2017-2018 Baylor College of Medicine

[bluuberries]

Heard through the grapevine about someone getting a call today. Keep those paranoia levels up!!!

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[Doctor_Honey_Bear]

Heard through the grapevine about someone getting a call today. Keep those paranoia levels up!!!

IS or OOS?

 

[pessimist22]

IS or OOS?

IS

 

[daisydukes99]

Good luck to everyone still in process!! I've been reading this post for while and it's so nice to hear from people going through same process as me!

Accepted yesterday! Did anyone accepted yesterday get the email with the forms yet?

are you IS or OOS?

 

[TX699]

SDN is so helpful last few years (Thanks!!!). Accepted this morning, IS, LizzyM 76, ORM, interviewed last September

 

[modernfamily23]

Sorry didn't post more (it was my first SDN post ever). IS! Don't give up! This process was difficult for me and I'm so grateful to be out of it. Feel free to message me!

 

[Doctor_Honey_Bear]

Good luck to everyone still in process!! I've been reading this post for while and I'm so thankful to hear from people going through same process as me!

Accepted yesterday! Did anyone accepted yesterday get the email with the forms yet?

SDN is so helpful last few years (Thanks!!!). Accepted this morning, IS, LizzyM 76, ORM, interviewed last September

Sorry didn't post more (it was my first SDN post ever). IS! Don't give up! This process was difficult for me and I'm so grateful to be out of it. Feel free to message me!

Really great to hear from you guys. I’m really proud for you both. There was some talk about paper work a couple pages ago, but from what I remember them saying, they said it was slow... imagine that lol

 

[pabama14]

Accepted this morning via phone call - OOS applicant

 

[Doctor_Honey_Bear]

Accepted this morning via phone call - OOS applicant

Congrats! Do you mind sharing stats?

 

[#thriving]

Congrats to all those hearing back these past couple days! I guess this must be the "we accept a majority of people in March" wave...lol... keeping my fingers crossed the rest of us hear some good news

 

[Lusheeta]

Good luck to everyone still in process!! I've been reading this post for while and I'm so thankful to hear from people going through same process as me!

Accepted yesterday! Did anyone accepted yesterday get the email with the forms yet?

I was accepted yesterday as well! Yes, I got the email with the forms pretty recently. Excited to meet you!

 

