2018-2019 University of California - Los Angeles (Geffen)

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
WL boys and girls, now lets move on with our lives.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Anyone know how many people on the WL? Didn't the Dean say everyone would be on the WL?
 
Anyone know how many people on the WL? Didn't the Dean say everyone would be on the WL?
Dean Hall said the WL applicants would be notified around April so hearing back in March was a little unexpected. However, about a week ago, some applicants were rejected so no, not everyone is on the WL.
 
I just checked the portal and saw the WL. No idea how long it's been there. Should I call them to confirm since I didn't get an email?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
WL too, interview back in November.
Anyone know how receptive UCLA is to letter of intent? Couldn't find anything on the school website or the application portal
 
WL too, interview back in November.
Anyone know how receptive UCLA is to letter of intent? Couldn't find anything on the school website or the application portal
For the UCLA PRIME program they do not accept letters of intent. I imagine that regular MD admissions would be similar, if not the same--anyone else have experience with this?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Any current or accepted students know if it would be worth sending in a merit scholarship offer from another school to see it UCLA will match?
 
Any current or accepted students know if it would be worth sending in a merit scholarship offer from another school to see it UCLA will match?
Yes. Say that UCLA is your top choice, but that financing it will be an issue and *smoothly* bring up your other offer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Does DGSOM have class rank / if so how is it determined?
Could be wrong, but I believe rank only exosts for 3rd and 4th year during rotations based on the honor/high pass/etc system. This is needed since they have AOA for Juniors/Seniors.
 
Does DGSOM have class rank / if so how is it determined?

We do not rank, and the MSPE does not include a qualifier indicating what class percentile range the student falls into. AOA is determined by many things, of which class rank is not one (since it doesn't exist here). MS3/4 have H/HP/P/F system as mentioned above, but not every school with tiered grading is ranked. All schools are now required to report what percentage of each class got each grade on each rotation on the MSPE, but that's it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
For anyone who got accepted off of the waitlist in previous years, would you mind sharing if this happened to you before or after the 4/30 date?

Just wondering since I’m not sure if I should start booking trips for second looks or if I should give UCLA another week or two first.

Thank you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
+1
For anyone who got accepted off of the waitlist in previous years, would you mind sharing if this happened to you before or after the 4/30 date?

Just wondering since I’m not sure if I should start booking trips for second looks or if I should give UCLA another week or two first.

Thank you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Can anyone speak to whether not receiving Geffen puts you at a disadvantage for anything during medical school? Since it's offered to a relatively large chunk of people, I'm wondering if there is a weird divide created between those who received it and those who didn't, and whether those who received it are offered additional support for things like finding research mentors, prepping for residency etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Can anyone speak to whether not receiving Geffen puts you at a disadvantage for anything during medical school? Since it's offered to a relatively large chunk of people, I'm wondering if there is a weird divide created between those who received it and those who didn't, and whether those who received it are offered additional support for things like finding research mentors, prepping for residency etc.

From what I’ve heard, I don’t think there is an explicit divide, but geffen scholars, for the most part are quiet, about their scholarship. Imagine that 1/3 of class are struggling with 200-300k in debt while 1/3 of class are being paid 30k+ every year while getting tuition covered. The disparity is too big and understandably the non-Geffen people feel a bit bitter about this. I also hear that Geffen scholars get automatic summer research funding, but otherwise, I’m not sure about other advantages.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Can anyone speak to whether not receiving Geffen puts you at a disadvantage for anything during medical school? Since it's offered to a relatively large chunk of people, I'm wondering if there is a weird divide created between those who received it and those who didn't, and whether those who received it are offered additional support for things like finding research mentors, prepping for residency etc.

I personally don't feel disadvantaged despite not having Geffen. There definitely isn't a weird divide, except for the occasional "You have Geffen right? ... oh you don't? ... ohmygoshi'msosorrythisisawkward"

If they do get extra support, I haven't in any way felt deprived in looking for a research mentor (can't speak about residency prep though). Most people don't know if you do have Geffen or don't, and even if they do I haven't heard it ever as a dividing thing. I'd say the only disadvantage is probably the disadvantage of not having a full ride scholarship haha

I also hear that Geffen scholars get automatic summer research funding, but otherwise, I’m not sure about other advantages.

