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Just got secondary! Transmitted 8/3
LizzyM 82.6
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Got secondary a short while ago! Transmitted 8/3, OOS & ORM.
 
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Secondary Received on 09/10, transmitted 07/23, OOS. LizzyM 76
There is hope....
 
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Does anyone know about how many II's UCSF has sent out so far? I have only seen 1 here on SDN.. Thanks in advance! :)
 
Secondary received !!! :) OOS. LM 71. Verified primary mid August
 
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Did anyone’s II ask for a social security number? I think I might have gotten an II but that part of the email seemed sketchy.

Edit: It’s real!!!
 
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I was transmitted in late July and haven’t received a secondary yet. In state, LM 74. Would it be terrible to email and inquire?
 
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Is it too late for me to send this school my primary? I'm within range in terms of stats and mission fit, but I see that there's quite a long wait for a secondary (if not screened out before receiving)... I really like this school and wish I had transmitted my app earlier, but since I can't change the past, ig I would rather save the $ if submitting this late essentially reduces my chances to 0. Thanks in advance for any insight, and good luck to everyone this cycle!!
 
gljj said:
Is it too late for me to send this school my primary? I'm within range in terms of stats and mission fit, but I see that there's quite a long wait for a secondary (if not screened out before receiving)... I really like this school and wish I had transmitted my app earlier, but since I can't change the past, ig I would rather save the $ if submitting this late essentially reduces my chances to 0. Thanks in advance for any insight, and good luck to everyone this cycle!!
Click to expand...

Hey King/Queen, shoot your shot if you genuinely feel UCSF is where you NEED to be. Chances of getting in are 0% if you DONT apply. If you at least try, it is better than 0%.
 
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Cole42 said:
I just went to a virtual interview prep session where the guest speaker was Dean Wofsy from UCSF. He gave a lot of insight into how UCSF conducts their process, so I figured it might be helpful to share with those following this thread in case they weren't able to attend. I was typing while he was talking, so there are a lot of sentence fragments, but I tried to capture what he said as best as I could. If anyone has notes from the end when he talked about attitudes toward the MCAT given COVID, feel free to share as I had to deal with a family situation and couldn't take good notes during that time:

