3.99 GPA, 28M :(... Should I retake MCAT? Please help

[obgyny]

EDIT: I applied June 2010.

Update: I went ahead and applied with my 28M MCAT score. Got 3 interview invites: UC Davis, UCI, and GWU... and was accepted to UCI!! (my top choice and alma mater!). Obviously, things might have been easier for me if I retook the MCAT and I might have gotten more invites/acceptances. But I just wanted to give a little hope to other people in my situation and show that numbers aren't everything! I knew it was going to be risky with my MCAT score, but I'm glad I applied .

See my MDapps for stats and ECs: http://mdapplicants.com/profile.php?id=18708

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[BrainBuff]

You have a better chance at an out of state private. Your high GPA wont look very good with so many CC courses. Your ECs are great and that may compensate some for your academic weakness. Then again, adcoms may feel that your MCAT compares to your academic course work and that you are not very academically strong.

I have a feeling that your MCAT may not go much higher with a retake, and if that is the case, a repeat could weaken your application further...I would try to make a strong case about being financially disadvantaged and having to go to a CC for that reason...

 

[obgyny]

Catalystik, any thoughts? You always seem to give out good advice to others in the forum

Thanks

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I personally believe retaking would make your life easier. But, a 4.0/28 might imply a easy background. Apply early and smartly, apply to DO though, I think everyone should apply to DO schools unless they have a 4.0/35

 

[obgyny]

I personally believe retaking would make your life easier. But, a 4.0/28 might imply a easy background. Apply early and smartly, apply to DO though, I think everyone should apply to DO schools unless they have a 4.0/35

Yeah, but the problem is that if I retake, I won't really be able to apply early. I probably can't get a seat until July, then scores won't release until August. The other issue is that I've heard most DO schools require a LOR from a DO... which I don't have. I have also never shadowed a DO.

I understand how adcomms could think that my 3.99 GPA was easy, given I went to CC for a few years before UCI. But the thing is, I took gchem 6 years ago, and took physics 5 years ago... which is why it is my weak spot, not because I took it at a community college. I hardly studied for the bio section because I consistently was scoring 11-12 on the practice exams. I put almost all my focus on the PS section, raising it from a 5 to a 9-10. I usually score 10's on verbal.

At UCI, I took the ochem series and my schedule was essentially nothing but upper div sci classes. My UC gpa was 3.982 (summa cum laude, top 1% in my class), so doesn't that show that I can handle a difficult curriculum? I only got 2 A-'s and quite a few A+s (maybe 8 A+s or so). I hate to think that my MCAT score completely invalidates 5 years of hardwork (as shown by my GPA).

 

[Catalystik]

Other than lack of formal shadowing experience (only obliquely referred to), I think your ECs are terrific. That your high GPA carried through from the CC level to the university validates your ability to produce consistent great grades that adcomms are looking for. If you took no upper-level science at the uni, that would leave a question mark about how you'll do with a med school curriculum.

Yeah, an MCAT of 28 isn't terrific when you're a Californian, but you have the type of ECs that will help trump that, along with a great GPA. If you want to try to get into a California school, you're better off repeating the MCAT, but only if you think you can score at least three more points based on practice test results. Those applying with your stats through AMCAS for the last three years had a 74.1% of an acceptance:
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

Don't waste space explaining CC attendance. If someone cares enough to ask, you can explain. Considering your GPA, an extra year at the CC is not an issue.

I think you should discuss the care of your brother somewhere. It is a significant factor that shaped the choices yuou made during that time. It can be part of your PS, the subject of Secondary essays, or a listing under Other in the Experiences section. You decide where.

For LORs, ideally you'd have three letters from faculty who taught you, as schools want someone to attest to your academic prowess, and one from a PI. Some schools are a bit less specific, asking only for science faculty to write the letters, without specifying that they taught you. Many schools with huge classes make getting a professor letter impossible, so a TA will have to do. It's my opinion that a TA letter from someone who knows you well and supports you strongly is much better than one from a professor who doesn't know your name (I'm sure others will disagree). I'd go with 1,2,3, and 5b. Number 4 won't hurt, but is rarely asked for.

As you stand, your allo chances are best outside California, but CA isn't impossible. Get the shadowing done quickly before you submit. You have an ER doc, try to get a primary care doc and another specialty, too. Some DO schools want a DO letter, some take MD or DO, and others don't require a physician letter at all.

 

[obgyny]

Other than lack of formal shadowing experience (only obliquely referred to), I think your ECs are terrific. That your high GPA carried through from the CC level to the university validates your ability to produce consistent great grades that adcomms are looking for. If you took no upper-level science at the uni, that would leave a question mark about how you'll do with a med school curriculum.