[Lusheeta]

~~~~~

Pardon the "home team cheering" for BCM...some encouragement for those who fathom that the wait for that call from BCM will NEVER end!

A word of encouragement about timing of interviews vis-a-vis your prospects at BCM...

Our daughter had been complete a bit late back in 2012...she got her OOS interview for the very last date back then, toward the end of February.

She got accepted in early May from BCM's WL. She immediately gave back her prior acceptance to our lone home-state public medical school, and called a few others others to drop her name from their WL's. BCM also offered her a 50% merit scholarship...she would have readily accepted without the scholarship. She had earlier respectfully declined an acceptance to Vermont/UVM, partly because it was so expensive to go there...even with a possible scholarship, it would have still been very expensive. (Vermont the state is so small that they interview and accept most of their classes from OOS.)

Looking back, it was her most important acceptance anywhere. She would go on to score 93rd percentile on both Steps 1 and 2. (BCM often leads, or is near the top, in average Step scores among all medical schools...and the Steps are the litmus test for competitive residency interviews.)

After she decided a bit late (after a late optional rotation) on Ortho-- having passed on initial first choice derm (too monotonous), and passed on optho (too one-organ focused), plastics (too much vanity surgery), and ENT (real world practice is a lot of tonsils and ear tubes)-- she landed many of the highly competitive Ortho interviews she sought (several top 20 programs), even though Ortho has been the last bastion of male-dominated specialties (maybe just 10% females out there, lowest of any specialty). She then got her first choice in the VERY SELECTIVE Ortho match.

BCM had been a challenge to be sure, but the atmosphere was collegial and supportive...the great faculty really cares.

Some overview points here:
1) do not fear interviewing late at BCM vis-a-vis your chances of acceptance

2) they have scholarship $ available late

3) BCM is an EXCEPTIONAL cost value even relative to home state/in-state costs, and with or without a scholarship...it might be less expensive than your IS schools straight-up (w/o a scholarship)...ALL schools charge fees in addition to tuition, so don't let BCM's fees spook you

4) Be sure to focus on NET costs...some schools are quick to note how many get scholarships, but if the "list price" tuition and fees are very high, you might pay quite a lot more net than to go to BCM (even OOS).

5) BCM can position you to smoke the Steps and track toward top residency interviews and placements

6) the PRM thing is a nice plus to help you adjust to medical school-- https://www.bcm.edu/education/schools/medical-school/student-affairs/class- of-2021/peer-resource-network

7) the 18-month pre-clinical period (which might have originated at BCM) has proven to work well...it gets you into the hospitals sooner seeing patients, which is what medicine is really all about.

8) Notwithstanding the recent rare flooding from the hurricane, and the usual sticky heat, as a practical matter Houston is a far better place than many locations to attend medical school. COL is moderate to low, and you can live a 15-minute bus ride away...just $1.20 a day for student fares. In your rare free/down time, there are excellent dining and cultural activities/sports.

To summarize, after establishing Texas residency (buy R.E. before you matriculate...or you could marry a Texas resident!), and net of a 50% scholarship, BCM was WELL LESS EXPENSIVE than going IS to our public medical school might have been.

BCM boasts (rightfully) that they are the best private medical school value in America-- but they are being TOO MODEST! BCM is the best medical school value PERIOD, especially when you factor in your bang for the buck-- results (Step scores and residency matches) vis-a-vis net costs.

As someone admitted after interviewing on the last interview day, I definitely concur with point 1!

I've also seen your previous posts and they've been super helpful!

Do you need to own property in Texas to be a resident? Renting an apartment isn't sufficient?

 

[wysdoc]

As someone admitted after interviewing on the last interview day, I definitely concur with point 1!

I've also seen your previous posts and they've been super helpful!

Do you need to own property in Texas to be a resident? Renting an apartment isn't sufficient?

No, afraid not! It is not easy to gain Texas residency if you move here to attend school. But heck, even OOS tuition is a relative bargain in Texas.

 

[lodestar]

re:
Thanks for your post. I've read your earlier ones and they are super helpful. I'm sure all of what you post about Baylor is still true with one major exception. Their OOS acceptance rate has plummeted since your daughter's experience in 2012. So for those of us who haven't heard yet, there is a very real chance we won't get in.

~~~~~

I had noted just earlier in this thread that the odds OOS were just 1.1% (among all OOS applicants) back 6 years ago, and the odds are indeed more daunting due both to more applicants and fewer allocated slots for OOS. But those of you who interviewed are at least in the running.

I have no good explanation for BCM's snail pace acceptance policy-- it is just the way they do it.

******

Really thankful for your consistent encouragement and knowledge. The wait is very hard, mostly because Baylor is such a great school. I’m sure your daughter got a little antsy from time to time just like us. It’s just nice to hear a story with a happy ending!

Hey folks, we had also rightly considered BCM to be a long shot...even post-interview, the odds were just 40% or so. When she got that call, we all jumped for joy! It required no time at all to drop her name from a couple of other WL's (both would have been well more expensive net than BCM).

Know this also-- if you interviewed at BCM, you WILL become a doctor...your acceptance somewhere is nearly a metaphysical certainty.

FYI, she sent two "I love BCM" post-interview notes, each premised by some new college accolade that seemed worth mentioning. When the offer came, the caller admitted that he was reading the second letter as he called. Just sayin'.

Pardon the verbiage.

 

[Lusheeta]

No, afraid not! It is not easy to gain Texas residency if you move here to attend school. But heck, even OOS tuition is a relative bargain in Texas.

I read somewhere that "gainful employment" also qualifies. I teach for an MCAT prep company, would that be sufficient for residency if they transfer me to Houston?

 

[SpoiledMilk]

I read somewhere that "gainful employment" also qualifies. I teach for an MCAT prep company, would that be sufficient for residency if they transfer me to Houston?

