3.54 GPA, 35 MCAT, CA resident - SMP?

[13962Girl]

I will be graduating this year from a top undergrad, and am planning on applying for the 2016-17 cycle. I have strong research ECs, including 3 publications, about 50 hours shadowing, and expect to have approx 150 hours hospital volunteering by this summer, with that number continuing to increase throughout the year. My MCAT is a one time, balanced score (12 11 12) taken in August 2014.

I realize I am a borderline candidate for MD schools, but probably a strong candidate for DO. I am considering applying to SMP programs in addition to med schools this year in the event my applications are unsuccessful, but am concerned I may do more harm than good if my performance in an SMP is not excellent. Would it make more sense for me to focus on bettering my non-research ECs rather than my GPA during a gap year?

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[GrapesofRath]

Your stats are sufficient for plenty of schools. The majority of applicants who apply to medical school with a 3.54/35 get in somewhere.

So no, I would not focus on SMP's, rather I would focus on maximizing your non research EC's and presenting yourself in a compelling and unique way that will make an ADCOM(s) at an admissions committee meeting want to vouch for you.

 

[Me.D.]

Apply broadly as you possibly can and you should slip in somewhere I have very similar stats and things are working out so far for me this cycle

 

[beatro]

I second what GrapesofRath and Me.D. said.

I'm an ORM from CA and I applied this cycle with a slightly lower GPA and a slightly higher MCAT. I had about the same amount of clinical volunteering, slightly less productive research, and more non-clinical EC hours. So far, I've had a couple of interviews and I've managed to snag a spot at my top choice MD school in CA.

You have about 5-6 months before you submit your application so first I'd focus on really thinking about how you plan on presenting yourself. It's like you're a brand- what's your image? Once you have that idea, fill in the story with EC's that fit it. For example, if you've been doing research focused on Alzheimers, maybe start volunteering with the elderly.

 

[13962Girl]

My intention is to apply early and broadly, with the SMP as a back-up. I feel like this upcoming cycle is my best chance and don't want to blow it -- my MCAT will not be accepted at too many schools after the 2016-17 cycle, and I *really* do not want to take it again. And I am a bit concerned about choosing the DO route because of the upcoming merger and the uncertainty that brings. At the moment I most interested in trauma surgery, and though I know my interests can change, I do want that specialty to be an option.

 

[Goro]

SMP??? Do I have to reach through the electrons and smack some sense into you?

Here's where I think that you're competitive right now (and upward GPA trends help too):

Miami
St. Louis
Albany
Rochester
Rush
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
VCU
EVMS
Wake Forest
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
George Washington
Tulane
Loyola
Creighton
Any new MD school, except Hofstra and Central MI, FIU, FAU and UCF. I can't recommend CNU.
Any DO school (how fast do you want to be a doctor???)

I will be graduating this year from a top undergrad, and am planning on applying for the 2016-17 cycle. I have strong research ECs, including 3 publications, about 50 hours shadowing, and expect to have approx 150 hours hospital volunteering by this summer, with that number continuing to increase throughout the year. My MCAT is a one time, balanced score (12 11 12) taken in August 2014.

I realize I am a borderline candidate for MD schools, but probably a strong candidate for DO. I am considering applying to SMP programs in addition to med schools this year in the event my applications are unsuccessful, but am concerned I may do more harm than good if my performance in an SMP is not excellent. Would it make more sense for me to focus on bettering my non-research ECs rather than my GPA during a gap year?

 

[GrapesofRath]

My intention is to apply early and broadly, with the SMP as a back-up. I feel like this upcoming cycle is my best chance and don't want to blow it -- my MCAT will not be accepted at too many schools after the 2016-17 cycle, and I *really* do not want to take it again. And I am a bit concerned about choosing the DO route because of the upcoming merger and the uncertainty that brings. At the moment I most interested in trauma surgery, and though I know my interests can change, I do want that specialty to be an option.

This sounds like a more reasonable plan but again I'll say this: if you don't get accepted with a 3.55/35, odds are your numbers aren't what will be what keep you out. I would focus on the non numerical aspects of your application and solidifying them as those can make all the difference.

I would encourage anybody considering an SMP to do significant research on them to a) understand their risky nature and what it entails b) discover what the good programs are. Many now days have become watered down cash cows that are interested only in your money and granting you a worthless masters degree. None have any obligation in getting you into a US MD program and many are vague as to how (un)successful their grads are at getting into them. Its your job to sort through the ones that get people into US MD schools and the ones that don't. Cincinnati is an example of a good one. Drexel would be an example of one that would fall in the "watered down cashcow" business.

