30yo very nontrad. Does one semester of Fs a decade ago hurt my chances?

[PowerOfWill]

Eleven years ago I stopped going to class my second semester at a community college due to a change in family/living situation. I was hardly sleeping trying to work full-time along with the course load. I wasn't aware of the formal withdrawal process so they are all Fs, not Ws. I'm going to talk with the school and see if I can have them changed to Ws retroactively, considering the circumstances.

I'd think that, logically, if the credits would be too old to count as prerequisites for med school, I'd think they shouldn't factor into the GPA, either. But I'm not sure how that works in practice.

I basically discovered after ten years of doing nothing that really meant anything to me, that I can't imagine a more rewarding life than practicing medicine. It had always been in the back of my mind and I feel it's what I'm supposed to do. I've long been interested in health and fitness, and since a very young age I've done a lot of research.

At the same community college I was at previously, I'm finishing the transferable prerequisites for the state university in the fall. Currently getting a 3.93 first semester back but I can still do better. Adjusting to being in school again and ironing out proper study habits.

I'm concerned that my application may ultimately be looked over at first glance because of one semester, long ago. Anybody else ever encounter this situation?

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[TastyBrains]

I AM this situation and even older than you. 4 yrs ago I transferred from cc to univ and imploded bc lot of bad life situations and perfect storm etc youve heard it all before +had no clue what I actually wanted to do...anyhow stopped going didnt even withdraw so took something like 12 credits of 0.0 F!...Massive disaster . Anyhow crawled back out of the darkness present day they gave me academic forgiveness for that semester (I realize that this has no effect on med app) and have knocked out 2 semesters of 18 credits at 4.0 and hoping to keep at that level here out...I doubt I can achieve anything over approaching a 3.5 posssibly so am hoping some MD schools like some DOs recognize/reward re-invention? Have my eye set largely on DO anyhow though.

 

[TastyBrains]

*also pls let me know if you have any luck with a retroactive change I think it is unlikely especially in my case but may be worth a shot (cant hurt)

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

If you can’t get your grades to changed to Ws (and it’s a long shot but that’s exactly what I did). Then they will drag down your GPA but shouldn’t have much of an effect on anything beyond that. If you get good grades this time around and otherwise make yourself a good candidate, then you will in good shape.
Schools realize something from a decade ago might not be indicative of who you are now.
You’ll be good for pretty much all DO and a good number of MD schools.
You may need to explain this in secondaries and interviews so, when the time come think of a good way to phrase this. Describe what happened and how you’ve grown and changes since then.

 

[TastyBrains]

If you can’t get your grades to changed to Ws (and it’s a long shot but that’s exactly what I did).

Any tips on how you went about this? Petition some school body or? thx

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

Any tips on how you went about this? Petition some school body or? thx

I went through the office of student affairs initially. I had to talk to a lot of different people and, since my issues related to my (then undiagnosed) mental illness, I had to provide documentation from my doctor about it. It took me the better part of a year to get everything done. So don’t give up on it till you exhaust all options.

 

[Jdp00921]

I was never in your situation but I find it hard to imagine something you did more than a decade ago would be held against you now. I really wouldn't worry about it. Also, I'm pretty sure grades that old aren't even transferrable and additionally, couldn't count toward a degree because of their age. I'm really not sure how AMCAS would handle them. One of the ADCOMs can probably comment more accurately.

Point - I doubt anyone will hold your decade-old grades against you!

 

[mk04447]

I have a decade plus on you. In high school I went to CC because they stopped letting us check out early without a place to go my senior year and I got 4 F's in stupid ****. 20 years later my GPA was always approaching but never hit 4.0 because of it, but nobody ever asked. This will get buried and everyone understands anyway, if I saw that on your transcripts I'd chuckle thinking to myself he was an idiot who got his act together, good for him.

As for changing the grade, impossible, best you can do is retake same or similar class and list as replacement; though I remember reading something a while back they changed how this works in the application, so you'll want to read on that. If we aren't talking science classes forget about it and move on.

 

[holdthemayo]

You are basically sitting where I was sitting when I decided to go back. I'm not finishing up my M1 year. Plenty of others have done it too.

