3 more Osteopathic schools opening

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You guys should go and deal with your issues under a Touro thread, rather than a general thread that will be read by many interested in a new school.

Once again this is just contributing to negativity in the field that people exploring DO will get exposed to. If its in the class thread... then it would be better.

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drtongue_danger said:
why would you "actively" not want to stay in school after the first year if not for poor performance? many of the biggest critics of the new DO school are people 1. with no clue about medical school (pre-med) 2. mis informed med- student with close to no knowlege of market condition for the medical field, and 3. those that are bitter, your friend falls under the latter.
she is mad at one teacher (gross anatomy) so that gives her the right to burn down the school and piss on it, and call everyone stuipd that stayed in school.

You're not very imaginative if you can't think of a situation where one would willingly leave medical school. Maybe she didn't like it and thought it wasn't worth it.
 
exlawgrrl said:
You're not very imaginative if you can't think of a situation where one would willingly leave medical school. Maybe she didn't like it and thought it wasn't worth it.

so after she had spent $60K plus, she just figured out it was not worth it? give me a break, wait until you are in medical school then you will have an idea
 
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drtongue_danger said:
so after she had spent $60K plus, she just figured out it was not worth it? give me a break, wait until you are in medical school then you will have an idea

Hey, I know people who willingly drop out. It happens. Give up your judgmental bs about something you probably know absolutely nothing about and stop making unfounded speculations about another poster.
 
There are always those few that even after graduating that decide medicne is not for them. Sucks, but true. Maybe she is $60K in the hole but saved herself another $60K by leaving med school. I don't know this person personally so who knows.
 
Shouldn't we all be directing our energies to the discussion of creating more post-graduate training programs in other areas of the country and those of different specialties. Shouldn't we be directing our concerns to our SOMA organizations, state-osteopathic associations, and to the AOA? For some of us who are medical students, I think we should be thinking about and more concerned for our future rather than debating what has already happened.
 
Elysium said:
I can tell you right now that TUCOM has absolutely no business opening up another school. In order to fill the first class they had to take students with "questionable" stats (I know this first hand) and the second class is also filled with people with sub 23 MCATs and 3.0 GPAs. Out of 100 something students several have already decelerated/left. The faculty is mostly composed of professors who have never taught medical school before (with a few exceptions; there are some teachers that are good) and the whole program is basically under the control of an overweight egomanical sociopath anatomy instructor who delights in destroying student's spirits. The notion that the quality of applicants isn't going to be watered down by the introduction of several more questionable DO schools is absurd. There simply aren't enough highly qualified people to fill those spots. It'll be interesting to see what the board pass rate will be for these new schools - I suspect it'll be fairly horrific. That said, there are a handful of intelligent folks at the new schools that will make great (or competent) docs. That, though, is the exception to the rule. I hope the AOA (also questionable) puts a stop to these greedy bastards and reins in these schools before things get more out of control.


Intersting comments. I want to address some of them.

We are a new school here at TUNCOM and there our some problems. Every school has problems, we have growing pains. We are working through them and that is how you make change, not by a continued negative outlook and doing nothing about it. There are many things to be proud of our university that we have accomplished and continue to accomplish. The door swings both ways. You get what you put into it. You can go to the best medical school in the nation and if you don’t put in the effort, no matter what they do you will not succeed (board scores, grades, insert whatever). I would take very carefully opinions on subjects like our program TUNCOM or any other subject on forums in general from people who were not involved, use second hand information (anyone play telephone?...) and now in our instance are no longer with our program for whatever the reason is. It is sad to see that all Elysium refined from her brief experience with us is a continued negative attitude and outlook and that will not be missed. I wish her luck with her future endeavors but also ask her to move on. You are entitled to an opinion and you have said it. Just note that this one person’s opinion does not represent the 180 or so current TUNCOM students there are currently enrolled.

