36yr old civ, 15yrs prior service AF, HPSP ?

[BerserkerKing]

Hello all,

In an effort to keep this brief, I'll just give you the important details. I'm 36 (nov bday) and have been a civilian for since April 2015 after 15yrs of active duty Air Force (enlisted). I've been doing cyber security consulting with Ernst & Young since I got out. I left the military due to my wife and I having a special needs son (2yrs old as of 20feb), and was gone too much as I spent most my time in Special Operations.

So, after a lot of thought, prayer, thought, arguing, thought lol I know that becoming a doctor is what I am truly meant to do. My son actually has a lot to do with this decision as he has a very rare disorder called Williams Syndrome. Anyway, the earliest I'd be able to begin medical school would be at 38yrs old, meaning I wouldn't be able to join the military until 43 most likely.

The question is, does this make me too old to be eligible for the HPSP? I was hoping that my prior service time would affect this, and perhaps negate years off of the cap. Any insight into this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Very Respectfully
Leonard

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[MusicDOc124]

I could be wrong, but if you stick with AF, I believe the age limit to begin HPSP is 48. Army is like 42, Navy like 36.

 

[BerserkerKing]

@Armyhealth

Also remember that you need 10 years post med school to retire in the officer pay grade.

Wow, this I didn't know; thanks for that insight!

 

[BerserkerKing]

I could be wrong, but if you stick with AF, I believe the age limit to begin HPSP is 48. Army is like 42, Navy like 36.

I found the following on a website detailing the HPSP

To join the Military, you have to be at least 18 years old (17 with parental consent). As for the upper age limit, it depends on the Service and the program:

• Health Professions Scholarship Program (HPSP): 36 (for the Navy, you can be no older than 42 at the time you enter Active Duty, following your degree completion)

 

[MusicDOc124]

I found the following on a website detailing the HPSP

To join the Military, you have to be at least 18 years old (17 with parental consent). As for the upper age limit, it depends on the Service and the program:

• Health Professions Scholarship Program (HPSP): 36 (for the Navy, you can be no older than 42 at the time you enter Active Duty, following your degree completion)

The 48 may just be unrelated to HPSP then. Call the recruiter and find out!

 

[MusicDOc124]

Also, click the link in my signature and take a read!

 

[schmoob]

You should try checking into USUHS also. Getting paid as an O1E >14YOS for 4 years on top of free tuition is a good deal. Having Tricare while in school is also going to be huge for you especially. I know that USUHS is actually actively looking for well-qualified applicants with enlisted service time.
By the time you pay back your obligation, you will have over 10 years commissioned time and will be ready to retire. I think it's a great deal for you and you should go for it (if eligible).

 

[Gastrapathy]

The best way for you to leverage your prior service is by taking loans and using voc rehab. Then go work at a VA where you can buy back your years and simultaneously finish out in the reserves.

Your 15 years will not be wasted that way. It's really the only way your decision to get out will work for you.

 

[deleted480308]

@Gastrapathy would the navy hcsp be an option here? That time in med school counting would put them over the retirement line

 

[schmoob]

The best way for you to leverage your prior service is by taking loans and using voc rehab. Then go work at a VA where you can buy back your years and simultaneously finish out in the reserves.

Your 15 years will not be wasted that way. It's really the only way your decision to get out will work for you.

150%.
Voc rehab is an amazing program. The tricky part is to get back into the service after being rated high enough to qualify for the program. I know it's been done before, but it all depends on what you're rated for.

@Gastrapathy would the navy hcsp be an option here? That time in med school counting would put them over the retirement line

You're right, HSCP is a great option for prior enlisted. But with 15 years in, he would be over that line by the time he pays his time back in either program. He would still need 10 years of commissioned service to retire as an officer, though. Also, remaining GI Bill entitlements should be considered, as well as the Type of school attended (public VS private) since chapter 33 has a ca0 for private schools.

 

[deleted480308]

If the only goal is 10yrs as officer for retirement. Commission into the guard as a med student officer but don't take any incentives. All your time in school counts and then you get out on yr 10

 

[BerserkerKing]

First and foremost, I want to thank each of you so much for your opinion and insight! Rather than quote each of you, please know that I'm extremely grateful for your response. I will absolutely begin to look into the various options mentioned and report my progress in this thread as a means to help out anyone else in a similar situation. I'd never heard of the USUHS before now, and if qualified it sounds like an amazing program; especially considering my son's needs and my need to keep a health insurance (my wife doesn't work due to my son's needs at the moment). I know that I'm meant to be a doctor; I know this without a doubt. Perhaps sometimes it takes 36yrs worth of life experiences to find one's calling I want to do this for my family, for my son, and for myself. Thanks again everyone!

