[2017-2018] Emergency Medicine Rank Order List Thread

[doggydog]

You guys getting real creepy.

Back in my day we all hated each other on here. We hoped all of the other posters had to SOAP.

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[surely]

You guys getting real creepy.

Back in my day we all hated each other on here. We hoped all of the other posters had to SOAP.

What?! Sounds miserable. I, for one, welcome our new wholesome overlords.

 

[WernickeDO]

 

[surely]

Submitted by @dysdiadochokinesia_ via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 230s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: High Pass/Honors
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: No
Medical school region: Midwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: URM. scribed through med school. active in EMSIG

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location
COL
Fit
3 year>4 year
8h>9h>10h>>>>>>12h

1) University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
PROs: Oldest EM residency, huge alumni network, was late to the dinner and the resident in charge of coordinating texted me to make sure everything was alright, flight medicine is a huge draw, 6.5 months of elective time to carve out your niche, can go anywhere after grad, close to family
CONs: 4 years, surprisingly not an issue for me

2) Christiana Care Health Services
PROs: virtually unopposed residency, PD seemed like a huge teddy bear who would always have your back, diverse residents, very chill and well-structured interview day which I assume carries over into how they run the residency
CONs: [nb: they left this blank, possibly mistake, possibly Christiana is the perfect program]

3) Indiana University School of Medicine
PROs: residents are amazingly competent and respected off service, pushed hard, ICU as an intern is just you and staff without a patient cap, where you learn to be a real doctor, location and COL
CONs: Wish I could do all my EM months at Eskenazi and Riley

4) Advocate Christ Medical Center
PROs: got the warm and fuzzies on interview day, hospital is beautiful, chief residents seemed badass, 1:1 with attending every shift
CONs: brand new PD but old PD still on staff, location in proximity to Chicago/commute

5) University of Chicago Medicine
PROs: Babcock is quite possibly the best PD I met on the trail, energetic, committed to diversity, committed to the residents, flight medicine
CONs: Chicago COL

6) McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University
PROs: PD and Chair really invested in residents but also EM’s future. Budding interest in hospital admin that I know would be nurtured here
CONs: 4 years, Chicago COL

7) George Washington University (originally had the wrong program here, but user PMed me to correct it to GWU)
PROs: location
CONs: felt meh, didn’t sell me on the 4th year, COL

8) Louisiana State University - New Orleans
PROs: beautiful facilities, sense of history and impact on the community
CONs: New Orleans isn’t for me

9) Carolinas Medical Center
PROs: EM powerhouse, huge alumni network
CONs: weird vacation schedule, did not have a great experience in charlotte

10) University of Pittsburgh Medical Center
PROs: great program, awesome EMS experience on the jeep, good city
CONs: asked about cons of the program to residents during dinner and they said they work too much

11) John H. Stroger, Jr. Hospital of Cook County
PROs: EM powerhouse, residents seemed happy
CONs: Chicago COL, 3 floor months, no utility to the 4th year - essentially just being an attending without the pay
[note from @surely: User accidentally left off the name but later PMed me to confirm they meant to list Cook here]

12) Ohio State University Medical Center
PROs: beautiful facilities, cancer wing of ED, food at dinner was great
CONs: PD rubbed me the wrong way, my interview felt like an interrogation, every interviewer greeted me with the same phrase, “thanks so much for choosing to interview with us.” All felt very fake to me

13) Western Michigan University Homer Stryker MD School of Medicine
CONs: Kalamazoo is too small for me, felt like interview day lasted 100 years (7a-5p)

14) St Louis University School of Medicine
PROs: I actually like St. Louis, close to family, tons of friends in the area, being in the TCC as an intern with a teaching resident is a huge draw
CONs: Asked PD about diversity and he said, “I’m gonna give a you a non-answer answer…” as an URM I want to know that I will be supported wherever I go and not just there to tick a check box


Invited to interview, but declined: University of Kentucky, Rush, NY Methodist, Loma Linda, Mount Sinai Hospital, Mount Sinai St. Lukes, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt.

Waitlisted: University of Maryland, Emory

Rejected by: Temple, Mass Gen/Brigham & Women's, Georgetown. SILENT REJECTIONS: Case Western/METRO, Henry Ford (really wanted), Palmetto, Boston Medical Center


Anything else to add: Would be happy at any of my top 5. Excited to see where we all end up. The spreadsheet has been great place to realize that we are all going through the same things during this process. Hope these rank lists help future applicants as much as it's helped me in the past.

 

[surely]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 250s, Step 2: 250s
EM rotation grades: H/H/H
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region: West coast
Anything else that made you more competitive: tutoring, intramural sports

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: fit, fit, fit

1) Mount Sinai St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital Center
Residents were so chill and all like best friends. Love that there is subsidized housing and the residents can all live together in the same apartment complex. Transportation to both sites by shuttle is super convenient. Never lived in NYC before and a little scared, but the atmosphere of relaxed residents that are humble but crazy smart cannot be denied. Also does not hurt that program is a top tier nationally known program with amazing fellowship placement

2) McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University
Great feel. Super strong academic program. Love the emphasis on critical care, FOAMed. Supposedly they send out alumni to put a purple jacket on you during match day which gives me warm fuzzy feelings. Bonus is that they are 3rd oldest program with huge alumni network so all doors are open.

3) University of California Irvine Medical Center
Loved my interviews. Literally did not talk about anything medical. Great fit and feel. Ultrasound and meded are the top of the line here. Orange county seems awesome. Great county, community, academic mix. PD great sell on 3 > 4 yr and how UCI provides the volume to become not just competent but excellent.

4) Stanford University Medical Center/Kaiser Permanente Medical Center
Relaxed journal club. Inspiring faculty about the future of this program. Program is about 50 academic, 30, community, 20 county. Heard through the grapevine that people wish there was more time at county and less at academic. Opportunities galore also the stanford name opens doors left and right. traffic and cost of living is going to suck though.

5) Maricopa Medical Center
Amazing PD. So funny. residents super chill. Not a fan of phoenix. Scared of the hot summer and monsoon season...

6) Georgetown University Hospital/Washington Hospital Center
Great reputation. Felt like they would provide support for any endeavor. Traffic and commute not the greatest. Presocial dinner provided the most food compared to any other place.

7) Temple University School of Medicine
Loved the faculty but didn't get the same feel for the residents. Residents seemed more distant from each other compared to other programs. Maybe because they are family friendly

8) Loma Linda University School of Medicine
Felt isolated being inland california. Strong PEM and international emphasis. Just didn't get much feel from the program

9) University of California San Diego
Vibe I got was that this program is for location and left me uncertain about the clinical strength. Felt like UCI was for sure going to provide me much stronger clinical training and possibly loma linda also.

10) Johns Hopkins Hospital
baltimore is just not for me even though the hopkins name is undeniable

11) SUNY Downstate/Kings County Hospital
Amazing training. Was told that the program is like Highland but on steroids by APD. Residents were the most fun. I honestly think this is the best program in new york with st lukes roosevelt as best 3rd year. Sadly got mugged in brooklyn during my visit and don't think I can see myself living there. [note from @surely: NO! That's AWFUL. I'm so sorry.]

12) George Washington University
Did not click with half of my interviewers. Department chair said a negative part of the program is that they haven't been getting the applicants that they want into the residency so that stuck out like a red flag


Invited to interview, but declined: Drexel, Jefferson, UC riverside, USF, UF jacksonville

Rejected by: Carolinas, Harbor- UCLA, Denver Health, Hennepin, Orlando Health

 

[surely]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 260s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: H/H
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region: East coast
Anything else that made you more competitive: Curriculum committee, course rep many times

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Location fit and signification other that will follow me wherever I choose

1) University of California Irvine Medical Center
Great place to raise a family, amazing food, great boba milk tea scene, lived in new york before and hate the snow. Perfect weather. Loved the residents and faculty. Such an amazing group with too many stories to tell.

2) Loma Linda University School of Medicine
Also great to raise family. Less good food scene. Dislike inland empire compared to the coast. Saw a random snake in the grass that scared me. Living on the beach would be nice.

3) Los Angeles County - Harbor-UCLA Medical Center
Hate the traffic. Training is superb though. Best "reputation" but honestly I feel like reputation is overrated. Also 4 years sucks and first year is like a prelim year. Good food and boba. Living at the beach would be nice. I rather do 10s and12s then 8s and have more days off.

4) Stanford University Medical Center/Kaiser Permanente Medical Center
Not as big a norcal fan. Colder than socal. Not as much boba or great food scene. My SO family in norcal. Cost of living would suck. Can't decide whether to switch rank 3 and 4 though because had a better feel at stanford and harbor the way they do only 3 short interviews where not everyone meets the PD seems really impersonal.

5) University of California San Diego
Beautiful weather, amazing beaches, I need to workout to join the gun show. I feel like the motto of this program should be suns out guns out.

6) Carolinas Medical Center
Weather does see a little snow. Was told by many mentors and other applicants that this is the best 3 year program in the nation with the most well rounded training. Best free food! Residents said they never have run out of their food stipend money before and you can use it at so many of their hospital cafes.

7) Orlando Regional Medical Center
Warm but too warm. Humidity sucks. Not a fan of the daily thunderstorms in the summer. My SO went to school in florida before and isn't the biggest fan for us moving back. Other than that the residents were super close and i've heard that ormc is a very strong southern program. Curriculum and style sounds similar to carolinas and supposedly indiana.

8) Mount Sinai St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital Center
Rotated here and had such a blast. Residents were the smartest that I have encountered. Faculty super approachable and always an advocate to support you. Too bad my rotation was in the summer and I still can't get over the snow. If I didn't care about location this would be my number 1. Best program in new york and potentially the northeast in my humble opinion.

9) Maricopa Medical Center
Scared of monsoon weather also the crazy dust storms. It looks like the scene from the Mummy except there was no face in the storm. Amazing reputation and love the whole Copa pride.