Yeah, an MCAT of 28 isn't terrific when you're a Californian, but you have the type of ECs that will help trump that, along with a great GPA. If you want to try to get into a California school, you're better off repeating the MCAT, but only if you think you can score at least three more points based on practice test results. Those applying with your stats through AMCAS for the last three years had a 74.1% of an acceptance:
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

Don't waste space explaining CC attendance. If someone cares enough to ask, you can explain. Considering your GPA, an extra year at the CC is not an issue.

I think you should discuss the care of your brother somewhere. It is a significant factor that shaped the choices yuou made during that time. It can be part of your PS, the subject of Secondary essays, or a listing under Other in the Experiences section. You decide where.

For LORs, ideally you'd have three letters from faculty who taught you, as schools want someone to attest to your academic prowess, and one from a PI. Some schools are a bit less specific, asking only for science faculty to write the letters, without specifying that they taught you. Many schools with huge classes make getting a professor letter impossible, so a TA will have to do. It's my opinion that a TA letter from someone who knows you well and supports you strongly is much better than one from a professor who doesn't know your name (I'm sure others will disagree). I'd go with 1,2,3, and 5b. Number 4 won't hurt, but is rarely asked for.

As you stand, your allo chances are best outside California, but CA isn't impossible. Get the shadowing done quickly before you submit. You have an ER doc, try to get a primary care doc and another specialty, too. Some DO schools want a DO letter, some take MD or DO, and others don't require a physician letter at all.

Thank you so much for taking the time to evaluate my post!!! I just have a few more questions:

1. If I retake the MCAT, I probably won't have my scores until August, which would delay my application. Is the chance of getting a better score worth the delay in my application?

2. Again, let's say I retake the MCAT, but submit my application earlier so that it can be verified. Will medical schools evaluate my application before my second test score is available or put my application on hold until the second score is in? I'm not sure how that works...

3. In the experiences section, should I mention why I only had 35 hours at the free medical clinic I volunteered at? I actually enjoyed volunteering there, but since I had to get a full-time job, I had to quit. Or should I just emphasize what I did and what I learned from that experience?

 

[Catalystik]

1. Look at the chart I linked to and you'll see that your odds rise rapidly with additional increments in MCAT score, so much so that it would be worth the % decrease in chances with a later application, if you get a significantly better score. If your honest feeling is that you've already hit your score ceiling due to long ago prereqs, then don't torture yourself with a retake.

2. Submitting 6 weeks before the score comes back, but to only one school so verification is complete, will improve your timeline much better than waiting for the second score before you submit. Will schools evaluate your file before the second score is available? I'm sure schools vary in their approach. I've read that some schools will proceed with their consideration process if the score of current record exceeds their cut offs. Others wait. Many will send Secondaries because they don't screen until the Secondary is returned (wanna collect those hefty fees, don't you know). Others send Secondaries only to applicants they are seriously interested in.

3. A brief explanation is fine of why you stopped is fine.

 

[Stixman28]

Yeah, an MCAT of 28 isn't terrific when you're a Californian, but you have the type of ECs that will help trump that, along with a great GPA. If you want to try to get into a California school, you're better off repeating the MCAT, but only if you think you can score at least three more points based on practice test results. Those applying with your stats through AMCAS for the last three years had a 74.1% of an acceptance:
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

I feel like this is pretty watered down. You really don't have a shot at CA schools with that mcat. not everyone, but almost everyone has awesome EC's, and it's tough to have you stand out by them. Most important is getting through the initial computer cutoff.

I have two friends who both are ca residents, both had >30 mcat and >3.8 gpa, and neither received any ca acceptances (cept one who got in at loma linda).

If you really want ca, retake. submit in july right around when u take the mcat, that way it can be verified by the time your scores are coming out.

It's true though, you won't be getting in an early app any more.

 

[obgyny]

I feel like this is pretty watered down. You really don't have a shot at CA schools with that mcat. not everyone, but almost everyone has awesome EC's, and it's tough to have you stand out by them. Most important is getting through the initial computer cutoff.

I have two friends who both are ca residents, both had >30 mcat and >3.8 gpa, and neither received any ca acceptances (cept one who got in at loma linda).

If you really want ca, retake. submit in july right around when u take the mcat, that way it can be verified by the time your scores are coming out.

It's true though, you won't be getting in an early app any more.

I appreciate the honesty (and everyone's advice). I know a 28 probably isn't going to get me into any CA schools. Of course it would be nice to stay in CA, but I certainly would be more than willing to move anywhere in the US to go to medical school.