They do get automatic funding for the summer, but everyone basically does as long as you turn in the research application on time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The whole Geffen scholarship thing kind of annoys me actually. It’s a little frustrating that UCLA has the ability to dramatically reduce the debt of all their students, but instead chooses to give a large portion of the class everything and more and leave everyone else struggling. This obviously doesn’t apply to everyone, but I imagine that a not insgnificant number of Geffen scholars benefited from having parents that could support them financially during school, allowing them to have the time to get amazing scores and ECs. It’s frustrating that many of those people now get a free ride through medical school while some of us who had to work actual jobs through UG are saddled with debt. Like I said, I know this isn’t true for every Geffen scholar, as there are some people on this thread that I know it doesn’t apply to. But, in light of the whole recent UG admissions scandal, it really put into perspective for me how easy children of upper class families have it in applying. I’m not talking illegal actions. I’m talking Things like paid MCAT tutoring, admissions consultation since freshman year, professional essay writing - all of that stuff could contribute to someone getting a Geffen, and it’s all the direct result of money.

I also don’t believe that there isn’t a divide between Geffen scholars and non-Geffen scholars. I’ve already talked to several current students, and each of them has asked me if I have the scholarship. I already feel like I’m less of a student/applicant because I don’t have it. I feel like it’s wrong for me to feel inferior (and to have that inferiority validated by the administration through this scholarship) to my classmates when we were all accepted to a T10 school. I don’t know - to me this seems like it creates a dysfunctional environment.

Anyway, I’m just ranting. I’m frustrated that this scholarship comes up in every conversation about the school, and I’m frustrated that I’m going to be going into a life changing amount of debt while some of my classmates will be literally paid to go to med school.

I feel you, sometimes it can feel really random as to who gets a scholarship and who doesn't as well. Especially since everyone is so academically qualified at places like UCLA. Though I think a lot of things factor into those selected in order to try and make it a level playing field. Adcoms look for things like the probability of choosing a low paying but highly needed specialty, SES disadvantaged background, the potential to go into reserach heavy career (low pay), non-traditional status (who have higher opportunity cost) etc. I like to think in the end it will all work out
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Has anyone made a bruin account/ filed for housing and all that? Haven't done anything other than accept the offer.
 
Has anyone made a bruin account/ filed for housing and all that? Haven't done anything other than accept the offer.
Done everything except sign up for housing. Last I checked, we can't yet, but I haven't checked in about a month.
 
Can anyone speak to whether not receiving Geffen puts you at a disadvantage for anything during medical school? Since it's offered to a relatively large chunk of people, I'm wondering if there is a weird divide created between those who received it and those who didn't, and whether those who received it are offered additional support for things like finding research mentors, prepping for residency etc.

