3.9 gpa, 520 mcat, top 5 undergrad. Help with school list?

[Lemonlime98]

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[Trollest]

If you are looking to get married. You can pm me.. but otherwise, you look great (stats wise).

@Goro @gyngyn @Faha

 

[ObjectiveBoba]

I've spent around 8-10 hrs/wk in my lab and the last two summers in lab, but I wish I could go back in time and take biochemistry lab class early so I could skip all the useless time I spent in research lab floundering around and half-shadowing a postdoc to learn techniques.

This is actually an enormous amount of research time for nothing to show for it. 8 hours a week for 3.5 years during school time and 2 summers (of presumably full-time work) is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 hours? Have any of your postdocs included you on their posters/presentations? No output at all would be concerning for MD/PhD programs, although this might be mitigated by your PI giving you an excellent letter stating a publication is forth coming.

Since you're applying MD as well, definitely get those volunteering/shadowing hours up, even if you have to give up some research time. In the next 6 months, your research in a new lab probably won't end up being productive anyway (getting used to the new lab members/any new lab techniques).

Otherwise, your stats are fantastic and should get you a few interviews in the T20s. One concern is you lack a strong hook, but your stats should make you appealing to at least a few of the stat ****** : )

 

[Lemonlime98]

@ObjectiveBoba i mistyped I would have 2.5 yrs of research by time of application. And 2 years so far. One reason why I’ve been so unproductive in lab is that my first postdoc mentor left due to personal issues after a year and I had to switch mentors. I’ve always been helping out with several projects of my mentors at once, which prevents me with getting too far on any one. No posters or presentations because in the lab the post docs only focus on submitting to tippy top journals and preparing for publications takes quite a bit of time. This is fairly common in the department labs: undergrads getting little concrete pubs or posters out. I’m also at fault for not advocating for myself and not focusing more on research during my time, so I’m not blaming my lab, which has been supportive in teaching me.

When you said I might have a shot for top 20s, did you mean for md or for mdphd as well? Also, what is the correlation between interviews and actual acceptance?

Thank you for your advice! I’ll definitely get the hours up. Happy New Year’s!

 

[PursuingHappy]

I'm applying MD/PhD right now. For the MD/PhD applications, look into schools that are strong in your research area of interest. Make sure that there are at least 5 labs that you would be interested in rotating in. It's a lot, but you never know if and when you will want to switch mentors in case things don't work out. Since you have a strong math background, I suggest looking into the Harvard/MIT HST program. I think the program aligns well with your math/physical science background. USC/CalTech might be another program of interest. Can you expand more on your research interests to get a better idea of what programs might be strong in your area?

Also, 30 is too much. I applied to 28 and got 20 interviews. This process is expensive and exhausting, especially if you are still in school. I would say 20 - 25 is a good amount. You don't want to empty your bank account or get burned out. If you have financial support, then I guess it's fine but be aware that you may get lots of interviews. A lot a programs will also switch to MD only if u don't make the cut for MD/PhD so take that into consideration.

Lastly, the lack of productivity might raise a few eyebrows. Is there anyway you can at least get a poster presentation at a major conference? I personally funded my own trip to London for a conference because I knew it would be a great experience. If funding is an issue, look into travel awards. Write a strong PS, activities section, and have a good narrative of why both degrees and you should be successful. Good luck!

 

[PursuingHappy]

@Lucca might be of help as well in terms of deciding if MD/PHD or MD only is right for you.

 

[jarednogeek]

Your research not producing anything for 2.5 years and 2000 hours will hinder getting into top md/PhD. Your lack of EC’s will hinder top MD programs. Get a total 200 hours of clinical (hospice, ER) and 200 hours of non clinical (underserved)and 50 shadowing hours. See if you’ve been included on a poster or something, they don’t want excuses they want published papers. Also no hobbies?? Just about Every interview I was at they asked me about my hobbies so try to get a life outside of school.

 

[Lemonlime98]

@jarednogeek would I be ok for top MD-only programs? No posters, mentor doesn’t do posters just pubs I think. If you were me, would you take a gap year or bite the bullet and apply broadly? Also, I technically have nonclinical hours with the educational nonprofit club by just organizing but that’s not working directly with the underserved? Would I definitely need to do a working with underserved activity (e.g. soup kitchen)? I do creative writing and art as hobbies and the rest of the time I just gym and stuff lol. Thanks for being real I needed some brutal honesty. And also damn 200 hrs of both volunteering? Rip free time next semester haha.

