3.0 people - problem with LORs, PLEASE HELP!!

[NJDental]

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okay so I thought I was all ready to go for May, besides DAT, I have two LORs from dentists and 1 from my pre-dental advisor, I thought we could sub the pre-dental advisor for science professors but I just learned you can only do that if its a "committee letter" which mine is not.

So I have a 3.0 GPA and basically got a bunch of C+ in my sciences, a few Bs, and As in all the labs....and Ive asked my academic advisor (he taught one of my classes) and two of my science professors and they all said NO! I asked the ones that I went to office hours and paid attention and showed up everyday for lecture...the other professors rarely know me since we had about 150 students in class, and although im going to attempt to shoot them an email asking them to write me a LOR im afraid they're all going to say NO!

So anyways, what did you sub 3.0's do for LORS? Did you have profs that stretched the truth about doing well in class? Did they write you got a C but tried your best?! I never thought this would be that much of a problem! Im so upset about this, I bust my but and because I get C+ im not worthy of a recommendation?

🙁

 

[IdahoDoc]

okay so I thought I was all ready to go for May, besides DAT, I have two LORs from dentists and 1 from my pre-dental advisor, I thought we could sub the pre-dental advisor for science professors but I just learned you can only do that if its a "committee letter" which mine is not.

So I have a 3.0 GPA and basically got a bunch of C+ in my sciences, a few Bs, and As in all the labs....and Ive asked my academic advisor (he taught one of my classes) and two of my science professors and they all said NO! I asked the ones that I went to office hours and paid attention and showed up everyday for lecture...the other professors rarely know me since we had about 150 students in class, and although im going to attempt to shoot them an email asking them to write me a LOR im afraid they're all going to say NO!

So anyways, what did you sub 3.0's do for LORS? Did you have profs that stretched the truth about doing well in class? Did they write you got a C but tried your best?! I never thought this would be that much of a problem! Im so upset about this, I bust my but and because I get C+ im not worthy of a recommendation?

🙁

You might go to their office if at all possible it is a lot harder for them to say no to your face then just reply to an e-mail and say no

 

[206127]

okay so I thought I was all ready to go for May, besides DAT, I have two LORs from dentists and 1 from my pre-dental advisor, I thought we could sub the pre-dental advisor for science professors but I just learned you can only do that if its a "committee letter" which mine is not.

So I have a 3.0 GPA and basically got a bunch of C+ in my sciences, a few Bs, and As in all the labs....and Ive asked my academic advisor (he taught one of my classes) and two of my science professors and they all said NO! I asked the ones that I went to office hours and paid attention and showed up everyday for lecture...the other professors rarely know me since we had about 150 students in class, and although im going to attempt to shoot them an email asking them to write me a LOR im afraid they're all going to say NO!

So anyways, what did you sub 3.0's do for LORS? Did you have profs that stretched the truth about doing well in class? Did they write you got a C but tried your best?! I never thought this would be that much of a problem! Im so upset about this, I bust my but and because I get C+ im not worthy of a recommendation?

🙁

I have many B's and have the about the same amount of C's as I have A's, that's how I got my 3.0. Surely you have at least a few B's in lecture courses, ask them to write one. I didn't bother asking any professors if I got a C in their class. I had the same professor for all 3 physics courses and got a B each quarter, he wrote one for me. I got another one from a chemistry professor (I got an A in that class).

I never went to office hours or anything like that. When I asked for my LORs, I made an appointment with the professor. I had a document prepared that basically was a short Q&A about me (since I didn't really have a close relationship with any professor I felt that this would help them write a better LOR). Keep in mind you will never know what they will write, so when you ask make sure you say "can you write me a STRONG LOR?"

 

[doc toothache]

So anyways, what did you sub 3.0's do for LORS? Did you have profs that stretched the truth about doing well in class? Did they write you got a C but tried your best?! I never thought this would be that much of a problem! Im so upset about this, I bust my but and because I get C+ im not worthy of a recommendation?
🙁

What you mean to say is that you deserve an excellent letter of recommendation even though your performance may, at best, merit a mediocre letter.

 

[NJDental]

You might go to their office if at all possible it is a lot harder for them to say no to your face then just reply to an e-mail and say no

i did, they said no in person 🙁

 

[NJDental]

What you mean to say is that you deserve an excellent letter of recommendation even though your performance may, at best, merit a mediocre letter.

thats exactly what im saying

 

[Ranelar]

I bust my but and because I get C+ im not worthy of a recommendation?