So I'm just going to chime in on this one. As an MS3, I can tell you based on the last three years:
  • There is NO divide in my class as to who has the scholarship and who doesn't, as far as I can tell based on the entire last 3 years. Zero. Nada. If there is another MS3 here who would like to jump in to provide a counterexample, that would be news to me. I defer to other posters about whether this is true for the c/o 2019, 2021, and 2022, but I have not heard of any issues in any other class.
  • As mentioned above, recipients stay quiet about it. If you talk to current students--again, at least in my class--I doubt many could name even 25% of classmates who have it. Even recipients have a hard time remembering who else has it. And this is after three years of being in the same classrooms and facilities together.
  • There is no advantage in med school to having it, beyond the financial one and getting automatic summer funding. But seeing as the STTP summer funding is essentially guaranteed to anyone who wants it, all the scholarship does is save you a couple pages of STTP application writing. As for everything else--research, mentors, whatever other opportunities you may be thinking of--no PIs/attendings/residents know or care who has what scholarship, and they certainly aren't going to give preference to someone with it over someone without it.
  • There are no social implications either. The recipients do not form any exclusive clique.
  • There is only one event each year that is for recipients, where the financial logistics are explained. That's it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
So I'm just going to chime in on this one. As an MS3, I can tell you based on the last three years:
  • There is NO divide in my class as to who has the scholarship and who doesn't, as far as I can tell based on the entire last 3 years. Zero. Nada. If there is another MS3 here who who like to jump in to provide a counterexample, that would be news to me. I defer to other posters about whether this is true for the c/o 2019, 2021, and 2022, but I have not heard of any issues in any other class.
  • As mentioned above, recipients stay quiet about it. If you talk to current students--again, at least in my class--I doubt many could name even 25% of classmates who have it. Even recipients have a hard time remembering who else has it. And this is after three years of being in the same classrooms and facilities together.
  • There is no advantage in med school to having it, beyond the financial one and getting automatic summer funding. But seeing as the STTP summer funding is essentially guaranteed to anyone who wants it, all the scholarship does is save you a couple pages of STTP application writing. As for everything else--research, mentors, whatever other opportunities you may be thinking of--no PIs/attendings/residents know or care who has what scholarship, and they certainly aren't going to give preference to someone with it over someone without it.
  • There are no social implications either. The recipients do not form any exclusive clique.
  • There is only one event each year that is for recipients, where the financial logistics are explained. That's it.

Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions, Radiata.

On an unrelated note, I was wondering if you had any advice for those of us on the WL?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Nothing profound I'm afraid. LOI accompanied by *significant* updates are unlikely to hurt if done appropriately, but it remains unclear how much they help.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The whole Geffen scholarship thing kind of annoys me actually. It’s a little frustrating that UCLA has the ability to dramatically reduce the debt of all their students, but instead chooses to give a large portion of the class everything and more and leave everyone else struggling. This obviously doesn’t apply to everyone, but I imagine that a not insgnificant number of Geffen scholars benefited from having parents that could support them financially during school, allowing them to have the time to get amazing scores and ECs. It’s frustrating that many of those people now get a free ride through medical school while some of us who had to work actual jobs through UG are saddled with debt. Like I said, I know this isn’t true for every Geffen scholar, as there are some people on this thread that I know it doesn’t apply to. But, in light of the whole recent UG admissions scandal, it really put into perspective for me how easy children of upper class families have it in applying. I’m not talking illegal actions. I’m talking Things like paid MCAT tutoring, admissions consultation since freshman year, professional essay writing - all of that stuff could contribute to someone getting a Geffen, and it’s all the direct result of money.

I also don’t believe that there isn’t a divide between Geffen scholars and non-Geffen scholars. I’ve already talked to several current students, and each of them has asked me if I have the scholarship. I already feel like I’m less of a student/applicant because I don’t have it. I feel like it’s wrong for me to feel inferior (and to have that inferiority validated by the administration through this scholarship) to my classmates when we were all accepted to a T10 school. I don’t know - to me this seems like it creates a dysfunctional environment.

Anyway, I’m just ranting. I’m frustrated that this scholarship comes up in every conversation about the school, and I’m frustrated that I’m going to be going into a life changing amount of debt while some of my classmates will be literally paid to go to med school.

