3.52sGPA 3.68cGPA 34N MCAT(11/11/12) Should I do Georgetown SMP?

[tizhang]

Hey all,

I was hoping some wise people would weigh in on whether or not I should attend the SMP at Georgetown?

I first tried applying for the 2012-13 application cycle and sent my application to mdphd programs exclusively. I got zero interviews so that seemed very unsuccessful. For this past cycle, I applied to approcimately 15 MD only programs in my home state, Maryland, and neighboring states (trying to stay as close to home as possible). Unfortunately, I applied early decision to my state school at first (which didn't pan out) so I wasn't able to send in my application to the other schools until late September. At the same time, I also applied to the SMPs at Georgetown and George Mason, and was accepted to both with only a couple of months turnover. Then, I managed to snag two interviews, VTC and WVU. But I got rejected by VTC this past Monday and have been on WVU's waitlist since March so I'm preparing my application for the next cycle.

In the meantime, I've been getting a lot of conflicting advice about attending the Georgetown SMP during this next gap year. Some have told me my stats are good enough to just try applying again and that it's not worth throwing down $50k. For me, I just feel as though my application must not stand out enough considering my lack of success so far. Considering this will be my third application cycle, I feel a little desperate and the SMP looks like an appealing way to improve my application. Being able to earn an M.S. degree, put Georgetown on my resume, and possibly boost my GPA are also really appealing factors for me. I'm not too worried about possibly ruining my GPA by doing poorly, but the cost of attending is making the decision hard for me (though I am leaning toward attending).

Any advice on the SMP or being a reapplicant would be greatly appreciated!

Research XP:
- summer internship working full-time as a computer programmer at the FDA
(GUI development for software to measure volume of tumors in CT scans)
- two years working part-time over the school year and full-time over the summer at the FDA
(various projects dealing with polymers used in medicine such as joint replacement surgery or drug-eluting stents--materials science and mechanics experimentation)
- four year undergrad research program (Gemstone) with thesis and presentation to committee of scientists and doctors
(research comparing ACL grafts after reconstruction in cadaver specimens)
- one year working part-time as faculty research assistant at the UMD Orthopaedic Mechanobiology Lab
(suture anchor pull-out studies, ACL graft cleaning methods, external fixation construct strength testing)
- one year working full-time as research assistant with the Maryland Cancer Registry
(epidemiology and cancer surveillance)

Clinical XP:
- 80 hours shadowing ortho surgeon at hospital
- 36 hours shadowing ortho surgeon at private clinic

Community Service
- 10 hours volunteering at local hospital (just started in March and ongoing)
- 210 hours volunteer coaching wushu martial arts

My clinical XP probably isn't as extensive as it should be with two gap years but I tore my ACL for the second time last summer so that put an eight month long hold on all my activities. Martial arts is dangerous, guys :\

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[hoihaie]

You should probably increase your hospital volunteering hours. 10 hours is very little.

 

[Ismet]

Moving to WAMC

 

[tizhang]

You should probably increase your hospital volunteering hours. 10 hours is very little.

Thanks. I had been shadowing up until my ACL tear and picked up volunteering soon after my physical therapy progressed enough, which ended up being this past February. I plan on continuing to volunteer through the summer until I guess I go to Georgetown.

 

[Plecopotamus]

Hey all,

I was hoping some wise people would weigh in on whether or not I should attend the SMP at Georgetown?

I first tried applying for the 2012-13 application cycle and sent my application to mdphd programs exclusively. I got zero interviews so that seemed very unsuccessful. For this past cycle, I applied to approcimately 15 MD only programs in my home state, Maryland, and neighboring states (trying to stay as close to home as possible). Unfortunately, I applied early decision to my state school at first (which didn't pan out) so I wasn't able to send in my application to the other schools until late September. At the same time, I also applied to the SMPs at Georgetown and George Mason, and was accepted to both with only a couple of months turnover. Then, I managed to snag two interviews, VTC and WVU. But I got rejected by VTC this past Monday and have been on WVU's waitlist since March so I'm preparing my application for the next cycle.

In the meantime, I've been getting a lot of conflicting advice about attending the Georgetown SMP during this next gap year. Some have told me my stats are good enough to just try applying again and that it's not worth throwing down $50k. For me, I just feel as though my application must not stand out enough considering my lack of success so far. Considering this will be my third application cycle, I feel a little desperate and the SMP looks like an appealing way to improve my application. Being able to earn an M.S. degree, put Georgetown on my resume, and possibly boost my GPA are also really appealing factors for me. I'm not too worried about possibly ruining my GPA by doing poorly, but the cost of attending is making the decision hard for me (though I am leaning toward attending).

Any advice on the SMP or being a reapplicant would be greatly appreciated!

