3.2c, 3.12s 11P/12V/12B 35 MCAT... chances?

[istherehope]

done

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[411309]

Whats your state of residency?

 

[istherehope]

Whats your state of residency?

I'm from NH.

 

[411309]

Isnt there only one MD school in NH? Dartmouth? Your lizym score is a 66, the average matriculant for their md school is a 72 so you are a bit off from that. You could try some OOS MD schools. Your gpa is going to hurt you a ton for MD but it's possible you can get in somewhere.

For DO. you can get into almost any school you want im sure with that mcat.

 

[istherehope]

Yes, Dartmouth is the only MD school, and I know it's unrealistic. Will being from NH score me any points with Boston schools?

 

[Catalystik]

As the title says, I have a 3.2 overall and 3.12 science GPA and will be graduating this summer with a BS in Molecular Genetics from a Big 10 school. I got good grades as a freshman, bad grades as a sophomore, terrible grades as a junior, and good grades as a senior. My MCAT scores were 11P/12V/12B for a 35 overall on the MCAT.

I have 2+ years of cancer genetics research with a couple of poster presentations, have done a fair amount of shadowing (DO and MD), was the treasurer for two different student organizations, was a resident advisor for 2 years, worked full-time for two summers planning my schools sports camps, worked full-time UPS during breaks, played year-round intramural sports, and was the publicity chair for a unique service-based musical theatre student organization in which I performed in three musicals and did many hours of community service.

During my gap year, I will likely be working under the director or nephrology at my university's med center in a lab studying lupus nephritis as well as working as an antomy TA.

All that being said, should I spend the time/money required to apply to lower-tier MD schools, or just put all my eggs in the DO basket? And how likely am I to get accepted to most DO schools? I know my MCAT score is very strong for DO, but I'm afraid my low GPA will really hurt.

Thanks for reading!

What upper-level Bio and Biochem did you take senior year and what grades did you earn?

I see you feel your shadowing is strong; how many hours do you have? What is your clinical experience where you interacted with patients rather than observed?

 

[istherehope]

A in Cell Bio
A- in Biochem lab
A in Biochem
A- in grad level Human Genetics
A in Neurobio
B in Embryology

My shadowing isn't overly impressive. I've probably amassed around 150 hours total spanning cardiology, nephrology, urology, and reproductive endocrinology.

The clinical experience I have has been through the musical theatre organization. We visit local hospitals every month to sing to the pediatric oncology patients. I also worked as a receptionist at an infertility clinic in high school, but I don't know if that's something worth mentioning.

 

[Catalystik]

Those grades look mighty fine to me, and IMO, might give you a shot at some MD schools. It would help if one of your Secondary essays addressed the reason for the GPA dive before senior year. A 3.2/35 gave past applicants a 50% chance of an MD acceptance. I think that's worth working toward, considering the comprehensive and interesting ECs (except I'm not sure about the clinical experience yet).

Having 150 shadowing hours is well above the average of 50. Were you actively assisting or engaging patients personally during any of that so it could be split out and included with clinical experience?

Did you mainly sing to the patients, or did you engage them in some way, talk or play with them, ask for requests, etc, in a one-on-one basis? Any patient interaction during the research gig?

I would include the HS age infertility clinic work in the PS in detail.

 

[istherehope]

The shadowing was all strictly observation. The singing, however, was very interactive. We would perform a couple of group numbers, then split off and talk to/play with small groups of kids. I always had my guitar, so kids would frequently request songs for my friends and I to improvise. It was a ton of fun and extremely rewarding.

 

[Catalystik]

How many months or years did you engage in the peds ward activity? How long did you stay each time you visited?

 

[istherehope]

I did it once every month (September-May) for three school years. Each visit lasted 2-3 hours.

 

[Catalystik]

I think you're good to go, then.

Any thoughts on potential MD schools to target?

 

[istherehope]

Thank you so much for all of your advice. Just based on the schools' locations and my stats, I'm considering applying applying to the following MD schools:

Florida State University CoM
Brody SoM at East Carolina University
University of South Carolina SoM
Virginia Commonwealth SoM
Eastern Virginia MS
West Virginia University SoM

I would also consider applying to Boston University, Ohio State, and Wake Forest, even though I know those are all reaches. Any advice on narrowing down this list, or should I keep it as broad as I can?

