300k to become an “implant expert”

Discussion in 'Dental Residents and Practicing Dentists' started by Utdarsenal, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. Utdarsenal

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    is it worth it?

    Lets say, I have no debt after dental school, no obligations, nothing really. Would putting 3 years of your life (and approx 300k debt) be worth it to become an “implant expert” in your guys opinion? Being capable of doing complex implant surgeries and rehabilitations? Would this be able to be easily made back-up via the procedures that one would be capable of doing after (paying back the loan)?
     
  2. KinKs

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    Had I been presented with such an opportunity - it would be a HARD PASS.
     
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  3. Adlogin

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    depends. are you referring to a perio residency?
     
  4. OP
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    Utdarsenal

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    Nope, its not a perio specialty. Just an extended “implantology” education in both placement and rehabilitation. So basically, you become an “expert” in both placing and restoring. Basically, you will be both placing and restoring cases such as all on 4’s and all that type of stuff. Woops, basically repeated myself. I’m guessing its kind of like a perio/prosth program except you don’t get the specialty titles.
     
  5. periopocket

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    Loma Linda has an excellent 3 year implant residency, they will give you a perio or prosth certificate for an additional 2 more years....I know one gentleman who did the 3 year implant residency and opted for 2 year perio, he is doing extremely well.

    Whether its worth it or not is up to you....but from my understanding you are a foreign grad and want an American dental degree one way or another...doing a specialty instead of a 2-3 year advanced standing is an attractive idea. Either one may end up costing you 300k
     
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  6. Svart Aske

    Svart Aske is stabbing his eyes out
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    If I'm going to spend that kind of money for a certificate, I'd rather it go towards a real specialty.
     
  7. wengerout

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    No at that point just do Perio or spend an extra year and do OMFS while getting paid.
     
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  8. hellopeople

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    You won't even be a specialist.
    This wouldn't just be a bad idea, it would be dumb. You'd be a chump.
    You know why?
    I'm not sending my implant referrals to an "implantologist" or whatever, I'm sending it to a surgeon.
     
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  9. lp3k11

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    It isn't, unless you intend to go to Spain or other countries where "Implantology" has some kind of recognition as a Dental Specialty.

    Specialty Definitions

    On the other hand, a fellowship would have some real value, if you hold a recognised dental specialty.
     
  10. Rainee

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    The benefit of being a specialist is that if you get sued/board complaint....you are the expert of your field and therefore... your notes/word really holds weight compared to a GP.

    For example, if a GP gets sued for placing an implant- they will get skewered regardless if they have an implantogolist title, taken 5000 hours of CE, and top of their class- because they are NOT an oral surgeon and they will be held to the STANDARD of an Oral Surgeon...which they cannot because they are NOT a specialist. The expert witness will be an OMFS and how can you defend against that. The first thing they would ask is "why didn't you send the case to an OMFS?" "if the case was sent to an OMFS, this complication would of never occured." How can a GP compare to an OMFS? They can't simple as that.

    If a oral surgeon gets sued, they have a better chance for defense because they ARE the on par with the expert witness. That's not to say they are invincible, but the defense is better.

    So no way I would pay 300k for an "implantologist title."
     
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  11. BlackThought

    BlackThought Faustian Luminary
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    Right.

    Because the difference between OMFS and Perio is "an extra year while getting paid".
     
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  12. wengerout

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    Where did I say that?

    I was comparing both to being an “implant” specialist.
     
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  13. 2TH MVR

    2TH MVR Orthodontist
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    To extrapolate on your reasoning. A GP with enough CE (or Midwestern Univ. Arizona grad ;)) can do implants, perio procedures, endo procedures, ortho, pros procedures, oral surgery, etc. etc. But if a GP gets sued for doing an implant, advanced perio, endo, ortho, oral surgery, etc. etc. they will be held to the standards set by how a specialist would have treated the case. Quote: "held to the Standard of an Oral Surgeon...which they cannot because they are NOT a specialist."

    Just confirming what you said. :)
     
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  14. Rainee

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    Yes? They will basicaly be held to the standard of a specialist treating the case. Doesn't matter if they went to any university, they would end up most likely losing the case and settling in the end.

    However, the reality is that in your lifetime, everyone will get sued at least once or twice in their career..and most likely it will be from some incident that you wouldn't think about.

    So bottom line is don't be scared of doing the speciality procedures. However, paying 300k for "implantologist" title....I'm not feeling it. Might as well just become a specialist and have the benefit of being a "specialist."
     
  15. charlestweed

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    Some dentists spend $2-300k to buy new equipment with the hope that these new expensive toys will significantly boost the production....and eventually pay for themselves. If you think being an "implant expert" will help you make much more than what you make right now, then go ahead and spend the $300k.

    No GP will refer patients to your office because you are a GP like them. So in order to get patients, you will have to work for the GPs as an associate. And to keep yourself busy and to make $$$, you will have travel to multiple GP offices. This is what many periodontists and OS's are currently doing and they are earning very good incomes. When I worked at Western Dental, I met an exodontist (a GP who is really fast at extracting teeth), who traveled multiple Western Dental offices.
     
