3.47 cGPA, 520 MCAT- Help with school list

[Crayola227]

I would be happy doing primary care from an MD school. It's just that since childhood I've wanted those initials on a white coat, whether or not it's a rational desire. I know that it may not be realistic but to me this represents the end of a dream. I don't think it's unreasonable to feel sad about that.
Also, my parents have discouraged me from applying DO and from taking a gap year, which puts me in a bind since that's pretty much a catch 22. They believe my MCAT score doesn't warrant a gap year. If it were entirely up to me I'd try to raise my gpa to a 3.6 this year and apply MD only next year.

What I don't understand is why you are focussing on those initials, and not the "Dr." ones that will also be embroidered there??? This is a case of glass half full and you're looking at it half empty.

Try focusing on how 100+ times a day you'll be addressed as Dr. Baratheon. The last initials don't come up nearly as often, nor do they really matter (in the case of MD/DO. Let's not talk about doctor nurses here).

Unless your parents are adcoms somewhere, if their advice isn't matching up with general consensus for what's best for your career from SDN, or what YOU think best, I would say they can stuff it.

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[PossibleDOC?]

What I don't understand is why you are focussing on those initials, and not the "Dr." ones that will also be embroidered there??? This is a case of glass half full and you're looking at it half empty.

Try focusing on how 100+ times a day you'll be addressed as Dr. Baratheon. The last initials don't come up nearly as often, nor do they really matter (in the case of MD/DO. Let's not talk about doctor nurses here).

Unless your parents are adcoms somewhere, if their advice isn't matching up with general consensus for what's best for your career from SDN, or what YOU think best, I would say they can stuff it.

I fear for the future generations.....parents run their lives its sad really, they will help him make a huge mistake but hopefully I'm wrong

 

[Crayola227]

Guys, there are very valid reasons why people choose to pursue MD over DO. No i will not say what they are because i already expressed my views on the matter several times before and i don't want this thread to be a DO-bashing thread.

If OP doesn't want to apply DO this cycle, do not force him. Do not recommend or advise OP to apply DO. Let him go MD-only and plan accordingly.

This is why i said i think the state schools are OP's safety schools here regardless of the odds calculation.

Lawper, I agree, but I think it depends on what the person says they want and what reasons they have for not pursuing it, plus their app all around.

I am giving this person flak because they say that at the end of the day, what they *really* want is to be a doctor and treat people, including being open to primary care. If that is really someone's number one goal, and what's holding them back is just bias, then we would be remiss to tell them not to forget bias, prestige, and go DO.

I have made it a point on this board to challenge DO biases.

Also, to challenge any thinking on an applicant's part related to pursuing medicine for prestige.
Yes, there is some prestige that comes with being a doctor and we all enjoy it.

Given the enormous downsides in medicine, it is a rare corner of medicine and the rare personality type that finds enough prestige to sustain their satisfaction, if that was a major factor. Whatever physician specialty satisfaction things I read, most of the time prestige of the field ranks pretty low in the scheme of what they rank for why they like/would pick their specialty again. It matters more to the uninitiated than to the initiated, and since the goal of everyone on SDN is to go from uninitiated --> initiated, I don't see any reason not to fill them in.

Anyway, OP can do as they like. Certainly there are reasons not to go MD OR DO. Or even to go at all.

The truth is, nothing is impossible, but you have less power in the pathway than you think you do. Could you go to a top DO school that has residency feeder programs for the very specialty you want? Could you go to a totally crap MD school that you can't match well? Could you go to a school of high repute and then do poorly because the teachers suck? Or, the style is just off for you? Or maybe you just get sick? The culture of the school might matter more than the name in getting you from A to B. And you need to be realistic about your goals.

All that said, you should attend medical school where you can get an acceptance.

 

[sharpstickie]

But not enough to withdraw?

Hope is dangerous

 

[happyfit]

.

 

[Astra]

This is my analysis:

Apply to MD and DO. If you don't get into any MD this cycle, you will atleast get into DO.

If you did a MD cycle only and reapplied next year, what would change on your application?

Ask yourself this and you can make a decision.

If you can improve an aspect of your application significantly ( Research, volunteering, etc.) then reapplying as to MD might be good.

Otherwise, you will probably get the same results.