I'm sorry that you feel this way, but I understand where you coming from 100%. I grew up feeling inferior because I had work while others got to play and I couldn't speak English while watched others forming social groups that I can't join. When I received Geffen, the second thought that pops immediately in my mind was "Does or will this hurt my potential socialization and new friends. What do I do if someone one asks me?" I hate feel inferior, and I hate to make others feel inferior. I don't want my new friends to get stressed around me by knowing that I have Geffen. So I planned on never telling anyone that I have Geffen. I expressed this concern to all medical students(n=5, so far. more on second look) I got to talk to and the unanimous answer is no one really cared to ask around "hey do you have Geffen? I don't/I do". The general consensus I am getting is that people who attending DGSOM is very aware of others' feelings and will do nothing to bring potential pain to others just for self-pleasure or self-confidence boost. I hope my class, if any of you are reading this haha, will share this thought and just practice our version of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
The whole Geffen scholarship thing kind of annoys me actually. It’s a little frustrating that UCLA has the ability to dramatically reduce the debt of all their students, but instead chooses to give a large portion of the class everything and more and leave everyone else struggling. This obviously doesn’t apply to everyone, but I imagine that a not insgnificant number of Geffen scholars benefited from having parents that could support them financially during school, allowing them to have the time to get amazing scores and ECs. It’s frustrating that many of those people now get a free ride through medical school while some of us who had to work actual jobs through UG are saddled with debt. Like I said, I know this isn’t true for every Geffen scholar, as there are some people on this thread that I know it doesn’t apply to. But, in light of the whole recent UG admissions scandal, it really put into perspective for me how easy children of upper class families have it in applying. I’m not talking illegal actions. I’m talking Things like paid MCAT tutoring, admissions consultation since freshman year, professional essay writing - all of that stuff could contribute to someone getting a Geffen, and it’s all the direct result of money.

I also don’t believe that there isn’t a divide between Geffen scholars and non-Geffen scholars. I’ve already talked to several current students, and each of them has asked me if I have the scholarship. I already feel like I’m less of a student/applicant because I don’t have it. I feel like it’s wrong for me to feel inferior (and to have that inferiority validated by the administration through this scholarship) to my classmates when we were all accepted to a T10 school. I don’t know - to me this seems like it creates a dysfunctional environment.

Anyway, I’m just ranting. I’m frustrated that this scholarship comes up in every conversation about the school, and I’m frustrated that I’m going to be going into a life changing amount of debt while some of my classmates will be literally paid to go to med school.

I totally hear you. I definitely felt some guilt in receiving the Geffen. As someone fortunate enough to grow up without financial hardship, I had more time and cognitive space to pursue ECs and maintain my GPA, instead of working full-time to support my tuition, send money back to my family, etc. And while I never used any paid consultation throughout college/MCAT/med school apps, I was able to benefit from paid tutoring in high school. I've been shielded from stressors throughout my life that many folks in lower-SES face, which allowed me to be more productive than I otherwise may have been. So, so much respect for those of you who've been accepted (and/or got the Geffen) who grew up in a different financial situation.

When I got the offer, it was wild thinking that my privilege beget even more privilege. But I'm now even more determined to translate that privilege into fighting inequities, through lower-paying paths in medicine/public health. While I'm grateful for the scholarship, I recognize how it's unfair, and am open to learning about ways to help make The System more equitable.

Here's an interesting piece in NEJM challenging merit aid: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1713146
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
does anyone know when i should expect to hear anything back? still radio silence :( so many frustrations with UCLA...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
does anyone know when i should expect to hear anything back? still radio silence :( so many frustrations with UCLA...

Is there nothing on your portal?? Maybe you will hear good news...:) Everyone is discussing the geffen scholarship, and my only dream is to get off the waitlist haha
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I appreciate everyone's thoughtful replies regarding the Geffen Scholarship, and I'm glad to see that students who have earned the scholarship are aware of it's potential negative effects on UCLA's class dynamics. I have no doubt that all of you are amazing applicants that absolutely deserve the scholarship. I think @chick_fil_eyyy really hit the nail on the head - it's really more about feeling sidelined by the school, not necessarily by other students. It just seems like all this scholarship does is create two groups, one consisting of the good students and one consisting of the better students. And, as much as we try to deny it, that elephant in the room will be awkward/difficult to avoid. I mean, isn't medical school supposed to be where you make life long friends? How can you expect to make those connections if 1/3 of us have this big secret that we're afraid to reveal because it may upset someone? And it'll become more obvious who has it over time as well - some classmates will be more aloof about going out to eat, or buying a new video game, or maybe even going to Disneyland for a weekend, because, for them, they have the money, why not use it to make medical school a little more enjoyable? But for the rest of us, doing those things means paying back the same amount 3 times over 10 years later. As much as I want to believe that there is absolutely no effect on the class dynamics, basic human psychology tells me otherwise. Geffen scholars will naturally group together because 1) they have the financial means to do similar things together and 2) it's just what humans do - we form groups with similar identities and, as has been discussed before, the school has artificially stratified the scholars into their own identity.

