37 reasons not to be a military dentist

[MTBtony]

this is only true if you are not applying to OMFS.

if you apply to OMFS, you cannot apply to another residency (except for the 1-year AEGD.)

Well that would have sucked to find out later! At least it is still the best route to take if not accepted to OMFS straight out of school to be made more competitive. Thanks for that info!

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[BCDSDentalMav]

I am in my 4th year of dental school with the Air Force HPSP scholarship. I have been accepted into the OMFS program at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas and am more than happy to share my experiences so far.

To comment on some of the above mentioned points, which are pretty accurate:

-With the Air Force, usually you can only apply to the 1-year AEGD residency after applying to the OMFS residency...but that's year-to-year. This past year the applications were due in May/June 2010 in order to apply for a 2011/2012 slot. I found out around July/August that I was accepted and where I would be going. Around that time was when the application for other specialties were going out, so if I did not get into the OMFS program and wanted to do something else, there was a chance to do so.

-I am doing a year in between (been accepted for 2012), and there is a reason for it. First, I was happy to do so because I wanted to cement all the knowledge I gained from Dental School and it gives me a chance to acclimate to military life without the burden of a very VERY difficult residency. Another reason, as explained above, is that most still have to do their officer training after they graduate so they will miss the first 2-3 months of residency waiting for that. Another reason, for the Air Force at least, is that they accept students up to 2 years in advanced. As I stated, when I applied in 2010 it was for 1 or 2 slots in 2011 and 6 slots in 2012. The 2011 slots most likely went to dentists already in the Air Force or first year AEGD dentists in the Air Force.

-For those that are a little upset about not going straight into residency, don't be. The experience you get as a GP in the military is great! Also, remember that the HPSP program is designed to provide the military with general dentists...not specialists. Though many would disagree, transition from civilian life to military life can be difficult, and the last thing you want is to be pulling 20+hour days at residency while trying to do it. The Air Force calls it "blue-ing you in" (ie getting you caught up in the military).

Again, the info above is just my experience in the Air Force, I cannot say anything about the other branches. All-in-all I would not change my decision. If you want to do the military you have to know that you are in the military. It seems like a silly thing to say, but many people do not know what the military entails and look at the HPSP program as a free ride and nothing more. Do not go into the HPSP program if you do not want to be military. You will move around, you may be deployed, but you will have a great experience if you let yourself.

 

[Kahr]

I am in my 4th year of dental school with the Air Force HPSP scholarship. I have been accepted into the OMFS program at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas and am more than happy to share my experiences so far.

To comment on some of the above mentioned points, which are pretty accurate:

-With the Air Force, usually you can only apply to the 1-year AEGD residency after applying to the OMFS residency...but that's year-to-year. This past year the applications were due in May/June 2010 in order to apply for a 2011/2012 slot. I found out around July/August that I was accepted and where I would be going. Around that time was when the application for other specialties were going out, so if I did not get into the OMFS program and wanted to do something else, there was a chance to do so.

-I am doing a year in between (been accepted for 2012), and there is a reason for it. First, I was happy to do so because I wanted to cement all the knowledge I gained from Dental School and it gives me a chance to acclimate to military life without the burden of a very VERY difficult residency. Another reason, as explained above, is that most still have to do their officer training after they graduate so they will miss the first 2-3 months of residency waiting for that. Another reason, for the Air Force at least, is that they accept students up to 2 years in advanced. As I stated, when I applied in 2010 it was for 1 or 2 slots in 2011 and 6 slots in 2012. The 2011 slots most likely went to dentists already in the Air Force or first year AEGD dentists in the Air Force.

-For those that are a little upset about not going straight into residency, don't be. The experience you get as a GP in the military is great! Also, remember that the HPSP program is designed to provide the military with general dentists...not specialists. Though many would disagree, transition from civilian life to military life can be difficult, and the last thing you want is to be pulling 20+hour days at residency while trying to do it. The Air Force calls it "blue-ing you in" (ie getting you caught up in the military).

