2022-2023 Nova Southeastern University Dr. Kiran C. Patel College of Osteopathic Medicine (NSU-KPCOM)

[sourjoint]

Disagree, diversity is an incredible quality of medical education and if not present should be a qualifier of the education you are receiving

Your argument is based on the assumption that diversity is the only factor that determines the quality of medical education. However, this is not necessarily true. While diversity can bring various perspectives and experiences to the classroom, it is not the only measure of a good education. There are many other important aspects to consider, such as the quality of the faculty, the rigor of the curriculum, and the availability of resources and technology.

Additionally, the argument makes a blanket statement that if diversity is not present, it should automatically be considered a disqualifier of the education being received. This is a narrow-minded and reductionist approach to evaluating medical education. There are many different factors that contribute to the quality of education and to suggest that one is more important than the others is short-sighted.

Therefore, while diversity is an important aspect of medical education, it is not the only factor that should be considered when evaluating the quality of the education being received. A more comprehensive and nuanced approach is necessary to accurately assess the value of medical education.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[drthedude]

Your argument is based on the assumption that diversity is the only factor that determines the quality of medical education. However, this is not necessarily true. While diversity can bring various perspectives and experiences to the classroom, it is not the only measure of a good education. There are many other important aspects to consider, such as the quality of the faculty, the rigor of the curriculum, and the availability of resources and technology.

Additionally, the argument makes a blanket statement that if diversity is not present, it should automatically be considered a disqualifier of the education being received. This is a narrow-minded and reductionist approach to evaluating medical education. There are many different factors that contribute to the quality of education and to suggest that one is more important than the others is short-sighted.

Therefore, while diversity is an important aspect of medical education, it is not the only factor that should be considered when evaluating the quality of the education being received. A more comprehensive and nuanced approach is necessary to accurately assess the value of medical education.

your argument is based on the assumption that diversity is a factor that is not important within patient care as well as medical education. I truly hope that you can see how narrow-minded and hurtful your opinion is for your future patients that have had issues with diversity within our healthcare system. Best of luck to you

 

[TiramisuLover99]

Your argument is based on the assumption that diversity is the only factor that determines the quality of medical education. However, this is not necessarily true. While diversity can bring various perspectives and experiences to the classroom, it is not the only measure of a good education. There are many other important aspects to consider, such as the quality of the faculty, the rigor of the curriculum, and the availability of resources and technology.

Additionally, the argument makes a blanket statement that if diversity is not present, it should automatically be considered a disqualifier of the education being received. This is a narrow-minded and reductionist approach to evaluating medical education. There are many different factors that contribute to the quality of education and to suggest that one is more important than the others is short-sighted.

Therefore, while diversity is an important aspect of medical education, it is not the only factor that should be considered when evaluating the quality of the education being received. A more comprehensive and nuanced approach is necessary to accurately assess the value of medical education.

I don't know where you are getting this, but I never said diversity is the sole qualifier of education quality. But also, yes quality of faculty is important... but diverse faculty with a diverse range of experiences and educational and life backgrounds will enhance students' learning and experience. Yes, quality of curriculum is important, but pulling from a variety of sources and perspectives that all form that curriculum will enhance the quality of that curriculum. Diversity doesn't just mean different skin colors, it means diversity of perspective and information too. Diversity is therefore not only one factor that goes into it, it's more of an overarching theme that will help to shape all of those other factors you mentioned too. It is all intertwined. Looking at it as "medical education is made up of X number of factors, so if one doesn't work out it's not a huge deal" is in fact an example of that reductionist approach you just critiqued. All X of those factors complement each other, it's the concept of the whole being greater than just the sum of its individual parts.

 

[sourjoint]

I don't know where you are getting this, but I never said diversity is the sole qualifier of education quality. But also, yes quality of faculty is important... but diverse faculty with a diverse range of experiences and educational and life backgrounds will enhance students' learning and experience. Yes, quality of curriculum is important, but pulling from a variety of sources and perspectives that all form that curriculum will enhance the quality of that curriculum. Diversity doesn't just mean different skin colors, it means diversity of perspective and information too. Diversity is therefore not only one factor that goes into it, it's more of an overarching theme that will help to shape all of those other factors you mentioned too. It is all intertwined. Looking at it as "medical education is made up of X number of factors, so if one doesn't work out it's not a huge deal" is in fact an example of that reductionist approach you just critiqued. All X of those factors complement each other, it's the concept of the whole being greater than just the sum of its individual parts.