 

[Lemonlime98]

@PursuingHappy thanks for poster rec but I don’t feel like I’ve done enough on any particular project to get like a good conclusion for a poster. Apps are funded by family so I can apply broadly just hoping to get somewhere :’)

 

[ObjectiveBoba]

@ObjectiveBobaThis is fairly common in the department labs: undergrads getting little concrete pubs or posters out. I’m also at fault for not advocating for myself and not focusing more on research during my time, so I’m not blaming my lab, which has been supportive in teaching me.

When you said I might have a shot for top 20s, did you mean for md or for mdphd as well? Also, what is the correlation between interviews and actual acceptance?

Thank you for your advice! I’ll definitely get the hours up. Happy New Year’s!

Happy New Year's to you as well!

I also attend a top 5 and most of my friends with similar stats/ECs as you received 3 to 4 interviews from T20 MD programs (although, it's difficult to compare ECs, especially on SDN). I feel adcoms give some slack in terms of hours to juniors applying to medical school, even if they don't say so, but I would still cover all the bases by getting more shadowing and clinical/non-clinical volunteering. 50 hours of shadowing and 100 hours of clinical volunteering should be fine. The usual conversion rate is 1 acceptance for every 3 interviews.

Of the ones I know who got into top MD/PhD programs, most of them had similar stats (maybe slightly higher MCAT) but with pub(s)/thesis or conference presentation(s). I know of one who got into a T10 without any research output aside from a thesis, but I feel that's more the exception to the norm than the norm. I'm sure other people with more MD/PhD experience can give better advice. For better or worse, for top MD/PhD programs, what they care about is (1) Research output and (2) MCAT. You're fine with (2), just missing a bit in 1. If you're set on applying to top programs, you might want to think about taking a research gap year (which is pretty common).

 

[Goro]

Your research not producing anything for 2.5 years and 2000 hours will hinder getting into top md/PhD. Your lack of EC’s will hinder top MD programs. Get a total 200 hours of clinical (hospice, ER) and 200 hours of non clinical (underserved)and 50 shadowing hours. See if you’ve been included on a poster or something, they don’t want excuses they want published papers. Also no hobbies?? Just about Every interview I was at they asked me about my hobbies so try to get a life outside of school.

OP, follow this advice to the letter.

For service to others, got off campus and out of your comfort zone. Your app so far screams "lab rat".

For MD programs only, here is what I recommend:
NYU
Vanderbilt
WashU
Yale
JHU
Northwestern
U Chicago
U Penn
Columbia
Duke
Harvard
Sinai
Cornell
Stanford
U MI
U VA
BU
Case
Mayo
Pitt
Hofstra
Ohio State
U Cincy
USC/Keck
USF Morsani
Albert Einstein
Dartmouth
Emory
Rochester
Jefferson
Miami
U IA
U VM
Western MI
Your state school(s)

 

[PursuingHappy]

@PursuingHappy thanks for poster rec but I don’t feel like I’ve done enough on any particular project to get like a good conclusion for a poster. Apps are funded by family so I can apply broadly just hoping to get somewhere :’)

Oh sorry. Didn't see the post above mine. That sucks.

But I agree with the poster above, ObjectiveBoba. A research gap year may be good for you to get some research posters or pubs. I think schools like seeing that you can communicate your research well, both via oral and written means. At all of the T20 schools I interviewed at, at least half of the applicants took a gap year to conduct full time research. This may even help you decide if you would rather do MD only or MD/PhD.

Edit: A gap year will also allow you to increase those clinical and non-clinical volunteering hours.

Happy New Year!

 

[Lemonlime98]

@Goro Thank you so much for the comprehensive list! This is very helpful for me to build upon. May I ask what criteria you used? The top half is obvious as they are reaches/top 20's, but I've not heard much about many of the latter half schools (am curious about why them over similarly ranked schools). Also, you said this list is for MD only. Do you recommend that I apply MD over MD-PhD?
I will definitely spend a LOT of time this coming semester volunteering in the hospital. I think I will look at this prison literacy program where you help an inmate get their GED, and hopefully commit to that this semester. Happy New Year!

@PursuingHappy there are a few personal reasons why I would prefer not to take a gap year :/ but I am definitely thinking more seriously about it as a possibility as I realize how screwed I really am for apps hahahaha. Thanks again!

 

[Goro]

@Goro Thank you so much for the comprehensive list! This is very helpful for me to build upon. May I ask what criteria you used? The top half is obvious as they are reaches/top 20's, but I've not heard much about many of the latter half schools (am curious about why them over similarly ranked schools). Also, you said this list is for MD only. Do you recommend that I apply MD over MD-PhD?
I will definitely spend a LOT of time this coming semester volunteering in the hospital. I think I will look at this prison literacy program where you help an inmate get their GED, and hopefully commit to that this semester. Happy New Year!