I think after the transfer, you will need 12 months of pay stubs indicating being domiciled in TX to qualify.

Here is the site to determine that: College For All Texans: Residency Information

 

[lodestar]

I read somewhere that "gainful employment" also qualifies. I teach for an MCAT prep company, would that be sufficient for residency if they transfer me to Houston?

Unless it has changed, you needed to reside in Texas for at least a year AFTER acquiring property there. Ergo, if you bought a condo before MS1 began, you would qualify as a Texas resident by MS2.

This might help (admittedly dated note):
Contact the Office of the Registrar at 713-798-7766 for details regarding establishing Texas residency for tuition purposes.

 

[wysdoc]

I think after the transfer, you will need 12 months of pay stubs indicating being domiciled in TX to qualify.

Here is the site to determine that: College For All Texans: Residency Information

yep. also it would be unwise to work the required average of 20 hours a week WHILE attending med school. Throw your time into med school studies.

Edited to add a more detailed link to residency requirements. TMDSAS Medical: Residency Information


Also this may be just me, but this "always looking for a loophole" mindset really bugs me. You are not moving to Houston to work for the MCAT tutoring company, you are moving to Houston to attend Baylor, the least expensive private med school in USA. We Texans have paid the taxes while living here to subsidize our schools and colleges, you OOSers have not. This is why, not just in Texas but in any state, OOS tuition is higher than in-state tuition.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Also this may be just me

It's not just you...

 

[Mr T Cell]

Was anyone who was rejected from the MSTP gotten into their MD program?

 

[lodestar]

re (per wysdoc just above):
Also this may be just me, but this "always looking for a loophole" mindset really bugs me. You are not moving to Houston to work for the MCAT tutoring company, you are moving to Houston to attend Baylor, the least expensive private med school in USA. We Texans have paid the taxes while living here to subsidize our schools and colleges, you OOSers have not. This is why, not just in Texas but in any state, OOS tuition is higher than in-state tuition.

~~~~~

Pardon this random aside, rightly anxious waiters, but this one begged for some response from us evil OOSers!

I get your point in theory, wysdoc, but honestly, this is a bit of a complicated issue.

Your profile suggests that you were educated in Oregon, but you chose to move to Texas...many among us have lived in multiple states, paying state and local taxes as apropos, and always paying federal taxes.

BCM is a PRIVATE school, not public. Yet BCM DOES charge considerably more for OOS students (> 3x as much).

Texas has no state income tax, so, arguably, those who live in other states ARE indirectly subsidizing costs of educating generally in Texas. Indeed, Texas receives back more than it pays in federal taxes period. That, in turn, is largely a function of "the percentage of a state's population living in poverty" (net receivers of tax $). So why might Texas have a lot of "those living in poverty"?

There are myriad ILLEGAL aliens living in Texas, welcomed in some key cases by sanctuary cities there. There is NO QUESTION that those in other states are forced to subsidize the substantial costs of supporting those ILLEGAL aliens. Notwithstanding the mythology brayed by the left, ILLEGALS are well more likely to milk the government for welfare services than are citizens. Similarly, many are rightly embittered that public colleges so often want to offer free rides to ILLEGALS, while charging significant premiums to OOS applicants. Finally, ILLEGALS LOVE grabbing those EITC's up in the $ billions, even though they usually paid NOTHING in federal taxes.

Just sayin'.

~~~~~~

Which States Are Givers and Which Are Takers?

It’s not just that some states are getting way more in return for their federal tax dollars, but the disproportionate amount of federal aid that some states receive allows them to keep their own taxes artificially low. That's the argument WalletHub analysts make in their 2014 Report on Best and Worst States to Be a Taxpayer.

Another part of the explanation is easier to discern. The reddest states on that map at the top—Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, New Mexico, Maine—have exceptionally high poverty rates and thus receive disproportionately large shares of federal dollars. Through a variety of social programs, the federal government disburses hundreds of billions of dollars each year to maintain a “safety net” intended to help the neediest among us. Consider, for example, the percentage of each state’s residents who get “food stamps” through the federal government’s SNAP program.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

BCM is a PRIVATE school, not public. Yet BCM DOES charge considerably more for OOS students (> 3x as much).

