232 on step 1...worrisome or no?

[bluelamin]

should i be worried about matching gen surg - assuming i do better on step 2. i would like to have the chance to pursue fellowship post-residency so im guessing its more competitive to match into academic gen surg programs that have fellowship opportunities than just community ones.

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[WinslowPringle]

If you’re a US MD with no IAs/red marks on the chart, have passed your classes and pass step 2 first go round, get decent letters and apply to a reasonable swath of places, I would expect you to match. 232 doesn’t close many doors although it doesn’t widely fling them all open for you.
Community programs can be great and you can definitely match fellowships from them; don’t rule them out based on preconceived notions.

 

[bluelamin]

If you’re a US MD with no IAs/red marks on the chart, have passed your classes and pass step 2 first go round, get decent letters and apply to a reasonable swath of places, I would expect you to match. 232 doesn’t close many doors although it doesn’t widely fling them all open for you.
Community programs can be great and you can definitely match fellowships from them; don’t rule them out based on preconceived notions.

thats great to hear! oh thats interesting to know about community programs. any names you might suggest?

 

[WinslowPringle]

It's been >5 years since I applied. Things have changed a great deal.
Here are some (old) threads that helped me:

Some Comments on Community Programs

As a medical student interested in community surgery programs, but schooling at an academic institution, I often found it difficult to obtain information about the well-regarded community programs. I did benefit from information on this forum, thought it also was limited. Below are notes I took...

forums.studentdoctor.net

What are the hidden gems out there?

I recently spoke with a student about a residency that would have never been on my radar at all: not a big name institution, and not in an area of the country I had considered. However, his review of the place made me immediately feel that I may end up ranking that program highly - and now I am...

forums.studentdoctor.net

hidden gems?

First off, I get it-- no one will ever post program reviews since SDN is so blatantly NOT anonymous. But, since scutwork is dead-- would any of you MS4s / interns / residents whose minds are still unclouded from the fog of war be willing to mention programs you discovered on the interview...

forums.studentdoctor.net

G. Surgery Programs: The Diamnods in the Rough

I'm sure a lot of current 3rd years are thinking about what programs to apply to. We all know about the big time programs (MGH, Duke, Hopkins), but what about the "Diamonds in the rough"? Those programs that you interviewed at and fell in love with... but could only match at one. Here's my...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Some names that I heard as a resident from med students talking about from their interviews/applications were: St. Joseph Denver, Central Iowa Health/Iowa Methodist Des Moines, Carle Foundation Urbana, St. Vincent Indianapolis, University of Kansas - Wichita, Ochsner Clinic New Orleans, Lahey Burlington, St. Joseph Mercy Ypsilanti, Hennepin Co Minneapolis, Carolinas Medical Center Charlotte, New Hanover Regional Medical Center Wilmington, St. Luke's Bethlehem PA, Scott & White Temple TX, Swedish Seattle, Virginia Mason Seattle, Gunderson Lutheran LaCrosse. Some of them could definitely be argued 'academic' or hybrid.

At the end of the day, all residents including those at 'community' hospitals have to get the same numbers and pass (or not get to take, I'm looking at you American Board of Surgery and your technical failures....ahem) the same tests. There is definitely a wide range of training experiences but any program in the US will give you the tools needed to be a safe surgeon; the evaluation of the training schema should probably be thought of at much more of an individual level than just straight up academic/community. And that's tough......I'd also recommend you talk to any recently graduated people from your class, see what they have to say about where they interviewed and ended up. Despite being super busy as an intern, I was thrilled to answer questions from the next generation about my interview trail.

 

[3member]

It's been >5 years since I applied. Things have changed a great deal.
Here are some (old) threads that helped me:

Some Comments on Community Programs

As a medical student interested in community surgery programs, but schooling at an academic institution, I often found it difficult to obtain information about the well-regarded community programs. I did benefit from information on this forum, thought it also was limited. Below are notes I took...

forums.studentdoctor.net

What are the hidden gems out there?

I recently spoke with a student about a residency that would have never been on my radar at all: not a big name institution, and not in an area of the country I had considered. However, his review of the place made me immediately feel that I may end up ranking that program highly - and now I am...

forums.studentdoctor.net

hidden gems?

