29 on the mcat, to retake or not to retake? (my goal = MD med schools)

[mrh125]

edited

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[NontradCA]

I think you know the answer. It's not going to do you any favors by retaking and getting a lower score. Why March? Why not May or June and do more than "light studying"?

Have you identified what your weak areas are and a better study method? I mean 7 months and then getting a 29. I wouldn't expect to magically score different if you haven't changed anything. From what you've said I wouldn't retake it in March.

 

[mrh125]

I think you know the answer. It's not going to do you any favors by retaking and getting a lower score. Why March? Why not May or June and do more than "light studying"?

Have you identified what your weak areas are and a better study method? I mean 7 months and then getting a 29. I wouldn't expect to magically score different if you haven't changed anything. From what you've said I wouldn't retake it in March.

i hit all my weak spots, learned physics because my undergrad facility has a notoriously bad physics program so i didnt even know physics before i started studying. i got like an avg of 9-10 on physci and 10-12 biosci on practice tests.

 

[mrh125]

btw i actually feel like i got more out of the last month of study time than any of the 6 previous months tho verbal bites like seriously.

 

[NontradCA]

Don't take it unless you're certain you'll improve. That's all there is to it. Take it when you're ready. That being said I don't think a 29 will kill your application.

 

[Jennyfishy]

Unless you're 100% sure you can significantly improve with a retake, it's a pretty big gamble at the moment. A 30 looks "better" but isn't worth it if the trade off is potentially a 28 or 27 the 2nd time around.

7 months may have been too spread out/long of a time period for substantial/efficient studying too. And retaking in the next month or 2 may be too short of a time period to ensure a 30+

That being said, if any MD school is your goal, a 29 will also not close all doors for you, assuming LoRs, PS, etc all check out . I was accepted with a 28 MCAT.

If you end up applying with that score and becoming a physician is your goal, you'd also want to apply to a few DOs as back up though. gl!

 

[Goro]

Let's see...avg GPA and <AVG MCAT with very unbalanced subsections.

If you're dead set on MD, then yes, retake. Score at least a 32.

If you're OK with DO, you're fine for any program (including mine). Keep in mind that TUCOM-CA and Western are in your backyard.

*to

I have a 3.62 undergrad gpa, i'm white (no URM), strong improvement trend, good e.c.s. The thing is I spent 7 months studying for the mcat and my score on the real thing was a point higher than my average and I scored the highest in verbal, which I never get above a 10 on (I got a 9/11/9 on the real thing). My goal was a 30 but i'm one point off, should i retake? My score distribution on the real thing was totally different from anything i've ever had on a practice mcat and I'm really not sure if I should be retaking. I have lightly studied in the month waiting for my mcat scores and concepts in the bio sci and phys sci sections seem to make more sense than they did before, but I also expected to get a 12 on the bio sci and like a 6 in the phys sci on the real thing. I'm also totally out of study materials as I had used all of them during my 7 months of studying. On a positive side I have taken the test once and i won't get unnerved at all by the process because I know what's going to happen so I have that on my side.

I'm not sure if I can break 30 and I'm worried that if I retake I'll get a lower score (what happens if I get a lower score or less than 3 points?). I still am registered for an exam on march 31st, though I have to fly from CA to hawaii to take it. I really want to say "try it" again, but what happens if I get like a 31 (dont you need 3 points improvement for it to look good?) or I score the same. Is it worth retaking based off of my stats? I can't decide if it's a gamble or worth it.



I should also note i'm in California so things are crazy competitive so maybe I should just go to a diff state for medical school assuming my stats are competitive for md schools anywhere. I really want to get into an allop med school just so i have more options in the specialities I could choose.

Thoughts? I should also note that I'm applying this cycle.

 

[mrh125]

edited

 

[Espadaleader]

This is a hard call. As it stands, you have a shot of getting in somewhere MD and 100% DO. If you retake and score lower, MD is gone. You subsection scores are balanced. I would not retake. As for the DO residency options, if you are looking to do an ACGME residency or fellowship I would avoid DO programs because the ACGME will allow AOA residents to pursue fellowships only under exceptional circumstances.

If you are not interested in ACGME training, DO is a good option. There are plenty of AOA training opportunities. You can be an AOA surgeon even if ACGME prevents DOs from matching in their programs.