True that BCM is a private school, but it does receive TX state funding.

Baylor a bargain among top-ranked medical schools

Texas has no state income tax, so, arguably, those who live in other states ARE indirectly subsidizing costs of educating generally in Texas.

As a TX homeowner, TX has some the highest property taxes which help pays for our schools.

Here's Why Property Taxes Are Higher In Texas

 

[biochemgirl22]

Congrats to all the acceptances! It must feel so amazing. Anyone besides Lusheeta interview Feb 2 and recently been accepted? FB group count went up by 4 in the last 24 hours.

 

[wysdoc]

re (per wysdoc just above):
Also this may be just me, but this "always looking for a loophole" mindset really bugs me. You are not moving to Houston to work for the MCAT tutoring company, you are moving to Houston to attend Baylor, the least expensive private med school in USA. We Texans have paid the taxes while living here to subsidize our schools and colleges, you OOSers have not. This is why, not just in Texas but in any state, OOS tuition is higher than in-state tuition.

~~~~~

Pardon this random aside, rightly anxious waiters, but this one begged for some response from us evil OOSers!

I get your point in theory, wysdoc, but honestly, this is a bit of a complicated issue.

Your profile suggests that you were educated in Oregon, but you chose to move to Texas...many among us have lived in multiple states, paying state and local taxes as apropos, and always paying federal taxes.

That was quite an ugly derailment, lodestar. You will excuse me if I didn’t quote all of that logorrhea in my reply.
BCM is a private school but in accepting state subsidies, it limits its % of OOS students and charges more for OOS tuition.
BCM instate tuition 17,500
BCM OOS tuition 30,600
This is a $13,000 difference in tuition, not a 3-fold difference in tuition as you suggested.
The OOS tuition is quite reasonable and if you want to pay it, do. If you don't, don't.

 

[Doctor_Honey_Bear]

yep. also it would be unwise to work the required average of 20 hours a week WHILE attending med school. Throw your time into med school studies.

Edited to add a more detailed link to residency requirements.Texas Administrative Code

Also this may be just me, but this "always looking for a loophole" mindset really bugs me. You are not moving to Houston to work for the MCAT tutoring company, you are moving to Houston to attend Baylor, the least expensive private med school in USA. We Texans have paid the taxes while living here to subsidize our schools and colleges, you OOSers have not. This is why, not just in Texas but in any state, OOS tuition is higher than in-state tuition.

There is absolutely no “loop hole” about changing residencies. It’s completely legit and something the school even addresses. Moreover, if you look at Baylor’s funding a ton of it comes from NIH which is sponsored by the federal government. That said Baylor’s OOS tuition is very competitive. But I don’t think anyone is cheating by changing their residency.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

Texas has residency requirements that any OOS applicant can meet to gain instate tuition. That is not what wysdoc is talking about. She is specifically addressing some of the more inventive ways some OOS acceptees are trying to come up with to get around these rules, e.g., working at an organization with multi-state offices and trying to have said company transfer the employee internally to give the impression the employee works out of the Texas office, or recently in the general pre-med forum, an OOS poster with a sibling with Texas residency asking if they can use their sibling's status to gain residency status...Can I get TMDSAS TX residency through sibling?

 

[Doctor_Honey_Bear]

Texas has residency requirements that any OOS applicant can meet to gain instate tuition. That is not what wysdoc is talking about. She is specifically addressing some of the more inventive ways some OOS acceptees are trying to come up with to get around these rules, e.g., working at an organization with multi-state offices and trying to have said company transfer the employee internally to give the impression the employee works out of the Texas office, or recently in the general pre-med forum, an OOS poster with a sibling with Texas residency asking if they can use their sibling's status to gain residency status...Can I get TMDSAS TX residency through sibling?

There is nothing unethical about taking advantage of available opportunities
To get IS tuition. You have to submit documentation to prove residency, and it would be really hard to fake that. If someone were to unethically find a way to get IS tuition that would be wrong. But people are just trying to do what is financially smart and are taking advantage of totally legit opportunities. That is completely ok. You can literally call the Baylor financial aid office, and they will have a whole conversation about getting IS tuition. No one is sneaking, lying, or doing anything unethical.

 