Yes, it is widely accepted that diversity is valuable in education and that a diverse range of perspectives and experiences can enhance students' learning and experience. However, it is also true that the quality of diversity is important. A diverse range of perspectives and experiences is only beneficial if the individuals contributing those perspectives are knowledgeable, experienced, and capable of effectively communicating their ideas. It is also important to ensure that diversity is representative and inclusive so that all students can benefit from a range of perspectives that are relevant to their experiences and identities. In conclusion, both the quantity and quality of diversity are important considerations in education, and it is important to strive for both in order to provide the best possible learning experiences for students.

It is important to prioritize quality in medical education and ensure that only qualified and capable individuals are allowed to practice medicine regardless of diversity, skin color, religious or socioeconomic background, etc. This is not only important for the educational experiences of students and faculty, but also for the safety and well-being of the patient population. By prioritizing high-performing students who have the potential to excel in medicine, we can help ensure that future healthcare providers are well-equipped to provide the best possible care to patients. It is essential to balance the value of diversity in education with the importance of ensuring that only qualified individuals are allowed to practice medicine in order to provide the best outcomes for both students and patients.

It is also important for the original poster to understand the statements made by Dean Elaine Wallace in context and not make incorrect assumptions or accusations. Dean Wallace is a respected physician and educator with a wealth of experience, and it is unlikely that their statements would be intended to promote lower-quality education or the admission of unqualified individuals into medical programs. By considering the statements from a more nuanced and informed perspective, the original poster can avoid misinterpreting or misrepresenting the views of this highly experienced and educated individual.

Further discussion on this misunderstanding is unlikely to provide any additional benefit. The importance of quality in medical education and the need to ensure that only qualified individuals are allowed to practice medicine is clear. By focusing on this key point and avoiding misunderstandings and misinterpretations, we can ensure that the best outcomes are achieved for us students and our future patients alike. Beyond this point, it may be more productive to move on to other topics and continue the conversation in a constructive and informed manner.

 

[sourjoint]

your argument is based on the assumption that diversity is a factor that is not important within patient care as well as medical education. I truly hope that you can see how narrow-minded and hurtful your opinion is for your future patients that have had issues with diversity within our healthcare system. Best of luck to you

I would advise against framing the issue in this manner as it is not productive or respectful. Accusing someone of having a narrow-minded and hurtful opinion can be damaging to the conversation and make it difficult to continue in a constructive manner. Instead, it might be more productive to acknowledge that there may have been a misunderstanding in the original statement and clarify that you believe diversity is important in both medical education and patient care. It is also important to recognize that everyone has different perspectives and experiences and to approach discussions with empathy and openness.

Additionally, as someone who has grown up as an immigrant in a low-income, middle-class family, I may have a deeper understanding of the importance of diversity and the unique perspectives it brings to healthcare and medical education.

Best of luck to you, too.

 

[TiramisuLover99]

Yes, it is widely accepted that diversity is valuable in education and that a diverse range of perspectives and experiences can enhance students' learning and experience. However, it is also true that the quality of diversity is important. A diverse range of perspectives and experiences is only beneficial if the individuals contributing those perspectives are knowledgeable, experienced, and capable of effectively communicating their ideas. It is also important to ensure that diversity is representative and inclusive so that all students can benefit from a range of perspectives that are relevant to their experiences and identities. In conclusion, both the quantity and quality of diversity are important considerations in education, and it is important to strive for both in order to provide the best possible learning experiences for students.

It is important to prioritize quality in medical education and ensure that only qualified and capable individuals are allowed to practice medicine regardless of diversity, skin color, religious or socioeconomic background, etc. This is not only important for the educational experiences of students and faculty, but also for the safety and well-being of the patient population. By prioritizing high-performing students who have the potential to excel in medicine, we can help ensure that future healthcare providers are well-equipped to provide the best possible care to patients. It is essential to balance the value of diversity in education with the importance of ensuring that only qualified individuals are allowed to practice medicine in order to provide the best outcomes for both students and patients.