General Comments:
  • Remember there are human beings on the other end of this process - often get different answers to the same question
  • Every school does it differently and individuals have different opinions
  • Don’t get thrown by conflicting advice - you will get conflicting advice
  • People on other end of process are more like us than we think - trying to do right thing, looking for things we would value
  • What would I be thinking if I were in their shoes?
  • What weakness should I address or strength I want to shine through?
  • In the end, medical schools have limited information to judge based on
Schools have 5 things in mind: think about where do I stack up on these 5 things?
  1. Academic Work: You can do the academic work when you get there - not a contest or game of who has best GPA/MCAT - know broad range of grades and MCATs can be great doctors and don’t believe you have to score in 99th percentile on MCAT or 3.8+ GPA but need to know you can do the academic work (shown by undergrad GPA - for those people, MCAT doesn’t matter much; MCAT for those who have lower undergrad GPA; for career changers or those who didn’t do well in undergrad, can prove academics in postbacc program but file has to do that)
  2. Something "Extra": Need to do more than just satisfy the academic work - must have something extra (research, community service, or a talent that has nothing to do with medicine but shows devotion to excellence, etc.) - for many people something extra comes from life experience - can be shown during letters, ECs or personal statement
  3. School Mission: At UCSF, they look for graduates to contribute to society in every area that physicians have an impact - like people for different reasons (if they aren’t going to be a great scientist, don’t need to be judged by that metric and can judge them on narrowing healthcare disparities in California or health policy changing way health care is delivered) - at UCSF, looking for different strengths in different people, no formula for getting in - looking for "Who are the good human beings?"
  4. LORs: So important for letter writers to speak to committee not about the highest grade but what we were like and to some degree that interviews give insight into that too
  5. Diversity: every school interest in diversity in a broad sense - includes racial and ethnic diversity (compelling data that if you want to serve all communities, need to train physicians who will go back and care about them) - diversity includes race, ethnicity, geography, etc. and also sexual orientation, SES, gender, and so on
Interview Offer:
  • Offering an interview is where the decision gets made - the decision doesn’t get made at the end after you interview - the reality is that the hard moment is getting the invitation to get interviewed
  • Tables have turned when you get an interview application (though most applicants and committees aren’t conscious of that) - at that point, you’re being recruited, not judged
  • At UCSF, interview 500 people and by the time go down waiting list, have sent 280 acceptances for 160 spots - over 50% chance of getting in if you got an interview
  • The real hurdle is getting invited for an interview
  • By interview, school has already decided you are good enough - if UCSF interviews you, chances are you will go somewhere great (absent really bad luck)
Mistakes applicants make:
  • Biggest mistake - don’t look at it as if they are on the other side of the process - they don’t identify weaknesses
  • Other applicant mistake - they think they have to stand out in the personal statement - very few people who get into medical school get in because of what they wrote in personal statement (but many tried so hard to stand out that it hurts them)
    • Show you can command the English language, write coherent relevant page (why medicine)
    • If personal statement is wonderful and rest of the file isn’t, you’re not getting in
  • Common interview mistake - deciding before interview what you want to say (need to be thinking on feet and responding to the questions)
Other interview tips:
  • Don’t talk for 10 minutes - make it conversational in classic interview
  • Pretend you’ve just sat down to lunch with someone you don’t know (family friend or something) and they are getting to know you and you’re getting to know them - comfortable, relaxed, conversational interaction where genuinely listening and genuinely interested
  • Over-rehearsed interviews are noticed and not liked (still rehearse but to practice comfort, not what you are going to say - need to be able to think on your feet and respond)
  • Other pitfalls: name-dropping, acting too arrogant/big for yourself (especially at schools where you have a prior connection)
How UCSF eliminates people after interviews:
  • Approach is that the interviewers are not decision makers - they write narrative reports like another letter of recommendation
  • Entirely different committee looks at whole file and makes decision (20 people on the committee look at whole file to make decision)
  • Moved to that 5 years ago because before they were basing it on personality of interviewer - prejudiced process too much based on luck of draw on interviewer (who would advocate most strongly for final decision based on personality)
  • Now 20 people who have not met you integrate information in file and those 20 people vote
  • 3 outcomes - accept/reject/alternate list
  • If just voted, everyone would be accepted after interview because you have 500 interviewed people who were chosen because their file is great and had a positive interview
  • At UCSF, what they do is say to the committee, have to divide up your votes into thirds
    • Which third impresses you the most?
    • Which will be waitlist?
    • Which will we decline?
    • Dean tracks it and over course of the season he tries to force the committee to vote 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 in those 3 categories
    • Usually 40% or more accept and 20-25% reject - it’s close enough and they have enough spots for it to be the way it comes out - will be done that way again this year even though Dean Wofsy isn't running it this year
  • They aren’t deciding who is not good enough - it’s not based on weakness or doing something wrong but rather the intensity of the competition
Screening process for secondary applications:
  • There are 3 ways to use data they have to make decision
    • 1. Can have strict numerical cutoffs
    • 2. Can have a formula (what UCSF used to do) - get points for everyone you can think of like are they in-state, GPA, MCAT, etc. and more than a certain number of points got a secondary automatically
      • UCSF threw out this system because they didn't want to throw out an applicant for getting less research points if their "something extra" was community service - because UCSF judges based on different metrics, this system didn't make sense
    • 3. Now they look at every file (but don't read every word in every application)
      • It would take 20-30 minutes to read every word in app, which isn't feasible
      • They look at every file now but stop looking at it if they decide this person has no chance of making it to the end (acceptance) based on something they read
      • Going through files and giving everyone the benefit of a look until it’s obvious the person has no chance or until it’s obvious there is a chance and they should get a secondary
      • Exclude about 1/3 of people through this screening process and don’t exclude anyone in that process who Dean Wofsy thinks ultimately could make it to an acceptance - secondary screening eliminates about 1/3 of candidates - go from 8,000 applicants to 5,000 secondaries
Click to expand...
The important takeaways for COVID were as follows:

1. UCSF will be MCAT agnostic this cycle even for extending acceptances.
2. Larger emphasis on GPA/LoR/ other application metrics as a result.
3. Dr. Wofsy doesn't foresee any particular impacts to applicants outside of not getting the opportunity to physically visit the city/ institution. Virtual interviews shouldn't cause too much of an impact, since he believes the II-screen to be the biggest hurdle to getting accepted.
4. If you have questions regarding how a school handled COVID-19, be direct and don't hesitate to ask. As everyone has been affected by the pandemic, it would be almost weird to not ask any related questions.
 