First off, I get it-- no one will ever post program reviews since SDN is so blatantly NOT anonymous. But, since scutwork is dead-- would any of you MS4s / interns / residents whose minds are still unclouded from the fog of war be willing to mention programs you discovered on the interview...

forums.studentdoctor.net

G. Surgery Programs: The Diamnods in the Rough

I'm sure a lot of current 3rd years are thinking about what programs to apply to. We all know about the big time programs (MGH, Duke, Hopkins), but what about the "Diamonds in the rough"? Those programs that you interviewed at and fell in love with... but could only match at one. Here's my...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Some names that I heard as a resident from med students talking about from their interviews/applications were: St. Joseph Denver, Central Iowa Health/Iowa Methodist Des Moines, Carle Foundation Urbana, St. Vincent Indianapolis, University of Kansas - Wichita, Ochsner Clinic New Orleans, Lahey Burlington, St. Joseph Mercy Ypsilanti, Hennepin Co Minneapolis, Carolinas Medical Center Charlotte, New Hanover Regional Medical Center Wilmington, St. Luke's Bethlehem PA, Scott & White Temple TX, Swedish Seattle, Virginia Mason Seattle, Gunderson Lutheran LaCrosse. Some of them could definitely be argued 'academic' or hybrid.

At the end of the day, all residents including those at 'community' hospitals have to get the same numbers and pass (or not get to take, I'm looking at you American Board of Surgery and your technical failures....ahem) the same tests. There is definitely a wide range of training experiences but any program in the US will give you the tools needed to be a safe surgeon; the evaluation of the training schema should probably be thought of at much more of an individual level than just straight up academic/community. And that's tough......I'd also recommend you talk to any recently graduated people from your class, see what they have to say about where they interviewed and ended up. Despite being super busy as an intern, I was thrilled to answer questions from the next generation about my interview trail.

Thank you for this! Any advice you would to us regarding what to look for in a program for the upcoming cycle (especially with the lack of aways/in-person interviews)? How would you say one should tease out the most important information regarding "fit"?

 

[WinslowPringle]

Thank you for this! Any advice you would to us regarding what to look for in a program for the upcoming cycle (especially with the lack of aways/in-person interviews)? How would you say one should tease out the most important information regarding "fit"?

Man, I really don't envy you. Can't imagine just doing online interviews. I know for fellowship interviews people really bemoaned having to do all the traveling - but I always felt that I really wanted to meet people on their turf and see their interactions.

It's going to depend on how they do the resident meet and greet type things. Typically we go out to dinner and good things are - lots of residents showing up from all years and residents with families showing up and the residents mingling well with applicants but also talking amongst themselves and having a good time.

And fit is so personal - do you want to do nothing but operate and you don't care about environment? Do you want to do research? What fellowship are you looking for? Do you want to round by yourself with no crowd of med students and midlevels or do you want to do early AM chief rounds? Do you care if there is free food and free parking?

My favorite questions were to ask residents about favorite/interesting cases or favorite residency story....let me know if they loved operating and if they were excited about it. Also heard some cool stories. I asked the chiefs how they ran their service, how they gave feedback, and what was the process for remediation and firing. I asked about the relationships with OR personnel and floor nurses. I asked if all the supplies were locked up - because I was not about to ask a nurse for permission to get my things to do bandage changes. Ask how many residents - particularly female residents - have kids during residency; it's a good marker for program support and attitudes towards 'having a life'. Ask when they get there, when they get home, how call is arranged, how much trauma and how much they were scribes for ortho and neurosurgery. How often do they operate alone? What cases do the chiefs still need to get to handle their numbers? Is there free parking close to the hospital and is there free food? Do all residents do private practice or not? If they do fellowships, where do they go and do - and is it what they wanted to go and do? Do the residents all look super tired (I mean, of course, but worse than usual...)? If there are residents and attendings that you can see 'together' how do they interact? (Also, I would recommend going to the program that has the absolute least amount of trauma as possible - but I am heavily biased about that )

New this year, I'd ask how they handled Covid. What did the hospitals do to protect their staff? How was PPE, how was the OR? If a resident got infected or had to be quarantined, how was that handled?

 

[bluelamin]

It's been >5 years since I applied. Things have changed a great deal.
Here are some (old) threads that helped me:

Some Comments on Community Programs

As a medical student interested in community surgery programs, but schooling at an academic institution, I often found it difficult to obtain information about the well-regarded community programs. I did benefit from information on this forum, thought it also was limited. Below are notes I took...

forums.studentdoctor.net

What are the hidden gems out there?