Again, the info above is just my experience in the Air Force, I cannot say anything about the other branches. All-in-all I would not change my decision. If you want to do the military you have to know that you are in the military. It seems like a silly thing to say, but many people do not know what the military entails and look at the HPSP program as a free ride and nothing more. Do not go into the HPSP program if you do not want to be military. You will move around, you may be deployed, but you will have a great experience if you let yourself.

I don't have any specific questions right now, but I think if you'd be willing to continue updating the community on how things go from here occasionally, it would be fantastic. (you could also help AFDDS with some of the questions in the "ask an air force dentist" thread once you get started, probably a better/logical place than this thread at least). After Krmower shared his amazing Army dentist blog, I've been trying to see if someone would do something like that for the Air Force, but it seems to be slim pickings. It'd be amazing if you did something like that! Anyway, thanks for sharing, I'm sure you'll provide a great service for the forums and the endless torrent of curious posters that follow.

 

[MTBtony]

Wow, great info BCDSDentalMav! That really puts a lot of questions at ease regarding the time frame and how to go about applying for specialties. I am applying for Navy HPSP, but I assume it is very similar in application procedures and what not.

 

[DjFlossin]

On the one hand I have an Army Recruiter hounding me with phone calls and emails, letting me know that I'm basically in for the Army Scholarship and then on the other is my wife, who is very weary and unhappy for me to even considering the HPSP.

I have read this entire post from the beginning to end and still haven't come up with the conclusion of whether I want to do the Army HPSP. Any feedback on my particular situation will help.

The Dental School I want to go to is unfortunately one of the most expensive schools as far as tuition and living expenses, so it just makes logical sense to go for the scholarship. The total "budgeted" cost for each year (tuition and living expenses) is around 93K a year. That's over 370K for 4 years plus interest!!

The Pros for me:
100% tuition plus 20K sign on (no debt), gain clinical and practical experience after graduating, get to travel and see other parts of U.S/World.

The Cons:
Being deployed for 6+ mos. and away from my family is a reality, (this is my biggest con) . I know I'd be more miserable if it was even longer.

I've read through the 37 reasons of why not to join, but that was posted 5 years ago and would like to know if some or all of that can still be said today for Dentists currently serving their 4 years active duty.

Also some more on my specific situation. My wife is currently working as a nurse and will also graduate with a masters as a licensed Nurse Practitioner. She lets me know that she will make 100K to 120K starting when she graduates and that she will help offset the dental school loans that I will incur if I don't do the HPSP. I guess I want to know what would you guys do if you were in my situation?

My thoughts are, yes, my wife will make great money, but is that enough to offset my total loan of 370K w/o the HPSP? I don't want to be a poor dentist for a long time. Or should I endure the 4 years under the Army HPSP, uproot my wife and potentially my future kids on the whim of having no debt? I know that there are plenty of sacrifices along with positives, and they've been whirling around in my head for quite some time now .

If I was still single I would of signed up a long time ago, b/c I don't really mind the sacrifices that were mentioned. But I'm not single, and I also have to mind what my wife wants also. She never the less will support me in whatever my decision is, but I know she wants me to say no all together to the HPSP b/c she thinks that we can survive on her future salary.

I know the decision is ultimately up to me and my wife, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[del Sol DOHC]

On the one hand I have an Army Recruiter hounding me with phone calls and emails, letting me know that I'm basically in for the Army Scholarship and then on the other is my wife, who is very weary and unhappy for me to even considering the HPSP.

I have read this entire post from the beginning to end and still haven't come up with the conclusion of whether I want to do the Army HPSP. Any feedback on my particular situation will help.

The Dental School I want to go to is unfortunately one of the most expensive schools as far as tuition and living expenses, so it just makes logical sense to go for the scholarship. The total "budgeted" cost for each year (tuition and living expenses) is around 93K a year. That's over 370K for 4 years plus interest!!

