3+3 CT surgery programs

[turk00]

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I know there was a previous post about this awhile ago, but I was wondering if there were any updates concerning the 3+3 programs for cardiothoracic surgery. Any new pilot programs? I was on JHU's website and noticed they have a cardiac track for 2 of their 8 gen surg residents, however this is a 9 year program with 1.5 years devoted to research.

 

[Vukken99]

I dont think the 3+3 CT programs exists.

people should really understand the dynamics behind the CT residency and later work opportunities...

CTs dont want competition in general.
To be able to be approve for CT capable like open heart centers you need special approval from the government so with few centers approved to get your foot into one of those places is a very tough thing indeed.

Why would CTs want shorter residency training which will saturate the market.

 

[Vukken99]

it is a great priviledge to open someones' chest and do surgery on their heart.

With great advances in heart failure surgery with LVAD and others.

I really do think someone who is serious enough should put their time like good 8 years to be a CT surgeon. No easy way out on this.

I would not want someone with shorter training to open me up really.

Would you.. So learn to change your perspective and attitute towards this field if you want to become a CT surgeon.

 

[trauma_junky]

it is a great priviledge to open someones' chest and do surgery on their heart.

With great advances in heart failure surgery with LVAD and others.

I really do think someone who is serious enough should put their time like good 8 years to be a CT surgeon. No easy way out on this.

I would not want someone with shorter training to open me up really.

Would you.. So learn to change your perspective and attitute towards this field if you want to become a CT surgeon.

Has any of you worked with the Debakey MicroMed VAD? VAD

 

[turk00]

it is a great priviledge to open someones' chest and do surgery on their heart.

With great advances in heart failure surgery with LVAD and others.

I really do think someone who is serious enough should put their time like good 8 years to be a CT surgeon. No easy way out on this.

I would not want someone with shorter training to open me up really.

Would you.. So learn to change your perspective and attitute towards this field if you want to become a CT surgeon.

The ABS has been weighing these programs as an option for CT training for a couple of years now. More than likely, several pilot programs will be offered in the upcoming years. So, maybe instead of following the crowd you should stop being naive and understand that change is part of medical education. If 3 years of gen surg training and 3 years of cardiac training is deemed sufficient by a panel of doctors who are a lot more credible and established than you, I would rather take their word for it.

 

[turk00]

Canadian CT training is 6 years and they have definitely produced excellent surgeons in the field. I don't think we can necessarily correlate years of training with quality of training; the latter being more important.

 

[aboo-ali-sina]

I know there was a previous post about this awhile ago, but I was wondering if there were any updates concerning the 3+3 programs for cardiothoracic surgery. Any new pilot programs? I was on JHU's website and noticed they have a cardiac track for 2 of their 8 gen surg residents, however this is a 9 year program with 1.5 years devoted to research.

JHU's website is outdated. they no longer have the CT track. they are working on making another one under the new ABTS and ABS guidlines but they do not have one yet.

 

[phillymed]

I do understand the point of view the necessity of the long training perriod.
However, it is possible to do a 5 year GS and find a 2 year fellowship in thoracic and be done in seven. The whole medical system is stream lining, so I dont think 6 or 7 years with an earlier focus seems unrreasonable.

Many other specialties take care of very sick patients and need to be well trained as well as on the ball (vasc surg, CC (all forms of it), trauma surg, cardiology, etc etc) and they take about 7 years to come to fruition.

 

[Vukken99]

talk to few guys in the field who are working if they agree with 6 year programs.

It is all about market saturation they fear.

Lot of CTs are not having easy time getting jobs so.....

Why do you think they will do 6 year programs.

Now let's not compare Canada or any other country with the U.S.

Just take a look at the CT online textbook on the amount of material you have to master...You need enough training to do CT....

No short cuts here....

 

[Leukocyte]

Neurosurgeons can complete residency in 6 years (+1 year of lab).

And the skull/brain anatomy/sx is MUCH MUCH MORE complicated than chest anatomy/sx.

If you cut a wrong part of the brain, you cannot suture it back .

 

[Vukken99]

we all know the there is poor outcome with many neurosurgical procedures.

I dont' think that is fair to compare brain surgeons with CT surgeons.

This is something I was thinking before.
It is issue of what you are ready to contribuite and what your interests are.

I find Trauma Neurosurgery very mechanical...not real intelligence.

But revascularization procedures in cardiac surgery has been sort of boring too.

But, the great thing is heart failure surgery LVAD implantation....you can really buy time with LVAD bridge ot heart transplantation...

 

[droliver]

I saw this in the Summer Amer. College of Surgeons bulletin I got in the mail today. It looks like the compromise the ABS & CTVS boards are working out for the future CTVS training regimine is still going to be seven years rather then 6 years.

"ABTS Agrees to Joint Training
The American Board of Thoracic
Surgery (ABTS) has agreed to establish a
joint training program with the ABS in
general and thoracic surgery by which residents
would be eligible for certification by
both boards. The joint training program
would entail a combined residency of seven
years at the same institution with two middle
years involving rotations on both thoracic
and general surgery services.
Participants would have to meet all ABS
and ABTS requirements for certification. A
proposal for the joint program was
approved at the ABS board meeting in June
and will now be presented to the ABMS for
approval. It is expected that specific
requirements will be developed by the
Residency Review Committees in Surgery
and Thoracic Surgery by spring 2005.
Surgery Residency Curriculum
Part of of the June 2004 ABS board
meeting was devoted to examining the
issue of developing a national curriculum
for surgery residencies. Dr. Jeffrey Gold of
the Thoracic Surgery Program Directors
Association presented how his organization
developed and implemented a common
curriculum in thoracic surgery."