I wouldn't normally respond in this way since I also have a low sGPA and have had my share of C's, but since you asked the question... Yes, because you got a C+ you are not worthy of a recommendation from that professor. How can he recommend you into a health profession if you got such a bad grade in his class (especially when he probably considers his own material to be "easy" and his grading to be "lenient")?

About the main question... yea, show up to their offices in person and it will be harder for them to say no. Also, although your labs were probably given by TA's, didn't they have professors in charge, whether or not you really met them? Maybe try to get in contact with those guys since you got A's in lab. Even if they don't know you, at least they can say you accomplished something.

 

[NJDental]

About the main question... yea, show up to their offices in person and it will be harder for them to say no. Also, although your labs were probably given by TA's, didn't they have professors in charge, whether or not you really met them? Maybe try to get in contact with those guys since you got A's in lab. Even if they don't know you, at least they can say you accomplished something.

ok well im not going to get into it how i really feel about people with high GPAs getting into dental school that dont deserve it and do it for all the wrong reasons, and theres people that are doing OTHER things besides school to make them more well rounded people, or work to pay bills....thank you for your input i do appreciate it, i completely understand how its hard to write a LOR for someone who gets a C in their class, i just hate the system

 

[iJackTeeth]

What you mean to say is that you deserve an excellent letter of recommendation even though your performance may, at best, merit a mediocre letter.

thats exactly what im saying

el oooh el

 

[ashlander]

hey hey calm down.
I don't have excellent grades or anything and still trying to get into dschool in 2010.
However, I got my LORs done and got them done early.
I have had those big classes where you really don't have any chance to get to know your profs.
So I took summer classes where there were about 20 ppl in the class.
Doing that, I got to know profs more in person.
AND I asked them for their letters right after the summer was over.
so..basically I had to WORK HARD to get those letters

It might be because the semester just started the profs are sooooo busy with other stuff. Ask them again later if they are WILLING to write a good LOR for you.
Don't get discouraged!! 😀😀😀

 

[Ranelar]

ok well im not going to get into it how i really feel about people with high GPAs getting into dental school that dont deserve it and do it for all the wrong reasons, and theres people that are doing OTHER things besides school to make them more well rounded people, or work to pay bills....thank you for your input i do appreciate it, i completely understand how its hard to write a LOR for someone who gets a C in their class, i just hate the system

Effort over achievement stopped being relevant back in 6th grade gym class. A patient won't care that you worked really hard on extracting his tooth if you did a C+ job on it. He'd rather go to the guy who will provide the "A" service, even if he knows that guy drives a Porsche and doesn't contribute his time to charity cases.

edit: Also, about having your attention split between school and other things, it probably comes down to your priorities. I did over 40 hours of work and "other stuff" a week while I was in school, and my grades probably suffered from it, but it was a decision I made. If you need money in school, take out loans or get need-based scholarships. If you want to do EC's, make sure they don't interfere with your life goals. Don't complain about the system when a lot of your problems are probably based on your own decisions.

 

[NJDental]

hey hey calm down.
I don't have excellent grades or anything and still trying to get into dschool in 2010.
However, I got my LORs done and got them done early.
I have had those big classes where you really don't have any chance to get to know your profs.
So I took summer classes where there were about 20 ppl in the class.
Doing that, I got to know profs more in person.
AND I asked them for their letters right after the summer was over.
so..basically I had to WORK HARD to get those letters

It might be because the semester just started the profs are sooooo busy with other stuff. Ask them again later if they are WILLING to write a good LOR for you.
Don't get discouraged!! 😀😀😀

thanks 🙂 i am going to ask the prof that taught my summer class that i got a B in (physics), i see him all the time, i just wanted to get one from cell bio or physiology.....but i guess the exact science class doesn't matter.

thank you for helping me wih my original question 😀

 

[NJDental]

Effort over achievement stopped being relevant back in 6th grade gym class. A patient won't care that you worked really hard on extracting his tooth if you did a C+ job on it. He'd rather go to the guy who will provide the "A" service, even if he knows that guy drives a Porsche and doesn't contribute his time to charity cases.

you don't seem to be understanding what im saying, let me spell it out for you:

bookworm that gets all As in science classes =DOES NOT EQUAL= manual dexterity skills

so your basically saying that because of my Cs im not going to be a good dentist? really?

good luck to you, better yet your patients

 

[244903]

Hi NJDental:

I feel your pain. Working while being a full-time student and trying to get the grades is very difficult. I hope you are able to get the LORs you deserve.