The Pros for me:
100% tuition plus 20K sign on (no debt), gain clinical and practical experience after graduating, get to travel and see other parts of U.S/World.

The Cons:
Being deployed for 6+ mos. and away from my family is a reality, (this is my biggest con) . I know I'd be more miserable if it was even longer.

I've read through the 37 reasons of why not to join, but that was posted 5 years ago and would like to know if some or all of that can still be said today for Dentists currently serving their 4 years active duty.

Also some more on my specific situation. My wife is currently working as a nurse and will also graduate with a masters as a licensed Nurse Practitioner. She lets me know that she will make 100K to 120K starting when she graduates and that she will help offset the dental school loans that I will incur if I don't do the HPSP. I guess I want to know what would you guys do if you were in my situation?

My thoughts are, yes, my wife will make great money, but is that enough to offset my total loan of 370K w/o the HPSP? I don't want to be a poor dentist for a long time. Or should I endure the 4 years under the Army HPSP, uproot my wife and potentially my future kids on the whim of having no debt? I know that there are plenty of sacrifices along with positives, and they've been whirling around in my head for quite some time now .

If I was still single I would of signed up a long time ago, b/c I don't really mind the sacrifices that were mentioned. But I'm not single, and I also have to mind what my wife wants also. She never the less will support me in whatever my decision is, but I know she wants me to say no all together to the HPSP b/c she thinks that we can survive on her future salary.

I know the decision is ultimately up to me and my wife, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

From reading your post, it sounds like you want to do it just because you want to avoid debt. You don't really mention that you actually want to serve in the military. That seems like a giant red flag to me. It's never a good idea to take HPSP just for the money. It is almost a guarantee that you will be miserable. You're wife is right, $370k is not that much when both of you will be pulling in 6 figure salaries. What if you sign up and then get stationed overseas where your wife is unable to find a job? You don't sound very gung-ho about serving, you don't want to deploy, and you don't need the money, so why do it?

 

[baseballjunkie]

From reading the post, it sounds like you want to do just because you want to avoid debt. You don't really mention that you actually want to serve in the military. That seems like a red flag to me. It's never a good idea to take HPSP just for the money. It is almost a guarantee that you will be miserable. You're wife is right, $370k is not that much when both of you will be pulling in 6 figure salaries. What if you sign up and then get stationed overseas where your wife is unable to find a job? You don't sound very gung-ho about serving, you don't want to deploy, and you don't need the money, so why do it?

I agree with this as well. I joined the Navy and am going to an instate school. For me, it wasn't about the money, but the opportunities to experience things that I would never get the chance to in private practice. If you're doing it simply for financial reasons, and you both will be in six figures, then I think it's a no brainer. There are other ways to help pay off debt. Loan repayment for NHSC is $25k a year, which can put significant dents into your debt. However, if you take the positives vs. the negatives in your particular situation: it seems like your either choosing money vs. your wife and future kids. No brainer. Family trumps all.

 

[krmower]

On the one hand I have an Army Recruiter hounding me with phone calls and emails, letting me know that I'm basically in for the Army Scholarship and then on the other is my wife, who is very weary and unhappy for me to even considering the HPSP.

I have read this entire post from the beginning to end and still haven't come up with the conclusion of whether I want to do the Army HPSP. Any feedback on my particular situation will help.

The Dental School I want to go to is unfortunately one of the most expensive schools as far as tuition and living expenses, so it just makes logical sense to go for the scholarship. The total "budgeted" cost for each year (tuition and living expenses) is around 93K a year. That's over 370K for 4 years plus interest!!

The Pros for me:
100% tuition plus 20K sign on (no debt), gain clinical and practical experience after graduating, get to travel and see other parts of U.S/World.

The Cons:
Being deployed for 6+ mos. and away from my family is a reality, (this is my biggest con) . I know I'd be more miserable if it was even longer.

I've read through the 37 reasons of why not to join, but that was posted 5 years ago and would like to know if some or all of that can still be said today for Dentists currently serving their 4 years active duty.