Also, ignore all outside influences pushing you to do certain things. Look at the stats on MSAR, advice on this thread. Your parents might mean well but they don't know much compared to the people on here.

Your GPA is not ridiculously low, but it is low.

Your MCAT is ridiculously high.

So you have an average application that should get you into some MD school.

The only concern is if schools auto screen out people below a certain GPA. If so, you might not get into MD.

@baratheonfire

 

[baratheonfire]

.

 

[starspells]

I didn't realize you only finished your sophomore year. I think it would be in your best interests to apply after junior year.

 

[baratheonfire]

This is my analysis:

Apply to MD and DO. If you don't get into any MD this cycle, you will atleast get into DO.

If you did a MD cycle only and reapplied next year, what would change on your application?

Ask yourself this and you can make a decision.

If you can improve an aspect of your application significantly ( Research, volunteering, etc.) then reapplying as to MD might be good.

Otherwise, you will probably get the same results.

Also, ignore all outside influences pushing you to do certain things. Look at the stats on MSAR, advice on this thread. Your parents might mean well but they don't know much compared to the people on here.

Your GPA is not ridiculously low, but it is low.

Your MCAT is ridiculously high.

So you have an average application that should get you into some MD school.

The only concern is if schools auto screen out people below a certain GPA. If so, you might not get into MD.

@baratheonfire

Ostensibly my GPA would improve to ~3.6 next year, but that's by no means guaranteed. I'm thinking about applying to both MD and DO and will make a decision soon.

I didn't realize you only finished your sophomore year. I think it would be in your best interests to apply after junior year.

I'd like to at least try to apply this year because I'd prefer to not take a gap year.

 

[Crayola227]

crazy not to apply DO if you can

 

[starspells]

I'd like to at least try to apply this year because I'd prefer to not take a gap year.

Avoid schools that require at least 90 credits by the time of submission.

 

[baratheonfire]

Avoid schools that require at least 90 credits by the time of submission.

I have 98 credits

 

[scaredadvocate]

The facts: https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/factstablea24-3.pdf

64% of Asians with your stats get in. It's still 52% if you round down to the 3.2-3.39 range. Of course waiting a year and getting more experiences/maturity would only help.

 

[QuestionsAnswers]

I'm not sure how big a deal this whole DO/MD thing is honestly (once you get out of your room and into the real world where there's more to life and being a doctor than relative abstractions like degree letters), unless you are really set on a specialty where you have good reason to believe going DO would put you at a disadvantage. I think you just have to make the best decision based on what is important to you. I think sometimes smart people with the ability to focus on minute and abstract details tend to miss the forest (being a physician) for the trees (the letters after your name and other status type things).

When you're in a clinical environment you'll see that when people address you as an M.D., they'll call you Dr. Baratheonfire, and if they address you as a D.O., they'll also call you Dr. Baratheonfire. (Not Dr. Baratheonfire, D.O.).

BTW, I know people from my scribe location who have gotten into medical school and I personally thought that the one (former chief scribe) who went to the DO school was overall a more interesting and in some ways impressive person than a few students who went M.D. (who tended to be more typical pre-med types but with stats acceptable for M.D.), she just wasn't as savvy about studying for the MCAT/grades and such. But she also was one of initial/founding scribes at the clinic where I work.

I think good students can get OCD'ish and sometimes over-focus on abstractions like grades, test scores, letters, etc. (I know I can), but the importance of that stuff often is lessened (to a degree at least) when you get out into the real world in terms of how it actually affects you.

Also, I have a 3.89c, 515 balanced and only MCAT and I am also applying DO as well as MD because I'm an older applicant and I was always planning to apply to both even before my MCAT score.
What I've seen in the clinical setting has decreased any concerns about applying DO because I see that DOs have the exact same rights/duties/respect as MDs in the clinic where I work.

Anyway, the point is just make sure in how you approach this cycle you are doing things for the right reasons and keeping the bigger picture in mind. From a strategic POV if I were you I'd probably apply to a ton of M.D. and some D.O. as well, or just take the M.D. only cycle this year and hopefully it works, and if not you can apply to both next year and you won't have to wonder "what if" as much. It's ultimately your choice alone to make, not ours, and not your parents.