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Iced Milk Tea said:
The important takeaways for COVID were as follows:
1. UCSF will be MCAT agnostic this cycle even for extending acceptances.
Click to expand...
As someone relying more on their MCAT than GPA, oof. Oof, infinity. Thank you for sharing regardless.
 
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II earlier tonight! Beyond excited, this feels surreal. Thanks @Cole42 for the information, super useful and a good confidence boost!
 
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Cole42 said:
I just went to a virtual interview prep session where the guest speaker was Dean Wofsy from UCSF. He gave a lot of insight into how UCSF conducts their process, so I figured it might be helpful to share with those following this thread in case they weren't able to attend. I was typing while he was talking, so there are a lot of sentence fragments, but I tried to capture what he said as best as I could. If anyone has notes from the end when he talked about attitudes toward the MCAT given COVID, feel free to share as I had to deal with a family situation and couldn't take good notes during that time:

General Comments:
  • Remember there are human beings on the other end of this process - often get different answers to the same question
  • Every school does it differently and individuals have different opinions
  • Don’t get thrown by conflicting advice - you will get conflicting advice
  • People on other end of process are more like us than we think - trying to do right thing, looking for things we would value
  • What would I be thinking if I were in their shoes?
  • What weakness should I address or strength I want to shine through?
  • In the end, medical schools have limited information to judge based on
Schools have 5 things in mind: think about where do I stack up on these 5 things?
  1. Academic Work: You can do the academic work when you get there - not a contest or game of who has best GPA/MCAT - know broad range of grades and MCATs can be great doctors and don’t believe you have to score in 99th percentile on MCAT or 3.8+ GPA but need to know you can do the academic work (shown by undergrad GPA - for those people, MCAT doesn’t matter much; MCAT for those who have lower undergrad GPA; for career changers or those who didn’t do well in undergrad, can prove academics in postbacc program but file has to do that)
  2. Something "Extra": Need to do more than just satisfy the academic work - must have something extra (research, community service, or a talent that has nothing to do with medicine but shows devotion to excellence, etc.) - for many people something extra comes from life experience - can be shown during letters, ECs or personal statement
  3. School Mission: At UCSF, they look for graduates to contribute to society in every area that physicians have an impact - like people for different reasons (if they aren’t going to be a great scientist, don’t need to be judged by that metric and can judge them on narrowing healthcare disparities in California or health policy changing way health care is delivered) - at UCSF, looking for different strengths in different people, no formula for getting in - looking for "Who are the good human beings?"
  4. LORs: So important for letter writers to speak to committee not about the highest grade but what we were like and to some degree that interviews give insight into that too
  5. Diversity: every school interest in diversity in a broad sense - includes racial and ethnic diversity (compelling data that if you want to serve all communities, need to train physicians who will go back and care about them) - diversity includes race, ethnicity, geography, etc. and also sexual orientation, SES, gender, and so on
Interview Offer:
  • Offering an interview is where the decision gets made - the decision doesn’t get made at the end after you interview - the reality is that the hard moment is getting the invitation to get interviewed
  • Tables have turned when you get an interview application (though most applicants and committees aren’t conscious of that) - at that point, you’re being recruited, not judged
  • At UCSF, interview 500 people and by the time go down waiting list, have sent 280 acceptances for 160 spots - over 50% chance of getting in if you got an interview
  • The real hurdle is getting invited for an interview
  • By interview, school has already decided you are good enough - if UCSF interviews you, chances are you will go somewhere great (absent really bad luck)
Mistakes applicants make:
  • Biggest mistake - don’t look at it as if they are on the other side of the process - they don’t identify weaknesses
  • Other applicant mistake - they think they have to stand out in the personal statement - very few people who get into medical school get in because of what they wrote in personal statement (but many tried so hard to stand out that it hurts them)
    • Show you can command the English language, write coherent relevant page (why medicine)
    • If personal statement is wonderful and rest of the file isn’t, you’re not getting in
  • Common interview mistake - deciding before interview what you want to say (need to be thinking on feet and responding to the questions)
Other interview tips:
  • Don’t talk for 10 minutes - make it conversational in classic interview
  • Pretend you’ve just sat down to lunch with someone you don’t know (family friend or something) and they are getting to know you and you’re getting to know them - comfortable, relaxed, conversational interaction where genuinely listening and genuinely interested
  • Over-rehearsed interviews are noticed and not liked (still rehearse but to practice comfort, not what you are going to say - need to be able to think on your feet and respond)
  • Other pitfalls: name-dropping, acting too arrogant/big for yourself (especially at schools where you have a prior connection)
How UCSF eliminates people after interviews:
  • Approach is that the interviewers are not decision makers - they write narrative reports like another letter of recommendation
  • Entirely different committee looks at whole file and makes decision (20 people on the committee look at whole file to make decision)
  • Moved to that 5 years ago because before they were basing it on personality of interviewer - prejudiced process too much based on luck of draw on interviewer (who would advocate most strongly for final decision based on personality)
  • Now 20 people who have not met you integrate information in file and those 20 people vote
  • 3 outcomes - accept/reject/alternate list
  • If just voted, everyone would be accepted after interview because you have 500 interviewed people who were chosen because their file is great and had a positive interview
  • At UCSF, what they do is say to the committee, have to divide up your votes into thirds
    • Which third impresses you the most?
    • Which will be waitlist?
    • Which will we decline?
    • Dean tracks it and over course of the season he tries to force the committee to vote 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 in those 3 categories
    • Usually 40% or more accept and 20-25% reject - it’s close enough and they have enough spots for it to be the way it comes out - will be done that way again this year even though Dean Wofsy isn't running it this year
  • They aren’t deciding who is not good enough - it’s not based on weakness or doing something wrong but rather the intensity of the competition
Screening process for secondary applications:
  • There are 3 ways to use data they have to make decision
    • 1. Can have strict numerical cutoffs
    • 2. Can have a formula (what UCSF used to do) - get points for everyone you can think of like are they in-state, GPA, MCAT, etc. and more than a certain number of points got a secondary automatically
      • UCSF threw out this system because they didn't want to throw out an applicant for getting less research points if their "something extra" was community service - because UCSF judges based on different metrics, this system didn't make sense
    • 3. Now they look at every file (but don't read every word in every application)
      • It would take 20-30 minutes to read every word in app, which isn't feasible
      • They look at every file now but stop looking at it if they decide this person has no chance of making it to the end (acceptance) based on something they read
      • Going through files and giving everyone the benefit of a look until it’s obvious the person has no chance or until it’s obvious there is a chance and they should get a secondary
      • Exclude about 1/3 of people through this screening process and don’t exclude anyone in that process who Dean Wofsy thinks ultimately could make it to an acceptance - secondary screening eliminates about 1/3 of candidates - go from 8,000 applicants to 5,000 secondaries
Click to expand...
I was also in that session, and these are wonderful notes! Thanks for taking the time to write them up.
 