10) George Washington University
So much free food at the predinner that I took home a take out box. DC is super expensive and traffic sucks and so does public transportation. Curriculum is really efficient toward EM, but had bad impression of location since it was storming during my interview day.

 

[Gray Fox]

Submitted by @dysdiadochokinesia_ via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 230s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: High Pass/Honors
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: No
Medical school region: Midwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: URM. scribed through med school. active in EMSIG

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location
COL
Fit
3 year>4 year
8h>9h>10h>>>>>>12h

1) University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
PROs: Oldest EM residency, huge alumni network, was late to the dinner and the resident in charge of coordinating texted me to make sure everything was alright, flight medicine is a huge draw, 6.5 months of elective time to carve out your niche, can go anywhere after grad, close to family

CONs: 4 years, surprisingly not an issue for me


2) Christiana Care Health Services
PROs: virtually unopposed residency, PD seemed like a huge teddy bear who would always have your back, diverse residents, very chill and well-structured interview day which I assume carries over into how they run the residency
CONs: [nb: they left this blank, possibly mistake, possibly Christiana is the perfect program]

3) Indiana University School of Medicine
PROs: residents are amazingly competent and respected off service, pushed hard, ICU as an intern is just you and staff without a patient cap, where you learn to be a real doctor, location and COL
CONs: Wish I could do all my EM months at Eskenazi and Riley

4) Advocate Christ Medical Center
PROs: got the warm and fuzzies on interview day, hospital is beautiful, chief residents seemed badass, 1:1 with attending every shift
CONs: brand new PD but old PD still on staff, location in proximity to Chicago/commute

5) University of Chicago Medicine
PROs: Babcock is quite possibly the best PD I met on the trail, energetic, committed to diversity, committed to the residents, flight medicine
CONs: Chicago COL

6) McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University
PROs: PD and Chair really invested in residents but also EM’s future. Budding interest in hospital admin that I know would be nurtured here
CONs: 4 years, Chicago COL

7) Georgetown University Hospital/Washington Hospital Center
PROs: location
CONs: felt meh, didn’t sell me on the 4th year, COL

8) Louisiana State University - New Orleans
PROs: beautiful facilities, sense of history and impact on the community
CONs: New Orleans isn’t for me

9) Carolinas Medical Center
PROs: EM powerhouse, huge alumni network
CONs: weird vacation schedule, did not have a great experience in charlotte

10) University of Pittsburgh Medical Center
PROs: great program, awesome EMS experience on the jeep, good city
CONs: asked about cons of the program to residents during dinner and they said they work too much

11) [PROGRAM NAME IS MISSING, please PM @surely to update]
PROs: EM powerhouse, residents seemed happy
CONs: Chicago COL, 3 floor months, no utility to the 4th year - essentially just being an attending without the pay
[note from @surely: I didn't apply to any Chicago programs, but maybe someone reading this did and can tell me what name is supposed to go here? Cook is my best guess]

12) Ohio State University Medical Center
PROs: beautiful facilities, cancer wing of ED, food at dinner was great
CONs: PD rubbed me the wrong way, my interview felt like an interrogation, every interviewer greeted me with the same phrase, “thanks so much for choosing to interview with us.” All felt very fake to me

13) Western Michigan University Homer Stryker MD School of Medicine
CONs: Kalamazoo is too small for me, felt like interview day lasted 100 years (7a-5p)

14) St Louis University School of Medicine
PROs: I actually like St. Louis, close to family, tons of friends in the area, being in the TCC as an intern with a teaching resident is a huge draw
CONs: Asked PD about diversity and he said, “I’m gonna give a you a non-answer answer…” as an URM I want to know that I will be supported wherever I go and not just there to tick a check box


Invited to interview, but declined: University of Kentucky, Rush, NY Methodist, Loma Linda, Mount Sinai Hospital, Mount Sinai St. Lukes, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt.

Waitlisted: University of Maryland, Emory

Rejected by: Temple, Mass Gen/Brigham & Women's, Georgetown. SILENT REJECTIONS: Case Western/METRO, Henry Ford (really wanted), Palmetto, Boston Medical Center


Anything else to add: Would be happy at any of my top 5. Excited to see where we all end up. The spreadsheet has been great place to realize that we are all going through the same things during this process. Hope these rank lists help future applicants as much as it's helped me in the past.

#11 sounds like Cook.

 

[EM2018orBUST]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 260s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: H/H
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region: East coast
Anything else that made you more competitive: Curriculum committee, course rep many times

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL: Location fit and signification other that will follow me wherever I choose

1) University of California Irvine Medical Center
Great place to raise a family, amazing food, great boba milk tea scene, lived in new york before and hate the snow. Perfect weather. Loved the residents and faculty. Such an amazing group with too many stories to tell.

2) Loma Linda University School of Medicine
Also great to raise family. Less good food scene. Dislike inland empire compared to the coast. Saw a random snake in the grass that scared me. Living on the beach would be nice.

3) Los Angeles County - Harbor-UCLA Medical Center
Hate the traffic. Training is superb though. Best "reputation" but honestly I feel like reputation is overrated. Also 4 years sucks and first year is like a prelim year. Good food and boba. Living at the beach would be nice. I rather do 10s and12s then 8s and have more days off.

4) Stanford University Medical Center/Kaiser Permanente Medical Center
Not as big a norcal fan. Colder than socal. Not as much boba or great food scene. My SO family in norcal. Cost of living would suck. Can't decide whether to switch rank 3 and 4 though because had a better feel at stanford and harbor the way they do only 3 short interviews where not everyone meets the PD seems really impersonal.

5) University of California San Diego
Beautiful weather, amazing beaches, I need to workout to join the gun show. I feel like the motto of this program should be suns out guns out.

6) Carolinas Medical Center
Weather does see a little snow. Was told by many mentors and other applicants that this is the best 3 year program in the nation with the most well rounded training. Best free food! Residents said they never have run out of their food stipend money before and you can use it at so many of their hospital cafes.

7) Orlando Regional Medical Center
Warm but too warm. Humidity sucks. Not a fan of the daily thunderstorms in the summer. My SO went to school in florida before and isn't the biggest fan for us moving back. Other than that the residents were super close and i've heard that ormc is a very strong southern program. Curriculum and style sounds similar to carolinas and supposedly indiana.

8) Mount Sinai St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital Center
Rotated here and had such a blast. Residents were the smartest that I have encountered. Faculty super approachable and always an advocate to support you. Too bad my rotation was in the summer and I still can't get over the snow. If I didn't care about location this would be my number 1. Best program in new york and potentially the northeast in my humble opinion.

9) Maricopa Medical Center
Scared of monsoon weather also the crazy dust storms. It looks like the scene from the Mummy except there was no face in the storm. Amazing reputation and love the whole Copa pride.

10) George Washington University
So much free food at the predinner that I took home a take out box. DC is super expensive and traffic sucks and so does public transportation. Curriculum is really efficient toward EM, but had bad impression of location since it was storming during my interview day.

I like the idea of using Boba as a tie breaker.

 

[alpinism]

Submitted by @dysdiadochokinesia_ via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 230s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: High Pass/Honors
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: No
Medical school region: Midwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: URM. scribed through med school. active in EMSIG

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location
COL
Fit
3 year>4 year
8h>9h>10h>>>>>>12h

1) University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
PROs: Oldest EM residency, huge alumni network, was late to the dinner and the resident in charge of coordinating texted me to make sure everything was alright, flight medicine is a huge draw, 6.5 months of elective time to carve out your niche, can go anywhere after grad, close to family

CONs: 4 years, surprisingly not an issue for me


2) Christiana Care Health Services
PROs: virtually unopposed residency, PD seemed like a huge teddy bear who would always have your back, diverse residents, very chill and well-structured interview day which I assume carries over into how they run the residency
CONs: [nb: they left this blank, possibly mistake, possibly Christiana is the perfect program]

3) Indiana University School of Medicine
PROs: residents are amazingly competent and respected off service, pushed hard, ICU as an intern is just you and staff without a patient cap, where you learn to be a real doctor, location and COL
CONs: Wish I could do all my EM months at Eskenazi and Riley

4) Advocate Christ Medical Center
PROs: got the warm and fuzzies on interview day, hospital is beautiful, chief residents seemed badass, 1:1 with attending every shift
CONs: brand new PD but old PD still on staff, location in proximity to Chicago/commute

5) University of Chicago Medicine
PROs: Babcock is quite possibly the best PD I met on the trail, energetic, committed to diversity, committed to the residents, flight medicine
CONs: Chicago COL

6) McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University
PROs: PD and Chair really invested in residents but also EM’s future. Budding interest in hospital admin that I know would be nurtured here
CONs: 4 years, Chicago COL

7) Georgetown University Hospital/Washington Hospital Center
PROs: location
CONs: felt meh, didn’t sell me on the 4th year, COL

8) Louisiana State University - New Orleans
PROs: beautiful facilities, sense of history and impact on the community
CONs: New Orleans isn’t for me

9) Carolinas Medical Center
PROs: EM powerhouse, huge alumni network
CONs: weird vacation schedule, did not have a great experience in charlotte

10) University of Pittsburgh Medical Center
PROs: great program, awesome EMS experience on the jeep, good city
CONs: asked about cons of the program to residents during dinner and they said they work too much

11) [PROGRAM NAME IS MISSING, likely Cook County, OP please PM @surely to update]
PROs: EM powerhouse, residents seemed happy
CONs: Chicago COL, 3 floor months, no utility to the 4th year - essentially just being an attending without the pay
[note from @surely: I didn't apply to any Chicago programs, but maybe someone reading this did and can tell me what name is supposed to go here? Cook is my best guess]

12) Ohio State University Medical Center
PROs: beautiful facilities, cancer wing of ED, food at dinner was great
CONs: PD rubbed me the wrong way, my interview felt like an interrogation, every interviewer greeted me with the same phrase, “thanks so much for choosing to interview with us.” All felt very fake to me

13) Western Michigan University Homer Stryker MD School of Medicine
CONs: Kalamazoo is too small for me, felt like interview day lasted 100 years (7a-5p)

14) St Louis University School of Medicine
PROs: I actually like St. Louis, close to family, tons of friends in the area, being in the TCC as an intern with a teaching resident is a huge draw
CONs: Asked PD about diversity and he said, “I’m gonna give a you a non-answer answer…” as an URM I want to know that I will be supported wherever I go and not just there to tick a check box


Invited to interview, but declined: University of Kentucky, Rush, NY Methodist, Loma Linda, Mount Sinai Hospital, Mount Sinai St. Lukes, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt.