If you have any more science classes, I'd advise you to go visit the professor on a weekly basis, if for nothing else but to shoot the breeze. Hopefully the prof isn't too busy and will welcome your conversation. I was fortunate enough to build a rapport with my Ochem and Biochem profs by visiting them often and saying Hi in the hallways. Hope this works for you.

All the best and Good Luck!

 

[Ranelar]

you don't seem to be understanding what im saying, let me spell it out for you:

bookworm that gets all As in science classes =DOES NOT EQUAL= manual dexterity skills

so your basically saying that because of my Cs im not going to be a good dentist? really?

good luck to you, better yet your patients

I'm saying that because of your C's, you show an inability to understand the basic sciences, despite the excruciating effort you claim to put into it.

None of us know if we can properly drill a tooth, place a crown, or do an extraction. Should the system be updated such that everyone gets a shot at it, despite their C's, and then we pick the guys with the best hands? We may as well skip high school and college, and just jump right into Dental Trade School. Pharmacists should just be required to count to 100. Family doctors should just be tested to see if they can look in a person's ear and listen to a heart beat.

I didn't say you won't be a good dentist because you got C's. I got C's. I'm saying that trying to do well simply doesn't count anymore, and that's why your professors said no. I'm saying that you seem to be blaming "the system" for your own inadequacies. I'm saying that we need a basis for comparison between students, and that the biology behind the procedure is important for a dentist to know.

 

[lhtran07]

I'm saying that because of your C's, you show an inability to understand the basic sciences, despite the excruciating effort you claim to put into it.

None of us know if we can properly drill a tooth, place a crown, or do an extraction. Should the system be updated such that everyone gets a shot at it, despite their C's, and then we pick the guys with the best hands? We may as well skip high school and college, and just jump right into Dental Trade School. Pharmacists should just be required to count to 100. Family doctors should just be tested to see if they can look in a person's ear and listen to a heart beat.

I didn't say you won't be a good dentist because you got C's. I got C's. I'm saying that trying to do well simply doesn't count anymore, and that's why your professors said no. I'm saying that you seem to be blaming "the system" for your own inadequacies. I'm saying that we need a basis for comparison between students, and that the biology behind the procedure is important for a dentist to know.

👍

 

[Albuterol]

Hey NJDental,

I had a similar problem as u with lors. Seeing how you probably have 1 more semester left, hopefully u are taking some science classes this semester and u can ace them and get a Letter. While I didn't have the best GPA, I was able to secure 4 letters from science professors by performing well in their class (A and B+). Just make sure you get an A or B+ and they will have a hard time telling you no. However, some professors just don't want to be bothered with writing letters and may say no despite your effort and achievement. Also probably one of the first lines the professor writes is "so and so took this class with me and received a this grade." Obviously a C+ isn't going to impress an adcom. I think by saying no they might be doing u a favor because professors DO WRITE BAD LETTERS and that could sink your application. I hope you are able to get all your letters and wish you good luck!

 

[doc toothache]

Pharmacists should just be required to count to 100.

They should be able to count to at least 101 that way they will not inadvertently dispense an extra dose.

 

[NJDental]

Hey NJDental,

I had a similar problem as u with lors. Seeing how you probably have 1 more semester left, hopefully u are taking some science classes this semester and u can ace them and get a Letter. While I didn't have the best GPA, I was able to secure 4 letters from science professors by performing well in their class (A and B+). Just make sure you get an A or B+ and they will have a hard time telling you no. However, some professors just don't want to be bothered with writing letters and may say no despite your effort and achievement. Also probably one of the first lines the professor writes is "so and so took this class with me and received a this grade." Obviously a C+ isn't going to impress an adcom. I think by saying no they might be doing u a favor because professors DO WRITE BAD LETTERS and that could sink your application. I hope you are able to get all your letters and wish you good luck!

thanks! im taking microbiology and immunology right now and doing well so far (have As in both but only have one grade for each) - i am definitely planning on asking these two professors for LORs if i contintue to do well - thanks everyone for the support it looks like it will all work out - i guess i was just frustrated earlier! 😉

 

[NJDental]

I'm saying that because of your C's, you show an inability to understand the basic sciences, despite the excruciating effort you claim to put into it.

None of us know if we can properly drill a tooth, place a crown, or do an extraction. Should the system be updated such that everyone gets a shot at it, despite their C's, and then we pick the guys with the best hands? We may as well skip high school and college, and just jump right into Dental Trade School. Pharmacists should just be required to count to 100.Family doctors should just be tested to see if they can look in a person's ear and listen to a heart beat.