[Doctor_Honey_Bear]

This is a residency code problem. If you don’t agree with the way things are done, your state senator is the person to contact.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

I think we are both in agreement that if an OOS can follow the TX residency procedure to meet the requirements to get instate tuition, then all the power to them, as well as it would not be legit to do things that stray from what the requirements entail. We seem to be speaking around each other...

 

[Doctor_Honey_Bear]

I think we are both in agreement that if an OOS can follow the TX residency procedure to meet the requirements to get instate tuition, then all the power to them, as well as it would not be legit to do things that stray from what the requirements entail. We seem to be speaking around each other...

Yes I agree. I wish you the best of luck OOS or IS.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

GL bro!

 

[wysdoc]

There is absolutely no “loop hole” about changing residencies. It’s completely legit and something the school even addresses. Moreover, if you look at Baylor’s funding a ton of it comes from NIH which is sponsored by the federal government. That said Baylor’s OOS tuition is very competitive. But I don’t think anyone is cheating by changing their residency.

I'm sorry to have offended you, DHB. Yes, a person can fairly and legitimately become a Texas resident by establishing domicile, delineated here on TMDSAS site TMDSAS Medical: Residency Information
In the case of Lusheeta who was asking above, she would need to be living and working in Texas for 12 consecutive months before starting school, to establish domicile. Depending on how a school interprets things, she could maybe work in TX while attending med school and then after having done it for a year, fill out forms to see if she now qualifies as a TX resident for her year 2,3, and 4.
I don't recommend working while attending med school though. Some med schools outright forbid it.
I know some people who planned ahead and moved to TX to live and work for a gap year, using the time to study for their MCAT or in one case their LSAT, before appying to professional school as a newly official Texas resident.

 

[Lusheeta]

I'm sorry to have offended you, DHB. Yes, a person can fairly and legitimately become a Texas resident by establishing domicile, delineated here on TMDSAS site TMDSAS Medical: Residency Information
In the case of Lusheeta who was asking above, she would need to be living and working in Texas for 12 consecutive months before starting school, to establish domicile. Depending on how a school interprets things, she could maybe work in TX while attending med school and then after having done it for a year, fill out forms to see if she now qualifies as a TX resident for her year 2,3, and 4.
I don't recommend working while attending med school though. Some med schools outright forbid it.
I know some people who planned ahead and moved to TX to live and work for a gap year, using the time to study for their MCAT or in one case their LSAT, before appying to professional school as a newly official Texas resident.

Apologies if I made it seem like I was looking for a loophole, didn't mean to offend (and start a rather heated discourse whoops.) Yeah, working while attending medical school probably isn't a good idea. Looks like I'll be buying real estate then, if I even decided to go for IS tuition at all. TBH, it really is a bargain for OOS.

 

[JPmoleymole]

.

 

[wysdoc]

Apologies if I made it seem like I was looking for a loophole, didn't mean to offend (and start a rather heated discourse whoops.) Yeah, working while attending medical school probably isn't a good idea. Looks like I'll be buying real estate then, if I even decided to go for IS tuition at all. TBH, it really is a bargain for OOS.

One more thing to think about in running the numbers, Lusheeta. Some students/families are able to help out with buying real estate. It's not uncommon for students at Baylor or McGovern to buy a condo in the medical center area. They can then sell it after graduation, or if they end up with a residency in Houston, they can stay there and really get their money's worth. If this isn't a financial possibility for you, the difference in IS and OOS tuition over 4 years is about 52,000. This is a significant amount of $$, but not as much money as buying a condo on top of your med school loans.
Congrats on your Baylor acceptance and I hope your planning for the move and school go well.

 

[lodestar]

re (from wysdoc):

BCM is a private school but in accepting state subsidies, it limits its % of OOS students and charges more for OOS tuition.
BCM instate tuition 17,500
BCM OOS tuition 30,600
This is a $13,000 difference in tuition, not a 3-fold difference in tuition as you suggested.