Waitlisted: University of Maryland, Emory

Rejected by: Temple, Mass Gen/Brigham & Women's, Georgetown. SILENT REJECTIONS: Case Western/METRO, Henry Ford (really wanted), Palmetto, Boston Medical Center


Anything else to add: Would be happy at any of my top 5. Excited to see where we all end up. The spreadsheet has been great place to realize that we are all going through the same things during this process. Hope these rank lists help future applicants as much as it's helped me in the past.

Georgetown is a 3 year program.

 

[doggydog]

Georgetown is a 3 year program.

Man, they are terrible at selling their 4th year then.

 

[DO2017_EM]

Hey guys, resident at Maricopa here. First off, the Copa pride is real, and Dr Epter is amazing. He truly cares about the welfare of his residents and he does everything he can to make sure we are getting the best educational experience. This program is true county and you will be very well trained coming out. The three months of elective are amazing, and really let you tailor your education to what you are passionate about.

I saw a few things in rank lists that I thought I would address. First off, yes the summer is hot hot hot. However, during the early morning or late evening it is usually cool enough to go outside and do things. Everyone either has a pool or knows someone who does. The flip side to the hot summers are the amazing winters. I’ve worn a coat maybe twice so far this year. I've lived in places that have freezing winters, and I would much rather have a hot summer than a cold winter. As for the dust storms and monsoon season, I wouldn’t worry too much about them. Monsoon lasts a month or so, and I hardly noticed it. The dust storms/haboobs do happen but are unusual. They are scary if you happen to be driving, most people pull over and wait them out. I wouldn’t let the weather stand in the way of checking out this awesome program. PM me if you have any questions, happy to answer!

 

[Elevencents]

Hoping for some non-240+ rank lists!

 

[Aquab1ll]

Shoutout to the Brookdale PD for scaring everyone away from submitting their rank lists and ruining this page for everyone by identifying and shaming a student on here last year bc they weren’t happy with their rank spot. Hope your pride was worth it!

 

[gutonc]

Hoping for some non-240+ rank lists!

You must be new here.

 

[jw3600]

Hey guys, resident at Maricopa here. First off, the Copa pride is real, and Dr Epter is amazing. He truly cares about the welfare of his residents and he does everything he can to make sure we are getting the best educational experience. This program is true county and you will be very well trained coming out. The three months of elective are amazing, and really let you tailor your education to what you are passionate about.

I saw a few things in rank lists that I thought I would address. First off, yes the summer is hot hot hot. However, during the early morning or late evening it is usually cool enough to go outside and do things. Everyone either has a pool or knows someone who does. The flip side to the hot summers are the amazing winters. I’ve worn a coat maybe twice so far this year. I've lived in places that have freezing winters, and I would much rather have a hot summer than a cold winter. As for the dust storms and monsoon season, I wouldn’t worry too much about them. Monsoon lasts a month or so, and I hardly noticed it. The dust storms/haboobs do happen but are unusual. They are scary if you happen to be driving, most people pull over and wait them out. I wouldn’t let the weather stand in the way of checking out this awesome program. PM me if you have any questions, happy to answer!

Wish more people would do this. Thanks for being a resource. But friendly reminder to all. Trying to keep non rank list chatter to a minimum.

 

[namethatsmell]

Georgetown is a 3 year program.

Same poster also says he/she was rejected by Georgetown for an interview later in the post. My guess is that review was for George Washington which I️ think is 4 years.

Has there been a fill-in-the-blank thread where people post interview experiences and program thoughts and the rest of the applicants guess the program?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Shoutout to the Brookdale PD for scaring everyone away from submitting their rank lists and ruining this page for everyone by identifying and shaming a student on here last year bc they weren’t happy with their rank spot. Hope your pride was worth it!

Hahaha. Oh my, I totally forgot about that last year. No wonder the submissions seem a bit down this year.

 

[doggydog]

Wish more people would do this. Thanks for being a resource. But friendly reminder to all. Trying to keep non rank list chatter to a minimum.

Hey, dude, we are trying to keep this thread only rank lists so try to not make non rank list posts.

 

[jw3600]

Hey, dude, we are trying to keep this thread only rank lists so try to not make non rank list posts.

 

[SamtheWise]

Don't worry soon this post will degenerate into identical rank lists and y'all will long for some memes to break up the monotony of

AOA
260+/270+
Top 10 US news medical school

I want to do a 4 year program because I'm looking for a place with rigorous training, reputation matters because I [tell everyone I interview with that I] want to do a critical care fellowship, but yet I also am a well rounded person who runs, hikes, climbs and skis when I'm not drinking beer with my 10+ best friends, and I would like to be somewhere with a reasonable cost of living so my lab can have a backyard to run in.

1. Vanderbilt: so much great education, the former PD who sticks around to teach is so GREAT! PLUS NASHVILLE
2. Hennepin: it's like a 4 year county program but it's 3 yearsssssss
3. Carolinas: people say it's a good program, charlotte seems cheap and clean
4. Cinci: loved it, they fly, great education, the chair is so cool, but there's no way my SO will live in one of the worst cities in one of the worst states
........
16. Denver: loved the city (I climb, ski, and pound craft beer so great fit), wanted to like the program more: everyone seemed nice at the dinner and the interview day, plus awesome training, but I just can't get past the one person who told me it was malignant 10 years ago

 

[surely]

Posted on behalf of anonymous PMer - Props to this person for including a sort of "lessons learned" section, I love it.

Applicant summary:
Step 1: 220s
Step 2 CK: 250s (Improved my score by ~30 points. Got score report back on 11/1 and sent it immediately)
EM Rotation Grades: H/H/H
AOA: No
Medical School Region: East Coast

Anything else that made you more competitive? Worked in an ED prior to medical school; did well third year (Hs across the board, with one HP) and had very good comments in my MSPE; some interesting ECs, including significant prior work experience

Main considerations when making this list: Location (and whether my partner and I would be apart for some/all of my training); Strength of clinical teaching/training; Quality of life (shift length, feel for the residents, etc). General preference for 3>4 years (but also didn’t get many offers at 4 year programs).


1. Georgetown University Hospital/Washington Hospital Center
+: Lots of variety between the two sites (bread and butter EM in medically complicated, often underserved patients at WHC; crazy heme-onc and transplant at GUH). Work 1:1 with attendings. Interns are thrown in to see everyone (with appropriate back up) and grow into very impressive PGY-2s. Residents are super smart yet down-to-earth and are a pretty social bunch. Definitely got the sense that the new PD is focusing on streamlining some things and making the program even better. Great location for my partner.

-: DC traffic


2. Stanford/Kaiser
+: Great career guidance and opportunities to explore the sub fields within EM and find a niche. Felt like I would get incredible mentorship that would allow me to take advantage of all of the resources Stanford has to offer. Elective time spread over four years and increases each year. Awesome PD, got along well with the residents. More academic than the other places in the top half of my list, but I got such a good feel during my interview day that I’m ranking it highly.

-: COL is high, though would be do-able (friends/family in the area). Not ideal location for partner’s career but could swing it after intern year. Traffic.


3. Maine Medical Center
+: Tons of procedures thanks to the lack of ortho, ENT, and ophtho residents. Longitudinal EMS experience (and interesting challenges of doing EMS/patient transfers across an enormous catchment area). I also love New England and would be happy to live there again, and Portland is a great city with a generally reasonable COL. Both my partner and I really liked the residents and their families and could see ourselves fitting in well with the group.

+/-: Potential for skiing to work in the winter (would live close to MMC, where most rotations are). Would have to buy Nordic skis (and suck a lot less at skiing).

-: Not the most ethnically diverse patient population outside of Portland. Partner would be an hour flight away during my intern year.


4. West Virginia University (WVU)
+: Strong clinical experience—the residents raved about the community rotation (and how the program pays for gas to one of the closer sites/hotels at a farther site). Can moonlight as a third year at a Critical Access Hospital, where you’re the only doctor on site. Awesome PD and APDs—this program clearly supports its residents and helps them get where they want to go. Great outdoor recreation and friendly people, both within the program and in Morgantown in general.

-: Not a huge fan of football. Smaller city than what I’m used to. Partner would be a few hours away by car throughout residency.


5. Virginia Tech Carilion
+: Felt similar to WVU and Maine in that it serves a pretty sick population spread across a large catchment area. Lots of procedural experience. Seemed like a very up-and-coming program (in a good way) that is striving to keep improving itself and offer more to the residents. Had a great interview day experience (awesome fellow applicants, plus yummy pizza and cupcake lunch…which explains my post interview season pudge).

-: Roanoke is a hard sell for my partner, largely because it’s tough to get there (small airport without a ton of flights).


6. HAEMR-BIDMC
+: The 3+1 was a huge for me and one of the things that drew me to the program. Opportunities through the Harvard connection (this was talked up a lot in regard to the 4th year). I got along well with the residents I met. Good location for partner.

-: Big selling point seemed to be the name/reputation more than the quality of the training. Not impressed by their supposedly great EMR. Logistics of living near BI stressed me out and I felt like I couldn't get a straight answer from anyone about how much they paid for rent/parking or amount of time to get to different sites (especially with snow). One of my interviewers seemed really disinterested, which soured the rest of the day for me and led to me ranking this much lower than I thought I would. This was probably the program I was most excited about when deciding where to apply, but it felt like they're resting on their laurels and not trying as hard as some of the less well-known programs I visited. Ranking it mid-list because of name recognition.


