, even if it's only for a few weeks in the afternoons whatever, make a bond with s doc, get to know them, and them to get to know you.
 
Just curious, why you want to spend the rest of your career in a field where you have not direct clinical exposure as proven by at the least a letter of recommendation?
I think the loR is in your best interest as well, not just for application's sake.
 
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