I recently spoke with a student about a residency that would have never been on my radar at all: not a big name institution, and not in an area of the country I had considered. However, his review of the place made me immediately feel that I may end up ranking that program highly - and now I am...

forums.studentdoctor.net

hidden gems?

First off, I get it-- no one will ever post program reviews since SDN is so blatantly NOT anonymous. But, since scutwork is dead-- would any of you MS4s / interns / residents whose minds are still unclouded from the fog of war be willing to mention programs you discovered on the interview...

forums.studentdoctor.net

G. Surgery Programs: The Diamnods in the Rough

I'm sure a lot of current 3rd years are thinking about what programs to apply to. We all know about the big time programs (MGH, Duke, Hopkins), but what about the "Diamonds in the rough"? Those programs that you interviewed at and fell in love with... but could only match at one. Here's my...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Some names that I heard as a resident from med students talking about from their interviews/applications were: St. Joseph Denver, Central Iowa Health/Iowa Methodist Des Moines, Carle Foundation Urbana, St. Vincent Indianapolis, University of Kansas - Wichita, Ochsner Clinic New Orleans, Lahey Burlington, St. Joseph Mercy Ypsilanti, Hennepin Co Minneapolis, Carolinas Medical Center Charlotte, New Hanover Regional Medical Center Wilmington, St. Luke's Bethlehem PA, Scott & White Temple TX, Swedish Seattle, Virginia Mason Seattle, Gunderson Lutheran LaCrosse. Some of them could definitely be argued 'academic' or hybrid.

At the end of the day, all residents including those at 'community' hospitals have to get the same numbers and pass (or not get to take, I'm looking at you American Board of Surgery and your technical failures....ahem) the same tests. There is definitely a wide range of training experiences but any program in the US will give you the tools needed to be a safe surgeon; the evaluation of the training schema should probably be thought of at much more of an individual level than just straight up academic/community. And that's tough......I'd also recommend you talk to any recently graduated people from your class, see what they have to say about where they interviewed and ended up. Despite being super busy as an intern, I was thrilled to answer questions from the next generation about my interview trail.

seriously this is amazing. thanks so much!

 

[deleted697308]

should i be worried about matching gen surg - assuming i do better on step 2. i would like to have the chance to pursue fellowship post-residency so im guessing its more competitive to match into academic gen surg programs that have fellowship opportunities than just community ones.

there are people at my school who match mid-tier academic with a 220 and a person who matched top 10 with a 230. if you have good research, it does help a great deal!

 

[Spectreman]

Yeah OP, really think you’ll match fine.

I’m a DO with 225/231 going for GS though. Def applying almost exclusively to rural community programs, but I am super worried I’ll be soaping prelim. I have some good research and ECs - pretty well rounded app. Scores are rough though, I’m nervous.

 

[deleted697308]

Yeah OP, really think you’ll match fine.

I’m a DO with 225/231 going for GS though. Def applying almost exclusively to rural community programs, but I am super worried I’ll be soaping prelim. I have some good research and ECs - pretty well rounded app. Scores are rough though, I’m nervous.

I wouldn't worry. Apply broadly! Have friends who matched with lower scores than you. As long as you're realistic and have good research otherwise you can make up for it. My friend is a DO and had scores around yours and she got 3 AOA interviews and matched at her number 1!

 

[Spectreman]

I wouldn't worry. Apply broadly! Have friends who matched with lower scores than you. As long as you're realistic and have good research otherwise you can make up for it. My friend is a DO and had scores around yours and she got 3 AOA interviews and matched at her number 1!

Just found out I pulled a 640 on Lv2! So at least one decent board score in the mix there. Auditioning at all former AOA programs so hopefully it will help.

 

[bluv1212]

should i be worried about matching gen surg - assuming i do better on step 2. i would like to have the chance to pursue fellowship post-residency so im guessing its more competitive to match into academic gen surg programs that have fellowship opportunities than just community ones.

You have to be a charismatic interview. You should be okay. Even at many mid-tier academic programs. A full CV and good clerkship grades help as well. I have seen people with worse scores than you match, and I have seen better scores not match as well.