 

[235788]

You're a perfect MD SMP candidate.

 

[Catalystik]

Thank you so much for all of your advice. Just based on the schools' locations and my stats, I'm considering applying applying to the following MD schools:

Florida State University CoM
Brody SoM at East Carolina University
University of South Carolina SoM
Virginia Commonwealth SoM
Eastern Virginia MS
West Virginia University SoM

I would also consider applying to Boston University, Ohio State, and Wake Forest, even though I know those are all reaches. Any advice on narrowing down this list, or should I keep it as broad as I can?

You need to do research with an MSAR and check the OOS acceptance figures and regional bias for those schools. EVMS and Virginia Commonwealth are fine from the upper list. Wake is fine. A few reaches are OK too.

Also consider:

Toledo, Creighton (no CC credit for prereqs), Nebraska, LSU-NO, NYMC, Vermont, Hofstra (newer)
Wayne (mainly looks at the last 30 credit hours), Wright, Drexel, FAU (new), Tulane, MSU (high OOS tuition), Oakland (newer in MI), Penn State (requires a research thesis), Commonwealth in Pa (seeks to train rural NE PA docs), Arizona X 2,
Louisville, UIllinois (high OOS tuition), Buffalo,
RFU, Cooper (new)

 

[istherehope]

You're a perfect MD SMP candidate.

I considered an SMP, but then I realized I don't want to be an MD; I want to be a physician. I would much rather take the DO route and face a few more obstacles along the way than start practicing an extra year later.

Catalystik, thank you so much for the recommendations. I will look into all of them. I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciate all the help you've given me.

 

[Shalashaska]

Thank you so much for all of your advice. Just based on the schools' locations and my stats, I'm considering applying applying to the following MD schools:

Florida State University CoM
Brody SoM at East Carolina University
University of South Carolina SoM
Virginia Commonwealth SoM
Eastern Virginia MS
West Virginia University SoM

I would also consider applying to Boston University, Ohio State, and Wake Forest, even though I know those are all reaches. Any advice on narrowing down this list, or should I keep it as broad as I can?

You said your state of residence is NH? Please don't apply to FSUCOM. They accept 98-99% of students in-state. So yeah, make sure to review the MSAR along with LizzyM's spreadsheet.

 

[istherehope]

You said your state of residence is NH? Please don't apply to FSUCOM. They accept 98-99% of students in-state. So yeah, make sure to review the MSAR along with LizzyM's spreadsheet.

Thanks for letting me know. I'm definitely going to do a lot more research before June. Before I made this post, I had pretty much resigned myself to only applying DO. I now have a lot of other options to look into.

 

[LaughingMan]

You need to do research with an MSAR and check the OOS acceptance figures and regional bias for those schools. EVMS and Virginia Commonwealth are fine from the upper list. Wake is fine. A few reaches are OK too.

Also consider:

Toledo, Creighton (no CC credit for prereqs), Nebraska, LSU-NO, NYMC, Vermont, Hofstra (newer)
Wayne (mainly looks at the last 30 credit hours), Wright, Drexel, FAU (new), Tulane, MSU (high OOS tuition), Oakland (newer in MI), Penn State (requires a research thesis), Commonwealth in Pa (seeks to train rural NE PA docs), Arizona X 2,
Louisville, UIllinois (high OOS tuition), Buffalo,
RFU, Cooper (new)

Hey Cat--might I ask where you are obtaining the no CC credit for Creighton? A quick glance at their website and I found this:

"The minimum educational requirement for admission to the School of Medicine is completion of 90 semester hours of college credit exclusive of credits from the following areas: military science, physical education, and similar courses. All requirements should be completed by June 1 of the entrance year. (The Office of Medical Admissions encourages students to complete all academic requirements prior to sitting for the MCAT.) In addition, all requirements must be completed at an accredited college or university located within the United States or Canada."

Thanks!