Also, I think it's healthy to have activities and other things that give your life meaning and enjoyment and which aren't predicated on status symbols or validation from other people which can help put these types of things you're agonizing over into a more reasonable perspective.

 

[baratheonfire]

I'm not sure how big a deal this whole DO/MD thing is honestly (once you get out of your room and into the real world where there's more to life and being a doctor than relative abstractions like degree letters), unless you are really set on a specialty where you have good reason to believe going DO would put you at a disadvantage. I think you just have to make the best decision based on what is important to you. I think sometimes smart people with the ability to focus on minute and abstract details tend to miss the forest (being a physician) for the trees (the letters after your name and other status type things).

When you're in a clinical environment you'll see that when people address you as an M.D., they'll call you Dr. Baratheonfire, and if they address you as a D.O., they'll also call you Dr. Baratheonfire. (Not Dr. Baratheonfire, D.O.).

BTW, I know people from my scribe location who have gotten into medical school and I personally thought that the one (former chief scribe) who went to the DO school was overall a more interesting and in some ways impressive person than a few students who went M.D. (who tended to be more typical pre-med types but with stats acceptable for M.D.), she just wasn't as savvy about studying for the MCAT/grades and such. But she also was one of initial/founding scribes at the clinic where I work.

I think good students can get OCD'ish and sometimes over-focus on abstractions like grades, test scores, letters, etc. (I know I can), but the importance of that stuff often is lessened (to a degree at least) when you get out into the real world in terms of how it actually affects you.

Also, I have a 3.89c, 515 balanced and only MCAT and I am also applying DO as well as MD because I'm an older applicant and I was always planning to apply to both even before my MCAT score.
What I've seen in the clinical setting has decreased any concerns about applying DO because I see that DOs have the exact same rights/duties/respect as MDs in the clinic where I work.

Anyway, the point is just make sure in how you approach this cycle you are doing things for the right reasons and keeping the bigger picture in mind. From a strategic POV if I were you I'd probably apply to a ton of M.D. and some D.O. as well, or just take the M.D. only cycle this year and hopefully it works, and if not you can apply to both next year and you won't have to wonder "what if" as much. It's ultimately your choice alone to make, not ours, and not your parents.

Also, I think it's healthy to have activities and other things that give your life meaning and enjoyment and which aren't predicated on status symbols or validation from other people which can help put these types of things you're agonizing over into a more reasonable perspective.

I'm thinking about it. But MD is my first choice and it's not really accurate to say that going DO has absolutely no limitations.

 

[QuestionsAnswers]

I didn't say DO "had absolutely no limitations," (notice I mentioned you should consider whether you want to pursue a specialty where you think being a DO would be a disadvantage). What I did say, and I think is fair to say given I have a decent amount of clinical exposure, is that there is no apparent difference between how the DOs and MDs at the clinic where I work are treated (they are simply regarded as "Doctors") or in the work they do, the size of their offices, the acuity of the patients they treat, etc.

Personally, given your angst about this and the fact that you're only 19, I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to try an M.D. only cycle first so at least you know. Maybe try to add to your ECs and improve your GPA in the meantime, and then apply MD/DO next year if needed. Definitely don't apply DO unless you're willing to go DO. It is your choice to make though and you at least have some time to think it through because it is still June.

 

[baratheonfire]

I didn't say DO "had absolutely no limitations," (notice I mentioned you should consider whether you want to pursue a specialty where you think being a DO would be a disadvantage). What I did say, and I think is fair to say given I have a decent amount of clinical exposure, is that there is no apparent difference between how the DOs and MDs at the clinic where I work are treated (they are simply regarded as "Doctors") or in the work they do, the size of their offices, the acuity of the patients they treat, etc.

Personally, given your angst about this and the fact that you're only 19, I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to try an M.D. only cycle first so at least you know. Maybe try to add to your ECs and improve your GPA in the meantime, and then apply MD/DO next year if needed. Definitely don't apply DO unless you're willing to go DO. It is your choice to make though and you at least have some time to think it through because it is still June.

Yeah, I'm pretty much going to treat this as a trial run. Do you think it's likely I'll be rejected by all ~30 MD schools I apply to?