To respond to a couple issues:
  • 1) doesn't touro actually control the number of people who can sit for the boards? Yes it does. So does every other medical school. The Dean MUST sign you eligible. Without your USMLE or COMLEX number you can’t even sign up for the test. Do I personally agree with that, no. 99% pass rates does not tell me much. It would be nice to have data telling us how many sat, how many repeated and how many did not sit. Is that going to happen anytime soon, probably not. A smart interviewee would ask these questions of their perspective schools that they will or want to interview at. Most likely not the day of the interview so to keep the water calm but if you don’t put effort in to find out the only loser is you.
  • 2) control of an overweight egomanical sociopath anatomy instructor who delights in destroying student's spirits? Has anyone heard of tough love…. This anatomy instructor has been one of the most receptive professors to encouraging and assisting students to make a difference at our school. Was he hard, heck yes. Did he get on our backs asking for better performance, yes. Did we learn a lot, yes. Did he always have an open door to all students and even try to help the struggling ones even beyond that, yes. Did we mature into a better medical student, I think yes. Anyone who has ever played organized sports knows that a great coach is one that pushes you hard, harder than you ever thought you could go, punished you when you errored so that when the day came that the weight of a game was on your shoulders you were ready no matter what you were facing. I will follow that person any day.
  • 3) why does such a new school need to open up two branches? We and LECCOM (I think that’s right) are the last branch campuses allowed by the AOA. ALL new DO schools must be from the ground up new, cannot be a branch. This means much more paperwork. Actually a lot more. I’m not sure why my school continues to grow so metastatically fast but we as students have no control over that. I do see this as the AOA putting their foot down and demanding higher quality. I agree that what we need is more residency programs. I look at DO residencies and to find one I want to go to it is hard to look west of the Mississippi. There is a west coast remember. The problem I see is that most residencies (are they not all??) are attached with a medical school. In our instance being osteopathic we lack the numbers. If we have more schools in more locations this leads to more residencies, right?. Our school is doing just that. We will have new residency programs in family practice and dermatology (wow one of the ROADs). Will we as current students have to deal with the current number of residency programs and their locations, of course. Can we make it better for our future colleagues, of course. Collectively we can do this and we are pushing.

Keep up the discussion. Make it constructive and do something about it. Talk to your SGA’s, to SOMA, COSGP or to any of your student run groups and do it! This is how our concerns get to the national level and in fact discussed at the AOA House of Delegates. Otherwise this is just another thread on the osteopathic forum for people to rant.

Nik
 
monelkub said:
Intersting
To respond to a couple issues:
  • 1) doesn't touro actually control the number of people who can sit for the boards? Yes it does. So does every other medical school. The Dean MUST sign you eligible. Without your USMLE or COMLEX number you can’t even sign up for the test. Do I personally agree with that, no. 99% pass rates does not tell me much. It would be nice to have data telling us how many sat, how many repeated and how many did not sit. Is that going to happen anytime soon, probably not. A smart interviewee would ask these questions of their perspective schools that they will or want to interview at. Most likely not the day of the interview so to keep the water calm but if you don’t put effort in to find out the only loser is you.
  • 3) why does such a new school need to open up two branches? We and LECCOM (I think that’s right) are the last branch campuses allowed by the AOA. ALL new DO schools must be from the ground up new, cannot be a branch. This means much more paperwork. Actually a lot more.



  • 1- To my understanding UNECOM does NOT control the number that sit for the exams. Hence why its takes crap for having lower scores.

    2- PCOM-G was another one.
 
drtongue_danger said:
so after she had spent $60K plus, she just figured out it was not worth it? give me a break, wait until you are in medical school then you will have an idea

60k isn't a lot of money to everybody
If I spent 200k and knew for a fact I didn't want to practice medicine and would never change my mind I would drop out.
 
A smart interviewee would ask these questions of their perspective schools that they will or want to interview at
would you have thought to ask this? If a person is passing...even at 71%...why are they not allowed to take the test? To think otherwise is foolish. I would never have thought to ask "hey, if i am passing will you let me take the boards or not?"

kudos to Touro for opening up more residencies though (and in decent areas!)
 