I didn't say you won't be a good dentist because you got C's. I got C's. I'm saying that trying to do well simply doesn't count anymore, and that's why your professors said no. I'm saying that you seem to be blaming "the system" for your own inadequacies. I'm saying that we need a basis for comparison between students, and that the biology behind the procedure is important for a dentist to know.

I see that you seem to be jumping to some conclusions, kid. For your information, I never claimed to put "excruciating" effort into it - I did try hard but I also was involved in tons of schoolwork and I work two jobs. I don't have a daddy as a dentist and I wasn't born with privileges, I actually have to work for them.

No I don't have A+ in all my sciences but does that mean I'm not well rounded in the sciences? No. I was originally asking some people who are like me how they obtained LORs when they didn't get As in upper level bio classes, so lets stick to that shall we.

 

[Ranelar]

I see that you seem to be jumping to some conclusions, kid. For your information, I never claimed to put "excruciating" effort into it - I did try hard but I also was involved in tons of schoolwork and I work two jobs. I don't have a daddy as a dentist and I wasn't born with privileges, I actually have to work for them.

No I don't have A+ in all my sciences but does that mean I'm not well rounded in the sciences? No. I was originally asking some people who are like me how they obtained LORs when they didn't get As in upper level bio classes, so lets stick to that shall we.

I'm 4 years your senior, "kid".

You said you "bust [your] but". In my book, a busted butt is excruciating.

Most people applying to dental school were involved in more than just school as well.

Just as A's don't equal a good dentist, "Daddy as a dentist" does not equal privileged. I'll stop myself from comparing sob stories. Suffice to say, I also worked for my accomplishments, and I have a lot of debt to pay off, but thanks for the personal attacks.

 

[206127]

thanks! im taking microbiology and immunology right now and doing well so far (have As in both but only have one grade for each) - i am definitely planning on asking these two professors for LORs if i contintue to do well - thanks everyone for the support it looks like it will all work out - i guess i was just frustrated earlier! 😉

I would talk to those professors about it now, they will notice you more and hopefully that will help them to write a strong letter.

A peice of advice...
Most people on SDN have high gpa's. These people have no idea what it's like to apply with a low gpa. They will say things that make you fell like $hit, and other people with high gpa's will back em up. I suggest ignoring those posts... they are never constructive...

Good luck!

 

[Daydream46]

okay so I thought I was all ready to go for May, besides DAT, I have two LORs from dentists and 1 from my pre-dental advisor, I thought we could sub the pre-dental advisor for science professors but I just learned you can only do that if its a "committee letter" which mine is not.

So I have a 3.0 GPA and basically got a bunch of C+ in my sciences, a few Bs, and As in all the labs....and Ive asked my academic advisor (he taught one of my classes) and two of my science professors and they all said NO! I asked the ones that I went to office hours and paid attention and showed up everyday for lecture...the other professors rarely know me since we had about 150 students in class, and although im going to attempt to shoot them an email asking them to write me a LOR im afraid they're all going to say NO!

So anyways, what did you sub 3.0's do for LORS? Did you have profs that stretched the truth about doing well in class? Did they write you got a C but tried your best?! I never thought this would be that much of a problem! Im so upset about this, I bust my but and because I get C+ im not worthy of a recommendation?

🙁

Hello fellow RUer. Who wouldnt write you a LORl! Argh!!! You can shoot me a PM if you want... I had my 1. bio TA write me one 2. Genetics teacher, who is now like the director of bio 3. Ceramics teacher 4. My ecology teacher 5. my animal behavior teacher 6. Then the comm. eval (and they picked which to send)

RU really kinna screws you over when it comes to the grading scale, so watch out for that!

 

[Daydream46]

thanks! im taking microbiology and immunology right now and doing well so far (have As in both but only have one grade for each) - i am definitely planning on asking these two professors for LORs if i contintue to do well - thanks everyone for the support it looks like it will all work out - i guess i was just frustrated earlier! 😉

Ask them now.. or let them know you will be asking.... so they can keep an eye on you and know your name... teachers hate when you ask them at the end of class...


Also, lets not forget we will be Dr.s... and as patients we should be happy that our doctors and dentist are held to such high standards. An artist may be a wonderful sculptor but is not qualified to be a dentist. Science knowledge and anatomy are very important in our jobs... we will not just be robots drilling and filling, there are diagnosis and treatment that needs to be done as well.

Now I know how you feel, Ive been there... but sometimes the people who put in the hard work for 4 years really do deserve it more... and if not you need to prove why you do in your application and personal statement.