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Got a secondary at 8:50 last night, I was losing hope because I had seen others get secondaries with later transmission dates (transmitted 8/5). 2/2 for secondaries from UCSF, hopefully, this cycle yields an II. :soexcited: gentle reminder to not get too neurotic over complete dates etc. :)
 
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Iced Milk Tea said:
The important takeaways for COVID were as follows:

1. UCSF will be MCAT agnostic this cycle even for extending acceptances.
2. Larger emphasis on GPA/LoR/ other application metrics as a result.
3. Dr. Wofsy doesn't foresee any particular impacts to applicants outside of not getting the opportunity to physically visit the city/ institution. Virtual interviews shouldn't cause too much of an impact, since he believes the II-screen to be the biggest hurdle to getting accepted.
4. If you have questions regarding how a school handled COVID-19, be direct and don't hesitate to ask. As everyone has been affected by the pandemic, it would be almost weird to not ask any related questions.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info! For clarification on point 1, does "MCAT agnostic" mean that their admission process is completely MCAT blind, or just that the absence of an MCAT won't disqualify an applicant? Just wondering if MCAT scores will still be taken into consideration for those who have them (speaking as one who is leaning on the MCAT to balance out a non-spectacular GPA).
 
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entropic_kitten said:
Thanks for the info! For clarification on point 1, does "MCAT agnostic" mean that their admission process is completely MCAT blind, or just that the absence of an MCAT won't disqualify an applicant? Just wondering if MCAT scores will still be taken into consideration for those who have them (speaking as one who is leaning on the MCAT to balance out a non-spectacular GPA).
Click to expand...
From what I understood, the process is MCAT blind, even for applicants with scores.
 