7. York Hospital
+: Very solid program in a gorgeous, state-of-the-art ED. Residents get a lot of procedural experience. Good amount of clinical diversity for the location.

-: Didn't love the town of York/the fact that most residents seemed to live far away and not spend much time together outside of work.


8. Penn State Hershey
+: Great facilities, lots of peds experience with the children’s hospital. COL is super low. Chocolate.

-: Would be a huge adjustment to move to such a small town. Not the biggest fan of central PA.


9. George Washington University
+: Tons of faculty are involved with DC-esque things (disaster management, international health). Good location.

-: Four years (and didn't seem like quite as much value added as the other four year program I'm ranking). Didn’t click with any of the residents I talked with and didn’t get the sense that they’re a very close bunch.


10. University of Maryland
+: Great didactics, reputation. I know I'd be very well-trained coming out of here, but I don't think I'd like my life very much.

-: Not a fan of Baltimore. 12s. Didn't mesh well with the residents I met (drinking heavily seemed to be the main extracurricular activity).


Rejections: Emory, Vanderbilt, UPMC, Highland, HAEMR-MGH, Brown, University of Chicago, Carolinas. Waitlisted at Northwestern and never made it off the list.

Offered interview but declined: UVA, University of Wisconsin, University of Massachusetts, Dartmouth, Scott and White

Withdrew from: probably 15-20 programs in mid/late November. I was sitting at 6 or 7 interviews by mid/late October, panicked and applied to more than a dozen additional places, and ended up getting offers trickling in at about 1 or 2 per week until around Thanksgiving. Once I had my 10 interviews at places I was excited about, I withdrew from everywhere aside from the places listed above that I just waited to get rejected from.


Things I Screwed Up: Despite having a Step 1 score in the upper 220s, I thought I’d be okay taking Step 2 CK in mid-October. I got a number of invites before my score came back on 11/1, but I think that’s largely due to having strong EM/clerkship grades and good SLOEs. Once I could email programs with my score, I started getting on more waitlists and got a few invites within the first few days. I attribute my ~30 point score increase to studying way harder as an M3 than I did my first two years and killing it on my Shelf exams (mid-80s to mid-90s). My second big mistake was limiting where I applied for and did aways to locations within a few hours by car from where my partner and I live. I regret not doing one in Chicago—the only Midwest invite I got was from Wisconsin, and I think I would have gotten few more had I done an away farther from home.

Tl;dr—Do well as an MS3, take Step 2 CK early, branch out for your aways.

 

[surely]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 260s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: High Pass/Honors
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region: Southwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: ED scribe

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Fit and reputation

1) Mount Sinai St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital Center
Amazing national reputation, best interview dinner at the resident's house, new york city probably has the most diverse pathology. Trauma is not that big in nyc but they have trauma blocks elsewhere and also trauma is an algorithm. Awesome post graduate placement with some of the most competitive fellowships and jobs. Wellness is truly emphasized to provide the tools for not only residency, but also longevity in a successful career. Great 50/50 of mount sinai west academic tertiary feel and st luke's county population. Have heard nothing but the best from other applicants that rotated their. NYC is so popular residents and faculty are both diverse. Housing stipend from mount sinai is awesome.

2) Carolinas Medical Center
Similar faculty resident feel as SLR. Charlotte is nice but not as lively and for sure not as diverse as NYC. Another amazing well known 3 year program. a single site that is a tribrid of academic, county, community. I prefer the 50/50 contrast a bit more of SLR. Less diversity in faculty and residents. Tons of money for free food is awesome

3) Los Angeles County - Harbor-UCLA Medical Center
Academic county, Teaching rounds, living on the beach for 4 years sounds awesome. Dislike that you only get 3 short interviews and not everyone interviews with the program director. Residents sounded like they had a blast in cuba.

4) Denver Health
Surprised with the amazing resident turnout at the predinner. There is an infectious uplifting energy from the residents. They are all like the energizer bunny. Shadow shift was super chill and awesome. Saw some crazy stuff which the faculty said was their normal day. While I had a great time I want more wellness built into the curriculum because I think that I have an abundance of extroverted energy like the residents and faculty at DH

5) Hennepin County Medical Center
EM physicians are jacks of all trades and masters of resuscitation. Hennepin is the epitome of that statement. They are the innovative forefront of resuscitation and are one of the few doing ED Reboa, ecmo, and the only one to do TEE during resuscitation. STAB rooms amazing and faculty are legendary. Residents seemed more tired than those at denver health maybe it is the lack of sun and cold weather. Program does seem very inbreed with mostly midwest residents and faculty all from hennepin. Would like to learn from faculty that trained at different places.

6) McGaw Medical Center of Northwestern University
Leaders creating more leaders. Great welcoming presentation by Dr. Bailitz. Residents commented that his bedside teaching emphasis is amazing and second to none. Most of the time is at academic tertiary Quaternary hospital ED. Will I still get the same opportunity or see the same crazy pathology as I would as a county hospital?

7) Stanford University Medical Center/Kaiser Permanente Medical Center
Similar feel to Northwestern. Area much more expensive and more traffic.

8) University of California Irvine Medical Center
Academic, community, county feel at UCIMC with close residents and faculty. I prefer a bigger class size than 8. I assume scheduling is difficult with smaller class sizes

9) Maricopa Medical Center
Vibed well with Dr. Epter but less so with the other faculty. 3 months electives sounds awesome

10) Georgetown University Hospital/Washington Hospital Center
Too bad I am not a big fan of DC. Residents and faculty are so supportive and eager to help you

11) HealthPartners Institute/Regions Hospital
Program known for wellness and family feel which is great but lots of programs have that emphasis. I would not want to live in minnesota for just those reasons. It would have to be for the clinical opportunities off hennepin that are not offered anywhere else in the nation.

12) NYU/Bellevue Medical Center
Wasn't sold on the point of the 4th year and felt like this program was resting on its laurels decades ago. Felt a pretentious vibe and this was a huge contrast from SLR.


Invited to interview, but declined: vanderbilt, indiana, wash u st louis, kentucky, cook county, jacobi-montefiore, uc davis, loma linda

Rejected by: Kings county, Orlando regional, BIDMC, UCLA- Olive, USC LA county

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 260s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: High Pass/Honors
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region: Southwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: ED scribe

...

5) Hennepin County Medical Center
EM physicians are jacks of all trades and masters of resuscitation. Hennepin is the epitome of that statement. They are the innovative forefront of resuscitation and are one of the few doing ED Reboa, ecmo, and the only one to do TEE during resuscitation. STAB rooms amazing and faculty are legendary. Residents seemed more tired than those at denver health maybe it is the lack of sun and cold weather. Program does seem very inbreed with mostly midwest residents and faculty all from hennepin. Would like to learn from faculty that trained at different places...

VCU does TEE.

 

[odoreater]

and also trauma is an algorithm

I see this argument from so many medical students regarding residencies that may or may not have poor trauma exposure and I just do not understand the logic.

DKA is an algorithm---guess you don't need to see it during residency.

Cardiac arrest is an algorithm---don't need that to make a good emergency medicine residency.

Low risk chest pain has 1000 different algorithms and decision rules attached--likely can eliminate that from residency training as well....

 

[surely]

I see this argument from so many medical students regarding residencies that may or may not have poor trauma exposure and I just do not understand the logic.

DKA is an algorithm---guess you don't need to see it during residency.

Cardiac arrest is an algorithm---don't need that to make a good emergency medicine residency.

Low risk chest pain has 1000 different algorithms and decision rules attached--likely can eliminate that from residency training as well....

Any advice on how to evaluate which programs pass the Goldilocks test for trauma exposure (not too much, not too little)? I get the impression that there are residencies that overload you with trauma. By way of analogy, we don't need to see four bad cases of DKA per shift for 3 years to know how to treat it.

 

[odoreater]

Any advice on how to evaluate which programs pass the Goldilocks test for trauma exposure (not too much, not too little)? I get the impression that there are residencies that overload you with trauma. By way of analogy, we don't need to see four bad cases of DKA per shift for 3 years to know how to treat it.

Your best bet is to talk to the seniors to find out how comfortable they are managing trauma--even though the majority of residency graduates will go work in community low level trauma shops you will still have walk in multi-system MVCs, hunting accidents, MCCs, gun shot wounds etc etc...

You want to ensure that you are comfortable enough procedurally and mentally to take care of these patients, stabilize them (to the best of your capabilities given your practice setting), and transfer them in a better state than you found them on their way to your regional trauma center.

Many things are algorithms but algorithms do not prepare you cognitively or physically for the actual act of taking care of crashing trauma patients on your own.

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

I see this argument from so many medical students regarding residencies that may or may not have poor trauma exposure and I just do not understand the logic.

DKA is an algorithm---guess you don't need to see it during residency.

Cardiac arrest is an algorithm---don't need that to make a good emergency medicine residency.

Low risk chest pain has 1000 different algorithms and decision rules attached--likely can eliminate that from residency training as well....

Medical students aren't the ones coming up with this quote-I've heard it from residents and attendings during my away rotations at level 1 trauma sites, at interviews, and when I get advice on how to pick a program. But they aren't saying it in the sense that "you don't need to see it" rather, they're saying that having 1-2 dedicated months of it tends to be enough to run one effectively (which everyone gets so it shouldn't be how you choose a program). Nobody gets a dedicated month of DKA or chest pain during residency.

 

[alpinism]

Any advice on how to evaluate which programs pass the Goldilocks test for trauma exposure (not too much, not too little)? I get the impression that there are residencies that overload you with trauma. By way of analogy, we don't need to see four bad cases of DKA per shift for 3 years to know how to treat it.

EM program with too much trauma?

Doesn't exist in the United States.

