3.67 Overall, 3.9 Science, 27 MCAT (10P,6V,11B), need advice

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kevinvo1981

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Hello everyone,

Here's my situation.

I have 3.67 Overall from B.S in Computer Science, 3.9 BCMP GPA, 27 MCAT (10P,6V,11B) and from Texas.

I applied to all the schools in texas and about 40 schools from out of state.

I finished most secondary by mid october and still I haven't gotten any interviews yet.

I am starting to worry. I think it's my verbal score that's keeping me from getting interviews.

My question is if I don't get in this cycle. What should I do to improve my application for next year? I know I don't want to retake the MCAT because I took it 3 times already. I am asian and English is my second language. I know I will not improve on verbal.

April 2005 6P 5V 9B 20J
August 2005 9P 6V 7B 22L
August 2006 10P 6V 11B 27L

Should I do a post bacc? (but I have taken most upper level science courses and did well on them)


Thanks for reading my post and waiting for advices,
Kevin

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Well, the problem isn't your GPA so there is little point in doing a post-bacc. Stating the obvious, the problem is your Verbal MCAT score. Did you apply to DO schools? If you really don't think you can improve on the Verbal score, DO may be your best shot.
 
I only applied to MD schools.
 
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Many people get admitted with an MCAT like yours. Try applying to many schools (+25) and to schools of varying competitiveness. Also look at DO schools. Eventually some will look past the 6 and will be interested in seeing the rest of you, i.e., offer you an interview.
 
Have you explained the verbal score in some way in your application? That may one to get people to look past it. Also, I would make sure that your essays are extremely strong to show that you can write and just that time pressured english is your problem, not actually the use of the language.
 
Have you tried an MCAT prep course? I know that english is your second language, but you can probably improve with practice. If I am guessing right, I would think that your problem is speed and not content. If you do not have time to take a course, I used a kaplan verbal book and I improved 3 points.

The problem with low MCAT scores is that it makes schools wonder if you can pass the USMLEs. They can see that one can perform well in school, but passing med school classes will not matter if one fails the boards.

I would remain hopeful for this year, because you sound like a good student with a passion for medicine. If it does not work out for you this year, I think your best bet is to improve your verbal score even if it sounds impossible! I bet you can do it!!!

Best of Luck!
 
Hello everyone,

Here's my situation.

I have 3.67 Overall from B.S in Computer Science, 3.9 BCMP GPA, 27 MCAT (10P,6V,11B) and from Texas.

I applied to all the schools in texas and about 40 schools from out of state.

I finished most secondary by mid october and still I haven't gotten any interviews yet.

I am starting to worry. I think it's my verbal score that's keeping me from getting interviews.

My question is if I don't get in this cycle. What should I do to improve my application for next year? I know I don't want to retake the MCAT because I took it 3 times already. I am asian and English is my second language. I know I will not improve on verbal.

April 2005 6P 5V 9B 20J
August 2005 9P 6V 7B 22L
August 2006 10P 6V 11B 27L

Should I do a post bacc? (but I have taken most upper level science courses and did well on them)


Thanks for reading my post and waiting for advices,
Kevin


take the mcat again. it's possible to improve....i did it.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

If I don't get in this year, I guess I will try my best to do better on verbal
for the fourth time. I don't have a choice but to retake.

Kevin
 
Here's a question for you -- why is your verbal score so low? Are you not a native English speaker? Perhaps it may be beneficial as well to take an English or literature class at a local university, or perhaps join a book club that forces you to improve your critical reading. Just a suggestion...
 
If verbal is a huge problem, try reading on a regular basis. Read New York Times or Wall Street Journal (or both), Times, Newsweek etc. Anything that will increase your reading abilities. Also, get ExamKrackers' verbal book (the big one) and do practice problems from it every night. Verbal is very hard to get up but it is doable. You just need to read, read, read and do practice sets day in and day out.
 
KV81, you seriously improved taking it a 3rd time. I also could understand growing up asian myself. However, you can apply to DO schools instead of spending 1 year of reapplying...well take that back...some schools are willing to take the January MCAT...so if you don't mind studying for 3 weeks, go for it. Otherwise, submit your primary AACOMAS app and fill out secondaries ASAP.

My friend who graduated from USC and is in residency in NY asked me last year:
How are your personal statements? Did you get it reviewed by your professors and a physician? Does it sound like you are truly sincere on your purpose? The other end can be that you can be too passionate in the use of your words and it may seem quite obsessive or too extreme for the likes of a doctor.


Post-bach is also an option, that is, if you don't mind spending lots of $$ to repeat classes. Many schools guarantee interviews coming from Post-bach programs, so it is up to you.

The questions boil down to:
How much do you really want it?
Are you willing to invest more time in getting your doctorate degree?
Are you willing to invest more $$ to get it?
Did you double or triple check your essays before sending them out?