 

[solitarius]

Round 1: Apply without retake to OOS MD.

If it doesn't work, retake. If score improves strongly, apply for Round 2 and include CA MD schools.

 

[mrh125]

This is a hard call. As it stands, you have a shot of getting in somewhere MD and 100% DO. If you retake and score lower, MD is gone. You subsection scores are balanced. I would not retake. As for the DO residency options, if you are looking to do an ACGME residency or fellowship I would avoid DO programs because the ACGME will allow AOA residents to pursue fellowships only under exceptional circumstances.

If you are not interested in ACGME training, DO is a good option. There are plenty of AOA training opportunities. You can be an AOA surgeon even if ACGME prevents DOs from matching in their programs.

How much of a shot would you say I have getting into an avg allopathic med school? (No Caribbean) I mean there are lots of school
Md med schools. And what is acgme?

 

[TreadLightly]

I had a 3.7/29 from CA and I didn't get a single MD interview. If you're white or ORM, it's not looking too great honestly, especially in this state. You might get lucky if you apply broadly, but who knows.

The good news is that you stand a decent chance at the 2 DO schools in CA so you have that option if you want to stay in CA.

For what its worth, I have good LoRs and a decent PS but I doubt anyone even glanced at those

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Am I actually competitive for Tucom-ca and western? I couldn't argue with going there since it's still a CA med school. I'm just worried I won't be able to get into the residency program I want (what if I was interested in surgery?) if I picked D.O.?

I would focus on these schools because you're honestly not a strong applicant for any MD program as a California resident. Do well in your steps and surgery is possible.

 

[mrh125]

I would focus on these schools because you're honestly not a strong applicant for any MD program as a California resident. Do well in your steps and surgery is possible.

Why does being from ca put me at such a disadvantage in other states?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Why does being from ca put me at such a disadvantage in other states?

Typically out of state students are held to a higher standard at public institutions. Even some private show regional preference.

 

[mrh125]

I had a 3.7/29 from CA and I didn't get a single MD interview. If you're white or ORM, it's not looking too great honestly, especially in this state. You might get lucky if you apply broadly, but who knows.

The good news is that you stand a decent chance at the 2 DO schools in CA so you have that option if you want to stay in CA.

For what its worth, I have good LoRs and a decent PS but I doubt anyone even glanced at those

How many md schools did you apply to? Did you apply to all the ones within range?

 

[Espadaleader]

Dude. California sucks. Is sooo unfair. If you were in NY or TX you be get in somewhere. Hit up the sunys anyway.

 

[NervousNerd]

Dude. California sucks. Is sooo unfair. If you were in NY or TX you be get in somewhere. Hit up the sunys anyway.

Do you think NY residents will have a chance?

I'm 3.8 GPA / 29 MCAT (10-9-10) standard EC's, research, pub, medical job.

 

[Goro]

I'd say you're as good as gold for either CA COMs. Mine too...somewhere west of St Louis.

DO grads can get into any and all specialties. I have plenty of my own grads who have gone into surgery, as well as neurology, ophthalmology, anesthesiology, radiology, orthopedics, cardiology. The Dean of TUCOM-NV is a rheumatologist.

Am I actually competitive for Tucom-ca and western? I couldn't argue with going there since it's still a CA med school. I'm just worried I won't be able to get into the residency program I want (what if I was interested in surgery?) if I picked D.O.?

 

[Espadaleader]

Do you think NY residents will have a chance?

I'm 3.8 GPA / 29 MCAT (10-9-10) standard EC's, research, pub, medical job.

If you're an NY resident you should get in.

 

[Espadaleader]

I'd say you're as good as gold for either CA COMs. Mine too...somewhere west of St Louis.

DO grads can get into any and all specialties. I have plenty of my own grads who have gone into surgery, as well as neurology, ophthalmology, anesthesiology, radiology, orthopedics, cardiology. The Dean of TUCOM-NV is a rheumatologist.

It will be significantly harder to match ACGME fellowships. This is a fact. Yes, you can do AOA residencies and fellowships but if you want to do ACGME training it is best to avoid DO.

If you don't want or don't care then its fine.

 

[mrh125]

Dude. California sucks. Is sooo unfair. If you were in NY or TX you be get in somewhere. Hit up the sunys anyway.