Also some more on my specific situation. My wife is currently working as a nurse and will also graduate with a masters as a licensed Nurse Practitioner. She lets me know that she will make 100K to 120K starting when she graduates and that she will help offset the dental school loans that I will incur if I don't do the HPSP. I guess I want to know what would you guys do if you were in my situation?

My thoughts are, yes, my wife will make great money, but is that enough to offset my total loan of 370K w/o the HPSP? I don't want to be a poor dentist for a long time. Or should I endure the 4 years under the Army HPSP, uproot my wife and potentially my future kids on the whim of having no debt? I know that there are plenty of sacrifices along with positives, and they've been whirling around in my head for quite some time now .

If I was still single I would of signed up a long time ago, b/c I don't really mind the sacrifices that were mentioned. But I'm not single, and I also have to mind what my wife wants also. She never the less will support me in whatever my decision is, but I know she wants me to say no all together to the HPSP b/c she thinks that we can survive on her future salary.

I know the decision is ultimately up to me and my wife, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

I've been active duty Army for 9 years now, and I agree with everyone else - if you are doing it only for the money then don't. If you think there may be some other benefits to joining that may appeal to you - then that's different.

Deployments aren't a sure thing - but definately a possibility - fortunately they are not as bad as you may think

 

[cgurries]

On the one hand I have an Army Recruiter hounding me with phone calls and emails, letting me know that I'm basically in for the Army Scholarship and then on the other is my wife, who is very weary and unhappy for me to even considering the HPSP.

I have read this entire post from the beginning to end and still haven't come up with the conclusion of whether I want to do the Army HPSP. Any feedback on my particular situation will help.

The Dental School I want to go to is unfortunately one of the most expensive schools as far as tuition and living expenses, so it just makes logical sense to go for the scholarship. The total "budgeted" cost for each year (tuition and living expenses) is around 93K a year. That's over 370K for 4 years plus interest!!

The Pros for me:
100% tuition plus 20K sign on (no debt), gain clinical and practical experience after graduating, get to travel and see other parts of U.S/World.

The Cons:
Being deployed for 6+ mos. and away from my family is a reality, (this is my biggest con) . I know I'd be more miserable if it was even longer.

I've read through the 37 reasons of why not to join, but that was posted 5 years ago and would like to know if some or all of that can still be said today for Dentists currently serving their 4 years active duty.

Also some more on my specific situation. My wife is currently working as a nurse and will also graduate with a masters as a licensed Nurse Practitioner. She lets me know that she will make 100K to 120K starting when she graduates and that she will help offset the dental school loans that I will incur if I don't do the HPSP. I guess I want to know what would you guys do if you were in my situation?

My thoughts are, yes, my wife will make great money, but is that enough to offset my total loan of 370K w/o the HPSP? I don't want to be a poor dentist for a long time. Or should I endure the 4 years under the Army HPSP, uproot my wife and potentially my future kids on the whim of having no debt? I know that there are plenty of sacrifices along with positives, and they've been whirling around in my head for quite some time now .

If I was still single I would of signed up a long time ago, b/c I don't really mind the sacrifices that were mentioned. But I'm not single, and I also have to mind what my wife wants also. She never the less will support me in whatever my decision is, but I know she wants me to say no all together to the HPSP b/c she thinks that we can survive on her future salary.