@PursuingHappy there are a few personal reasons why I would prefer not to take a gap year :/ but I am definitely thinking more seriously about it as a possibility as I realize how screwed I really am for apps hahahaha. Thanks again!

As MD/PhD is never assured, and my only impression is that one has to be a superstar for these programs, I'm being conservative and offering you an MD list only.

Your stats are at or above 50th %ile for all of them, therefore, you competitive for them. I consider the Keck and Einstein class schools to be your "safeties", along with your state school(s).

Based upon feedback from successful SDNers who got into really Top Schools, they have 100s, if not even 1000s of hours of clinical experience and/or service. Go big, or go home.

 

[jarednogeek]

@jarednogeek would I be ok for top MD-only programs? No posters, mentor doesn’t do posters just pubs I think. If you were me, would you take a gap year or bite the bullet and apply broadly? Also, I technically have nonclinical hours with the educational nonprofit club by just organizing but that’s not working directly with the underserved? Would I definitely need to do a working with underserved activity (e.g. soup kitchen)? I do creative writing and art as hobbies and the rest of the time I just gym and stuff lol. Thanks for being real I needed some brutal honesty. And also damn 200 hrs of both volunteering? Rip free time next semester haha.

I would suggest apply to some top 20’s but also applying broadly as well. You could have success at these programs but it definitely is not guaranteed. Compared to the avg T20 matriculates your EC’s are weak but your stats are good. If you only want to attend T20 then maybe take a gap year and improve your app. If you’re okay ending up at a mid tier with the possibility of a T20 program then improve your EC’s next semester so you’re more well rounded. You need more direct patient encounters and time with the underserved. I recommend a hospice and soup kitchen. 200 is the total of each I recommend before applying. And 50 hours of shadowing. Apply to a few MD/PHDs too and just see what happens, nothing is guaranteed in this process and keep that in mind. Only applying T20 is a recipe for another cycle.

 

[faerie62]

Imo you should first figure out whether you want to do MD or MD-PhD because you're capable of either, but the ways in which you'd strengthen your application are different. As others have said for MD you need more direct clinical experience and service. For MD-PhD your focus should be on research productivity (but also don't quit volunteering). If you absolutely don't want a gap year, I think MD-PhD is feasible this cycle, depending on how the next 6 months shape up.
There are people who apply for MD and MD-PhD concurrently, but they are at somewhat of a disadvantage imo. People will ask you at interviews why you applied to both, you cannot really write a personal statement that addresses your goals in research, and the recommenders that you would select for the 2 could be different. And at the end of the day they are quite different career paths.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Go big, or go home.

Peace Corps or Teach for America - or maybe Americorps. That would make her application look much better - although a gap year doing research and volunteering on the side would beef up her hours and allow her to get some publications as well. As it is, OP might be competitive at many schools, even given the rather lackluster volunteering.

 

[Lemonlime98]

I'm applying MD/PhD right now. For the MD/PhD applications, look into schools that are strong in your research area of interest. Make sure that there are at least 5 labs that you would be interested in rotating in. It's a lot, but you never know if and when you will want to switch mentors in case things don't work out. Since you have a strong math background, I suggest looking into the Harvard/MIT HST program. I think the program aligns well with your math/physical science background. USC/CalTech might be another program of interest. Can you expand more on your research interests to get a better idea of what programs might be strong in your area?

Also, 30 is too much. I applied to 28 and got 20 interviews. This process is expensive and exhausting, especially if you are still in school. I would say 20 - 25 is a good amount. You don't want to empty your bank account or get burned out. If you have financial support, then I guess it's fine but be aware that you may get lots of interviews. A lot a programs will also switch to MD only if u don't make the cut for MD/PhD so take that into consideration.

Lastly, the lack of productivity might raise a few eyebrows. Is there anyway you can at least get a poster presentation at a major conference? I personally funded my own trip to London for a conference because I knew it would be a great experience. If funding is an issue, look into travel awards. Write a strong PS, activities section, and have a good narrative of why both degrees and you should be successful. Good luck!

Quick question...would applying mdphd and getting rejected hurt chances for md? Thanks

 

[PursuingHappy]

Quick question...would applying mdphd and getting rejected hurt chances for md? Thanks

Honestly not sure. I only applied MD/PhD. At most places, you can apply both.