Even programs at the busiest trauma centers usually share patients with surgery or only rotate for a few months during residency. Add on to that the fact that most patients nowadays have minor injuries that don't require any acute interventions and the sad reality is that most residents graduate with very little experience managing severe traumas except for learning a few basic ATLS algorithms. People like to say trauma is algorithmic on here because thats the only thing they ever learned in residency.

Also you can't compare DKA to trauma because one is a specific disease process while the other is literally thousands of different disease processes each with their own separate management strategies. A more realistic analogy would be the number of DKA cases versus stab heart cases needed during residency to be comfortable managing these patients. Both are life threatening conditions that can be managed by emergency physicians with appropriate training and experience however while all EM residencies will give you the chance to manage hundreds of DKA patients only a select few EM residencies will give you the chance to manage even one stab heart patient. The biggest difference between residency programs today isn't the exposure to sick medical patients but the exposure to sick trauma patients.

 

[odoreater]

A more realistic analogy would be the number of DKA cases versus stab heart cases needed during residency to be comfortable managing these patients. Both are life threatening conditions that can be managed by emergency physicians with appropriate training and experience however while all EM residencies will give you the chance to manage hundreds of DKA patients only a select few EM residencies will give you the chance to manage even one stab heart patient. The biggest difference between residency programs today isn't the exposure to sick medical patients but the exposure to sick trauma patients.

This is a completely fair point.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I definitely think there is a sweet spot with trauma. I think one month is not it. Caring for traumatic injuries, both big ones and minor ones, is a huge part of EM. 1 month of trauma is not anywhere close to enough. I did 3 months as a resident, and I'd say that was probably enough. 2-3 months is about the sweet spot IMO. I can't see doing only 1, but doing more than 3 would be start to see diminishing returns.

 

[SamtheWise]

EM program with too much trauma?

Doesn't exist in the United States.

Even programs at the busiest trauma centers usually share patients with surgery or only rotate for a few months during residency. Add on to that the fact that most patients nowadays have minor injuries that don't require any acute interventions and the sad reality is that most residents graduate with very little experience managing severe traumas except for learning a few basic ATLS algorithms. People like to say trauma is algorithmic on here because thats the only thing they ever learned in residency.

Also you can't compare DKA to trauma because one is a specific disease process while the other is literally thousands of different disease processes each with their own separate management strategies. A more realistic analogy would be the number of DKA cases versus stab heart cases needed during residency to be comfortable managing these patients. Both are life threatening conditions that can be managed by emergency physicians with appropriate training and experience however while all EM residencies will give you the chance to manage hundreds of DKA patients only a select few EM residencies will give you the chance to manage even one stab heart patient. The biggest difference between residency programs today isn't the exposure to sick medical patients but the exposure to sick trauma patients.

What about patients who are in driving while in bad DKA, become confused, cut off another driver, get shot, then wreck their car? Would you log that as a trauma resuscitation? Medical resuscitation? Or would you just throw your hands in the air, put them in a hallway bed and move onto the next vag bleeder?

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

I definitely think there is a sweet spot with trauma. I think one month is not it. Caring for traumatic injuries, both big ones and minor ones, is a huge part of EM. 1 month of trauma is not anywhere close to enough. I did 3 months as a resident, and I'd say that was probably enough. 2-3 months is about the sweet spot IMO. I can't see doing only 1, but doing more than 3 would be start to see diminishing returns.

It helps to go to a program that owns the trauma resuscitations. In addition to your dedicated trauma month/s, when you may get more hands on experience with some of the procedures, spending the remainder of your residency directing the team during trauma resuscitations is certainly valuable.

 

[surely]

Submitted by @allergictoclamshells via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 230s, Step 2: 250s
EM rotation grades: Honors/High Pass/Honors
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: No
Medical school region: Northeast
Anything else that made you more competitive: Good looks

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Location, reputation, resident personality/fit, social life

1) Los Angeles County/University of Southern California Medical Center
Pros: best training in country, LA
Cons: work hardest (could be a pro), majority spanish speaking

2) Harvard Affiliated Emergency Medicine Residency at Brigham and Women's
Pros: awesome opportunities, Boston, great PD
Cons: got slightly weird vibe from residents, not a lot of trauma

3) SUNY Downstate/Kings County Hospital
Pros: LAC of NYC. Great training, trauma, residents are badass
Cons: Not great off service

4) University of California San Diego
Pros: diversity of hosptials, great CA network, San Diego/weather
Cons: 4th year slightly repetitive, trauma not in ED at Hilcrest

5) Mount Sinai School of Medicine - New York
Pros: dichotomy of Elmhurst/Sinai, location, U/S, research, resources
Cons: Ivory tower feel of Sinai, commuting to 2 diff sites

6) Yale New Haven Medical Center
Pros: opportunities, resources, research, U/S, wellbeing, reputation
Cons: New Haven, Ivory tower

7) Mount Sinai St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital Center
Pros: great admin/APDs, wellness, community, housing, 3 yrs
Cons: Not much trauma, trauma run through surgery, U/S, small EDs

8) University of California Irvine Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, young admin, conf time, U/S, Orange County
Cons: small hospital, limited trauma, small program

9) Hofstra Northwell SOM at North Shore / LIJ
Pros: Resources, U/S, research, salary
Cons: need a car

10) Jacobi/Montefiore - Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Pros: reputation, trauma, County/Academic combo, PD
Cons: slightly malignant staff, residents seem overworked, location

11) New York Methodist Hospital
Pros: U/S, location, 3 yrs, nursing/NYP
Cons: reputation, historically malignant staff

12) New York-Presbyterian - Queens
Pros: diversity, wellness, r
Cons: new program/reputation

13) Lincoln Medical & Mental Health Center
Pros: reputation, trauma, proximity to manhattan
Cons: South Bx, hospital, admin

 

[surely]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 250s, Step 2: 250s
EM rotation grades: H/H/H/H
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region: Southeast
Anything else that made you more competitive: extensive volunteering? handsome fellow. decent interviewing skills.

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
fit >>>> location

1) University of California San Francisco - San Francisco
General Hospital Academic:county split is great, exactly what I'm looking for. Strong, directed curriculum. Cool PD, awesome residents. Fantastic interview day. Perfect fit. Love, love, love SF. Plenty of jobs for SO. Not thrilled about the COL one single bit, but everything else is perfect.

2) Emory University School of Medicine
Tough choice between here and UCSF. Another academic:county split program, which I loved. Underserved mission here is out of this world and resonates with me on so many levels. Only 3 years, which is another big plus. Atlanta was surprisingly fun, much cheaper than SF of course. Job opportunities for SO not as plentiful which was main differentiator between here and UCSF.

3) Los Angeles County/University of Southern California Medical Center
What an interview day. Jived with all the residents and faculty. Grand rounds were killer. Finishing up at the old hospital, gosh! Tugged my heartstrings and spoke to my desires to work with this population. The most legendary of clinical training, will be prepared to handle literally anything. The name, the alumni network: phenomenal. Definitely concerned about the 12s across all four years will be very rough. LA is a cool city but I liked SF more, and SO wasn't a big fan. LAC is broke as ****, so very limited opportunities.

4) Indiana University School of Medicine
Probably the coolest, chillest residents on the trail. Here we go again with county:academic splits, just love that model so much. Fantastic training. Great name and alumni network. Only 3 years! City is pretty, pretty, pretty boring, but actually SO has a good job connection here so we could make it work.

5) Denver Health
Another legendary program with badass training, a killer name, massive alumni network, and, of course, my academic:county fetish satisfied. Denver is super cool, also tons of pot and skiing nearby which is chill. Residents were fun. Loved reading and hearing about the "malignant" vibes on the trail so was worried heading in. Had a blast during my interview day and at conference, "malignant" = biggest load of BS on the trail. Residents definitely work hard here, but so does LAC and other serious programs. Not a problem. Also really appreciated how the PD owned up to the NRMP match violation (which was a big nothingburger) in a later email and took responsibility. Speaks a ton to the leadership there, imo. Biggest neg for me was my SO hates Denver, so had to bump it down farther than I'd like.

6) Los Angeles County - Harbor-UCLA Medical Center
Can't deny another legend. Awesome clinical training that is not quite as brutal as Denver or LAC. Get to live on the beach! Super cool residents. Great interview day, even enjoyed the cafeteria food! Very interesting academic-feel for a county program. Traffic for SO to potential jobs would be problematic.

7) Harvard Affiliated Emergency Medicine Residency at Brigham and Women's
That Harvard/MGH/Brigham name will take me places. Leadership is INVOLVED. Loved that they interviewed with us. Residents were chill and fun. Boston was COLD but surprisingly my SO enjoyed it and has plenty of potential jobs, also family close by. While residents tried to bill MGH as a bit of a county-type hospital with their patient population, that's a tough argument for me to buy. I definitely think the opportunities come at the expense of clinical training.

8) University of Maryland
Woah! Very impressed, especially, especially, especially, compared to another baltimore program I interviewed at but didn't list on here. Well structured curriculum. Leadership training focus with great clinical training. Shock trauma! Only 3 years! A little worried about my gut during interview day, something felt off. Might have been interviews and a couple of weird resident interactions, or the food I ate the night before! Also, didn't really enjoy baltimore and neither does SO. Job market supremely saturated for her here.

9) Stanford University Medical Center/Kaiser Permanente Medical Center
Can't deny the Stanford name and opportunities. Inspiring PD and leadership. Very neat academic:community:county split. Interesting 4th year curriculum. Not quite SF, but still norcal! Biggest negs for me: of course COL (cheaper than SF though!) and traffic. But the biggest indictment is the clinical training. I honestly think Stanford and MGH/BWH have much weaker clinical training than they should. Stanford mitigates with rotation at KP and valley, but too much time at the academic hospital combined with that wealthy surbanite norcal population... Will make for a cush residency, but I want to sweat a little and see some acuity and pathology. If they spent more time at valley... maybe. The 4th year is still a new option, and while I'm a risk taker, not that much. Also didn't jive as well with the residents, so not a terrific fit.