Hope these things help. Good luck
 
I know I don't want to retake the MCAT because I took it 3 times already. I am asian and English is my second language. I know I will not improve on verbal.

Kevin,

You sound very hard working - which is great. I think you just may need another approach.

For starters, get, "I'm Asian, so I can't improve my verbal" OUT of your HEAD! Seriously, negative thoughts can destroy progress.

Secondly, you should try the following:
- Get some good books on speed reading (can get from amazon.com). There are definite ways to improve your speed & comprehension. You need to start by measuring where you are at right now, and then where you want to be.
- Set a goal to read EVERY DAY. Perhaps have 3, 1 hour sessions and monitor your progress. Rem to practice the techniques of speed reading.
- Start to build both your vocabulary and general knowledge. This REALLY helps with getting through the passages faster and with better comprehension. There are TONS of vocabulary building programs. I like the CD set published by the Princeton Review. You can improve your working knowledge of words VERY VERY quickly.
- Try and going to things like good Art museums and read about different artists, the era in which they did their work, and critiques. Do you understand the fine points? Again, this is part of building your general knowledge base.
- Read good papers like the NY Times, WSJ, Economist, Cell Magazine, etc to also build your general knowlege base. Stay away from fiction...you have too many other better things you can be reading.
- GET ALL THE LSAT released exams and practice the verbal sections. They are harder than the MCAT verbal section.
- Role model. Find out others who have overcome their reading issues, and do what they do. Learn from other people's success/failures.

Dude, THIS IS a VERY wise investment on your end no matter what you chose to do in life. Esp for medicine. Think of this like a blessing in disguise. It's your chance to improve your marks in med school, the USMLE, and every freaking test you'll ever take. Plus it will make your life a lot more enjoyable.

Lastly, by doing this, you will probably also increase your science (and writing) scores as an added benefit.

Taking a literature course sounds like a waste of time and money dude. It's not really a focused effort to improve your reading.

I hope this helps.
 
KevinVo,
It sounds like you're Vietnamese, just like me. I came here several years ago without ANY English. And Yes, the only way to improve Verbal is PRACTICE and PRACTICE. I understand our struggles in learning English, but if you're really want to be an MD, keep PRACTICE and you'll make it.
My first MCAT was 20 ( VB = 3), but I finally made it to 8. I was accepted to MSU MD yesterday, along with other schools. It may take sometimes, but in the end, it's worth.
Keep trying and NEVER give up.
 
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NAh... The problem here is not your GPA or MCAT score!!! I am from Texas and I do research at the medical school in San Antonio, and let me tell you, there's students here with lower MCAT score and defenately lower GPA's!!! YOUR problem is that you applied too late! Even tho there is still some interviews going on, most TX schools have already chosen about 80% of their students. I dont think you need to retake the MCAT, ofcourse, doing better on Verbal would be tremendous, but I dont think you need to!!! Next year make sure you send in the primary application the first week is available!!!! Good LUCK!
 
Research the schools you apply to very carefully. there are DO schools out there with minimum scores too... and they're climbing. Minimums of 7 in each section are not uncommon - and some MD schools have minimums of 8 in each section.

I'd call the deans of the schools you're interested in for advice.
 
I think you can do it. Taking the MCAT a fourth time isnt a big deal. I was worried also. But the schools looked past my 3 previous mcat scores (28,26,28), and looked at the new one 34!!! Verbal was my problem too. Like you I also grew up mostly in another country (outside North America). but i broke the magical 9 barrier.

I know its tough....but look at me now...same GPA as you, 34 (9 on verbal) and have 9 MD interviews.

I think you would have gotten at least couple interviews if you applied early (esp OOS interviews) ...but if you planning on applying again...might as well take the MCAT again. Because I know you can IMPROVE.

so here is my advice. Take the MCAT in APRIL, and apply in June...acceptance in Oct! ya! Go for it dude!
 
NAh... The problem here is not your GPA or MCAT score!!! I am from Texas and I do research at the medical school in San Antonio, and let me tell you, there's students here with lower MCAT score and defenately lower GPA's!!! YOUR problem is that you applied too late! Even tho there is still some interviews going on, most TX schools have already chosen about 80% of their students. I dont think you need to retake the MCAT, ofcourse, doing better on Verbal would be tremendous, but I dont think you need to!!! Next year make sure you send in the primary application the first week is available!!!! Good LUCK!

Thanks Super21

wow even with 6 in verbal?

I think you maybe right. Because I wasn't sure how I did on the August 2006 mcat, i applied late..my TMDSAS was complete on 9-20-2006.

Are you a med student there? what was your stats and when did you applied if you don't mind.