Out of curiosity, what would my chances be out of state with my current stats?

It seems I'm probably going to have to retake. When I wrote my post, I just received my score, so I wasn't feeling too hopeful. I think I can do better on the next test. I don't think I did nearly enough practice passages, since I had to spend virtually all my time on content review (since I don't remember most of it from 5-6 years ago). My only concern is trying to work on my application (ie PS, LORs, etc) while getting in studying for the MCAT in the next 2 months.

I have another question: when do secondaries tend to be due? I'm not sure I'll really be able to work on them until mid-July (after the MCAT). Would I still have enough time to complete them in time?

 

[anfleisch]

One thing I dont get is how your cGPA is lower than your BCMP. With a 3.992, you can't have more than maybe a single A- grade. It would have to be in a BCMP class since you don't have a 4.0 BCMP. Wouldn't you have less BCMP credits? Did you have something like an A- in a single credit BCMP class or something?

 

[obgyny]

One thing I dont get is how your cGPA is lower than your BCMP. With a 3.992, you can't have more than maybe a single A- grade. It would have to be in a BCMP class since you don't have a 4.0 BCMP. Wouldn't you have less BCMP credits? Did you have something like an A- in a single credit BCMP class or something?

I got an A- in a 4 unit non-BCPM class and an A- in a 2 unit BCPM class (it was a seminar), which is why my cGPA is a little less than my BCPM GPA.

 

[obgyny]

Catalystik,

What would you say my chances are realistically out-of-state? Any school suggestions that I would have a chance at?


It's difficult to pick from MSAR... seeing as my GPA is above all the averages. But I would be completely fine going to medical school out of state.

Although I haven't made any final decisions yet. It seems that retaking it so soon and then applying late in the cycle isn't a realistic choice for me. I'm considering either just applying with my stats now or waiting until the next cycle. The thing is that I'm already taking off 2 years before med school, so having to put it off yet another 2 years would be really hard to accept for me. Anyone else in a similar position? Any other advice?

 

[Catalystik]

Consider these for "fit".

With a 3.99/28, your LizzyM score=69 =[MCAT score + (cGPA X 10)] + 1
(School's score (using median acceptee stats) doesn't include the +1.)
(X%)=% matriculants that are from OOS. Some may prefer state ties.

69/Loma Linda (49%), Loyola (55%), RFU (53%), UKentucky (30%), Creighton (89%), Albany (62%), SUNY Downstate (18%) Jefferson (60%), MCW (~65%)
68/UIllinois (27%), Wayne (17%), Buffalo (29%), Toledo (34%), Drexel (71%), Temple (52%), Vermont (72%), VCU (44%),
67/GWU (96%), FIU (21%), Louisvll (25%), Tulane (83%), UNevada (24%), NYMC (67%), MUSC (22%), SCarolina (18%), EVMS (39%),
66/Rush (19%), Michigan State (26%),
65/Commonweath MC (PA) (29%)

Maybe also consider the two California DO schools, AZCOM, and the new Western branch opening in Oregon, CCOM, and PCOM.

 

[gravitywave]

the CC history is a non-issue. 3.98 in uppdiv sci classes proves to any adcom that you are ready. i assume you got >8 bio credits and >16 chem credits at the UC, the physics is irrelevant, esp. with a decent PS score on the MCAT.

it doesn't sound like you got a chance to really prep for MCAT the way you needed to. the advice above about bumping your score to 30+ is dead on. i believe that if you retake by July 16th, improve by at least 3 points, and then use these forums to access the secondary essay prompts before the time you start getting them in late August, then you'll be fine. even for MD, maybe even for UCs (as stated above, there are no guarantees for anyone at UC's)

 

[obgyny]

I really appreciate all the advice! After a lot of thought, I've decided to go ahead and apply with my current stats. I'd love to get some feedback on my school selection. Here's a rough draft list: (I know there are some reach schools, such as some of the UCs, but I figure I'd try some of them). Please feel free to make any suggestions (add/remove schools). My stats/EC's are are listed in the very 1st post of this thread.

University of California--Davis
University of California--Irvine
University of California--Los Angeles
University of California--San Francisco
University of Southern California
George Washington University
Loyola University Chicago
Rosalind Franklin University
Boston University
Tufts University
Oakland University William Beaumont School of Medicine
Mayo Medical School
Creighton University
Albany Medical College
New York Medical College
New York University
SUNY--Upstate
Wake Forest University
University of Toledo
Oregon Health & Science University
Drexel University
Jefferson Medical College
Pennsylvania State University
Temple University
The Commonwealth Medical College
Meharry Medical College
University of Vermont
Virginia Commonwealth University
Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine
University of Washington (I know they have a strong in-state preference, but I fell in love with this school, my uncle used to live in Seattle).
West Virginia University
Medical College of Wisconsin

 

[obgyny]

^^^bump

 

[indianjatt]

You're not adding DOs? I would add them just in case things don't work out.