Crazy idea: what if I moved to ny and then applied? Also what schools should I apply to in ny?

 

[JJMrK]

You should retake if you want a good shot at MD schools anywhere, or any shot at CA allo schools.

Study HARD, take as many practice tests as you can, and don't take the real deal again until you're breaking 32 on your practice exams.

 

[mrh125]

You should retake if you want a good shot at MD schools anywhere, or any shot at CA allo schools.

Study HARD, take as many practice tests as you can, and don't take the real deal again until you're breaking 32 on your practice exams.

The thing is I took like every practice exam available before I took the first test. =/ would redoing them actually help me?

 

[kevin2400]

The thing is I took like every practice exam available before I took the first test. =/ would redoing them actually help me?

The second time I studied for the MCAT, I redid all of my practice tests maybe.... like half a year after I first took them? Just make specific questions are not fresh in your memory, cause otherwise then that'd be pretty useless IMO. I thought they were still helpful even though I already took them and scored significantly better than my first time around. Though, I'd say a lot of my improvement came from using different materials besides the practice tests (I studied off Princeton Review the second time vs Berkeley Review).

 

[TreadLightly]

OP, as a sidenote, if you do dec

How many md schools did you apply to? Did you apply to all the ones within range?

I applied 12 md/8 DO I think. I only applied to the md schools that were in my reach and did research using the MSAR to find out which ones were friendly to out of staters.. That narrowed it down but I could have still applied to more + reach schools if I cared but the secondaries were already piling up.

 

[TopTomato]

It will be significantly harder to match ACGME fellowships. This is a fact. Yes, you can do AOA residencies and fellowships but if you want to do ACGME training it is best to avoid DO.

If you don't want or don't care then its fine.

This is somewhat misleading. There is some discrimination against DOs but I wouldn't say "avoid" do because you want to do an ACGME residency. DOs match ACGME all the time. Pull up some DO schools match lists and you'll see matches into Hopkins, Penn, and other good institutions. DO does make it a little harder but not impossible.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

This is somewhat misleading. There is some discrimination against DOs but I wouldn't say "avoid" do because you want to do an ACGME residency. DOs match ACGME all the time. Pull up some DO schools match lists and you'll see matches into Hopkins, Penn, and other good institutions. DO does make it a little harder but not impossible.

Depends on the specialty, but usually as long as you come from an academic ACGME residency, you can definitely attain a good fellowship. I met a DO that did her fellowship at Stanford after residency at UCSF-Fresno.

 

[Espadaleader]

This is somewhat misleading. There is some discrimination against DOs but I wouldn't say "avoid" do because you want to do an ACGME residency. DOs match ACGME all the time. Pull up some DO schools match lists and you'll see matches into Hopkins, Penn, and other good institutions. DO does make it a little harder but not impossible.

I agree with you. It is important to be open about the changes in medicine and how this will impact DOs. Most if not all people consider DOs equal. That's not the point though. The point is that there are barriers set in place that DOs face and must be aware of.

This is strong language from the ACGME.

2016 ACGME common requirements.
https://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PFAssets/ProgramRequirements/CPRs_07012016.pdf

It will be harder, at least for fellowships, if you are coming from an AOA residency.

• These requirements in theory do not apply to DO graduates matching to ACGME residencies
• If you are a DO/ACGME residency graduate these requirements don't apply
• If you are a DO graduate that goes AOA initially that it matters.

So in theory, if you are a DO medical school graduate planning to match ACGME orthopedic surgery, things should not change from now to 2016, but if you are an AOA residency graduate attempting to match orthopedic surgery fellowship, you would be barred from entry, unless yo were an "exceptional candidate".

"All prerequisite post-graduate clinical education required for initial
entry or transfer into ACGME-accredited residency programs must
be completed in ACGME-accredited residency programs, or in
Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC)-
accredited or College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC)-
accredited residency programs located in Canada."

It won't be impossible.