 

[DanGee777]

Isnt there only one MD school in NH? Dartmouth? Your lizym score is a 66, the average matriculant for their md school is a 72 so you are a bit off from that. You could try some OOS MD schools. Your gpa is going to hurt you a ton for MD but it's possible you can get in somewhere.

For DO. you can get into almost any school you want im sure with that mcat.

I thought LizzyM score is (GPA * 10) + MCAT. Wouldn't hers be 67? 3.2 times 10 then add the 35. I know that spreadsheet passed around on here subtracts one from
That total to get the LizzyM score but the school averages don't, so it's kinda
Weird.

 

[DanGee777]

Hey Cat--might I ask where you are obtaining the no CC credit for Creighton? A quick glance at their website and I found this:

"The minimum educational requirement for admission to the School of Medicine is completion of 90 semester hours of college credit exclusive of credits from the following areas: military science, physical education, and similar courses. All requirements should be completed by June 1 of the entrance year. (The Office of Medical Admissions encourages students to complete all academic requirements prior to sitting for the MCAT.) In addition, all requirements must be completed at an accredited college or university located within the United States or Canada."

Thanks!

Keep reading on the same page...

"College studies prior to admission to the School of Meicine should include subjects appropriate to a liberal arts education.* These subjects*must be*taken within the framework of a Bachelor’s degree program at an accredited institution located within the United States or Canada. The following courses are required for admission and are considered essential for the successful pursuit of the medical curriculum at Creighton University as well as preparation for the MCAT."

Now admittedly the wording is ambiguous. They say subjects part of a lib arts education must be taken at a 4 yr school. I think they also mean prerequisites, however. Still, call and check if you want, and report back to us. I took my gen chem at my community college so I've scratched Creighton from my prospective schools list. Seems odd because I took my ochem at a 4 yr school, but hey, if it's their policy then so be it.

 

[Catalystik]

Hey Cat--might I ask where you are obtaining the no CC credit for Creighton? A quick glance at their website and I found this:

"The minimum educational requirement for admission to the School of Medicine is completion of 90 semester hours of college credit exclusive of credits from the following areas: military science, physical education, and similar courses. All requirements should be completed by June 1 of the entrance year. (The Office of Medical Admissions encourages students to complete all academic requirements prior to sitting for the MCAT.) In addition, all requirements must be completed at an accredited college or university located within the United States or Canada."

Keep reading on the same page...

"College studies prior to admission to the School of Meicine should include subjects appropriate to a liberal arts education.* These subjects*must be*taken within the framework of a Bachelor’s degree program at an accredited institution located within the United States or Canada. The following courses are required for admission and are considered essential for the successful pursuit of the medical curriculum at Creighton University as well as preparation for the MCAT."

Now admittedly the wording is ambiguous. They say subjects part of a lib arts education must be taken at a 4 yr school. I think they also mean prerequisites, however. Still, call and check if you want, and report back to us. I took my gen chem at my community college so I've scratched Creighton from my prospective schools list. Seems odd because I took my ochem at a 4 yr school, but hey, if it's their policy then so be it.

I don't claim to have a perfect memory, but it seems to me the wording has changed and I appreciate your calling attention to that. I would hope their intent is not to ban all CC credits, but it could be interpreted that way. If you call to clarify this, please let us know.

 

[Catalystik]

I thought LizzyM score is (GPA * 10) + MCAT. Wouldn't hers be 67? 3.2 times 10 then add the 35. I know that spreadsheet passed around on here subtracts one from
That total to get the LizzyM score but the school averages don't, so it's kinda
Weird.

If you compare medians to averages, they tend to be a point higher thus the adjustment or lack thereof.

 

[LizzyM]

I thought LizzyM score is (GPA * 10) + MCAT. Wouldn't hers be 67? 3.2 times 10 then add the 35. I know that spreadsheet passed around on here subtracts one from
That total to get the LizzyM score but the school averages don't, so it's kinda
Weird.

When I first came up with this formula, I suggested that applicants compare their LizzyM score to the school's average* gpa(10)+average MCAT - 1 thus applying to schools where their combined gpa & MCAT was equal to or just a little bit below the school's average. This was meant as a way of identifying schools where the applicant would have a shot at an interview. It seems to me that it has become more difficult to get an interview, or that grades have become a larger factor in med school interview decisions and I'd suggest adding one to a schools average if you want a more conservative measure of where you should direct your applications.