I know the decision is ultimately up to me and my wife, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

I agree with what everyone else here is saying.
I am in a similar situation financially. My school is also one of the most expensive and located in the most expensive city in the country to live in, so the debt i would incur would be very substantial. My fiancee will be a nurse, and the starting salary for most nurses in San Fran is ~$90k per year; plenty to get by on. If i wanted to, we could easily get by on loans, and with both of our salaries once i am done with school, have the debt paid off in no time and live comfortably (although i know some dentists pay it off slowly and still live VERY comfortably since having that debt around helps them a little bit with some taxes).
However, my fiancee is very excited and wants me to participate in the HPSP as much as i do-for the other reasons others have listed (experience, adventure, community, etc.) She knows that it is very likely to be deployed, but is willing to accept it (she hates it, but can accept it...or so she says now).
A mentor of mine who accepted this same scholarship years ago gave me some excellent advice. Only accept the scholarship if your [future] wife is strong enough and can handle herself without you, who is 100% supportive of the decision. The military life will affect her much more than you. You know what you are signing up for and can handle what they throw at you and what challenges you face. She chooses none of it, but has to endure all of it and more. While you are gone, she is worrying, while you are busy and perhaps deployed, she has to keep the house in order and maintain both her life and your life back at home.
Bottom line is that based on what you are saying, the program may not be the right choice. You will easily be able to pay off those debts, i wouldn't worry about it if i were you. If you think you will make a competent dentist (which i hope you do since you are going to school), then you should make more than enough to pay off those debts, especially with your wife supplementing your income.
Hope this helps

 

[gppa715]

To balance out the post the few advantages of the military HPSP are:
1. Chance to get your speed and skill up.
2. Education opportunities, official and just working with specialists.

Sorry to dig up this thread from its grave... but I just have one question i wanna ask. (please bear with me, i'm going to be 1st year dental student this fall )

BQuad noted that some adv of the military HPSP are above. How does serving in the military (or navy, air force for that matter) through HPSP give you an edge in getting your skills/speed up? from what i've read in other threads, it seems like residency program of HPSP is the creme of all benefits, but I don't know how HPSP residency is better than your regular residency after dental school.

Similar question regarding BQuad's point # 2 -- won't you be working with a group of specialists even if you decide to further advance your skills by taking AEGD (as a civilian, of course)?

Thank you for your time! I appreciate all your inputs

 

[DocJL]

On the one hand I have an Army Recruiter hounding me with phone calls and emails, letting me know that I'm basically in for the Army Scholarship and then on the other is my wife, who is very weary and unhappy for me to even considering the HPSP.

I have read this entire post from the beginning to end and still haven't come up with the conclusion of whether I want to do the Army HPSP. Any feedback on my particular situation will help.

The Dental School I want to go to is unfortunately one of the most expensive schools as far as tuition and living expenses, so it just makes logical sense to go for the scholarship. The total "budgeted" cost for each year (tuition and living expenses) is around 93K a year. That's over 370K for 4 years plus interest!!

The Pros for me:
100% tuition plus 20K sign on (no debt), gain clinical and practical experience after graduating, get to travel and see other parts of U.S/World.

The Cons:
Being deployed for 6+ mos. and away from my family is a reality, (this is my biggest con) . I know I'd be more miserable if it was even longer.

I've read through the 37 reasons of why not to join, but that was posted 5 years ago and would like to know if some or all of that can still be said today for Dentists currently serving their 4 years active duty.

Also some more on my specific situation. My wife is currently working as a nurse and will also graduate with a masters as a licensed Nurse Practitioner. She lets me know that she will make 100K to 120K starting when she graduates and that she will help offset the dental school loans that I will incur if I don't do the HPSP. I guess I want to know what would you guys do if you were in my situation?

My thoughts are, yes, my wife will make great money, but is that enough to offset my total loan of 370K w/o the HPSP? I don't want to be a poor dentist for a long time. Or should I endure the 4 years under the Army HPSP, uproot my wife and potentially my future kids on the whim of having no debt? I know that there are plenty of sacrifices along with positives, and they've been whirling around in my head for quite some time now .

If I was still single I would of signed up a long time ago, b/c I don't really mind the sacrifices that were mentioned. But I'm not single, and I also have to mind what my wife wants also. She never the less will support me in whatever my decision is, but I know she wants me to say no all together to the HPSP b/c she thinks that we can survive on her future salary.