"An ACGME-accredited fellowship program may accept an
exceptionally qualified applicant**, who does not satisfy the
eligibility requirements listed in Sections III.A.2. and III.A.2.a), but
who does meet all of the following additional qualifications and
conditions:"

Bottom line, just know what you want. I know many people that wanted to do osteopathic medicine as a first choice. They applied early assurance to LECOM and are practicing now. Their parents were DOs and thats all they wanted. They never wanted to do or planned to do an ACGME residency. The wanted osteopathic education and training. These students are fine. The second group are the people that want to do osteopathic medicine as a second choice. These people may be disappointed as the road to do allopathic medicine from osteopathic education becomes harder.

I am

Depends on the specialty, but usually as long as you come from an academic ACGME residency, you can definitely attain a good fellowship. I met a DO that did her fellowship at Stanford after residency at UCSF-Fresno.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. If you are a DO and can match into a good ACGME residency, you're golden.

 

[TopTomato]

I agree with you. It is important to be open about the changes in medicine and how this will impact DOs. Most if not all people consider DOs equal. That's not the point though. The point is that there are barriers set in place that DOs face and must be aware of.

This is strong language from the ACGME.

2016 ACGME common requirements.
https://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PFAssets/ProgramRequirements/CPRs_07012016.pdf

It will be harder, at least for fellowships, if you are coming from an AOA residency.

• These requirements in theory do not apply to DO graduates matching to ACGME residencies
• If you are a DO/ACGME residency graduate these requirements don't apply
• If you are a DO graduate that goes AOA initially that it matters.

So in theory, if you are a DO medical school graduate planning to match ACGME orthopedic surgery, things should not change from now to 2016, but if you are an AOA residency graduate attempting to match orthopedic surgery fellowship, you would be barred from entry, unless yo were an "exceptional candidate".

"All prerequisite post-graduate clinical education required for initial
entry or transfer into ACGME-accredited residency programs must
be completed in ACGME-accredited residency programs, or in
Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC)-
accredited or College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC)-
accredited residency programs located in Canada."

It won't be impossible.

"An ACGME-accredited fellowship program may accept an
exceptionally qualified applicant**, who does not satisfy the
eligibility requirements listed in Sections III.A.2. and III.A.2.a), but
who does meet all of the following additional qualifications and
conditions:"

Bottom line, just know what you want. I know many people that wanted to do osteopathic medicine as a first choice. They applied early assurance to LECOM and are practicing now. Their parents were DOs and thats all they wanted. They never wanted to do or planned to do an ACGME residency. The wanted osteopathic education and training. These students are fine. The second group are the people that want to do osteopathic medicine as a second choice. These people may be disappointed as the road to do allopathic medicine from osteopathic education becomes harder.

I am


Yeah, that's pretty much it. If you are a DO and can match into a good ACGME residency, you're golden.

I agree, but with the way GME is right now who knows what the new policy will be by the time I have to worry about matching. In all honesty I believe it'll get better for DOs not worse.

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[Goro]

You should check on NY residency laws before trying this option.

Avg MCAT for SUNY Downstate 33 (a 29 has a <10% chance of being accepted; floor is 30)
Avg MCAT for SUNY Upstate 33 (floor of 28)
Avg MCAT for SUNY Buffalo 33 (floor of 29)
Avg MCAT for Stony Brook 33 (floor of 29)

You can always try the other low tiers (Rosy F, MCW, Creighton, Wake Forest, etc).

Crazy idea: what if I moved to ny and then applied? Also what schools should I apply to in ny?

 

[medschool2016]

I got in a few MDs this cycle with similar stats so it's doable. However, I think you should retake it, or at least study for a April/May test. Reflecting on my season, I think I would have done just a tad bit "better" if I had a 32-33 on the MCAT.

With that said, make sure you apply early and have a super polished personal statement. Good luck!!

 

[Espadaleader]

I agree, but with the way GME is right now who knows what the new policy will be by the time I have to worry about matching. In all honesty I believe it'll get better for DOs not worse.

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Okay, I'll roll with that!

 

[TopTomato]

Okay, I'll roll with that!

Haha it's funny how we were just talking about GME. Both MD and DO residencies just merged today. ACGME is taking over AOA residencies.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...e-medical-education-accreditation-system.aspx

 

[Espadaleader]

You lying!!! Lmao. WOW. I'm laughing so hard right now.

 

[TopTomato]

You lying!!! Lmao. WOW. I'm laughing so hard right now.

Crazy how we both were kinda like "eh let's just see what happens". An hour later the residencies merge lol