Of course, that is all conjecture, and I sincerely hope I am proved wrong. But there are more consequences to UCLA's decision making beyond arbitrary social interactions. For one, look at UCLA's average debt. Last time I checked, it was about $180,000. While that certainly isn't the largest debt, it is a good notch higher than many of UCLA's peer T10 intuitions. I don't have access to MSAR anymore, but I believe that Harvard was about 120K, Stanford 90K, Mayo 70K, and Yale just recently announced that they aim to drop their average debt to 60K. Columbia has an initiative to eliminate debt for those in financial need. NYU has free tuition. UCLA get's the largest donation in the history of a medical school? They create the Geffen Scholarship program, providing a full ride to a select number of students and not helping anyone else, a fact reflected in that despite the fact that UCLA students benefit from in state tuition (and that 20-30% of their students get a full ride), they still come out with more debt than their peer institutions. What makes this worse is that UCLA encourages its students to pursue primary care, careers that command a lower salary than most specialties. Wouldn't UCLA then want to reduce the debt of all their students so more can perform primary care jobs? Apparently not, they're more interested in recruiting so and so with a nature publication who will hopefully match ortho at Stanford.

I still like UCLA, and I still will likely be attending. But the administration has made decisions about what to do with their money that we, as students, have a responsibility to be critical of. As we all know, money doesn't necessarily recruit students, but reputation and opportunities do. Why do you think so many students over at the school x vs y thread are weighing this scholarship against offers at Harvard and UCSF? UCLA is moving up in the world. We're now #6 on USNWR research and are revitalizing our curriculum. We don't necessarily need the Geffen anymore, students will come here for UCLA, not for the money. The administration should do the responsible thing and use the money to help all their students, not just a select few.


Hi all, current Geffen scholar here. I appreciate all of the insight that everyone has provided, especially from the current students. I wanted to throw in my two cents based on my own observations.

The Geffen scholars know who everyone is, based on the annual reception in the fall, email lists to interview us for the Geffen Foundation, etc. Medical school is very cliquey, and although my circle of friends is diverse, I feel that there is a trend for Geffen scholars to congregate together. There have been some uncomfortable social situations, such as when my classmates discuss how much loans they're taking or how much easier things would have been if they had received the Geffen scholarship. This does create some tension in the social dynamic of the class that is indeed palpable. Some students are passive aggressive towards scholarship recipients, but I haven't had any of those problems yet. In an ideal world, I believe that this scholarship should have been divided among all students to reduce the burden of the class, but it is a recruitment tool as stated by Dean Hall.

I only came to UCLA because of the Geffen scholarship and did not want to shell out 200k-300k for other peer institutions. However, UCLA isn't the best fit for everyone, and I do believe that other schools have better curriculums and more opportunities to pursue outside interests. I also feel that there isn't enough of an emphasis on research aside from the MS1 summer. I would like to reiterate that UCLA is a great school if you are primarily interested in underserved, diverse communities and wish everyone the best of luck in their choices.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
Hi all, current Geffen scholar here. I appreciate all of the insight that everyone has provided, especially from the current students. I wanted to throw in my two cents based on my own observations.

The Geffen scholars know who everyone is, based on the annual reception in the fall, email lists to interview us for the Geffen Foundation, etc. Medical school is very cliquey, and although my circle of friends is diverse, I feel that there is a trend for Geffen scholars to congregate together. There have been some uncomfortable social situations, such as when my classmates discuss how much loans they're taking or how much easier things would have been if they had received the Geffen scholarship. This does create some tension in the social dynamic of the class that is indeed palpable. Some students are passive aggressive towards scholarship recipients, but I haven't had any of those problems yet. In an ideal world, I believe that this scholarship should have been divided among all students to reduce the burden of the class, but it is a recruitment tool as stated by Dean Hall.