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Iced Milk Tea said:
From what I understood, the process is MCAT blind, even for applicants with scores.
Click to expand...

Man... I'm glad they're setting that up to help applicants without MCAT scores, but I wish I had known earlier. Could've saved myself the money and stress of applying, given that my MCAT is my main compensation for a kinda trash GPA :/
 
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wpneuro said:
Man... I'm glad they're setting that up to help applicants without MCAT scores, but I wish I had known earlier. Could've saved myself the money and stress of applying, given that my MCAT is my main compensation for a kinda trash GPA :/
Click to expand...
Same
 
wpneuro said:
Man... I'm glad they're setting that up to help applicants without MCAT scores, but I wish I had known earlier. Could've saved myself the money and stress of applying, given that my MCAT is my main compensation for a kinda trash GPA :/
Click to expand...
I would love to see the numbers of how many applicants truly applied with no MCAT score. It really seems like this anti-MCAT push by schools like UCSF was impulsive and short-sighted. Perhaps 5% of applicants get a boost bc they don’t have an MCAT, while the remaining 95% have their hard work, emotional and financial cost given for that test entirely discounted.
 
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I just got a secondary from UCSF!!! (OOS and got verified pretty late in early August) I'm just so happy about this that I wanted to post on here.
 
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ankiim said:
I just got a secondary from UCSF!!! (OOS and got verified pretty late in early August) I'm just so happy about this that I wanted to post on here.
Click to expand...
Congratulations! We are excited for you!
 
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Secondary received just now! OOS, verified 8/11
 
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Does applying to dual programs increase your chances of getting in?
 
I just got my secondary yesterday (verified a month ago), Lizzy M: 66. In State ORM. Kind of shocked I made it thought the screen. I have no connections to UCSF... Is it normal for someone in my position to get a secondary from UCSF? I will say I think I have great resume, app, etc... but I applied as a total reach and im just a bit beside myself here. Don't get me wrong, very happy, just curious. Thanks in advance.
 
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satdixon said:
I know some schools have seats reserved for certain programs like MD/MPH, so I was just wondering
Click to expand...

Sorry wasn't trying to sound snappy :/ but to clarify I think most/all programs either evaluate you for the MD and then if you get it, the MPH isnt really hard or its a completely separate committee where you'd be evaluated on the fit for the overall program.


jpk429 said:
I just got my secondary yesterday (verified a month ago), Lizzy M: 66. In State ORM. Kind of shocked I made it thought the screen. I have no connections to UCSF... Is it normal for someone in my position to get a secondary from UCSF? I will say I think I have great resume, app, etc... but I applied as a total reach and im just a bit beside myself here. Don't get me wrong, very happy, just curious. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Gotta shoot your shots. Also if the MCAT is whats keeping your LM score down then maybe that might be it?
 
zorcandpals said:
Sorry wasn't trying to sound snappy :/ but to clarify I think most/all programs either evaluate you for the MD and then if you get it, the MPH isnt really hard or its a completely separate committee where you'd be evaluated on the fit for the overall program.




Gotta shoot your shots. Also if the MCAT is whats keeping your LM score down then maybe that might be it?
Click to expand...
So like applying to MD/MPH won't really improve my chances is what I'm getting?
 
so is ucsf mcat blind this cycle or not (incl. for those who have scores)? are they just looking at GPA? am still not completely clear
 
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brainscience2 said:
so is ucsf mcat blind this cycle or not (incl. for those who have scores)? are they just looking at GPA? am still not completely clear
Click to expand...

my understanding from the ex-dean’s webinar is that ucsf is completely mcat blind this cycle!
 
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are there any other completely mcat-blind schools this cycle? heard stanford but it seems like they still look at it if you have it
 
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splicy said:
my understanding from the ex-dean’s webinar is that ucsf is completely mcat blind this cycle!
Click to expand...
Do you know whether the final decision will be made without mcat? From its website, mcat score is blind for secondaries and IIs but not sure it won't affect the decision at all. Btw I have my interview scheduled on 9/29 (which was the very first one available to me on the day when I got a II) but has anyone else received IIs and scheduled an interview? I am so worried that this one is my v first one (and currently the only II I received).
 
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