It is also important for the original poster to understand the statements made by Dean Elaine Wallace in context and not make incorrect assumptions or accusations. Dean Wallace is a respected physician and educator with a wealth of experience, and it is unlikely that their statements would be intended to promote lower-quality education or the admission of unqualified individuals into medical programs. By considering the statements from a more nuanced and informed perspective, the original poster can avoid misinterpreting or misrepresenting the views of this highly experienced and educated individual.

Further discussion on this misunderstanding is unlikely to provide any additional benefit. The importance of quality in medical education and the need to ensure that only qualified individuals are allowed to practice medicine is clear. By focusing on this key point and avoiding misunderstandings and misinterpretations, we can ensure that the best outcomes are achieved for us students and our future patients alike. Beyond this point, it may be more productive to move on to other topics and continue the conversation in a constructive and informed manner.

I'm not sure that the real question is about admitting unqualified applicants. I am not disagreeing with anything you have said, and I certainly agree that unqualified people should not be practicing medicine. I'm merely adding some more info to an interesting conversation! I do also agree that when emotions come into play, people on this forum have a habit of assuming the worst and reacting negatively when they should probably think things through more rationally. I try to do the same, but I'll admit it's not always easy, and we all sometimes slip up!

your argument is based on the assumption that diversity is a factor that is not important within patient care as well as medical education. I truly hope that you can see how narrow-minded and hurtful your opinion is for your future patients that have had issues with diversity within our healthcare system. Best of luck to you

^ This was definitely an accusation that did not have to be made. Literally nobody said diversity isn't important, they said diversity is a PART of medical education and not all of it. Since you are advising someone else to reflect on their response, I would also invite you to think about your response and the assumptions you made about the post you responded to.

I just wanted to express that I think it is the definition of "qualified" that becomes subjective. A qualified applicant will have a variety of meaningful experiences and extracurriculars, good leadership, empathy and many other personal attributes, as well as evidence of academic success and intelligence. Let us say there is a candidate with a 520 MCAT and 3.9 GPA who does not have any particularly special extracurriculars or leadership experiences to talk about. On the other hand, we've got an applicant with a 510 MCAT and a 3.7 GPA who has excellent extracurriculars and super impressive meaningful experiences to share that will ultimately be an asset to them in their pursuit of medicine. The first candidate obviously has significantly higher scores, but does that make them more qualified to study medicine? The second candidate has lower scores, but does that make them less qualified to study medicine? My personal opinion is that the 510, the 520, the 3.9, and the 3.7 are all indicators of a person who is academically capable. But considering other factors that make up the application and the identity of that person is what will ultimately determine which of those candidates is best suited to be admitted to whatever program. Again, not a matter of unqualified applicants in my opinion. It's a matter of the definition of qualified that is often coming up for debate.

 

[drthedude]

I would advise against framing the issue in this manner as it is not productive or respectful. Accusing someone of having a narrow-minded and hurtful opinion can be damaging to the conversation and make it difficult to continue in a constructive manner. Instead, it might be more productive to acknowledge that there may have been a misunderstanding in the original statement and clarify that you believe diversity is important in both medical education and patient care. It is also important to recognize that everyone has different perspectives and experiences and to approach discussions with empathy and openness.

Additionally, as someone who has grown up as an immigrant in a low-income, middle-class family, I may have a deeper understanding of the importance of diversity and the unique perspectives it brings to healthcare and medical education.

Best of luck to you, too.

I'm not sure that the real question is about admitting unqualified applicants. I am not disagreeing with anything you have said, and I certainly agree that unqualified people should not be practicing medicine. I'm merely adding some more info to an interesting conversation! I do also agree that when emotions come into play, people on this forum have a habit of assuming the worst and reacting negatively when they should probably think things through more rationally. I try to do the same, but I'll admit it's not always easy, and we all sometimes slip up!


^ This was definitely an accusation that did not have to be made. Literally nobody said diversity isn't important, they said diversity is a PART of medical education and not all of it. Since you are advising someone else to reflect on their response, I would also invite you to think about your response and the assumptions you made about the post you responded to.