I only came to UCLA because of the Geffen scholarship and did not want to shell out 200k-300k for other peer institutions. However, UCLA isn't the best fit for everyone, and I do believe that other schools have better curriculums and more opportunities to pursue outside interests. I also feel that there isn't enough of an emphasis on research aside from the MS1 summer. I would like to reiterate that UCLA is a great school if you are primarily interested in underserved, diverse communities and wish everyone the best of luck in their choices.

I have a few friends in the class of 2022 here, and their views essentially align with what this post says. One has loved it, few others have not. They said that while there is a slight divide amongst geffen and non-geffen scholars, its not something that is too overwhelming or that weighs on them too much socially. They are dissapointed with opportunies especially in research, for non-Geffen students - it can be difficult to find supportive caring mentors who will make time for students particularly in the more competitive specialties. They’ve also complained about the curriculum being woefully inadequate for STEP and will have to study overtime during summer to catch up. That being said, opportunities in service and primary care/free clinic type work abound at the school, and its a great place for those interested in those types of fields.

Just wanted to share, since what the poster above me stated is almost exactly what I’ve heard from my close friends who currently attend the school. Hope this helps!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
looking at their match list, not as impressive as you would think for such a high ranking school
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Wow, I wasn't expecting to spark this much conversation about the topic. Thank you so much to everyone who responded and gave their perspective!

There's a similar merit scholarship program at my undergraduate institution, and it's always been a bit of a touchy subject even though none of us go around saying we're a part of it, so that's why I wanted to ask. I didn't really think about it being an issue initially, but it's been making me more anxious recently for some reason.

I was initially ecstatic to receive an offer from UCLA, as it was one of my top choices and I'm OOS. But I was really disappointed by the lack of aid they offered and their unwillingness to negotiate given how much money they clearly have available.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
The match list seems very solid for a public school with a significant primary care emphasis. It might seem less impressive in comparison to Duke/Yale/WashU etc. but those schools have a stronger research focus and honestly Vandy/Northwestern/Pitt are probably closer peers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Is the significant primary care emphasis really true? I mean I have nothing against an emphasis there but the school seems to be fantastic in terms of research funding and opportunities as well. There even seems to be opportunities for things like entrepreneurship in medicine which is exciting. Any thoughts on this from people attending/anyone else?
 
Is the significant primary care emphasis really true? I mean I have nothing against an emphasis there but the school seems to be fantastic in terms of research funding and opportunities as well. There even seems to be opportunities for things like entrepreneurship in medicine which is exciting. Any thoughts on this from people attending/anyone else?

Unless you’re in PRIME or DREW or both, to the rest of us ~130 students per class there is no palpable primary care such focus. The only arguable area it comes up is that there are ~6 sessions in MS1 (preceptorship) shadowing usually a primary care MD. I’m not really sure why this emphasized so much on online fora. It’s played up in match lists because of a high number of IM matches, but nearly all of those plan to subspecialize in something decidedly not primary care.

As an example, we do 12 wk surgery rotation. Nearly every other school in the nation does only 6-8 wk. I wouldn’t exactly call surgery primary care :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
looking at their match list, not as impressive as you would think for such a high ranking school
I'm not sure why you say this, but a large factor that people undervalue when looking at match lists is where people want to be for residencies. A lot of people want to stay in the LA area cuz it's LA. I was very impressed while going through their match list. Go onto Doximity and explore a little.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
looking at their match list, not as impressive as you would think for such a high ranking school

On the opposite, I think this is a great match list. Do you mind to be more specific on "not as impressive"? Do you simply measure the impressiveness of a class's match by counting # matched into ROAD/NS/OS and the "famousness of name" of the program? I'm not defending DGSOM, I am just simply curious.

If you do a little more research by googling the student's name who got matched into FM at "Not-Famous" programs, you'll find a lot of them actually wanted to go there in published articles/websites and/or are in specific programs.

C'mon, I thought we all learned different confounds and bias on the MCAT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Top