So what would you advise me to do? Just turn in the application super early?
I'm thinking of doing a post-bac where i take classes with med-student
to show that I'm ready for medical school. You think this is a good idea or waste of time because I have high science GPA 3.9 for AMCAS, but a 3.67 science GPA for TMDSAS because TMDSAS included my Computer Science courses in the science GPA calculation. This really blow my science GPA :mad:

And maybe I shouldn't retake the MCAT because I might go down on other 2 sections.

Thanks
Kevin
 
I think you should concentrate on getting your BS and PS UP by couple points. and if you can get a 7 or 8 in verbal thats great. The magic number is 30.

but definitely retake in april apply in june everywhere....

sure you can get interviews with a 28...but IMO why take that chance? Take the MCAT get a high mark...its possible.
 
I finished most secondary by mid october and still I haven't gotten any interviews yet.

In Texas, I believe your problem was not so much with your MCAT but the late application. My friend and I had equal stats. My application had problems and was held up until late September, my friend's went out in June. I got one interview, she got five. Some of my applications never even made it to review!

P.S. Exam Krakers was a life saver for me on the Verbal section. I went from 6-8's on the retired tests an 11 on the real thing.
 
In Texas, I believe your problem was not so much with your MCAT but the late application. My friend and I had equal stats. My application had problems and was held up until late September, my friend's went out in June. I got one interview, she got five. Some of my applications never even made it to review!

P.S. Exam Krakers was a life saver for me on the Verbal section. I went from 6-8's on the retired tests an 11 on the real thing.

Wow that's a major improvement. I think applying late and the 6 in verbal keep me from getting interviews.

What was your stats if you don't mind. also what was your friend's stats with 5 interviews?

Thanks,
Kevin
 
Your MCAT is the problem-- it is the 6 in verbal. Most studies report the strongest correlation with board scores and the verbal on the MCAT.

I would take the MCAT again. Try Examkrackers' verbal book.
 
Of all the scores that improved the most, it was my verbal. I jumped from an 8 to a 12 and got in....after try number 4. :)
 
To the OP, I think you are in a position to really change your life, not just your MCAT scores and med school prospects. My mother has been teaching English as a second language for 50 years, so I have some really strong opinions here. Imagine having no language limitations - imagine being funny, eloquent, convincing. Imagine having no hesitation to speak up when you're the only Asian in a room full of loud white guys. Imagine conquering this thing - imagine being able to talk about THAT accomplishment in a med school interview!

You're looking at one crystal clear liability (lack of mastery of English) against a crystal clear and LONG list of assets (GPA, obvious intelligence, immigrant background, persistence). Take away this one liability and there's nothing you can't do. If you go into software, for instance, language skills are the difference between being a decision maker and a decision follower. In medicine, I think language skills are the difference between being the doctor your patients recommend to others, and the doctor whose name people can't remember.

Improving your English means getting off the premed grid. There isn't an academic solution to this problem. Here are 5 ideas, off the top of my head, to dramatically improve your mastery of all the stupid subtleties and exceptions and nuances of English.

1. Live with native English speakers who are quite a bit older than you. Ideally, find an English professor, actor, speech pathologist. Better yet, move to a midwestern city with low immigrant numbers, like St. Paul. Even better: Canada. Get away from the loving arms of your family and friends where it's really comfortable to speak natively when you're tired at the end of the day. (You don't have to give up your Texas residency.)

2. Get a job, any job, where you need to talk to lots of native English speakers all day long. McDonald's is a good example, but you could work at a Kinko's, in a retirement home, at a sports club, at a restaurant, just about anywhere that older born-in-Americans are found. Serve customers who will correct your pronunciation. The less polite your customers, the better. Your actual job at this "job" is to work on your English.

3. Get into theatre. Join an improv group. Do standup comedy. Do an activity where English verbal communication is all there is, a couple nights a week, for a year if you can. A book club would be great, and you'd meet chicks too. By the way, accented perfect English is way sexy - ask anybody.

4. Volunteer at a tutoring center or as a grader, where your focus is reading other people's writing. Learn the intricacies of evaluating writing style and exposition. You'll be amazed how easy it is to judge whether the writer is effective or not. At my school, we have a multicultural center where free tutoring is offered all day long, where you could effectively hang out in the writing center and anybody who wants help will be happy to get YOUR help, even though it's not your strongest subject.

5. Get an English tutor and read one classic English novel per week, or one NY Times editorial page per week. Maybe every two weeks. The tutor can grill you about what you've read, and make you form and justify opinions about what you've read.

So the overall plan that I'd recommend for you is to stop playing premed for one or two years, just to work on your English full time. You can probably support yourself during this time, and you can assume you'll mature and gain confidence and probably have a really good time. Apply to med school again midway through, without retaking the MCAT, because the improvement in your essay and the new story you'll tell may be compelling enough. Then, if necessary, beef up on science again and retake the MCAT. I see this as kind of an Asian immigrant version of the American-born Peace Corps strategy.