 

[obgyny]

You're not adding DOs? I would add them just in case things don't work out.

No, I haven't done any DO shadowing nor do I have any LORs from DOs, so I don't think I would have a good chance at DO schools .

 

[NotAsking4Much]

As a fellow Cali resident and one who interviewed at many of the Cali schools, I think you should def retake the MCAT. It's not hard at all to improve in your range and a 28 to a 31 or even a 30 makes a world of difference. Hate to say it but it is a numbers game, esp for Cali schools where they screen for secondaries.

That being said, I don't think you need to apply to DO schools, esp if you don't have a LOR.

 

[obgyny]

As a fellow Cali resident and one who interviewed at many of the Cali schools, I think you should def retake the MCAT. It's not hard at all to improve in your range and a 28 to a 31 or even a 30 makes a world of difference. Hate to say it but it is a numbers game, esp for Cali schools where they screen for secondaries.

That being said, I don't think you need to apply to DO schools, esp if you don't have a LOR.

I appreciate the advice, but a retake really isn't too feasible for my situation. As I've said, I would be perfectly happy going to a medical school outside California. I know my chances at getting into a Cali school aren't great at all... they'll be my "reach" schools. So I'm applying to a lot of places outside Cali.

That being said, can anyone critique my list of schools?

University of California--Davis
University of California--Irvine
University of California--Los Angeles
University of California--San Francisco
University of Southern California
George Washington University
Loyola University Chicago
Rosalind Franklin University
Boston University
Tufts University
Oakland University William Beaumont School of Medicine
Mayo Medical School
Creighton University
Albany Medical College
New York Medical College
New York University
SUNY--Upstate
Wake Forest University
University of Toledo
Oregon Health & Science University
Drexel University
Jefferson Medical College
Pennsylvania State University
Temple University
The Commonwealth Medical College
Meharry Medical College
University of Vermont
Virginia Commonwealth University
Virginia Tech Carilion School of Medicine
University of Washington (I know they have a strong in-state preference, but I fell in love with this school, my uncle used to live in Seattle).
West Virginia University
Medical College of Wisconsin

 

[Catalystik]

There are DO med schools that don't require a DO LOR, including one in California. See list: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=10677&d=1217108730

 

[jadealer]

Consider these for "fit".

With a 3.99/28, your LizzyM score=69 =[MCAT score + (cGPA X 10)] + 1
(School’s score (using median acceptee stats) doesn’t include the +1.)
(X%)=% matriculants that are from OOS. Some may prefer state ties.

69/Loma Linda (49%), Loyola (55%), RFU (53%), UKentucky (30%), Creighton (89%), Albany (62%), SUNY Downstate (18%) Jefferson (60%), MCW (~65%)
68/UIllinois (27%), Wayne (17%), Buffalo (29%), Toledo (34%), Drexel (71%), Temple (52%), Vermont (72%), VCU (44%),
67/GWU (96%), FIU (21%), Louisvll (25%), Tulane (83%), UNevada (24%), NYMC (67%), MUSC (22%), SCarolina (18%), EVMS (39%),
66/Rush (19%), Michigan State (26%),
65/Commonweath MC (PA) (29%)

Maybe also consider the two California DO schools, AZCOM, and the new Western branch opening in Oregon, CCOM, and PCOM.

is there a place on SD that has the LizzyM score with all the schools listed out?

 

[sustentacular]

That being said, can anyone critique my list of schools?

I think you should remove the following schools:
Boston University
Tufts University
Mayo Medical School
New York University
Wake Forest University
Pennsylvania State University
Meharry Medical College - Unless you are a URM
University of Washington
Medical College of Wisconsin

Maybe add:
Arizona
SUNY Buffalo

I'm not trying to be discouraging just trying to save you some money.

 

[obgyny]

I think you should remove the following schools:
Boston University
Tufts University
Mayo Medical School
New York University
Wake Forest University
Pennsylvania State University
Meharry Medical College - Unless you are a URM
University of Washington
Medical College of Wisconsin

Maybe add:
Arizona
SUNY Buffalo

I'm not trying to be discouraging just trying to save you some money.