Keep up the discussion. Make it constructive and do something about it. Talk to your SGA’s, to SOMA, COSGP or to any of your student run groups and do it! This is how our concerns get to the national level and in fact discussed at the AOA House of Delegates. Otherwise this is just another thread on the osteopathic forum for people to rant.

Nik
[/QUOTE]


Nice post, well put. But not to burst your bubble, but with SOMA, COSGP and "discussion" at the AOA it is no different than ranting here because it falls of deaf ears at the AOA level.

Not one productive thing has happened from all the "lobbying" SOMA or COSGP has done over the last couple of years. And until a few years ago, SOMA and COSGP didn't even like each other (probably still don't). What is SOMA? Student leaders. What's COSGP? Student leaders. So why are there two groups supposedly working towards the same goal, but doing different things, yet at the same time, doing nothing at all? Because the current leaders don't listen. I've seen it, done it, and am glad I'm done with it. Hopefully the student leaders of today will remember our experiences now so that when they are at the front office, they will be more receptive.

That's my rant for the evening. It's got nothing to do with what everyone's arguing about. Carry on.
 
Not one productive thing has happened from all the "lobbying" SOMA or COSGP has done over the last couple of years
look at the joint match...(+)90% of students polled wanted it...the AOA comes out with some bogus "study" that proves it would have only helped a few students and tells us to just trust them, pat us on our niave little heads and push us out the door. The only reason the AOA exists is to make its self-appointed leaders feel important...
i would love to say that once some of our generation get into leadership things will change...but as long as they appoint their own leaders that won't be allowed to happen.
 
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There are 5 schools to open in the next two years. Meaning start classes in 2007 and 2008, these 5 schools have actually passed the first level of being accredited. The locations of the schools are

1.Harrogate, Tennessee - Lincoln Memorial University
2.Yakima, Washington- The Pacific Northwest University of Health Sciences
3.Mesa, Arizona- AT Still University of Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine
4.Harlem NY- Touro College of Osteopathic Medicine, New York
5.Pittsburgh, PA - I heard a report but I can't remember if there was a name given

GA-PCOM is not the last branch campus to open. After these schools open up that is all she wrote. As far as I can remember the TN school has hired a Dean.

there has been a big explosion of schools. But our profession of Osteopathy has seen this before if I can remember my DO history. As I can remember for some reason alot of the schools were forced to close. Let us hope and pray this does not happen again. I think this is incredible that Osteopathy is being spread across the country. But I believe we are discussing the right topic. It should not be the quality of students. There is always a good amount of qualified canidates that do not get in when they apply to a medical school. I think the right area to focus our attention is if the osteopathic community doing its part by taking the appropriate steps to insure the that the pool of professors to draw from is of quality. A question to pose...Should some of our COM's start to produce medical educators that we know will provide the right education needed train our DO's of the future?

With that I am out
 
Just a quick FYI…… The Pacific Northwest University of Health Sciences in Yakima has not yet received accreditation from the Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditations (American Osteopathic Association) or approval from the Washington State Higher Education Coordinating Board. In fact they are still in the process of raising twenty million dollars. Rumors out of Yakima are that the initial class will be beyond 2007!
 
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Kate Reagan, Director of Public Relations Phone: 423-869-6389
Lincoln Memorial University Fax: 423-869-6370

LMU Pursues Accreditation for a College of Osteopathic Medicine


Harrogate, Tennessee, January 18, 2006—Lincoln Memorial University has notified the Commission on Colleges (COC) of the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS) of its intent to initiate a College of Osteopathic Medicine (COM) and seek accreditation at Level V to award doctoral degrees. The new program represents LMU’s first Level V (doctoral/professional) degree program and requires approval from both SACS COC and the American Osteopathic Association’s Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation (AOA COCA) to achieve regional and professional accreditation. LMU received pre-accreditation status with the AOA COCA as a first step in pursuit of a fully accredited College of Osteopathic Medicine. The institution is working closely with SACS COC and AOA COCA to insure successful implementation of the new College of Osteopathic Medicine.