Leonard

 

[MusicDOc124]

If the only goal is 10yrs as officer for retirement. Commission into the guard as a med student officer but don't take any incentives. All your time in school counts and then you get out on yr 10

Can you elaborate on this? I looked into this, and found some really funky info, and some "scary-sounding" info that could affect ones schooling.

 

[Gastrapathy]

@Gastrapathy would the navy hcsp be an option here? That time in med school counting would put them over the retirement line

Isn't HSCP enlisted time?

 

[Cooperd0g]

Isn't HSCP enlisted time?

Yes

 

[deleted480308]

Can you elaborate on this? I looked into this, and found some really funky info, and some "scary-sounding" info that could affect ones schooling.

such as...?

 

[MusicDOc124]

Isn't HSCP enlisted time?

It's enlisted time only for the duration of the program, but it's active duty. It simply pays you, but you'd have to pay for school on your own/with the GI Bill/loans, etc. Its mostly prior service who use it because you get E-6 - E-7 pay including your TIS, etc, but are commissioned upon graduation in relation to the degree had - (i.e. masters (say PA) to 1st Lt/LTjg, doctorate to Capt/LT).

 

[deleted480308]

Isn't HSCP enlisted time?

yeah, it gets them to the retirement faster but I forgot about the 10yr for officer rule

 

[MusicDOc124]

such as...?

That because you're part of the guard, it is up to them on whether or not they let you miss drill, which comes into play if you have drill the weekend for an exam, or maybe you have drill thursday-sunday timeframe with an exam on that thursday or friday. I was told that while most likely, they'd be fine with you missing, theres a chance they won't, and I spoke with someone who that has happened to (in particular a weekend before a Monday or Tuesday exam, and thus they lost a lot of review time).

 

[deleted480308]

That because you're part of the guard, it is up to them on whether or not they let you miss drill, which comes into play if you have drill the weekend for an exam, or maybe you have drill thursday-sunday timeframe with an exam on that thursday or friday. I was told that while most likely, they'd be fine with you missing, theres a chance they won't, and I spoke with someone who that has happened to (in particular a weekend before a Monday or Tuesday exam, and thus they lost a lot of review time).

This is totally accurate

 

[Cooperd0g]

The 10 years as an officer thing doesn't really matter much, except maybe for pride. The retirement pay is based on your highest 3 years of pay. If this guys does any program that makes him an officer and he chooses to retire before 10 years, his high three are going to be on the officer pay scale. His retirement paperwork and ID will just say E-x for rank.

 

[Cooperd0g]

http://themilitarywallet.com/military-forcing-officers-retire-with-enlisted-pay/

https://www.thebalance.com/understanding-military-retirement-pay-3332633

"Very important note: A little-known provision of the law, changed in 1980, states that if you are a commissioned officer or an enlisted with prior commissioned service, you must have at least 10 years of commissioned service to retire at your commissioned rank. If you have less than 10 years of commissioned service, and voluntarily retire, you retire at your enlisted rank, and only the highest 36 months of active duty enlisted base pay counts for retirement computation. The Service Secretary can waive this to 8 years. Note: The secretarial waiver authority expired on December 31, 2001."


There's a proposed change called the PROPER Act but I don't think it's passed.

Yes, you are right. I'm assuming it will pass because of the flack that happened when the Army force retired a bunch of dudes last year and this became and issue.

 

[SirGecko]

Yes, you are right. I'm assuming it will pass because of the flack that happened when the Army force retired a bunch of dudes last year and this became an issue.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that. Congress has been repeatedly trying to cut personnel costs over the last few years and through my google-fu it appears the PROPER act died in congress in 2014. That said I can't say if some other proposal is in place to change this or not as I didn't even know it was an issue until I read this thread. (so for all I know something else may have even already fixed it)

 

[Armyhealth]

So you are one of those unique cases we healthcare recruiters look for. You actually don't need a age waiver for the HPSP because of your prior service 43-15 would make your "real age" 28. However you would need an age in grade waiver meaning your age is not competitive for the grade you hold. They are correct you will have to do 10 years commissioned to retire in the grade you make. However if you don't you will just get the three highest year average (just like everyone else is saying.)

 

[Gastrapathy]

That's not what they are saying

 

[Armyhealth]

That's not what they are saying

Cooperdog did say that actually except the first part, I don't understand the hate gastrapthy. I am just trying to help, go watch frozen and "let it go"

 

[Armyhealth]

That's my daughters favorite movie!

Prior enlisted to officers that retire without the required Officer time can only use high three from their enlisted time. Which would mean retirement at E6/7 with 12-14 years compared to O3 with 18-20.