Thanks for the feedback! I'll look into the schools you've just mentioned. I know some of the schools you suggested removing were some reach schools (like NYU and Mayo), but what about the others? Because I'm a CA resident? If I remember correctly, my MCAT score seemed within reach of some of those schools, according to MSAR. For example, does Meharry Medical College have a strong preference for URMs? And no, I'm not URM (caucasian female).

 

[sustentacular]

Meharry is traditionally Black and I believe the others that I suggested you remove are reaches as well except for MCW. I hope someone from CA gives you an opinion too because from what I remember CA schools are very competitive for instate students. MCW I felt kind rejects people right off the bat based on scores without really evaluating the whole application (someone can chime in if they feel otherwise).

 

[obgyny]

I feel like this is pretty watered down. You really don't have a shot at CA schools with that mcat. not everyone, but almost everyone has awesome EC's, and it's tough to have you stand out by them. Most important is getting through the initial computer cutoff.

I have two friends who both are ca residents, both had >30 mcat and >3.8 gpa, and neither received any ca acceptances (cept one who got in at loma linda).

If you really want ca, retake. submit in july right around when u take the mcat, that way it can be verified by the time your scores are coming out.

It's true though, you won't be getting in an early app any more.

Update: I went ahead and applied with my 28M MCAT score. Got 3 interview invites: UC Davis, UCI, and GWU... and was accepted to UCI!! (my top choice and alma mater!). Obviously, things might have been easier for me if I retook the MCAT and I might have gotten more invites/acceptances. But I just wanted to give a little hope to other people in my situation and show that numbers aren't everything! I knew it was going to be risky with my MCAT score, but I'm glad I applied .

 

[Catalystik]

Update: I went ahead and applied with my 28M MCAT score. Got 3 interview invites: UC Davis, UCI, and GWU... and was accepted to UCI!! (my top choice and alma mater!).

Whooo hooo! You're gonna be a doctor. Congrats! I'm very happy for you.

 

[obgyny]

Whooo hooo! You're gonna be a doctor. Congrats! I'm very happy for you.

Thanks, Cat! I really appreciate all the advice you've given me!!!

 

[Catalystik]

I've followed your progress over enough time that I'm especially delighted to know there is a happy ending to your story.

 

[blankmoniker]

catalysik!

i've been following you for awhile and would love to receive your input if possible!

i'm in a similar situation as BPost137 (mcat score, academic background, timeframe) except i'm a nontraditional student with different ECs.

i was wondering if your advice to BPost137 is applicable to my situation as well.

i would greatly, greatly appreciate it if you could give any advice on the best course of action since like BPost137, I am debating whether to retake the mcat or not. I"m leaning towards not retaking it and reapplying this year like she did.


BPost137,

Congrats!! I'm so happy to hear you're going to your alma mater! So excited and so jealous!! Best of luck in all of your future endeavors!

 

[blankmoniker]

shameless bump

 

[obgyny]

BPost137,

Congrats!! I'm so happy to hear you're going to your alma mater! So excited and so jealous!! Best of luck in all of your future endeavors!

Thanks! Well at least you have a balanced score like I did. Obviously it would be easier on you if you retake the MCAT and got a better score. My application cycle was stressful because I had no idea whether or not I would get in because I knew the 28 would put me at a disadvantage. With a low MCAT, you definitely need to make it up in other areas, I think I did this with my GPA, ECs, and life experiences. You have a great GPA and an interesting, non-typical background (worked in the film industry, owned your own company, etc), great volunteering experiences, teaching, leadership, shadowing, etc. Your ECs seem strong to me! The only thing is that you're on the low side for research experience (I saw you only had 1 summer). It seems that most of the UCs are big on research. But you have a lot of experience in other areas (like teaching and leadership), maybe that will makeup for it or maybe you'll have better chances at non-research heavy schools.

Some advice from my experience:

If you decide to apply with the 28, you'll have to especially be careful with your school selections. This was really hard for me... my GPA was above all the schools' averages, and my MCAT was pretty much below all of the schools' averages. Apply as early as you can and apply very broadly! Once you get a list of schools within your range of stats, really try to find schools that match your interests and experiences. My interests/ECs are all about working in underserved communities and research, and I noticed the schools that offered me interviews really emphasize these areas. UCI seemed to be the greatest fit for me and that's where I got accepted .

But remain realistic. I had to accept the possibility that I might not have gotten in and that I would have to reapply and retake the MCAT next time. I was lucky and I feel very grateful!!

Good luck!!!

I'm sure Catalystik will chime in and give you some advice for your situation specifically. Cat is awesome!!!

 

[blankmoniker]

BPost137,

thanks so much for your prompt response! I PM'd you!