The idea of a school of medicine has been a long time dream for the Chairman of the LMU Board of Trustees, Pete DeBusk, businessman, entrepreneur and philanthropist. DeBusk, a native of Lee County, Virginia, the birthplace of Dr. Andrew Taylor Still, the father of osteopathic medicine, has a strong commitment to the people of the Appalachian region and to his alma mater, Lincoln Memorial University. Recruiting physicians in the Appalachian area remains a challenge. DeBusk feels that this new program and continued service to Appalachia will enhance the opportunity to solve this problem while fulfilling LMU’s mission and institutional strategic plan.

As background to the evolution of this program, Pete DeBusk is one of 17 members of the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission (MedPAC), a Medicare advisory board in Washington, DC. DeBusk occupies the technology seat, which allowed him to meet a fellow commissioner, Ray Stowers, D.O. Dr. Stowers represents rural physicians and the osteopathic profession on the MedPAC Commission.

Following lengthy discussions and visits to other osteopathic medical programs, Dr. Stowers was hired as one of two consultants who guided the conduct of a feasibility study to determine the institution’s readiness to initiate this program. Subsequent to this yearlong process, Dr. Stowers was hired as Vice President and Dean of the College of Osteopathic Medicine. During his brief tenure at LMU, Dr. Stowers, working collaboratively with President Nancy B. Moody and other administrative personnel, has hired several administrative staff; initiated curriculum development; contacted numerous healthcare agencies; sought external funding; visited clinics and health professionals throughout the region; worked closely to fully integrate the COM into the organizational structure of the university; and worked to demonstrate compliance with accreditation standards of SACS COC and AOA COCA.

Osteopathic physicians (D.O.s), like allopathic physicians (M.D.s), are fully qualified to practice medicine and surgery in each of the 50 states. Both D.O.s and M.D.s attend medical schools for four years, enter into specialties, must pass comparable state licensing requirements, practice and work side-by-side in fully accredited and licensed health care facilities. A difference between the two training systems is that Doctors’ of Osteopathic Medicine receive additional training in the musculoskeletal system. This additional instruction is delivered via manipulative therapy and the process of learning to use their hands to both diagnose and treat illnesses

Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine are required to complete continuing education courses to remain current in their fields. Presently many osteopathic physicians work in underserved areas and approximately 65% of D.O.s practice in primary care specialties. Doctors’ of Osteopathic Medicine comprise a separate, yet equal, branch of American medical care that has been fully integrated into the nation’s health maintenance system.

The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges (SACS COC) is recognized by the Department of Education as the regional body for accreditation of institutions for higher learning within 11 southern states and Latin America. SACS COC monitors institutions that award associate, baccalaureate, master’s or doctoral degrees. SACS COC accreditation demonstrates that an institution has a purpose appropriate to higher education, as well as the resources, programs and services necessary to accomplish and sustain that purpose.

AOA COCA is recognized by the U.S. Department of Education as the only accrediting agency for pre-doctoral osteopathic medical education in the United States. Accreditation action taken by AOA COCA means a college or university has appropriately identified its mission and secured the necessary resources to accomplish that mission. Likewise, it insures that the institution shows evidence of accomplishing its mission as well as demonstrating that the mission will be accomplished in the future.

On July 8, 2005, the University submitted a letter to AOA COCA requesting applicant status. Following the completion of an exhaustive feasibility study by the University “Ad Hoc” Steering Committee, the LMU Board of Trustees voted unanimously to support the development of a College of Osteopathic Medicine. A pre-accreditation application was accepted, and the university was evaluated by a visiting team from AOA COCA on October 13, 2005. LMU was granted “pre-accreditation” status in mid-December 2005 with no deficiencies cited in the report. University officials continue to work closely with SACS to integrate the approval processes of both accrediting agencies. Recruitment of students will begin following the approval of both accrediting agencies. A targeted goal for the beginning of classes is the fall semester, 2007.