I just wanted to express that I think it is the definition of "qualified" that becomes subjective. A qualified applicant will have a variety of meaningful experiences and extracurriculars, good leadership, empathy and many other personal attributes, as well as evidence of academic success and intelligence. Let us say there is a candidate with a 520 MCAT and 3.9 GPA who does not have any particularly special extracurriculars or leadership experiences to talk about. On the other hand, we've got an applicant with a 510 MCAT and a 3.7 GPA who has excellent extracurriculars and super impressive meaningful experiences to share that will ultimately be an asset to them in their pursuit of medicine. The first candidate obviously has significantly higher scores, but does that make them more qualified to study medicine? The second candidate has lower scores, but does that make them less qualified to study medicine? My personal opinion is that the 510, the 520, the 3.9, and the 3.7 are all indicators of a person who is academically capable. But considering other factors that make up the application and the identity of that person is what will ultimately determine which of those candidates is best suited to be admitted to whatever program. Again, not a matter of unqualified applicants in my opinion. It's a matter of the definition of qualified that is often coming up for debate.

It seems like my point was unfortunately lost on translation, my point is not to say that diversity is the only thing that matters and that if there isn’t any then it’s the end all be all, my point is to say that it is an extremely important part of medical education and should be treated as such. Many other factors do indeed come into play but I personally believe diversity to be the top player and my opinion on that will not change. Coming from a low SES immigrant family as well, that is where my point of diversity being the top player comes from. I appreciate the open dialogue present and apologize if either of you were offended by the response

 

[TiramisuLover99]

It seems like my point was unfortunately lost on translation, my point is not to say that diversity is the only thing that matters and that if there isn’t any then it’s the end all be all, my point is to say that it is an extremely important part of medical education and should be treated as such. Many other factors do indeed come into play but I personally believe diversity to be the top player and my opinion on that will not change. Coming from a low SES immigrant family as well, that is where my point of diversity being the top player comes from. I appreciate the open dialogue present and apologize if either of you were offended by the response

Thank you for clarifying and I do also greatly appreciate the open dialogue going on here. It's just that it is a little difficult not to perceive a statement like "I truly hope that you can see how narrow-minded and hurtful your opinion is" as being offensive. I understand that you think diversity is the most important factor, but please also understand that other people feeling that other factors are equally important is not synonymous with them not believing in the importance of diversity or their being narrow-minded and hurtful.

FYI, also a POC from an immigrant family.

 

[drthedude]

Thank you for clarifying and I do also greatly appreciate the open dialogue going on here. It's just that it is a little difficult not to perceive a statement like "I truly hope that you can see how narrow-minded and hurtful your opinion is" as being offensive. I understand that you think diversity is the most important factor, but please also understand that other people feeling that other factors are equally important is not synonymous with them not believing in the importance of diversity or their being narrow-minded and hurtful.

FYI, also a POC from an immigrant family.

Absolutely and I do believe that statement could be mended to further my original point. Once again as you said I do appreciate the open dialogue going on, we are all human after all and discussions like these greatly do help!

 

[medenagan]

The argument you presented is based on a selective memory of what the speaker, Dean Elaine Wallace, said and is therefore unreliable. It is possible that the person recalling the statement may have misunderstood or misremembered what was said. Additionally, the use of terms like "lower qualified" and "high performing" can be subjective and open to interpretation, making it difficult to accurately assess the speaker's intent. It is important to consider multiple sources and viewpoints when evaluating a statement or argument.

 

[Tangyturnip]

Officially rescinded my A. Super happy for whoever it goes to!!

 

[sourjoint]

Saw your posts at Touro Middletown campus. Are you heading there?

 

[idfhg lajdhf aisdhf]

Hi, does anyone know of any Facebook groups or related resources for connecting new students looking for housing and roommates? I joined the class of 2027 Facebook page but there is nothing posted and it doesn't seem like its meant for finding housing accommodations and connecting students.

 

[deleted1141836]

missed a call from NOVA today, I called back the number and it went to voicemail saying it was an admissions counselor. They didn't leave a voicemail and I've had no email either. Wondering if this could be a rejection or II call? kinda weird they didn't leave any voicemail... When I received the complete call they left a voicemail but no email.

 

[newdoctor2015]

when do you guys get the zoom link for those who did virtual interviews?

 

[username1999]

II just minutes ago. OOS LM 67 complete end of August

 

[chickennuggets100]

II today as well, LM 61

 

[krismeth]

II also! Anyone have any interview tips for this school?