10) Georgetown University Hospital/Washington Hospital Center
DC is cool. Program seems well structured with good training all around. Only 3 years. Enjoyed the residents and faculty. But... ehhhh... Wouldn't mind being here, but not enthused about it. Just wasn't feeling it. Might have been burnt out as this was one of my last interviews from a long trail.

Rejected by: Vanderbilt, Carolinas, Cinci, UCLA-OV, Highland, Hennepin, Northwestern

Anything else to add?:
Went on 20 interviews. Last 10 programs include UNC, Wake Forest, Duke, UMass, VCU, UMich, UVA, ECU, EVMS, and Hopkins. Too lazy to write about all of them since below #10 I didn't particularly care.

 

[surely]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 200s, Step 2: 220s
EM rotation grades: H/H
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: No
Medical school region: Southeast
Anything else that made you more competitive: Decent research with 5 publications and a handful of case presentations. Involved with EM interest group since M1 year and a handful of other EM related ECs.

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Fit and wanted to go somewhere with a wide range of pathology.

1) University of Mississippi
Pros - I really love the faculty and staff here. Everyone is very friendly and easy to work with. New PD who seems to really be invested in improving the program. Great quality of pathology with lots of ED time built into the curriculum. Brand new sim lab that is just now finished and will be quite an upgrade from the older facilities.

Cons - Location is a turn off for some people and it's something I struggled with. ICU experience not great on all off-service rotations and only 4 months total (NSICU,PICU, SICU, and MICU).


2) West Virginia University
Pro - Spent a month here for an away rotation and really fell in love with the place. Debated a lot between putting them at #2 vs #1. PD really impressed me with how much she cares about the program and the residents. Ultrasound completely blew me away and very nice sim labs. A remodeled ED that is very well organized and will give them extra capacity when patient load surges.

Cons - Morgantown is a pretty small town so there are concerns for my SO being able to find a job. Some minor concerns for volume at the main site as a few of my night shifts I spent there at as a student were munch slower than I anticipated.


3) East Carolina University/Vidant Medical Center
Pros - The program presents itself as a place that you will see everything and learn to do it all. Great pathology and huge catchment area. I really liked how they have the ED divided into a lower and higher acuity pods with the higher acuity pod having close to 100% admission rate.

Cons - Greenville seems like a pretty small town and at the pre-interview dinner I was surprised at how quickly the resident left after they ate which created kind of a weird vibe.


4) WellStar- Kennestone in Marietta, GA
Pros - PD faculty seem really excited about the new program and there was an excitement in the air that made me want to learn more about the program. Seems to be a pretty high volume ED with plenty of sick patients. Potential to be a really great program and will be very interesting to see how well it works out.

Cons - New program. Unsure how well residents will integrate with all of current staff in the ED.


Rejected by: Vanderbilt, Carolinas, Cinci, UCLA-OV, Highland, Hennepin, Northwestern

Anything else to add?:
I'm a below average MD applicant and debated on rather to post this or not but am hopeful it will help people out in similar situations. No other red flags except for board scores with decent pre-clinical grades and better clinical grades. I was definitely one of those students who found the first two years incredibly difficult but really hit their stride during 3rd year. Applied to ~55 programs and only received 4 interviews with two of those being sites I rotated at. I talked to our school's adviser prior to ERAS opening and she recommended not applying to a back up specialty although I thought I should have. I regret that decision now but am prepared for the very real possibility of being forced to SOAP in which case I will do a pre-lim surgery year and then re-apply next year. I was hoping my two strong SLOEs would overshadow my board scores and at least give me more interviews than I received but unfortunately that didn't happen.

Applied to: Most programs in the Southeast
Invited to interview but declined: None


Note from @surely: I appreciate you sharing this perspective, and I'm crossing my fingers for you. Everybody loves an underdog story. Come back and celebrate with us when you match!

 

[mymembernames]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 200s, Step 2: 220s
EM rotation grades: H/H
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: No
Medical school region: Southeast
Anything else that made you more competitive: Decent research with 5 publications and a handful of case presentations. Involved with EM interest group since M1 year and a handful of other EM related ECs.

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Fit and wanted to go somewhere with a wide range of pathology.

1) University of Mississippi
Pros - I really love the faculty and staff here. Everyone is very friendly and easy to work with. New PD who seems to really be invested in improving the program. Great quality of pathology with lots of ED time built into the curriculum. Brand new sim lab that is just now finished and will be quite an upgrade from the older facilities.

Cons - Location is a turn off for some people and it's something I struggled with. ICU experience not great on all off-service rotations and only 4 months total (NSICU,PICU, SICU, and MICU).


2) West Virginia University
Pro - Spent a month here for an away rotation and really fell in love with the place. Debated a lot between putting them at #2 vs #1. PD really impressed me with how much she cares about the program and the residents. Ultrasound completely blew me away and very nice sim labs. A remodeled ED that is very well organized and will give them extra capacity when patient load surges.

Cons - Morgantown is a pretty small town so there are concerns for my SO being able to find a job. Some minor concerns for volume at the main site as a few of my night shifts I spent there at as a student were munch slower than I anticipated.


3) East Carolina University/Vidant Medical Center
Pros - The program presents itself as a place that you will see everything and learn to do it all. Great pathology and huge catchment area. I really liked how they have the ED divided into a lower and higher acuity pods with the higher acuity pod having close to 100% admission rate.

Cons - Greenville seems like a pretty small town and at the pre-interview dinner I was surprised at how quickly the resident left after they ate which created kind of a weird vibe.


4) WellStar- Kennestone in Marietta, GA
Pros - PD faculty seem really excited about the new program and there was an excitement in the air that made me want to learn more about the program. Seems to be a pretty high volume ED with plenty of sick patients. Potential to be a really great program and will be very interesting to see how well it works out.

Cons - New program. Unsure how well residents will integrate with all of current staff in the ED.


Rejected by: Vanderbilt, Carolinas, Cinci, UCLA-OV, Highland, Hennepin, Northwestern

Anything else to add?:
I'm a below average MD applicant and debated on rather to post this or not but am hopeful it will help people out in similar situations. No other red flags except for board scores with decent pre-clinical grades and better clinical grades. I was definitely one of those students who found the first two years incredibly difficult but really hit their stride during 3rd year. Applied to ~55 programs and only received 4 interviews with two of those being sites I rotated at. I talked to our school's adviser prior to ERAS opening and she recommended not applying to a back up specialty although I thought I should have. I regret that decision now but am prepared for the very real possibility of being forced to SOAP in which case I will do a pre-lim surgery year and then re-apply next year. I was hoping my two strong SLOEs would overshadow my board scores and at least give me more interviews than I received but unfortunately that didn't happen.

Applied to: Most programs in the Southeast
Invited to interview but declined: None


Note from @surely: I appreciate you sharing this perspective, and I'm crossing my fingers for you. Everybody loves an underdog story. Come back and celebrate with us when you match!

Thanks for sharing! Wish this applicant all the best! Hope more underdogs post to give me some hope for this upcoming year!

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 250s, Step 2: 250s
EM rotation grades: H/H/H/H
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes

...

Anything else to add?:
Went on 20 interviews... Too lazy to write about all of them since below #10 I didn't particularly care.

This is incredibly irritating. If you are not couples matching, you have the above stats, and you interviewed at 20 spots, you're doing it wrong. For all you paranoid types out there getting set to apply, notice that this person did not care after spot #10. Interview burnout is real. After 8-10, you will not be able to differentiate between programs. You will be tired, increasingly apathetic, (more) broke, and you are not doing yourself any favors. Decide what is really important to you and pick 10-12 interviews based on those criteria. Suppress your anxiety. As long as you're a normal person in the interview, you will match without any issues.
The honest truth is that all the programs listed above - really almost any EM program in the country - will provide you with solid training as long as you put in the necessary effort. In the long run, the differences between training at a place like UCSF or Denver or HAEMR are negligible. Be comfortable with your application and know that you're going to get great training wherever you end up. Applications like the above are at least a part of why people are applying to 80+ programs with perfectly acceptable stats. /rant

 

[surely]

This is incredibly irritating. If you are not couples matching, you have the above stats, and you interviewed at 20 spots, you're doing it wrong. For all you paranoid types out there getting set to apply, notice that this person did not care after spot #10. Interview burnout is real. After 8-10, you will not be able to differentiate between programs. You will be tired, increasingly apathetic, (more) broke, and you are not doing yourself any favors. Decide what is really important to you and pick 10-12 interviews based on those criteria. Suppress your anxiety. As long as you're a normal person in the interview, you will match without any issues.
The honest truth is that all the programs listed above - really almost any EM program in the country - will provide you with solid training as long as you put in the necessary effort. In the long run, the differences between training at a place like UCSF or Denver or HAEMR are negligible. Be comfortable with your application and know that you're going to get great training wherever you end up. Applications like the above are at least a part of why people are applying to 80+ programs with perfectly acceptable stats. /rant

Agreed. On the other hand, if anyone out there went on too many interviews and is worried about getting flak for posting a ROL with a ton of programs, feel free to just submit a ROL for your top 12 or whatever. You can even submit a separate one for your bottom 8 if you care enough to give future applicants some insight into program pros/cons. Chances are, if you're an EM applicant on SDN, you benefitted in some way from reading previous years' ROL submissions, so it'd be great if you could take the time and care to post info for next year's cohort.