Right, unless you do 10 years service as an officer then they retire at the grade he finishes at. You also have to think of it this way, he will be on contract for 4 years putting him at 19 (4 active) plus his residency which he also gets credit for retirement. Say he does three years of residency that puts him at 22 (7 years active officer) Means he only needs to add three more years to retire as an officer.

 

[SirGecko]

Cooperdog did say that actually except the first part, I don't understand the hate gastrapthy. I am just trying to help, go watch frozen and "let it go"

I think his point was that your post made it sound like you were saying he would still get the high three of his pay (as an officer) when what people were saying is that he would be restricted to his high three while he was enlisted.

 

[BerserkerKing]

Excellent, thanks for the insight! I'd definitely be looking to serve the 10yrs as an officer. You mentioned residency counting towards the 10yrs; do you happen to have any documentation on that by any chance? If this is indeed the case, that's freaking great news! lol. Thanks in advance.

Leonard

 

[MusicDOc124]

Excellent, thanks for the insight! I'd definitely be looking to serve the 10yrs as an officer. You mentioned residency counting towards the 10yrs; do you happen to have any documentation on that by any chance? If this is indeed the case, that's freaking great news! lol. Thanks in advance.

Leonard

I don't know where to find particular documentation, but if you do a mil. residency (which is required if you don't do additional paperwork to do civilian deferment, or if you do a GMO), then your residency is simply active duty. Just like bootcamp and MOS training was active duty.

The only thing mil. res. doesn't count for is pay-back time. HPSP payback is paid back simultaneously with incurring new time in residency. (i.e. 4 years schools, 5 years residency for surgery for instance, means you serve 5 years minimum post residency ---- or 3 re residency, you serve 4 years back as minimum).

 

[Gastrapathy]

Cooperdog did say that actually except the first part, I don't understand the hate gastrapthy. I am just trying to help, go watch frozen and "let it go"

I don't hate you. I also don't respect you. I know that you and your ilk want young future physicians to join the military. You advise them about that decision from a position that you believe to be informed and you give them the impression that you are informed. But you can't be. Whether you are dishonest or inaccurate doesn't change the harm that you do.

Your comment in this thread illustrated exactly what I mean. You "summarized" a complex issue, leaving out the fine print (which you did before as well https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/a-year-in-the-army.1237723/#post-18539777 ) and wrote a statement that isn't quite a lie but isn't the whole truth.

Recruiting is a voluntary job and you've chosen a task that requires you to either accept that you are selling a product you can't understand or convince yourself of something impossible. I'm not going to guess which it is for you.

 

[pgg]

Recruiting is a voluntary job

Do recruiters like recruiting duty, on the whole? Are they sought-after billets because they're fun/easy or because they're very carer-enhancing?

I wonder if it's about as "voluntary" as when I "volunteered" to sit in the DSS barrel with a smile for a year to get myself promoted. It wasn't all bad, but I won't do it again.

 

[Armyhealth]

I don't hate you. I also don't respect you. I know that you and your ilk want young future physicians to join the military. You advise them about that decision from a position that you believe to be informed and you give them the impression that you are informed. But you can't be. Whether you are dishonest or inaccurate doesn't change the harm that you do.

Your comment in this thread illustrated exactly what I mean. You "summarized" a complex issue, leaving out the fine print (which you did before as well https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/a-year-in-the-army.1237723/#post-18539777 ) and wrote a statement that isn't quite a lie but isn't the whole truth.

Recruiting is a voluntary job and you've chosen a task that requires you to either accept that you are selling a product you can't understand or convince yourself of something impossible. I'm not going to guess which it is for you.

So while I don't understand much at all about being a doctor in the military please do not try to say you understand what it is like to be a recruiter. It is NOT a voluntary job, I was DA selected meaning I had no choice. They take the top 10% of NCO's and DA select them for three years and train them to be recruiters. After another 15 months I have the choice to go back to my old job or covert to being a permanent recruiter.

 

[Armyhealth]

Do recruiters like recruiting duty, on the whole? Are they sought-after billets because they're fun/easy or because they're very carer-enhancing?

I wonder if it's about as "voluntary" as when I "volunteered" to sit in the DSS barrel with a smile for a year to get myself promoted. It wasn't all bad, but I won't do it again.

I was DA selected, I had no choice in the matter. I enjoy it because I get to help those who actually need the money and have no other choice. For instance I had a young lady who was accepted into medical school and came to me because her mother had been diagnosed with cancer and her father was a former police officer that was killed on duty three years ago. She had no money and no other choice and the Army helped her fulfill her dream.

 

[d2305]

I've heard horror stories about recruiters getting unfair treatment and relieved for cause. With the volunteer force, they're necessary.