  16. mmc12

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    What implant program costs 100K a year for three years? Sounds like an awful amount of money....
     
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  17. endoaccess

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    No.

    Implants are not that hard. Honestly one of the easier things I do. No need to spend 300k. I spent 8k and don’t refer much anymore.

    The cases that are hard; primarily ridge augmentation and anterior aesthetics, you can be sure I refer to a real specialist. A GP still has liability on referrals, so it only makes sense to refer to a specialist.
     
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  18. periopocket

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    An alternative is a 1 year implant fellowship. Many dental schools have them, but some require a GPR or Specialty completion. I know that LSU has a 1 year implant fellowship that you can attend str8 out of dental school, I think it might even pay. SIU has one, but I am pretty sure you need a GPR. Also, a couple GPRs are very implant heavy, San Antonio is very good, but also pretty competitive. Just another option if your trying to enhance your implant skills, without paying a ton or going through a specialty program.
     
  19. allantois

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    Dental educators have perfected the art of siphoning money from unsuspecting students
     
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  20. OP
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    Utdarsenal

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    Ok.. so sounds like the consensus here is that 300k is expensive as hell for thoroughly learning implants.

    Now, how about approx. 60-70k but 3 years of full time education for being able to do most implant/prosthetic cases? Would still be a GP and not considered a “specialist” but would have the knowledge of full mouth rehabs/all on 4 restorative, etc.. including implant placing.
    Keep in mind: i’m 26 years old and no debt.

    Lol. I keep on asking but my inner self sounds like I really want to do this.
     
  21. schmoob

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    You have to decide if there is VALUE here.

    Is this $300K for total COA? Or is it just tuition? Also if you factor in lost revenue, your opportunity cost could >$800K. Are you willing to spend that much to have no specialty designation?

    Unless you go into residency, there are plenty of CE courses to teach implants to GP's. For the big big cases send the pt to a specialist, it's best for everyone.
     
  22. Rainee

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    Reading from your posts...I don't think you understand the value of money and cost opportunity. Throwing around numbers like 300k and "approx 60-70k"... 300k is a ginormous number. 60-70k is what the new grad dentist is bringing home after tax in the "AMA I'm a dentist one year out thread" which is quite frankly really depressing if you have 300-500k of loans....Could easily make that much as an engineer/comp sci without debt at 22...but that's another story and off topic.

    That being said, since you have no debt which is great: No a GP would NEVER be considered a specialist in full mouth rehabs/all on four/implant placement. You will always be LOWER then a specialist and if you are ever sued/board complaint, you WILL most likely lose as you are NOT the specialist and therefore not an EXPERT witness.

    Now would it be WORTH it? In my opinion: NO. I've been out 5 years in one of the highest income area places in my state. Average median income is 100k+. I see many wealthy people. I have never done or referred a full mouth rehab, nor all on 4, and implant placements tend to be done by OMFS coordinated with me. I have also never seen a willing patient that needed a full mouth rehab- and those that do need it- do not have money for it. The average american lives paycheck to paycheck. Most people that need full mouth rehab do not have 40k lying around. You understand that if you do work on people with money, they also have alot of money to sue you if anything goes wrong. If they can spend 40k on full mouth rehab, you best believe they have 40 more thousand to sue you for "ill fitting crowns."

    The only offices that really make this work are prosthodontists who advertise themselves as THE DENTIST for all on 4, full mouth rehabs, that kind of thing which are few and in between- and honestly not that profitable if its not that busy. So...if you really want to do this kind of dentistry, I sincerely recommend you go into Prosthodontics.
     
    #22 Rainee, Feb 11, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  23. sb.tnh

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    Reading from your posts history, looks like you're a foreign trained dentist right? If that's the case I'm pretty sure that completing an "implant" program that is not an official specialty program would not allow you to practice in the US. You might want to apply to actual Pros or Perio programs in order to get a license. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  24. Afterhoursdentist

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    Unless you’re doing breast implants, this is not worth it! Recent graduates have a huge misconception about implants. “Perio vs OMFS”/ “anterior esthetic implants”/ “bone augmentation and soft tissue preservation”. These are the selling catch phrases of specialists. In reality, specialists are competing with competent general dentists for implants. Yes, there are implant cases that need to be treated by a periodontist or oral surgeon; but the vast majority can be done by competent general dentist with good surgical skills and continuing education. In school you are taught by specialists who overemphasize their role in dentistry. I work in one of the highest dentist per capita markets in the US. Private practice Periodontists are struggling and my omfs referrals will extract teeth, place a bone graft, and send them back to me for the implant. If I refer to them for an implant they place the implant. As a general dentist you can perform whatever procedures you want to perform and refer the procedures you deem necessary for treatment by a specialist. Be honest with yourself about your capabilities as a provider which are determine by you Sofi am experience and the imaging equipment of your office. A CBCT is a must. Be competent in surgical skills such as flaps, incisions and suturing. Always continue to research and educate yourself on techniques and approaches to implant surgery.
     
  25. Rainee

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    Well said. Thars real world dentistry for you
     

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