~~~~~~

Pardon me, ma'am, but WHERE do you get your data?! I would presume that BCM knows (as stated at its web site) what it charges for tuition.

BCM remains LESS EXPENSIVE than comparable medical schools, whether private, or even public. Even with fees factored in, it is still the best cost value, not to mention bang for the buck (measured results-- average Step scores and matches-- versus all-in costs).

Oh, OOS tuition seems to be exactly 3x the IS figure. Interestingly, BCM seemed so sure that OOS matriculants would establish state residence that they quoted their merit scholarship by year: exactly 50% of OOS tuition for MS1, and 50% of IS for years MS2-4.

Prospective Students

https://www.usnews.com/education/be...30/10-least-expensive-private-medical-schools

Tuition Comparisons
Graduate with Less Debt at Baylor College of Medicine (Source: 2016-2017 AAMC Comparison)

Baylor College of Medicine
Tuition (State Resident): $6,550 / Tuition (Non-resident): $19,650

Average Private Medical Schools
Tuition (State Resident) $50,495/ Tuition (Non-Resident) $51,880

Average Public Medical Schools
Tuition (State Resident) $30,053/ Tuition (Non-Resident) $53,399

 

[wysdoc]

here was my source, lodestar, from Baylor's page, for the 2017-2018 year
School of Medicine

Yes, the numbers I gave were just for tuition and not other fees, insurance, etc.
Sounds like Baylor students got even more of a bargain in the past. I'm glad your daughter is happy there.

 

[Doc in the house]

Hey,

Anybody here who got accepted to Baylor recently giving up a spot at TTUHSC??

 

[Anacquiredtaste]

Hey fellas,

Anyone have an idea of where to start looking for housing? Or a resource that I could use to point me in my direction?

 

[goatmed]

Hey fellas,

Anyone have an idea of where to start looking for housing? Or a resource that I could use to point me in my direction?

PMing you in a second

 

[Lusheeta]

Hey fellas,

Anyone have an idea of where to start looking for housing? Or a resource that I could use to point me in my direction?

There's a google doc posted in the facebook group! I've also done a bunch of searching on apartments.com, but the doc has reviews from former students of the different complexes. It's been a great resource in my search!

 

[Doctor_Honey_Bear]

Here we go again on the Baylor roller coaster...

 

[Lusheeta]

Here we go again on the Baylor roller coaster...

I would imagine there won’t be much news this week Second look registration closed, so I feel like they won’t accept people and be like “Oh..but you can’t come to second look sorryyyyy.” Could be wrong though

 

[Doctor_Honey_Bear]

I would imagine there won’t be much news this week Second look registration closed, so I feel like they won’t accept people and be like “Oh..but you can’t come to second look sorryyyyy.” Could be wrong though

That is a good point...

 

[pessimist22]

That is a good point...

At this point I'm moving on and making plans to go to the school that accepted me. Good luck to you and #thriving, keep fighting the good fight!

 

[daisydukes99]

At this point I'm moving on and making plans to go to the school that accepted me. Good luck to you and #thriving, keep fighting the good fight!

This! Im also moving on. Time to get excited for the school that wants me!

 

[wysdoc]

I would imagine there won’t be much news this week Second look registration closed, so I feel like they won’t accept people and be like “Oh..but you can’t come to second look sorryyyyy.” Could be wrong though

There are usually more offers in April. No need to be discouraging to people still waiting to hear

 

[wysdoc]

This! Im also moving on. Time to get excited for the school that wants me!

@daisydukes99 and @pessimist22 where are the schools you are planning to attend at this point?

 

[daisydukes99]

There are usually more offers in April. No need to be discouraging to people still waiting to hear

I’ve got to kind of agree with this. @Lusheeta, a week ago when you were in our position, would you have posted this?

 

[bluuberries]

I’ve got to kind of agree with this. @Lusheeta, a week ago when you were in our position, would you have posted this?

I'm sure she just meant it is unlikely for more acceptances to come out THIS week, not for the rest of the cycle. You know, with the timing of second look in early April.