Once you get in you will feel so good, and be happy you are among the elite 😉

 

[peterngu]

okay so I thought I was all ready to go for May, besides DAT, I have two LORs from dentists and 1 from my pre-dental advisor, I thought we could sub the pre-dental advisor for science professors but I just learned you can only do that if its a "committee letter" which mine is not.

So I have a 3.0 GPA and basically got a bunch of C+ in my sciences, a few Bs, and As in all the labs....and Ive asked my academic advisor (he taught one of my classes) and two of my science professors and they all said NO! I asked the ones that I went to office hours and paid attention and showed up everyday for lecture...the other professors rarely know me since we had about 150 students in class, and although im going to attempt to shoot them an email asking them to write me a LOR im afraid they're all going to say NO!

So anyways, what did you sub 3.0's do for LORS? Did you have profs that stretched the truth about doing well in class? Did they write you got a C but tried your best?! I never thought this would be that much of a problem! Im so upset about this, I bust my but and because I get C+ im not worthy of a recommendation?

🙁

I think it's pretty unconventional to ask for letters of rec without at least a B. Asking a professor to stretch the truth about how well you did, even though you turn in official applications for grade verification, will make for an awkward moment during the meeting. Even if you did get a letter for the classes you got C's in, I can't imagine them helping your case for academic capacity. It's like shooting for the bare minimum on your application when 10,000 other people are "busting their butts" to outdo the next person. There is some good advice about taking the smaller upper division science classes that are drastically reduced in class size. The professors in those classes (from my experience) aren't looking to weed out the weaker students and will be more than happy to engage in conversation about the class, yourself, and your goals, which will lead to a strong letter of rec.

Also, I resent that "bookworm" comment. You seem to be implying that students that get A's in class are priviledged, under-deserving, and lazy. Most of these "bookworms" make it into the schools you're trying moderately hard to get into for a reason.

 

[NJDental]

I would talk to those professors about it now, they will notice you more and hopefully that will help them to write a strong letter.

A peice of advice...
Most people on SDN have high gpa's. These people have no idea what it's like to apply with a low gpa. They will say things that make you fell like $hit, and other people with high gpa's will back em up. I suggest ignoring those posts... they are never constructive...

Good luck!

thanks! im going to mention to them very soon, i dont want to bug them at the end and rush them!

 

[NJDental]

I think it's pretty unconventional to ask for letters of rec without at least a B. Asking a professor to stretch the truth about how well you did, even though you turn in official applications for grade verification, will make for an awkward moment during the meeting. Even if you did get a letter for the classes you got C's in, I can't imagine them helping your case for academic capacity. It's like shooting for the bare minimum on your application when 10,000 other people are "busting their butts" to outdo the next person. There is some good advice about taking the smaller upper division science classes that are drastically reduced in class size. The professors in those classes (from my experience) aren't looking to weed out the weaker students and will be more than happy to engage in conversation about the class, yourself, and your goals, which will lead to a strong letter of rec.

Also, I resent that "bookworm" comment. You seem to be implying that students that get A's in class are priviledged, under-deserving, and lazy. Most of these "bookworms" make it into the schools you're trying moderately hard to get into for a reason.

I understand your point, it puts the professor in an awkward situation when theyre supposed to write me a LOR for a class I got a C in, it sucks, I should have done better, but I tried. I was just going nuts thinking of what I can do to get good LORs since the 3 I have aren't enough.

And I guess I was unclear, I am not at all trying to get a prof to "stretch the truth" for a LOR - I was simply asking people with my stats how they got good LORs in their hands, thats all, just curios. I don't need a prof to stretch the truth for me, ill get the LORs from the sciences I got Bs or As in

And I also apologize for the bookworm comment - again I was unclear I was trying to show the kid that posted above that he was generalizing so I did the same and I don't believe that just because you have a 4.0 in a class doesn't mean youll make a great dentist, but I am very envious of people with 4.0s and I know they did work hard for their grades and some do make great dentists so props to them

 

[peterngu]

And I also apologize for the bookworm comment

Much appreciated, and good luck!

 

[chober]

Funny thing since I've came back to school I've REALLY struggled in Ochem & Ochem lab, and they are the only classes that I got anything below an A- in. However, that professor was one of my strongest supporters and wrote me a great LOR.

 

[lhtran07]

I did research with the professors that wrote my LORs. You spend a lot of one-on-one time with them and they really get to know you and your work ethic during that time. Also, upper class science courses have fewer students, so if you're taking one of those classes that also includes a lab portion...you'll be spending a lot of time with that professor so get to know them and build up a relationship.

 

[NJDental]

Much appreciated, and good luck!

your welcome! thanks 🙂