 

[13962Girl]

Goro, thank you for your oh-so-encouraging post (especially the last part)!! It is good to hear something positive rather than concerns that my GPA will not meet the cut-off at many schools and thus my application won't even be looked at.

May I ask why you exclude Hofstra, Central MI, FIU, etc.? Is it because I am not a good fit, or because you don't recommend the schools themselves?

 

[Doug Underhill]

Hofstra has like a 3.7/34 average. If you have a compelling reason to go there and are really hyped about Hofstra, you might as well submit an app, but it's probably a reach.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Definitely include Hofstra. The other schools aren't OOS friendly but it might be worth a shot at a few.

I might consider also looking into Cincinnati, Einstein, Rochester, Emory, Medical College Wisconsin, Virginia Tech, Western Michigan, Penn State, U of Illinois and U of Arizona.

 

[BluMist]

You might not be competitive at Hofstra, and the other schools (my guess) seem to be unfriendly for OOS

May I ask why you exclude Hofstra, Central MI, FIU, etc.? Is it because I am not a good fit, or because you don't recommend the schools themselves?

 

[13962Girl]

Got it. Thanks. Have heard rumblings about Seton Hall -- though I'm from CA, my family's roots are in NJ, and Seton Hall is my grandfather's alma mater. Can't seem to find any recent info on the prospects of them accepting their first class in 2017 though.

 

[feather421]

I got into Hofstra with similar numbers to yours from CA! I've had a lot of success this cycle, and a lot of it seems to come down to things like how I packaged myself, my letters of rec, and other intangibles. Most people will see a high MCAT and an upward trend GPA and think "Bright, struggled a bit at the beginning of college." Not the hardest thing to sell.

Disclaimer: I am technically URM, though I have no idea how much this played into my application cycle (plz no debates).

 

[13962Girl]

GrapesofRath, my concerns about an SMP mirror what you have said. I have looked at a few of them, and for those that do name the schools to which their recent alum have been accepted, I oftentimes see DO schools on the lists. I am already competitive for those -- I want to see acceptances to MD schools, and when I see SMP programs touting that "x% accepted to *medical* school," I have to keep in mind that those numbers include DO acceptances as well as MD. I don't need to spend 50-60k to wind up no better off than before I spent it, and possibly worse.

 

[GrapesofRath]

GrapesofRath, my concerns about an SMP mirror what you have said. I have looked at a few of them, and for those that do name the schools to which their recent alum have been accepted, I oftentimes see DO schools on the lists. I am already competitive for those -- I want to see acceptances to MD schools, and when I see SMP programs touting that "x% accepted to *medical* school," I have to keep in mind that those numbers include DO acceptances as well as MD. I don't need to spend 50-60k to wind up no better off than before I spent it, and possibly worse.

https://med.uc.edu/msinphysiology/alumni/meet-the-class-of-2013
Well Cincinnati is the rare SMP that tells you exactly how their SMPers do. By my estimation about 75-80% of their people get into US MD programs.

But yeah, that is exactly the point of SMPs; they are high risk and sometimes not high reward. That's why I would only recommend doing one if you have no other way of getting into an MD school. That clearly isn't the case for you; if you apply broadly with a 3.55/35 you will have a rather competitive application. Focus on the non research aspects of your ECs.

If you went to a UC for UG alot of them publish where their grads end up in the med school admission process. You'll see schools like Case Western, NYMC, Saint Louis, the SUNYs, Medical College of Wisconsin, U of Illinois amongst others pop up every single year frequently. Those would be some of the first schools I would look at.

 

[13962Girl]

I notice a number of acceptances to CNU on Cincinnati's Class of 2014 page -- that gives me some pause considering Goro's words of warning!

 

[13962Girl]

Just to update this thread and to give hope to fellow SDNers with stats similar to mine, I took the advice to apply broadly this cycle, and applied to 36 (!!!) MD schools, a mix of mid and low tier, all the CA schools, and a few Hail Mary dream schools. I received 2 IIs, and 2 acceptances, the first acceptance in early December and the 2nd this past week. . Both acceptances were to public schools for which I am OOS. I still have a number of schools that I haven't heard from but am considering them to be silent rejections.

My apps, including secondaries, were all complete by late August. I had a bit of a difficulty getting one LOR, and a delay by my undergrad with my transcript that cost me about a week and a half getting verified. Though it's all Monday morning quarterbacking now, I do feel that had I been complete much earlier I might have received another II or 2. I do know that at a number of schools to which I applied the first wave of IIs went out right around the time I was marked complete. So get those apps in right away if you can, and get that transcript ordered right away, you can get that requested and on its way before you complete your app.

I am beyond thrilled with the outcome of this cycle, and so grateful for the opportunity to attend either of these 2 schools that saw in me the promise of a physician!!!