Research XP:
- summer internship working full-time as a computer programmer at the FDA
(GUI development for software to measure volume of tumors in CT scans)
- two years working part-time over the school year and full-time over the summer at the FDA
(various projects dealing with polymers used in medicine such as joint replacement surgery or drug-eluting stents--materials science and mechanics experimentation)
- four year undergrad research program (Gemstone) with thesis and presentation to committee of scientists and doctors
(research comparing ACL grafts after reconstruction in cadaver specimens)
- one year working part-time as faculty research assistant at the UMD Orthopaedic Mechanobiology Lab
(suture anchor pull-out studies, ACL graft cleaning methods, external fixation construct strength testing)
- one year working full-time as research assistant with the Maryland Cancer Registry
(epidemiology and cancer surveillance)

Clinical XP:
- 80 hours shadowing ortho surgeon at hospital
- 36 hours shadowing ortho surgeon at private clinic

Community Service
- 10 hours volunteering at local hospital (ongoing)
- 210 hours volunteer coaching wushu martial arts

I don't think your GPA or MCAT are your problem if you apply broadly/appropriately to MD only programs, so in my opinion an SMP is not addressing the area that caused you to get rejected. Nobody can count on doing well in an SMP, so I feel like risking mediocre performance there is foolish.

Your clinical volunteering is completely inadequate.
It would be prudent to consider whether there are also any problems with your PS/secondary responses and LORs.

 

[tizhang]

I don't think your GPA or MCAT are your problem if you apply broadly/appropriately to MD only programs, so in my opinion an SMP is not addressing the area that caused you to get rejected. Nobody can count on doing well in an SMP, so I feel like risking mediocre performance there is foolish.

Your clinical volunteering is completely inadequate.
It would be prudent to consider whether there are also any problems with your PS/secondary responses and LORs.

My clinical volunteering is completely inadequate? I understand that clinical shadowing and volunteering are two different things but I thought that adcoms review you based on clinical xp, research xp, and community service/volunteering. But is volunteering in a clinical setting judged in its own category rather than under an umbrella of clinical xp or volunteering? I had been advised that my volunteer activities did not have to be restricted to a clinical setting as long as I was in a position where I interact with and help people and that shadowing was a viable way to gain clinical xp.

 

[Plecopotamus]

My clinical volunteering is completely inadequate? I understand that clinical shadowing and volunteering are two different things but I thought that adcoms review you based on clinical xp, research xp, and community service/volunteering. But is volunteering in a clinical setting judged in its own category rather than under an umbrella of clinical xp or volunteering? I had been advised that my volunteer activities did not have to be restricted to a clinical setting as long as I was in a position where I interact with and help people and that shadowing was a viable way to gain clinical xp.

The average applicant has over 100 hours of clinical volunteering. Many aim for 200.

You seem to be looking at this like discrete check boxes, but you need to look at the underlying point of these "requirements" and realize this is more grey than black and white. Neither shadowing nor non-clinical volunteering demonstrate patient interaction, which is typically vouched for by clinical work, whether paid or unpaid.

 

[tizhang]

The average applicant has over 100 hours of clinical volunteering. Many aim for 200.

You seem to be looking at this like discrete check boxes, but you need to look at the underlying point of these "requirements" and realize this is more grey than black and white. Neither shadowing nor non-clinical volunteering demonstrate patient interaction, which is typically vouched for by clinical work, whether paid or unpaid.

Mmm, I understand. Though I wouldn't think that all shadowing is purely without patient interaction. My stint with the ortho surgeon at private clinic had us interact with patients who were comfortable with letting us take basic histories. But of course, I would mention these specifics in the work/activities section of the common app. In addition, I do realize there is meaning behind the requirements which is why I mentioned non-clinical volunteering. My adviser suggested that shadowing was a good way for me to gain clinical experience and learn bedside manner while the purpose of my volunteering should be showing that I can interact with different kinds of people, not necessarily patients. As a coach, I teach students with many kinds of tempers and help them build strength. Of course patient interaction would be most appropriate but I wasn't under the impression that extensive patient interaction was a must. But I suppose I just got different advice from my undergrad adviser. There is no doubt that I want to improve on this area to make my application better. Thanks.

 

[whomikejones]

As someone who did G-town SMP with similar (but slightly worse) GPA and MCAT and is now at an MD program, I would agree with Pleco in that your numbers aren't your problem and therefore SMP isn't your solution. I would not blow $50k on an SMP. SMP year is brutal and again, it's not something you really need to prove yourself (your grades and MCAT are good!). I'm a third year student and the more exposure i get to the admissions processes, the more I realize it's somewhat of a crapshoot. With so many applications, sometimes you just have to get lucky. You had a few things working against you, namely your late application (probably 1/2 our school's interviews went out before Sept/Oct) and your limited list of schools.

I don't think adding a few more volunteering hours to your resume is going to help (although it absolutely won't hurt). Your GPA/MCAT get your application read, and beyond that it's having an interesting enough resume and essays to warrant an interview. Obviously you did well enough to snag a couple of MD interviews this year. If I were in your shoes again, I would skip the SMP and spend another year working (research, scribing, whatever interests you) and bank some spending cash for med school. just make sure whatever you decide it's something you can talk about during interviews in an interesting and meaningful way.

