$250,000 DEBT at most schools if OOS?!

[UAAWolf]

Was looking through MSAR and noticed tons of schools avg around $70,000 a year total living expenses.

I am a firm believer in not getting into deep debt...but I'm puzzled as to how I will escape medical school with under $250,000 debt!!!

I'm a white male from an upper-middle class family...so obviously no one will give me a free handout.


Is there any hope to escape with less damage? With the way things are going I'd hate to end up with this kind of debt...especially if physician salaries decrease at all.

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[daisy44]

I feel you. Though it may be premature to worry about this before I've even received an acceptance, this has been on my mind a LOT lately. I was raised in a very financially conservative family, and I just can't fathom being that severely in debt. I'm from an Asian, upper-middle class family, so no handouts here either.

I also worry that I should have just applied to my state school early decision, b/c who knows if i'll be able to afford any of the other places I've applied to?

 

[womp]

That's why my state school is my top choice! But because of my state's budget problems, even that is not cheap ($30k a year), but it is better than the $44k in most private and OOS tuition schools.

Some schools do give out some merit scholarships though, so that's why it's good to hold out for the schools you applied.

But yeah, makes it a double kick in the balls when a PA can make $80-100k after 2 years of school and no residency, huh?

 

[Perrotfish]

There's always the military.

 

[UAAWolf]

There's always the military.

Yeah I am seriously considering joining the Air Force.

My parents got mad when I told them, and my girlfriend acted like I was going to die on the combat field...truth is it's not a bad deal at all. I don't get why people think the military option for med school is a scam...

 

[UAAWolf]

I just asked my friend how he's gonna pay for medical school.

He said:

"My dad is going to pay for it all..so I am just going to not worry"


Yes I am jealous- but come on man...wtf

 

[airplanes]

Try being from Oregon, our IS cost of attendance is something like 57k per year. and there's only one med school. The UC's and UW are brutal so it's not the best situation if you're looking to stay on the West Coast. (At least the school is top notch)

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Was looking through MSAR and noticed tons of schools avg around $70,000 a year total living expenses.

I am a firm believer in not getting into deep debt...but I'm puzzled as to how I will escape medical school with under $250,000 debt!!!

I'm a white male from an upper-middle class family...so obviously no one will give me a free handout.


Is there any hope to escape with less damage? With the way things are going I'd hate to end up with this kind of debt...especially if physician salaries decrease at all.

If you borrow $70,000 per year you will be $411,000 in debt at the end of a four year residency. Interest accrues on almost all of this cash from the date you borrow until the date it is paid back.

I have attached an EXCEL indebtedness calculator which will help you figure this out. The last scenario on the sheet is a hypothetical med school debt calculator. Just fill in the amount at the italicized dollar that brings up your borrowing to your annual expenses and voila you will see how much debt you will have.

Have fun!

 

[schrizto]

Public schools OOS and private schools costs are similar, excluding the public schools that inflate their tuition so much for OOS to prevent people from applying, and those schools aren't the "top" schools anyway. I think debt is something almost everyone has to deal with.

 

[Aerin Sol]

Yeah I am seriously considering joining the Air Force.

My parents got mad when I told them, and my girlfriend acted like I was going to die on the combat field...truth is it's not a bad deal at all. I don't get why people think the military option for med school is a scam...

From what I understand it is a poor investment to join the military, but I suppose that would depend on your exact loans and their interest rates and your specialty. The argument that I have seen is basically that in the four years (or whatever) required military service, you could make above and beyond what's needed to pay off the loans.

 

[Depakote]

There are a few state schools that offer OOS students IS tuition after the first year. They are worth looking into.

I know some of the Ohio and SUNY schools do this. You might poke around and see if you can find some more when you're figuring out which schools to apply to.

 

[scotsdoc54]

If you borrow $70,000 per year you will be $411,000 in debt at the end of a four year residency. Interest accrues on almost all of this cash from the date you borrow until the date it is paid back.

I have attached an EXCEL indebtedness calculator which will help you figure this out. The last scenario on the sheet is a hypothetical med school debt calculator. Just fill in the amount at the italicized dollar that brings up your borrowing to your annual expenses and voila you will see how much debt you will have.