I'm in no way trying to imply that English is better, or that this is fair, or anything like that. Your cultural identity is very important, and I'm not suggesting that you abandon or deprioritize it. Mastering English could be the hardest thing you ever do: probably harder than getting into med school, and certainly harder than quitting smoking or losing weight (which Americans typically can't do). It's considerably more difficult to master a 2nd language in adulthood.

But what if you could, and did? Imagine.

Best of luck to you.
 
To the OP, I think you are in a position to really change your life, not just your MCAT scores and med school prospects. My mother has been teaching English as a second language for 50 years, so I have some really strong opinions here. Imagine having no language limitations - imagine being funny, eloquent, convincing. Imagine having no hesitation to speak up when you're the only Asian in a room full of loud white guys. Imagine conquering this thing - imagine being able to talk about THAT accomplishment in a med school interview!

You're looking at one crystal clear liability (lack of mastery of English) against a crystal clear and LONG list of assets (GPA, obvious intelligence, immigrant background, persistence). Take away this one liability and there's nothing you can't do. If you go into software, for instance, language skills are the difference between being a decision maker and a decision follower. In medicine, I think language skills are the difference between being the doctor your patients recommend to others, and the doctor whose name people can't remember.

Improving your English means getting off the premed grid. There isn't an academic solution to this problem. Here are 5 ideas, off the top of my head, to dramatically improve your mastery of all the stupid subtleties and exceptions and nuances of English.

1. Live with native English speakers who are quite a bit older than you. Ideally, find an English professor, actor, speech pathologist. Better yet, move to a midwestern city with low immigrant numbers, like St. Paul. Even better: Canada. Get away from the loving arms of your family and friends where it's really comfortable to speak natively when you're tired at the end of the day. (You don't have to give up your Texas residency.)

2. Get a job, any job, where you need to talk to lots of native English speakers all day long. McDonald's is a good example, but you could work at a Kinko's, in a retirement home, at a sports club, at a restaurant, just about anywhere that older born-in-Americans are found. Serve customers who will correct your pronunciation. The less polite your customers, the better. Your actual job at this "job" is to work on your English.

3. Get into theatre. Join an improv group. Do standup comedy. Do an activity where English verbal communication is all there is, a couple nights a week, for a year if you can. A book club would be great, and you'd meet chicks too. By the way, accented perfect English is way sexy - ask anybody.

4. Volunteer at a tutoring center or as a grader, where your focus is reading other people's writing. Learn the intricacies of evaluating writing style and exposition. You'll be amazed how easy it is to judge whether the writer is effective or not. At my school, we have a multicultural center where free tutoring is offered all day long, where you could effectively hang out in the writing center and anybody who wants help will be happy to get YOUR help, even though it's not your strongest subject.

5. Get an English tutor and read one classic English novel per week, or one NY Times editorial page per week. Maybe every two weeks. The tutor can grill you about what you've read, and make you form and justify opinions about what you've read.

So the overall plan that I'd recommend for you is to stop playing premed for one or two years, just to work on your English full time. You can probably support yourself during this time, and you can assume you'll mature and gain confidence and probably have a really good time. Apply to med school again midway through, without retaking the MCAT, because the improvement in your essay and the new story you'll tell may be compelling enough. Then, if necessary, beef up on science again and retake the MCAT. I see this as kind of an Asian immigrant version of the American-born Peace Corps strategy.

I'm in no way trying to imply that English is better, or that this is fair, or anything like that. Your cultural identity is very important, and I'm not suggesting that you abandon or deprioritize it. Mastering English could be the hardest thing you ever do: probably harder than getting into med school, and certainly harder than quitting smoking or losing weight (which Americans typically can't do). It's considerably more difficult to master a 2nd language in adulthood.

But what if you could, and did? Imagine.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks for taking the time to write this long post.

Recently I have been invited to Rush Medical College for an interview.

I'm so excited. I will try my best to impress them at the interview.

And if I don't get in this time, I guess I will follow your advice to

improve my English.

Thanks again,
Kevin
 
I improved my verbal 3 points from 6 to 9 over the year. I read classical literature, NY Times and New Yorker. I came to the US when I was 19 yo with no english at all, now I am 25. I was offered 3 interview 1 DO and 2 MDs. I gave up MDs for DO because I fell in love with a school. I am a proud member of NYCOm class of 2011 :) My MCAT (9,9,9P) I took it 3 times because I could not make more than 6 on verbal.
 
Kevin Vo,
When were u complete?
 
I completed most secondary by late October and early Nov because I submitted
the AMCAS after the August mcat result came out.
 
I completed most secondary by late October and early Nov because I submitted
the AMCAS after the August mcat result came out.

how did u get the invite from RUSH? Email or phone call?
 
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