 

[latinadoc119]

Hi! Current M2 and willing to answer questions if you guys have any

 

[TheCoDFather]

Hello! Current M1 at the TBR campus and willing to answer any questions

 

[drakes_feet_pics]

Yes, it is widely accepted that diversity is valuable in education and that a diverse range of perspectives and experiences can enhance students' learning and experience. However, it is also true that the quality of diversity is important. A diverse range of perspectives and experiences is only beneficial if the individuals contributing those perspectives are knowledgeable, experienced, and capable of effectively communicating their ideas. It is also important to ensure that diversity is representative and inclusive so that all students can benefit from a range of perspectives that are relevant to their experiences and identities. In conclusion, both the quantity and quality of diversity are important considerations in education, and it is important to strive for both in order to provide the best possible learning experiences for students.

It is important to prioritize quality in medical education and ensure that only qualified and capable individuals are allowed to practice medicine regardless of diversity, skin color, religious or socioeconomic background, etc. This is not only important for the educational experiences of students and faculty, but also for the safety and well-being of the patient population. By prioritizing high-performing students who have the potential to excel in medicine, we can help ensure that future healthcare providers are well-equipped to provide the best possible care to patients. It is essential to balance the value of diversity in education with the importance of ensuring that only qualified individuals are allowed to practice medicine in order to provide the best outcomes for both students and patients.

It is also important for the original poster to understand the statements made by Dean Elaine Wallace in context and not make incorrect assumptions or accusations. Dean Wallace is a respected physician and educator with a wealth of experience, and it is unlikely that their statements would be intended to promote lower-quality education or the admission of unqualified individuals into medical programs. By considering the statements from a more nuanced and informed perspective, the original poster can avoid misinterpreting or misrepresenting the views of this highly experienced and educated individual.

Further discussion on this misunderstanding is unlikely to provide any additional benefit. The importance of quality in medical education and the need to ensure that only qualified individuals are allowed to practice medicine is clear. By focusing on this key point and avoiding misunderstandings and misinterpretations, we can ensure that the best outcomes are achieved for us students and our future patients alike. Beyond this point, it may be more productive to move on to other topics and continue the conversation in a constructive and informed manner.

bruh y'all cannot tell me this is a real person lmfao no way chatgpt didn't write this

 

[medenagan]

bruh y'all cannot tell me this is a real person lmfao no way chatgpt didn't write this

I’m not a robot

 

[ThisIsntABeach]

I’m not a robot

Choose all the slides which contain images of stoplights then…

 

[amazinmedicine]

Does anyone know whats the lowest mcat score accepted

 

[amazinmedicine]

I agree with everything she said. She didn’t say that she doesn’t value diversity, she said that it doesn’t matter where you come when it comes to deciding who’s accepted and who’s not.

She sounds ignorant because affirmative action isnt about letting “ lower qualified individuals of color” to practice medicine thats not wtf affirmative action is. So that in itself is very bozo style behavior

 

[TiramisuLover99]

She sounds ignorant because affirmative action isnt about letting “ lower qualified individuals of color” to practice medicine thats not wtf affirmative action is. So that in itself is very bozo style behavior

I feel like people are treating high grades as being synonymous with "qualified", and that's where a big part of the issue comes from. Yes, it looks like from average statistics that people of color e.g. Black and Hispanic individuals, can get into the same programs as those who are over-represented in medicine e.g. White or Asian individuals, with significantly lower MCAT scores and/or GPAs. That doesn't necessarily make those individuals LESS qualified, I think that's where the discussion gets heated.

A person with a 510 and a person with a 520 are both qualified to attend medical school, but they probably both have different identities, experiences, resumes, attributes, that define their profile in ADDITION to their academic performance. As an example, if you were to admit a Black student with a 510 over a White student with a 520, you are letting an individual with lower academic performance study medicine. Letting an individual with lower academic performance study medicine DOES NOT equal letting an individual who is less qualified to study medicine, study medicine.

If grades were all it took to be a good doctor, schools wouldn't care about your ECs or your leadership or your shadowing or your volunteering. That is why I respect so much the way admission to medical school works in this country over so many others. In SO many other places, it is SOLELY a competition for grades where the top percentile and above test scorers will get admission and nobody else has a chance. That is not how it works in this country and I love that.