 

[QuestionsAnswers]

Well, with an MCAT of 37-38 the AAMC grid shows better than 60% chance of acceptance somewhere. https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/data/factstablea24-3.pdf
You're applying early (I assume), and broadly with what will hopefully be a good list. If I were you I'd check with your premed office to see what schools people have been successful in applying to from your college in the past (schools that might know your school is grade deflating).

ECs seem decent and scribing should help a bit. At 19 I think you'll need to be extra sure to show maturity, humility, and thoughtfulness in your interviews/essays. I'm not an expert on admissions but I wonder if in some sense your age will be an issue as much as your GPA. If it were me I'd probably take a year to try to boost my GPA above 3.6 if possible and get a ton of scribing hours, but it seems like you're set on applying (or your parents are) so I think the best approach would be applying broadly to MD this year and hopefully you'll get some bites from schools. And in the meantime you'll be getting a lot more scribing hours and maybe improving your GPA, and given you are quite young you have plenty of time to get in somewhere. Good luck!

 

[baratheonfire]

Here is my school list so far, I'd really appreciate it if you guys could review it:

Stonybrook
Suny Upstate
Suny Downstate
Suny Buffalo
New York Medical College
Tufts
Boston University
Albany Medical College
Quinnipiac (Netter)
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Georgetown
Loyola
U Miami
Wake Forest
University of Vermont
Creighton
Rush
George Washington University
University of Rochester
Emory
Hofstra
Dartmouth
Albert Einstein
Rosalind Franklin
Brown
Tulane
Medical College Wisconsin
Eastern Virginia Medical School
Western Michigan University
Central Michigan University
Florida International University
Wright State University
St. Louis University
USF Morsani
Penn State
Oakland University
University of Minnesota

 

[efle]

39 schools is a lot

 

[Chromium Surfer]

Here is my school list so far, I'd really appreciate it if you guys could review it:

Stonybrook
Suny Upstate
Suny Downstate
Suny Buffalo
New York Medical College
Tufts
Boston University
Albany Medical College
Quinnipiac (Netter)
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Georgetown
Loyola
U Miami
Wake Forest
University of Vermont
Creighton
Rush
George Washington University
University of Rochester
Emory
Hofstra
Dartmouth
Albert Einstein
Rosalind Franklin
Brown
Tulane
Medical College Wisconsin
Eastern Virginia Medical School
Western Michigan University
Central Michigan University
Florida International University
Wright State University
St. Louis University
USF Morsani
Penn State
Oakland University
University of Minnesota

Brown favors its own undergrads and most get it through special programs. Their fit is the quirky type so scratch them. Georgetown is low yield or so I've been told so I would take that off as well. Can't comment on anything else comes I'm still learning. Best of luck man I hope you get in the first time!

 

[baratheonfire]

39 schools is a lot

I really don't think I'm gonna get in if I apply to any fewer

Brown favors its own undergrads and most get it through special programs. Their fit is the quirky type so scratch them. Georgetown is low yield or so I've been told so I would take that off as well. Can't comment on anything else comes I'm still learning. Best of luck man I hope you get in the first time!

Will do, thanks

 

[baratheonfire]

.

 

[QuestionsAnswers]

Brown favors its own undergrads and most get it through special programs. Their fit is the quirky type so scratch them. Georgetown is low yield or so I've been told so I would take that off as well. Can't comment on anything else comes I'm still learning. Best of luck man I hope you get in the first time!

Just curious, what do you mean by "the quirky type?"

 

[baratheonfire]

Just curious, what do you mean by "the quirky type?"

I'm not sure, I hope he answers

 

[Chromium Surfer]

Just curious, what do you mean by "the quirky type?"

I'm not sure, I hope he answers

Hey guys! Form what I heard it's like the liberal art major types that are also nontrads. As opposed to the traditional hard science majors.

 

[baratheonfire]

Hey guys! Form what I heard it's like the liberal art major types that are also nontrads. As opposed to the traditional hard science majors.

Oh, I see

 

[jontron]

@baratheonfire was admitted into 1 MD school and 2 DO schools

 

[efle]

@baratheonfire was admitted into 1 MD school and 2 DO schools

Not gonna tell us the MD school?

 

[CavsFan2016]

miss that guy. he definitely was one nutty dude

 

[Mushmallow]

Not gonna tell us the MD school?

Pretty sure it's TCMC