 

[Spoderman]

SMP??? Do I have to reach through the electrons and smack some sense into you?

Here's where I think that you're competitive right now (and upward GPA trends help too):

Miami
St. Louis
Albany
Rochester
Rush
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
VCU
EVMS
Wake Forest
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
George Washington
Tulane
Loyola
Creighton
Any new MD school, except Hofstra and Central MI, FIU, FAU and UCF. I can't recommend CNU.
Any DO school (how fast do you want to be a doctor???)

This is very similar to the school list I used, with stats very similar to yours, and it's worked out pretty well for me. Focus on writing some quality essays, don't waste extra time and money on an SMP!

Edit: Sorry- didn't check the date on the original. Congrats on the acceptances!

 

[21Rush12]

@13962Girl Congratulations! Who are the lucky schools you're choosing from?


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[13962Girl]

Trying to retain some anonymity so, prefer not to state. But they are both publics in the Northeast.

 

[caffeinemia]

Hofstra has like a 3.7/34 average. If you have a compelling reason to go there and are really hyped about Hofstra, you might as well submit an app, but it's probably a reach.

IMHO - It's neither worth the time or the effort. The advising and, to some extent, the clinical education here are subpar (sorry Goro, I know you love LI).

Also, how long does an MCAT score last these days? I thought 3 years was the limit and it's 2017-2018 app cycle, no?

 

[Thego2guy]

IMHO - It's neither worth the time or the effort. The advising and, to some extent, the clinical education here are subpar (sorry Goro, I know you love LI).

Also, how long does an MCAT score last these days? I thought 3 years was the limit and it's 2017-2018 app cycle, no?

Congrats to OP!

And, subpar education at Hofstra specifically, or LI in general? Why do you think its subpar? just curious

 

[tessellations]

IMHO - It's neither worth the time or the effort. The advising and, to some extent, the clinical education here are subpar (sorry Goro, I know you love LI).

Also, how long does an MCAT score last these days? I thought 3 years was the limit and it's 2017-2018 app cycle, no?

It's currently the 2016-2017 cycle (OP applied August 2016), so they would have been fine with a 2014 score. But you're right, there is a 3 year limit.

 

[Pr1d3D0c]

IMHO - It's neither worth the time or the effort. The advising and, to some extent, the clinical education here are subpar (sorry Goro, I know you love LI).

Also, how long does an MCAT score last these days? I thought 3 years was the limit and it's 2017-2018 app cycle, no?

Could you elaborate? I am a student who is currently accepted to Hofstra and am very curious...

 

[mistafab]

Your numbers are cool.

I'd pay special attention to make sure the schools you plan to apply to still allow the old MCAT.

 

[caffeinemia]

Could you elaborate? I am a student who is currently accepted to Hofstra and am very curious...

People will probably disagree highly with me on this, and I may be biased based on people from there that I've interacted with and people I personally know who go there. The students generally look like lost deer on the wards, have average to poor understanding of ward logistics go and how they should behave and interact with patients, residents, attendings, other students on the wards. They don't know how to really pre-round (as I suspected ... and after talking to their students, they don't really carry patients on 3rd year surgical rotations, and hardly any on medical rotations). They, don't know how to present because they barely get the chance to, and they don't know how to write notes (SOAPs, H&Ps), likely also because they rarely get the chance to. As a surgical resident, I give all students a chance to try it and almost every time, I've seen Einstein or some other comparable program or even out of state people like Drexel students blow em out of the water. They're also some of the few students that have had professionalism issues on our rotation. Namely, being on time and dressing professionally for conference. They also just sorta show up and disappear at certain points in the day, god knows to where? All these things are things that their school should have prepared them for... and I've asked and they admit generally get little instruction on that. Of course, they're great with their board scores and stuff -- some out of this world numbers, but education about how to answer phone calls, answer pages, put in orders, write notes, come up with problem lists and plans were essentially non-existent. These are critical skills for AIs and for intern year! And in case anyone thinks I'm exaggerating, you should ask em about their disaster surgical match a few years ago. That said, I do admit I've met about 3 excellent students from there, but these people seemed to be anomalies rather than rule. So take my thoughts with a grain of salt and make sure you check out the perspective of current students (and the most senior students). Perhaps ask them after their match this year and see what they have to say.

 

[caffeinemia]

It's currently the 2016-2017 cycle (OP applied August 2016), so they would have been fine with a 2014 score. But you're right, there is a 3 year limit.

Thanks, maybe I necro-ed a thread? If so, oops.

 

[tessellations]

Thanks, maybe I necro-ed a thread? If so, oops.

Nah, you're good. OP bumped the thread with an update saying that they got into medical school a couple of days ago.