Have fun!

Once you enter residency, can't you defer? If so, subsidized loans won't accrue interest, and you could technically pay the interest on the unsubsidized/private loans. So you could minimize the damage if you get a deferment. If not, then I believe there is income based repayment plans that can help you manage the repayments.

Regardless, it's a ridiculous amount of money. No wonder physicians command such high salaries (also do to long working hours, length of training, etc.)

 

[johncalvin]

Yeah I am seriously considering joining the Air Force.

... my girlfriend acted like I was going to die on the combat field...

Same. It was actually kind of funny at the moment. In any case, I don't think I'll follow through. Especially because if you're matched into military residency, then you have to go. While the attending have excellent training, I don't know about the quality of equipment or diversity of patients you would be exposed to.

 

[justsomedude]

If you borrow $70,000 per year you will be $411,000 in debt at the end of a four year residency. Interest accrues on almost all of this cash from the date you borrow until the date it is paid back.

I have attached an EXCEL indebtedness calculator which will help you figure this out. The last scenario on the sheet is a hypothetical med school debt calculator. Just fill in the amount at the italicized dollar that brings up your borrowing to your annual expenses and voila you will see how much debt you will have.

Have fun!

The sad fact of the matter is your loan repayments cost you more than the 411,000$. Yes, the total dollar amount of the checks you write back to the bank over the thirty years will cost you 411,000$. However, what else could you have been doing with that money over that time period. Say you socked away 2850$/month (the repayment) into a retirement account over that thirty years that averaged 7% returns (i know, i know, possibly a generous statement now, but into the future may even be a low ball estimate for a good stock/bond investment mix). Know how much cash that translates into? 2.68 million total dollars, 1.07 million inflation adjusted dollars (again, who even knows what inflation will do over the next thirty years, let alone 3 years!)

It seems to be a common misconception among the pre-meds and medical students that the costs of medical school are only defined by the dollar amounts repaid to the bank. To properly assess the total costs (which include opportunity costs), one must analyze the alternatives with what could have been done with the monthly loan repayments.

just something to think about...

 

[DrYoda]

Once you enter residency, can't you defer? If so, subsidized loans won't accrue interest, and you could technically pay the interest on the unsubsidized/private loans. So you could minimize the damage if you get a deferment. If not, then I believe there is income based repayment plans that can help you manage the repayments.

Regardless, it's a ridiculous amount of money. No wonder physicians command such high salaries (also do to long working hours, length of training, etc.)

Not anymore, that rule changed in July.

OP: You don't need to apply to the schools that cost 70k+/yr, there are plenty that cost less...

 

[scotsdoc54]

Not anymore, that rule changed in July.

OP: You don't need to apply to the schools that cost 70k+/yr, there are plenty that cost less...

Can you go into forbearance then?

I only applied to one outrageously expensive school (OOS public), but I think I might be able to obtain in-state residency through marriage. We'll see.

 

[DrYoda]

Can you go into forbearance then?

I only applied to one outrageously expensive school (OOS public), but I think I might be able to obtain in-state residency through marriage. We'll see.

Yes.

 

[45408]

Once you enter residency, can't you defer? If so, subsidized loans won't accrue interest, and you could technically pay the interest on the unsubsidized/private loans. So you could minimize the damage if you get a deferment. If not, then I believe there is income based repayment plans that can help you manage the repayments.

Your ability to defer anything has drastically declined in the past few years. Now, you can forbear! Furthermore, only about $30,000 of your loans are going to be subsidized Stafford loans. The other $220,000 will be all-interest, all the time. And with a resident's salary, you won't be paying off a whole lot.

 

[womp]

(again, who even knows what inflation will do over the next thirty years, let alone 3 years!)

If you have a ton of loans at a fixed rate, inflation is your friend. That's why I cheered the stimulus. Let's inflate ourselves out of our debt!

But yes, your point on opportunity cost is very valid. I did a spreadsheet a while ago, if you get a 60k job right out of college with 3% wage increases, you will probably come out about equal to a primary care doctor at the end of you career. And if you become promoted at anytime to a middle manager position, you're likely to surpass the primary care doctor in total lifetime earnings.