Historically, LMU operated a School of Medicine, which was located in Knoxville, in partnership with a group of local physicians from 1905 through 1914. Over a century later, a sense of “déjà vu” permeates the air of the main campus in Harrogate, as the new medical school will be located there. Dr. Nancy B. Moody, President, Lincoln Memorial University, stated that “establishment of this College of Osteopathic Medicine will have a significant economic, healthcare, and educational impact on the region. The growth that will occur as the result of this program will be felt far and wide.” Although the first two years of the program will be offered on the main campus in Harrogate, the last two years of the program will be conducted primarily in health care agencies in a corridor extending from Harrogate to Chattanooga with the bulk of clinical training being conducted in the greater metropolitan area of Knoxville.

Founded in 1897 as a living memorial to Abraham Lincoln, 16th President of the United States, the University’s mission is to serve the Appalachian region by providing quality programs in higher education. Remaining true to its mission, 80% of the current student body comes from the tri-state area of Tennessee, Kentucky and Virginia. Following graduation, statistics show that 64% of LMU graduates continue to live and work within a 75-mile radius of the main campus in Harrogate, Tennessee.

The need to provide health care professionals grew to a crisis level across the nation a generation ago. Lincoln Memorial University’s first measure for alleviating the crisis was to launch a high quality nursing program in 1974. Over the 32 years of service of the Associate of Science Degree in Nursing, the program has grown in size and is now offered at multiple sites in the institution’s service area. In the same time frame, over 5,000 nursing, medical technology, social work and athletic training graduates have joined the employment ranks. Sixty eight percent of LMU’s nursing graduates live and serve within 75 miles of the main campus. Pending approval by the Tennessee Board of Nursing (TBN), an additional enhancement to the educational offerings, which include a baccalaureate completion program for RN’s, will be the initiation of a new Master of Science in Nursing/Nurse Practitioner program slated to begin in August 2006. This program has already received approval from SACS COC.

LMU has experienced unprecedented growth over the past five academic years. This is truly a time of whitewater change at Lincoln Memorial University. The largest increase in enrollment has been in health-related programs and in graduate education. Concurrent with the growth in enrollment and in keeping with its mission, LMU has significantly expanded its traditionally strong faculty and staff and plans to recruit a diverse group of highly qualified professionals as it moves toward Level V accreditation with SACS COC. In an effort to strategically address growth in student enrollment, the university will continue to construct new academic buildings, additional residence halls, and a campus operations facility; to renovate existing facilities, including the library, science buildings, and residence halls; and to support changes in infrastructure, including technological enhancements.

Lincoln Memorial University is an accredited, values-based learning community, dedicated to providing educational experiences in the liberal arts and professional studies.

Lincoln Memorial University is a values-based learning community dedicated to providing educational experiences in the liberal arts and professional studies. The main campus is located in Harrogate, Tennessee. For more information about the undergraduate and graduate programs available at LMU, contact the Office of Admissions at 423-869-6280 or e-mail at [email protected].

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Also, MD medical schools are expanding their class sizes substantially over the next decade (and adding new med schools in Florida, Texas, etc). And there is no new federal funding for MD residencies-- so those are going to stay relatively constant (there has been some talk about the new MD schools affiliating with existing community programs with funding so they both benefit)

Most residencies that I know of are not and have not been 'federally funded' although the number is controlled by the govt /AMA.

THEY ARE EXPANDING AND ENCOURAGING MORE RESIDENCY SPOTS! Most MD schools are not growing....it affects there rankings. The ones that are like LSU, a state school, are planning a size increase of 15% over the next 10 years...quote from the dean of admissions from this morning. He said its BECAUSE the AMA knows that the patient population is growing and there is also a shortage of doctors across the country.