 

[drthedude]

Really just wanted to post this haha

 

[sourjoint]

Is the HCA Florida University Hospital on/near the Fr. Lauderdale/Davie campus used by DO students for clinical training?

 

[nhok89]

Is the HCA Florida University Hospital on/near the Fr. Lauderdale/Davie campus used by DO students for clinical training?

As of right now we cannot, but the admins said they're having meetings between the hospital and the school to make it happen.

 

[chrispik]

Does anyone know how long it usually takes to hear back after an interview? Interviewed on 02/14.

 

[sourjoint]

Can upperclassmen comment about the rural medicine rotation? When does it have to be taken and for how long? Could it be completed in the US or only abroad?

 

[Futuredoc0820]

Does anyone know how long it usually takes to hear back after an interview? Interviewed on 02/14.

3 weeks

 

[robin1710]

Hi! Current M2 and willing to answer questions if you guys have any

Hi, I just got accepted to the BS/DO program 3 plus 4 program in Ft Lauderdale. Not sure if I should go or not, do you have any thoughts on the program, I read a lot on here and Reddit and have some concerns. Thanks for helping

 

[premed1726]

Have there been any new II invites here?

 

[drakes_feet_pics]

Have there been any new II invites here?

wondering the same thing, I feel like it's been a long time since I've submitted

 

[sourjoint]

Can M2s in this forum talk a little bit about how the board prep at NSU is and when they stop the lectures to allow more time to solely study for the boards?

Besides, just saw that NSU has a strong residency match list https://osteopathic.nova.edu/do/residency-board-scores.html. Does it correlate more with the academic strength of the faculty and the curriculum, or with that of the students?

 

[theoreo]

II today, OOS

 

[drakes_feet_pics]

II today, OOS

congrats, do you mind sharing stats?

 

[theoreo]

congrats, do you mind sharing stats?

50X MCAT, 3.4cGPA

 

[Lieutenant_Dan]

50X MCAT, 3.4cGPA

I’m fairly new to this forum. I’m wondering why I see many people write they have a 3.3x GPA for example or a 50X mcat/49X? I understand it’s a personal thing but it’s not like our identity is visible on this forum from what I’m aware of. I understand people have their preference, just was curious.

 

[TiramisuLover99]

I’m fairly new to this forum. I’m wondering why I see many people write they have a 3.3x GPA for example or a 50X mcat/49X? I understand it’s a personal thing but it’s not like our identity is visible on this forum from what I’m aware of. I understand people have their preference, just was curious.

Some people just don't feel comfortable giving out specific numbers. People may feel that a specific GPA and MCAT combo might make it easier to identify them. Especially if there are specific school pages they have posted on or if they have revealed they are in-state anywhere. An in-state applicant to a specific university with a specific GPA and MCAT could probably easily be identified.

 

[Lieutenant_Dan]

Some people just don't feel comfortable giving out specific numbers. People may feel that a specific GPA and MCAT combo might make it easier to identify them. Especially if there are specific school pages they have posted on or if they have revealed they are in-state anywhere. An in-state applicant to a specific university with a specific GPA and MCAT could probably easily be identified.

That makes sense. I didn’t consider that perspective. That would be a lot of effort on a school’s part if they did that much research into the forum and all the hundreds of comments, although I imagine some do. I didn’t even know this was a thing until recently. Has been interesting to read through.

 

[marsinmedicine]

II today!

 

[laureleilf]

Received an II, OOS. Declined. Hoping it goes to one of you!

 

[p_nee]

do we think A's are coming out today for 2/9 ii?

 

[theoceanman]

Does anyone have the GroupMe or Discord chat for this school?

 

[medizzy]

Just got the A!!! Interviewed 2/9 🥹

 

[chrispik]

Does anyone know how much waitlist movement there is here?

 

[Erei1105]

Did anyone catch during the interview day, what was the probability of the campus change to your preferred campus being granted?

 

[Rocko12]

Did anyone catch during the interview day, what was the probability of the campus change to your preferred campus being granted?

If you put down the full deposit rn you have a good chance of getting whatever campus you select on the form they send when you’re accepted. You have the option to choose a different campus than the one you put on your initial application.