 

[scotsdoc54]

Your ability to defer anything has drastically declined in the past few years. Now, you can forbear! Furthermore, only about $30,000 of your loans are going to be subsidized Stafford loans. The other $220,000 will be all-interest, all the time. And with a resident's salary, you won't be paying off a whole lot.

Could you go into forbearance, pay the interest on your loans while in forbearance, and then start principal repayment once you're making an attending's salary? Would that work out financially?

 

[ensuii]

Keep in mind that COA might be a little inflated. For example, my school has a 46k tuition but the cost of room/board/etc are pretty low. I pay 450 a month for a 1bedroom apartment and end up having to take out like 66k a year to live comfortably. I have other friends and other schools with cheaper tuitions but are paying 1100 a month to share an apartment.

Also, the debt thing really does suck. I had a full ride to my undergrad but went in the hole for the first time ever for first semester of med school. I'll be under by about 240k when I graduate. Honestly...it really does suck knowing that I won't be able to buy a house or new car when I'm 33, but it's still worth it. Your friends are going to make more money for working less...but how many people get the oppurtunity to care for others and heal? Food for thought imo

 

[Perrotfish]

From what I understand it is a poor investment to join the military, but I suppose that would depend on your exact loans and their interest rates and your specialty. The argument that I have seen is basically that in the four years (or whatever) required military service, you could make above and beyond what's needed to pay off the loans

Depends. If you do Family by my calculations you come out nearly 400K ahead of your civilian peers at the end of your service obligation. With Ortho, you're several million behind.

Of course the biggest thing to understand in advance is that the military forces you to go through their match at their hospitals. You probably wont be allowed to do the normal match. If you end up trying to match into something like Emergency Medicine, where the average matriculant has way higher stats than what you see in the civilian world, you can end up feeling really screwed if you didn't know what you were getting in to.

I went Navy, but read through SDN's military medicine forum first.

 

[strummin]

Can't you start paying in-state fees after you've lived there for one year or something like that? or do the rules differ by state?

 

[womp]

Can't you start paying in-state fees after you've lived there for one year or something like that? or do the rules differ by state?

Different states have different rules. It's true in NY and Texas, but states like MA and IL make it impossibly hard to get residency unless you take year(s) off, or work 50% of your tuition in the state (which is rather hard if you're a med student).

 

[Typical Premed]

I anticipate graduating med school with out any debt. My tuition only costs $6250 per year though .

 

[bannie22]

im going to be double that, and i dont really care as long as i get in somewhere. (im international)

 

[MossPoh]

I hear people here whining about tuition and I just laugh. They talk about not being able to pay off debt and we are one of the 15 cheapest schools in the US and housing is cheap too.

 

[Chronicle]

Be very aware that doctors will likely be NOT making good income in the future when the new health care reform is put in place. Many of us will have to suffer quite drastically with a tough future ahead.

 

[Sammich117]

Be very aware that doctors will likely be NOT making good income in the future when the new health care reform is put in place. Many of us will have to suffer quite drastically with a tough future ahead.

I don't think that's true... Mind if I ask why you think we will 'suffer quite drastically?'

Even if paychecks go down, I feel as though doctors will still be making plenty of money.

 

[strummin]

Be very aware that doctors will likely be NOT making good income in the future when the new health care reform is put in place. Many of us will have to suffer quite drastically with a tough future ahead.

BS. There's a shortage of doctors. There will be a bigger shortage of doctors in the future (baby boomer generation retiring).

Whenever there's a shortage, there's a demand. Whenever there's demand, people will pay. Doctors will always have higher salaries because they are in demand and thus have the power to demand a high salary. Stop watching Fox News, buddy. I personally know many doctors in the UK who are filthy rich - and they're only GP's. And they have a much much better healthcare system than us.

 

[ensuii]

Be very aware that doctors will likely be NOT making good income in the future when the new health care reform is put in place. Many of us will have to suffer quite drastically with a tough future ahead.

It's a valid argument to say that reform may have some impact on physician salary...but throwing this out the way you did is definitely pulling something out of your ass =p

 

[orthomyxo]

I hear you man, undergrad is expensive alone. I'm praying for Umass Medical School since their in-state tuition is less than 10K.