I don't know much about DO residencies honestly accept that I think they are more heavily primary care and more often rural...but the new residencies that are PLANNED over the next decade (having already started) will be MD residencies.

This is fact. Not opinion. This is directly from medical school administrators...and I've worked in a med school for 7 yrs. Texas and FL have had dramatic population expansions...cali too but they already have many schools and have new (er) DO schools.

Try to state things as opinions if its just your opinion and don't insult people for correcting you.


DO students have gotten residencies at Johns Hopkins and other elite residencies. They are only unknown to the greater population...yet well known in the medical field. Respect is there and growing.

NOT just my opinion,

PhDtoMD...or DO, still thinking about it
 
Hi! Where did you find this list? I've been looking forever with no success.

Thanks

BringintheReign said:
There are 5 schools to open in the next two years. Meaning start classes in 2007 and 2008, these 5 schools have actually passed the first level of being accredited. The locations of the schools are

1.Harrogate, Tennessee - Lincoln Memorial University
2.Yakima, Washington- The Pacific Northwest University of Health Sciences
3.Mesa, Arizona- AT Still University of Health Sciences College of Osteopathic Medicine
4.Harlem NY- Touro College of Osteopathic Medicine, New York
5.Pittsburgh, PA - I heard a report but I can't remember if there was a name given

GA-PCOM is not the last branch campus to open. After these schools open up that is all she wrote. As far as I can remember the TN school has hired a Dean.

there has been a big explosion of schools. But our profession of Osteopathy has seen this before if I can remember my DO history. As I can remember for some reason alot of the schools were forced to close. Let us hope and pray this does not happen again. I think this is incredible that Osteopathy is being spread across the country. But I believe we are discussing the right topic. It should not be the quality of students. There is always a good amount of qualified canidates that do not get in when they apply to a medical school. I think the right area to focus our attention is if the osteopathic community doing its part by taking the appropriate steps to insure the that the pool of professors to draw from is of quality. A question to pose...Should some of our COM's start to produce medical educators that we know will provide the right education needed train our DO's of the future?

With that I am out
 
PhDtoMD said:
but the new residencies that are PLANNED over the next decade (having already started) will be MD residencies.
Can you elaborate on this a bit? Where is the funding going to come from? How is it different from the funding needed for a DO residency?

Other than funding, are there other obstacles to opening a new DO residency? IE, I heard rumors that a hospital wants to open a residency program but it cannot find a DO in that field to be the PD -- is this a possible scenario, or would they easily be able to pursuade one such DO to take the post if they really wanted to?
 
beastmaster said:
Can you elaborate on this a bit? Where is the funding going to come from? How is it different from the funding needed for a DO residency?

Other than funding, are there other obstacles to opening a new DO residency? IE, I heard rumors that a hospital wants to open a residency program but it cannot find a DO in that field to be the PD -- is this a possible scenario, or would they easily be able to pursuade one such DO to take the post if they really wanted to?

our primary care teacher said one of the challeges of opening a DO residency is that the AOA needs at least two DO's to be comminted to be on staff for the programe, and for sub-specialty it is hard to find 2 ENT (for example) to sign on for that type of commiment. however Touro NV is opening up 2 programes in this summer, Derm and ophthalmology with more to open in the 2007 ad 2008 (FP and IM)
 
If anyone hears anything as far as progress with the Yakima, WA school please PM me and keep me up to date! Thanks
 
How difficult is it to get approval from the AOA to open a new school? Seems like there are always a few in the making.
 
drtongue_danger said:
at least two DO's to be comminted to be on staff for the programe, and for sub-specialty it is hard to find 2 ENT (for example) to sign on for that type of commiment
I've never heard before that you would need 2, that must be pretty hard indeed. It would make sense to encourage more DOs to pursue the subspecialties if they want one day to have them available for the opening of training programs.
 
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