The bad news is that, unless you can get them forgiven (I couldn't), those grades still count for your AMCAS GPA.

The good news is that 10+ years is plenty of time for Adcoms to believe that you are not the same person now that you were back then. For now, concentrate on putting together the strongest application you can. You will have to explain that semester. Be honest, be humble, and make sure there is overwhelming evidence that you are not that student anymore.

There are plenty of MD schools that value reinvention. Nearly all DO schools do.

Obligatory link to my favorite thread: LOW GPA/MCAT Success Stories (Posts by Nontrads Already Accepted to Med School)

 

[holdthemayo]

I was never in your situation but I find it hard to imagine something you did more than a decade ago would be held against you now. I really wouldn't worry about it. Also, I'm pretty sure grades that old aren't even transferrable and additionally, couldn't count toward a degree because of their age. I'm really not sure how AMCAS would handle them. One of the ADCOMs can probably comment more accurately.

Point - I doubt anyone will hold your decade-old grades against you!

AMCAS counts everything:
When entering coursework, you must include information and corresponding grades for every course in which you have ever enrolled at any U.S., U.S. Territorial, or Canadian post-secondary institution, regardless of whether you earned credit. This includes, but is not limited to, withdrawals, repeats, failures, incompletes, and future coursework. Courses removed from your transcripts or GPA as a result of academic bankruptcy, forgiveness, or similar institutional policies must also be included.
Section 4 of the AMCAS® application: Course Work

 

[curbsideconsult]

Eleven years ago

That's quite a long time ago and you're showing a strong upward trend. If you continue the trend at the 4-year, the one semester of Fs shouldn't be a problem GPA-wise. Yes, your GPA will be a little lower than you want, but many med schools like an older candidate who's learned from past mistakes and have improved along the way.

 

[Goro]

Eleven years ago I stopped going to class my second semester at a community college due to a change in family/living situation. I was hardly sleeping trying to work full-time along with the course load. I wasn't aware of the formal withdrawal process so they are all Fs, not Ws. I'm going to talk with the school and see if I can have them changed to Ws retroactively, considering the circumstances.

I'd think that, logically, if the credits would be too old to count as prerequisites for med school, I'd think they shouldn't factor into the GPA, either. But I'm not sure how that works in practice.

I basically discovered after ten years of doing nothing that really meant anything to me, that I can't imagine a more rewarding life than practicing medicine. It had always been in the back of my mind and I feel it's what I'm supposed to do. I've long been interested in health and fitness, and since a very young age I've done a lot of research.

At the same community college I was at previously, I'm finishing the transferable prerequisites for the state university in the fall. Currently getting a 3.93 first semester back but I can still do better. Adjusting to being in school again and ironing out proper study habits.

I'm concerned that my application may ultimately be looked over at first glance because of one semester, long ago. Anybody else ever encounter this situation?

There are plenty of med schools that reward reinvention. Forget about the GPA and concentrate on showing that the you of now is not the you of then.

 

[Jdp00921]

AMCAS counts everything:
When entering coursework, you must include information and corresponding grades for every course in which you have ever enrolled at any U.S., U.S. Territorial, or Canadian post-secondary institution, regardless of whether you earned credit. This includes, but is not limited to, withdrawals, repeats, failures, incompletes, and future coursework. Courses removed from your transcripts or GPA as a result of academic bankruptcy, forgiveness, or similar institutional policies must also be included.
Section 4 of the AMCAS® application: Course Work

Ehh, not surprised at all. Though I still believe those grades will hold very little weight when OP is considered by medical schools.

 

[UTUT]

I think in Texas, on TMDSAS, they don't look at your grades 10+ years ago. Or you could get grades 10+ years ago expunged. Not sure about the rules but can look on TMDSAS website.

 

[PowerOfWill]

Thanks for the replies. All I can do is all I can do and I believe the right school(s) will see it. I was more concerned about not being able to tell the difference at first glance. I sometimes imagine my app getting pushed, not picked up and then tossed, off the table into the shredder pile, because I have a cumulative 3.5 or whatever instead of a 3.9 (idk the actual affect of one semester of 0).

None of the initial classes were sciences, so the contrast should be sharp there. I have faith somebody will notice the difference.