 

[surely]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 250s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: High Pass/Honors/High Pass
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region: Midwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: Work experience, research

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
County style > academic, EM powerful in hospital, 3 > 4, 8s >>>> 12s, critical care experience, strength of off-service rotations

1) Carolinas Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, busy, strong job/alumni network, good COL, outdoors nearby

Cons: lots of off-service rotations


2) Hennepin County Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, EM runs the show, strong job/alumni network, good COL, got along very well with everyone I met

Cons: cold, no mountains


3) University of New Mexico
Pros: 3 years, huge catchment area, great training for austere/wilderness medicine, super strong CC experience/EM runs SICU

Cons: Albuquerque felt like a giant strip mall, I'm told the ED doesn't have admit privileges


4) Maricopa Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, powerhouse in the hospital, job/alumni network, Phoenix seems fun, liked faculty/residents I met

Cons: too hot in summer


5) Indiana University School of Medicine
Pros: 3 years, nice county/academic mix, job/alumni network, super unique/cool CC experience, cheap COL

Cons: didn't love how trauma is run, not the best access to the outdoors


6) University of Pittsburgh Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, really cool mix of clinical sites, good CC experience, the EMS/Jeep thing is super cool, good COL, nice/down to earth faculty

Cons: don't like how they run trauma and trauma airway


7) University of California San Francisco/ Fresno
Pros: the pathology, catchment area, resus experience is high volume/hands on, EM is the strongest residency in the hospital, great faculty and FOAMed experience, cheap COL, great outdoors nearby

Cons: 4 years


8) Brown University
Pros: safety net hospital with large catchment area, great teaching opportunities, nice faculty/residents, hilarious and supportive PD, tons of resources to explore your niche, PGY3 resus experience, better COL than Boston

Cons: 4 years


9) Denver Health
Pros: legendary clinical training, nice mix of clinical sites, cool city

Cons: 4 years, crazy schedule, expensive city


10) Alameda Health System - Highland Hospital
Pros: legendary clinical training, great job/alumni network, city/area is cool

Cons: 4 years, so expensive to live there


11) Boston Medical Center
Pros: great county experience, EM runs the show in the ED, really providing a service to the patient population they serve, social programs, great city, faculty/residents were great

Cons: 4 years, expensive city


12) Maine Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, great procedure experience, powerhouse in hospital/few other residencies, cheapish COL for the NE

Cons: had off-putting interview, homogenous patient population


13) University of California Davis
Pros: 3 years, great outdoors nearby, everyone bikes, large catchment area

Cons: expensive, found PD a bit off-putting, seems a bit too academic and consult heavy for me


14) Mayo Clinic School of Graduate Medical Education
Pros: 3 years, resources for whatever you want, not terrible COL, nice faculty/residents

Cons: location, not the county-type experience I want (but their volume and bread/butter exposure is much better than I expected)




Applied to: 40-something programs, got 30-something invites, kept 13

Withdrew from before hearing anything: University of Washington, UCSD, Christiana, UTSW, Chattanooga, Yale

Invited to interview but declined: Advocate Christ, MetroHealth, Detroit Receiving, Henry Ford, Duke, GW, Georgetown, Cook Co, Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth, Ohio State, Temple, Louisville, UMass, UMich, UNC, Wisconsin, VCU, Wake, Maryland, Northwestern

Rejected from: UCLA-Harbor, MGH/BWH, Vandy, Cincinnati, OHSU

 

[PianoMedic]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 250s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: High Pass/Honors/High Pass
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region: Midwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: Work experience, research

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
County style > academic, EM powerful in hospital, 3 > 4, 8s >>>> 12s, critical care experience, strength of off-service rotations

1) Carolinas Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, busy, strong job/alumni network, good COL, outdoors nearby

Cons: lots of off-service rotations


2) Hennepin County Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, EM runs the show, strong job/alumni network, good COL, got along very well with everyone I met

Cons: cold, no mountains


3) University of New Mexico
Pros: 3 years, huge catchment area, great training for austere/wilderness medicine, super strong CC experience/EM runs SICU

Cons: Albuquerque felt like a giant strip mall, I'm told the ED doesn't have admit privileges


4) Maricopa Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, powerhouse in the hospital, job/alumni network, Phoenix seems fun, liked faculty/residents I met

Cons: too hot in summer


5) Indiana University School of Medicine
Pros: 3 years, nice county/academic mix, job/alumni network, super unique/cool CC experience, cheap COL

Cons: didn't love how trauma is run, not the best access to the outdoors


6) University of Pittsburgh Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, really cool mix of clinical sites, good CC experience, the EMS/Jeep thing is super cool, good COL, nice/down to earth faculty

Cons: don't like how they run trauma and trauma airway


7) University of California San Francisco/ Fresno
Pros: the pathology, catchment area, resus experience is high volume/hands on, EM is the strongest residency in the hospital, great faculty and FOAMed experience, cheap COL, great outdoors nearby

Cons: 4 years


8) Brown University
Pros: safety net hospital with large catchment area, great teaching opportunities, nice faculty/residents, hilarious and supportive PD, tons of resources to explore your niche, PGY3 resus experience, better COL than Boston

Cons: 4 years


9) Denver Health
Pros: legendary clinical training, nice mix of clinical sites, cool city

Cons: 4 years, crazy schedule, expensive city


10) Alameda Health System - Highland Hospital
Pros: legendary clinical training, great job/alumni network, city/area is cool

Cons: 4 years, so expensive to live there


11) Boston Medical Center
Pros: great county experience, EM runs the show in the ED, really providing a service to the patient population they serve, social programs, great city, faculty/residents were great

Cons: 4 years, expensive city


12) Maine Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, great procedure experience, powerhouse in hospital/few other residencies, cheapish COL for the NE

Cons: had off-putting interview, homogenous patient population


13) University of California Davis
Pros: 3 years, great outdoors nearby, everyone bikes, large catchment area

Cons: expensive, found PD a bit off-putting, seems a bit too academic and consult heavy for me


14) Mayo Clinic School of Graduate Medical Education
Pros: 3 years, resources for whatever you want, not terrible COL, nice faculty/residents

Cons: location, not the county-type experience I want (but their volume and bread/butter exposure is much better than I expected)


Rejected by: Vanderbilt, Carolinas, Cinci, UCLA-OV, Highland, Hennepin, Northwestern

Anything else to add?:

Applied to: 40-something programs, got 30-something invites, kept 13

Withdrew from before hearing anything: University of Washington, UCSD, Christiana, UTSW, Chattanooga, Yale

Invited to interview but declined: Advocate Christ, MetroHealth, Detroit Receiving, Henry Ford, Duke, GW, Georgetown, Cook Co, Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth, Ohio State, Temple, Louisville, UMass, UMich, UNC, Wisconsin, VCU, Wake, Maryland, Northwestern

Rejected from: UCLA-Harbor, MGH/BWH, Vandy, Cincinnati, OHSU

Typo or did I miss something: rejected by Hennepin but ranking them second?

 

[jw3600]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 250s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: High Pass/Honors/High Pass
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region: Midwest
Anything else that made you more competitive: Work experience, research

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
County style > academic, EM powerful in hospital, 3 > 4, 8s >>>> 12s, critical care experience, strength of off-service rotations

1) Carolinas Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, busy, strong job/alumni network, good COL, outdoors nearby

Cons: lots of off-service rotations


2) Hennepin County Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, EM runs the show, strong job/alumni network, good COL, got along very well with everyone I met

Cons: cold, no mountains


3) University of New Mexico
Pros: 3 years, huge catchment area, great training for austere/wilderness medicine, super strong CC experience/EM runs SICU

Cons: Albuquerque felt like a giant strip mall, I'm told the ED doesn't have admit privileges


4) Maricopa Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, powerhouse in the hospital, job/alumni network, Phoenix seems fun, liked faculty/residents I met

Cons: too hot in summer


5) Indiana University School of Medicine
Pros: 3 years, nice county/academic mix, job/alumni network, super unique/cool CC experience, cheap COL

Cons: didn't love how trauma is run, not the best access to the outdoors


6) University of Pittsburgh Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, really cool mix of clinical sites, good CC experience, the EMS/Jeep thing is super cool, good COL, nice/down to earth faculty

Cons: don't like how they run trauma and trauma airway


7) University of California San Francisco/ Fresno
Pros: the pathology, catchment area, resus experience is high volume/hands on, EM is the strongest residency in the hospital, great faculty and FOAMed experience, cheap COL, great outdoors nearby

Cons: 4 years


8) Brown University
Pros: safety net hospital with large catchment area, great teaching opportunities, nice faculty/residents, hilarious and supportive PD, tons of resources to explore your niche, PGY3 resus experience, better COL than Boston

Cons: 4 years


9) Denver Health
Pros: legendary clinical training, nice mix of clinical sites, cool city

Cons: 4 years, crazy schedule, expensive city


10) Alameda Health System - Highland Hospital
Pros: legendary clinical training, great job/alumni network, city/area is cool

Cons: 4 years, so expensive to live there


11) Boston Medical Center
Pros: great county experience, EM runs the show in the ED, really providing a service to the patient population they serve, social programs, great city, faculty/residents were great

Cons: 4 years, expensive city


12) Maine Medical Center
Pros: 3 years, great procedure experience, powerhouse in hospital/few other residencies, cheapish COL for the NE

Cons: had off-putting interview, homogenous patient population


13) University of California Davis
Pros: 3 years, great outdoors nearby, everyone bikes, large catchment area

Cons: expensive, found PD a bit off-putting, seems a bit too academic and consult heavy for me


14) Mayo Clinic School of Graduate Medical Education
Pros: 3 years, resources for whatever you want, not terrible COL, nice faculty/residents

Cons: location, not the county-type experience I want (but their volume and bread/butter exposure is much better than I expected)


Rejected by: Vanderbilt, Carolinas, Cinci, UCLA-OV, Highland, Hennepin, Northwestern

Anything else to add?:

Applied to: 40-something programs, got 30-something invites, kept 13

Withdrew from before hearing anything: University of Washington, UCSD, Christiana, UTSW, Chattanooga, Yale

Invited to interview but declined: Advocate Christ, MetroHealth, Detroit Receiving, Henry Ford, Duke, GW, Georgetown, Cook Co, Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth, Ohio State, Temple, Louisville, UMass, UMich, UNC, Wisconsin, VCU, Wake, Maryland, Northwestern

Rejected from: UCLA-Harbor, MGH/BWH, Vandy, Cincinnati, OHSU

This list has some internal inconsistencies? Was there a problem with transcribing?