*average being mean or median

 

[DanGee777]

If you compare medians to averages, they tend to be a point higher thus the adjustment or lack thereof.

Gotcha. So what you're saying is if an applicant wants to really be in range for a given
school, she should look at schools in which her MCAT + (GPA*10) is 1 pt greater than the listing? Just to clarify.

 

[DanGee777]

When I first came up with this formula, I suggested that applicants compare their LizzyM score to the school's average* gpa(10)+average MCAT - 1 thus applying to schools where their combined gpa & MCAT was equal to or just a little bit below the school's average. This was meant as a way of identifying schools where the applicant would have a shot at an interview. It seems to me that it has become more difficult to get an interview, or that grades have become a larger factor in med school interview decisions and I'd suggest adding one to a schools average if you want a more conservative measure of where you should direct your applications.


*average being mean or median

Argh. So looking at that spreadsheet, if a school is listed at, say, 68, then I should consider it a 69 for this upcoming cycle?

Thanks LizzyM.

 

[MedBound1]

Thank you so much for all of your advice. Just based on the schools' locations and my stats, I'm considering applying applying to the following MD schools:

Florida State University CoM
Brody SoM at East Carolina University
University of South Carolina SoM
Virginia Commonwealth SoM
Eastern Virginia MS
West Virginia University SoM

I would also consider applying to Boston University, Ohio State, and Wake Forest, even though I know those are all reaches. Any advice on narrowing down this list, or should I keep it as broad as I can?

As Cat said, you definitely need to review the OOS acceptance percentages for the schools you plan to apply to..

FSU and Brody both take about 99-100% of applicants from In-State, you have no chance at being accepted to these as a NH resident.

 

[Catalystik]

So what you're saying is if an applicant wants to really be in range for a given
school, she should look at schools in which her MCAT + (GPA*10) is 1 pt greater than the listing? Just to clarify.

To get more picky: Since acceptee stats include a lot of applicants that won't go to that school. I suggest that if you are comparing your Lizzy M score to a school's median acceptee stats (from the MSAR) that you add +1 to your own number. If you are comparing to a school's average matriculant stats (from a school's website or USNews) then you don't add an adjustment factor. If you want to be conservative, as Lizzy M suggests, your personal score should be higher than the school's (as you have stated).

 

[istherehope]

Thanks so much for your help, everyone. I definitely have a lot of research to do. I have two more questions I'm hoping you guys can help me out with:

(1) I need one more LOR from a science professor. The only professor (besides my PI) with whom I've developed a relationship, I got a B in his class. I'm in class until June 10, so how can I go about getting one of my current teachers to write me a letter in such a short amount of time? Or would I be better off going with the B professor?

(2) Everyone is telling me to apply as early as possible, but my final grades for this quarter won't be in until June 8. I anticipate a 4.0 this quarter, so I would really like that to appear on my application. Would I be better off applying June 1 without my final quarter grades, or waiting an extra 8 days to show adcoms I finished my undergraduate career strongly?

 

[Keepitclassy]

I'd suggest waiting for your final grades to clear. Due to your sub-par cGPA the pro's of having your upward trend solidified far outweighs the con's of submitting your AMCAS a week late.

 

[Catalystik]

(1) I need one more LOR from a science professor. The only professor (besides my PI) with whom I've developed a relationship, I got a B in his class. I'm in class until June 10, so how can I go about getting one of my current teachers to write me a letter in such a short amount of time? Or would I be better off going with the B professor?

(2) Everyone is telling me to apply as early as possible, but my final grades for this quarter won't be in until June 8. I anticipate a 4.0 this quarter, so I would really like that to appear on my application. Would I be better off applying June 1 without my final quarter grades, or waiting an extra 8 days to show adcoms I finished my undergraduate career strongly?

1) LORs don't need to be submitted as early as the rest of the application. If you might get a science A over the summer, cultivate the teacher in case a great LOR might be in the offing. But just in case, why not get the B professor's letter in the bag now.

2) I agree with Keepitclassy.