I understand the minor practical differences between MD and DO schools, but I may ultimately decide I want a different area of practice. A couple questions about MD vs DO while I'm here. It's probably very relevant to the topic anyhow.

1. What if I ultimately want to do surgery instead of family medicine as planned? Does DO limit my residency possibilities?
2. Are MDs more able to open private practices? Licensing/insurance/etc. Are privately-owned practices (long-term retirement age goal) a possibility for a DO designation?
3. Are DO schools more or less expensive than state MD schools these days?

 

[curbsideconsult]

1. What if I ultimately want to do surgery instead of family medicine as planned? Does DO limit my residency possibilities?

Not really, though some residencies will flat out say "no DOs."

2. Are MDs more able to open private practices? Licensing/insurance/etc. Are privately-owned practices (long-term retirement age goal) a possibility for a DO designation?

Owning your own practice is more and more difficult for everyone regardless of the letters after your name. But many docs, including DOs, have their own thriving DPC practices.

3. Are DO schools more or less expensive than state MD schools these days?

Yup.

 

[PowerOfWill]

If I get As in every single class for the 3 remaining years of undergrad, the best I can get is low 3s. Regardless of 'trend.' And that's not accounting for more difficult classes.

With a good MCAT score, will I likely even be considered for a state MD school near 3.2-3.3?

 

[jazzmetal]

I was more concerned about not being able to tell the difference at first glance. I sometimes imagine my app getting pushed, not picked up and then tossed, off the table into the shredder pile, because I have a cumulative 3.5 or whatever instead of a 3.9 (idk the actual affect of one semester of 0).

Unfortunately, that will happen at some schools. If only we knew which ones! I had a low original undergrad GPA more than 20 years ago and, despite a high postbac GPA over a lot of science units, my cGPA is still <3.4. I checked SDN for advice on which schools reward reinvention and are more open to nontrads. Considering how quickly I got some of my rejections, I think my low cGPA did hurt me even at those schools especially because my MCAT science subsections weren't stellar, although my overall score was pretty good.

I'd say keep working on that upward GPA trend and really make sure you're ready for the MCAT, especially the C/P and B/B subsections. I was also advised to write to each admissions committee after submitting my primary application to ask them to use my postbac GPA when screening. I didn't end up doing that... until the very last school I applied to. That is where my sole interview came from this cycle.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like more detail.

Best wishes!

 

[jazzmetal]

I think in Texas, on TMDSAS, they don't look at your grades 10+ years ago. Or you could get grades 10+ years ago expunged. Not sure about the rules but can look on TMDSAS website.

Texas does have a Fresh Start program that can erase grades more than 10 years old, but it takes some effort to be eligible so definitely check out how the rules would apply to you. When I looked into it for myself, my read is that I would have to: move to TX, establish residency there which takes a year and means buying a home and getting a job there, apply and get accepted to a TX undergrad declaring my intent to use Fresh Start, take another 25-ish units there (you need 90 undergrad units within the past ten years to apply to a TX med school), then apply to med school to start in fall 2020 at the earliest. Erasing my old grades would make an enormous difference in my cGPA so I'm considering it if I don't end up getting in somewhere this cycle, although at that point I'd likely be just too "nontrad" to get in.

 

[jazzmetal]

With a good MCAT score, will I likely even be considered for a state MD school near 3.2-3.3?

Depends on the state. Would be in an uphill battle in California and probably NY and others, but other states are geared so heavily toward in-state applicants that you'd still be competitive, e.g., New Mexico. Do you have a subscription to MSAR? It's around $30/year and shows average GPAs and MCAT scores for each school, sliced a number of different ways. Indispensable for making your school list.

 

[PowerOfWill]

Depends on the state. Would be in an uphill battle in California and probably NY and others, but other states are geared so heavily toward in-state applicants that you'd still be competitive, e.g., New Mexico. Do you have a subscription to MSAR? It's around $30/year and shows average GPAs and MCAT scores for each school, sliced a number of different ways. Indispensable for making your school list.

Will pick it up. Thanks much.

 

[jazzmetal]

Will pick it up. Thanks much.

You're welcome. They used to print a hard copy (I think) but it's all online now - here's the link: https://apps.aamc.org/msar-ui/#/landing