If you apply BROADLY (15-20 apps) and EARLY (your app should be in the day AMCAS opens), no way you don't get an acceptance next cycle. Again, you need to target schools in your GPA/MCAT range. Many of the schools in your geographic area are pretty selective. If allopathic MD is truly your dream you might need to expand your geographic limitations (but hey, not everyone can put their personal life aside, i get it). WVU and VTC are right in your range and you earned interviews. Albany, TCMC, Creighton, Drexel, EVMS, Jefferson, Marshall, NYMC, Oakland, Rowan, Tulane, Toledo, etc. should be added to your list if you can to give you the best shot. Best of luck.

 

[Goro]

Concur with my young colleague. As mentioned above, the biggest problem with your app is the lack of clinical volunteering. So take a gap year and work on showing AdComs that you really like being around sick people and that you know what you're getting into. Aim for low/medium tier MS schools, U MD, all new MD schools and any DO program.

I don't think your GPA or MCAT are your problem if you apply broadly/appropriately to MD only programs, so in my opinion an SMP is not addressing the area that caused you to get rejected. Nobody can count on doing well in an SMP, so I feel like risking mediocre performance there is foolish.

Your clinical volunteering is completely inadequate.
It would be prudent to consider whether there are also any problems with your PS/secondary responses and LORs.

 

[thebeachisthebest]

I've met a representative from the Georgetown SMP program who suggested that a cGPA above 3.5 indicated one was not a great fit for the program. Probably given the cost and chance of showing a minimally (or not at all) improved GPA, it would not be worthwhile. I also found this on the SMP program website: "If your academic background is already good (science and overall GPA 3.5 or greater) our "Regular" MS Program in Physiology may be a great fit. This program offers a rigorous biomedical graduate curriculum that is excellent preparation for entry into medical, dental, or other health professional schools, as well as doctoral programs."

So I would agree with those above in saying that the SMP probably isn't the best choice for you next year. Just my $0.02!

 

[Plecopotamus]

Mmm, I understand. Though I wouldn't think that all shadowing is purely without patient interaction. My stint with the ortho surgeon at private clinic had us interact with patients who were comfortable with letting us take basic histories. But of course, I would mention these specifics in the work/activities section of the common app. In addition, I do realize there is meaning behind the requirements which is why I mentioned non-clinical volunteering. My adviser suggested that shadowing was a good way for me to gain clinical experience and learn bedside manner while the purpose of my volunteering should be showing that I can interact with different kinds of people, not necessarily patients. As a coach, I teach students with many kinds of tempers and help them build strength. Of course patient interaction would be most appropriate but I wasn't under the impression that extensive patient interaction was a must. But I suppose I just got different advice from my undergrad adviser. There is no doubt that I want to improve on this area to make my application better. Thanks.

It sounds a little bit like you are going to try to justify that you have patient interaction through your shadowing when you next do AMCAS rather than totally bring your clinical experience up to par. Don't do it. You have feedback above from 2 adcoms (Goro who has commented and gyngyn who has liked posts with appropriate answers) telling you that you need volunteering. There is no easy way out of this -- do what everybody else does and get yourself to a hospital, clinic, hospice, etc. and volunteer. If you apply again without increasing these hours (and schools can and do compare prior apps for improvement before inviting reapplicants for interview or admission), it will reflect even more poorly on you than simply not having the hours.

Shadowing may incidentally result in patient interaction, but that is not the same as successfully completing a regularly scheduled job with responsibility for doing something for sick people.

And your work as a coach does, indeed, demonstrate admirable qualities. Nobody here is contesting that. But again, it cannot be a substitute for proving that you are interested in, committed enough to, and able to tolerate working with ill patients in the way that regularly fitting a volunteer or paid clinical job into your weekly schedule does.

 

[Mking91]

I am a current student of the Georgetown SMP and I agree with what the majority of the above posts are saying. The program is for people who have lower GPA's to prove that they are capable of surviving the academic rigor of medical school. Your stats are on par, if not above, many MD applicants, and therefore you have nothing to prove with that. In addition, there have been students in the program this year with your stats who have not done well (some even being asked to leave), and significantly decreased their chances of admission for MD programs. It really is a risk. I know personally, I have studied CONSTANTLY week in and week out, and I am producing average grades. Do not believe the posts of people who have not done an SMP who say a 4.0 in the SMP is necessary to succeed. The average GPA of the program is around a 3.3 and to be honest, I know many, many SMPs who are working their butts off but doing much lower than that, and it will hurt their chances in the end.

With your stats, you should get more clinical experience. A great choice would be working as a medical scribe. ScribeAmerica is a great option for a Maryland resident (I went to UMD and worked as a scribe), and there are tons of volunteer opportunities in this area. Also, I believe that your weaknesses in this process had to do with your overall application methods and the way you went about the cycles. You need to apply EARLY and BROADLY, and given your stats, you stand a great chance. A lot of this process is strategy, and taking some time to expand your clinical experience and really plan out your strategy as to not limit yourself to any specific school or program type, would go a long way.