 

[surely]

Typo or did I miss something: rejected by Hennepin but ranking them second?

Oops. Sorry, will fix. Was distracted by premiere of The Resident. Thanks for catching that.

 

[surely]

Submitted anonymously via Google Form.

Applicant Summary:
Step 1: 250s, Step 2: 260s
EM rotation grades: High Pass/Honors/High Pass
Inducted into Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes
Medical school region: West coast
Anything else that made you more competitive: phlebotomist , ED scribe prior to medical school

Main Considerations in Creating this ROL:
Stay in west coast, reputation, fit

1) Los Angeles County - Harbor-UCLA Medical Center
+ Loved the conference small group activity, excited for teaching with shift turn out. Happy residents with legendary faculty. cafeteria food decent and free, live on the beach. Very humble. awesome reputation, EM king of the hospital
- little to no community experience, traffic, parking, no international elective allowed at all


2) Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center / Olive View UCLA Medical Center
+ Happy residents, like the 50/50 county academic, awesome reputation maybe slightly less than harbor
- traffic is really bad, more push back than at harbor


3) Stanford University Medical Center/Kaiser Permanente Medical Center
+ Great changes happening, a lot of academic resources, ambitious and inspiring faculty, stanford name out of EM is awesome
?: is the clinical training at an academic facility worse than at county? Does training at a place with more time at county actually make a better EM physician?
- COL, traffic


4) University of California Irvine Medical Center
+ county, community, academic feel. 3 years. Location is beautiful. Well known for meded and ultrasound.
- small ed and small class size. reputation may be less than the programs above.


5) Los Angeles County/University of Southern California Medical Center
+Great reputation, very popular because of Code black
- Heard and felt a malignant pretentious vibe. Feel that many programs are superb but they should always be humble. Traffic. Schedule is probably the worst i've heard about for any program nationally. Thinking of moving this program down the more I think and write about it.


6) Loma Linda University School of Medicine
+ Nice faculty, good COL, strong PEM and international focus, 3 years
- not a fan of inland empire, haven't heard much about program from others or advisors


7) University of California San Diego
+ Location is gorgeous, HBO, strong tox
- PD was cold, not sure about clinical training with low acuity. Also not a fan of the way trauma system is set up


8) Alameda Health System - Highland Hospital
+Great reputation, very popular because of the waiting room documentary
- great residents but did not vibe with the faculty. I feel like programs that want to increase their reputation should all just start making documentaries or tv shows


9) University of California Davis
+ county patients
- academic and consult heavy, not a fan of sacramento


10) University of California San Francisco - San Francisco General Hospital
+ lots of love from SDN 50/50 academic county
- Newer 10 years old program. Feel like hyped up because of name of UCSF but that doesn't mean strength of EM. Doesn't have same alumni network as programs above.



Invited to interview but declined: kaweah delta, kp san diego, Cook County, UF Jacksonville, UTSW, UT houston,Utah, U wash, oregon, Kern, desert regional, arrowhead

Rejected from: Kings County, Denver, carolinas, vanderbilt, hennepin, MGH, Northwestern

 

[TheComebacKid]

EM program with too much trauma?

Doesn't exist in the United States.

Even programs at the busiest trauma centers usually share patients with surgery or only rotate for a few months during residency. Add on to that the fact that most patients nowadays have minor injuries that don't require any acute interventions and the sad reality is that most residents graduate with very little experience managing severe traumas except for learning a few basic ATLS algorithms. People like to say trauma is algorithmic on here because thats the only thing they ever learned in residency.

Couldn't agree more. I remember when I interviewed people chastised me for putting an emphasis on ranking programs with relatively higher trauma volume. "You just want to be a sexy ER doctor, huh?" they said. "You need to be comfortable managing the chest pains and vag bleeders to be a good ED doctor, trauma is cookbook, anyone can do that."

I ended up at a program with an unbelievably high volume of trauma and I can tell you that it's essential for training. ATLS is cookbook when you are doing it in a sim lab with a mannequin, but true high acuity trauma is hard to find and these patients are challenging to take care of if you aren't familiar with running a room and doing highly invasive procedures. I'm not even talking about a resuscitative thoracotomy, but you should be comfortable putting in a cordis on a patient who is minutes away from coding. Do you know how a level 1 infuser works? Putting in a chest tube in a stable patient with a pnuemo is not the same as when you have 15 seconds to get it in a patient who is hypotensive.

Nothing can prepare you for a car that drives up and drops off 4 GSWs at once when a trauma surgeon is in the OR taking out an appendix. The majority of folks can manage 1 trauma patient, but do you know how to utilize your resources when you have multiple sick ones? There are very few places in the country that will expose you to do that.

The truth is every single program in the country will make you proficient at managing chest pain and vaginal bleeding. I think it's a huge red flag when you interview at a program and they downplay the importance of trauma and play up their "bread and butter" ED patients.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Couldn't agree more. I remember when I interviewed people chastised me for putting an emphasis on ranking programs with relatively higher trauma volume. "You just want to be a sexy ER doctor, huh?" they said. "You need to be comfortable managing the chest pains and vag bleeders to be a good ED doctor, trauma is cookbook, anyone can do that."

I ended up at a program with an unbelievably high volume of trauma and I can tell you that it's essential for training. ATLS is cookbook when you are doing it in a sim lab with a mannequin, but true high acuity trauma is hard to find and these patients are challenging to take care of if you aren't familiar with running a room and doing highly invasive procedures. I'm not even talking about a resuscitative thoracotomy, but you should be comfortable putting in a cordis on a patient who is minutes away from coding. Do you know how a level 1 infuser works? Putting in a chest tube in a stable patient with a pnuemo is not the same as when you have 15 seconds to get it in a patient who is hypotensive.

Nothing can prepare you for a car that drives up and drops off 4 GSWs at once when a trauma surgeon is in the OR taking out an appendix. The majority of folks can manage 1 trauma patient, but do you know how to utilize your resources when you have multiple sick ones? There are very few places in the country that will expose you to do that.

The truth is every single program in the country will make you proficient at managing chest pain and vaginal bleeding. I think it's a huge red flag when you interview at a program and they downplay the importance of trauma and play up their "bread and butter" ED patients.

Would you care to give a few examples?

 

[Apollyon]

Rank lists, people!!

 

[Gray Fox]

This is incredibly irritating. If you are not couples matching, you have the above stats, and you interviewed at 20 spots, you're doing it wrong. For all you paranoid types out there getting set to apply, notice that this person did not care after spot #10. Interview burnout is real. After 8-10, you will not be able to differentiate between programs. You will be tired, increasingly apathetic, (more) broke, and you are not doing yourself any favors. Decide what is really important to you and pick 10-12 interviews based on those criteria. Suppress your anxiety. As long as you're a normal person in the interview, you will match without any issues.
The honest truth is that all the programs listed above - really almost any EM program in the country - will provide you with solid training as long as you put in the necessary effort. In the long run, the differences between training at a place like UCSF or Denver or HAEMR are negligible. Be comfortable with your application and know that you're going to get great training wherever you end up. Applications like the above are at least a part of why people are applying to 80+ programs with perfectly acceptable stats. /rant

I've actually worked with grads from super famous county programs and super famous ivory tower programs. I saw no obvious difference among them based on clinical ability. So I totally agree with your statement on differences in training. From my perspective, and talking with EM faculty from various practice types, it's negligible in the long term. This obsession with the one perfect program is total and complete baloney.

The system is a zero sum game where the top applicants get the lion's share of the winnings. It's probably getting worse, with more top applicants going to more interviews, but programs unable to offer more interview days (easier to take spots than grow faculty or add days in the winter). I recall one applicant interviewing at a coveted program just to "visit a friend." No reason to do more than 15 or 16 unless couple's matching. You guys have every reason to be pissed. The system is broken.

 

[Apollyon]

RANK LISTS, PEOPLE!!!!

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

... No reason to do more than 10 or 12 1̶5̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶1̶6̶ unless couple's matching...

FTFY

 

[TheComebacKid]

Would you care to give a few examples?

Most of the SDN circle jerk programs would likely qualify. I can tell you the impression I got from places when I interviewed (and rotated at) not too long and from people I know at some of these respective programs: LAC+USC, Fresno, most of the Detroit programs, WashU in STL, U of Chicago esp with the new trauma center opening up, Advocate Christ, Temple, Baltimore programs, there are likely many other stellar places that I've missed.

I don't think these programs should be ranked above all other programs on your list, but when making a pros and cons list, trauma should be in the pro column for some of these respective programs.

Also, the truth of the matter is, and this is an unfortunate truth: the less desirable the city is to live in, the better trauma experience you are going to get. I remember this when ranking programs what a huge trade off it was. Live in SF which is a super cool city but relatively sterile from a trauma standpoint, or check out Detroit where residents come back to their cars in the parking lot and find bullet holes in them? Decisions decisions.

Again, it's a balance. You need to make the right decision for yourself and your family, but you should also put a huge emphasis on the quality of training you are going to get. Too often geography is the sole determining factor in terms of why applicants choose to go to one program over another, and I get it, it matters for family, kids, school districts etc. But you are really going to rank one program over another because of the rock climbing options or proximity to the beach? Doesn't make sense to me. Go get the best training for 3-4 years, your rock climbing skills may atrophy but you will pick it back up when you are done getting badass training. Maybe the people at Henry Ford don't have the best hipster beer scene, but when they get out of training they can probably handle anything that comes their way (full disclosure, I don't train at Henry Ford but I remember being very impressed by the residents when I did an away there).

IMO the four most important questions to ask (in no particular order) are:

1. Do I fit with the people and are they happy
2. Can I moonlight (a long time ago I thought this was a stupid question to ask but I now realize from a training standpoint how critical it is)
3. How sick are the patients i.e. trauma and what is the role of the ED in the management of those patients
4. What is best for my family/kids