I know the decision is ultimately up to me and my wife, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

It sounds to me like you might be best to "err on the side of" NOT going into the military. As other posters have stated, you do not sound interested at all in actual service, and are mainly basing this on financial considerations (not that there is anything wrong with that).

The fact that your wife has a great profession, and will be able to work not only when you are in school, but after, is huge. When I was in dental school (over a decade ago) there were NO 4 year full rides (I guess there wasn't as much of a shortage of dentists in the military), the AF had 1 year scholarships, and the Navy had 2 year, the Army had 2 year, and a handful of 3 year. I was prior service so I knew exactly what I was getting into, and was thrilled to get a 2 year HSCP from the Navy. The program paid me just over 50k for the last 2 years of my school.

Here's where my wife and I almost regretted it badly. My wife finished her BS in Medical technology when I finished my D2 year. She made about 50k a year (so our financial situation was wonderful last 2 years of dental school, from being 2 poor students to having plenty of spending cash, we even bought a "new"(2 year old used) car! One thing we had NOT figured on, was that we might lose HER income when we moved for the military. My first assignment was a GPR at Bethesda. She found a job within 2 months, but it was only part time, so the loss of income for that year was probably 15-20k. Then I was assigned to a very remote area. 29 Palms Marine Corps base in California. only a tiny hospital 30 miles from the base, then another 40 miles to Palm Springs/Palm Desert for a couple more medium size hospitals. She did get a great job at the local (Joshua Tree Hi Desert Medical Center) after a few months. Thank god. She was so bored she wanted to apply for a cashier job at one of the local highway convenience/gas stores, which I forbid because of the high crime (I didn't want my wife robbed - convenience store clerk is actually one of the most dangerous jobs in the country in terms of being a potential crime victim).

She ended up being very happy with her job in that small hospital for the last 2.5 years we spent there, but she never got more than 30 hours a week (and we had no kids until after we left the Navy, so she was more than willing and able to work full time).

The bottom line?

We probably gave back $50k in HER POTENTIAL INCOME during my 4 year commitment. So financially the scholarship was a wash. The biggest difference would be that it certainly made the last 2 years of dental school more enjoyable!

Would I do it again? probably not, but I have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, and I can now say what I "should have done" which would have been much better for my career. All in all, though, the military was a positive experience which provided a good place to develop my skills, which helps in this slow economy. I took out 3 sets of 3rd molars this last week, including several bony impactions that would be way beyond the scope of training of the vast majority of general dentists, and all 3 sets added up to an extra 2k of low overhead revenue in my pocket!

Let me know if I can provide any other info for you, and good luck!

 

[DjFlossin]

Thank you everyone for all the great and helpful responses. You guys are right, my heart is really not into it. When it comes down to the nitty gritty, I really am just doing it for the money. I guess I needed to hear it from other people to shake me out of my thought process.

Having my wife move with me to all the possible places that the military would send me to, would probably be detrimental to her career path (thanks DocJL for bringing that up). Also, I never really thought about the other side of how my wife would fare if I was deployed, and how she would of had double the task of keeping house, family, and her career in check with me away from it all (thanks cgurries for that point).

I'll let my recruiter know that i am no longer interested. Thanks again for all the thoughts and responses!!

 

[UBDent19]

Bump....

I am thinking about the HPSP and this thread is VERY helpful. I would like to see if anybody currently out there has anything to add.

 

[alej1020]

So would you say that it is easier to adjust to a military life if one is not married?

 

[DocJL]

So would you say that it is easier to adjust to a military life if one is not married?

absolutely.

if you are married, your spouse has to shoulder the burden of being a military spouse. frequent moves, often to less than desireable places to live. time apart if you deploy or are out for training. possibly giving up career opportunities of their own if you both decide that being together is of greater importance. and the list goes on.

 

[AFDDS]

absolutely.

if you are married, your spouse has to shoulder the burden of being a military spouse. frequent moves, often to less than desireable places to live. time apart if you deploy or are out for training. possibly giving up career opportunities of their own if you both decide that being together is of greater importance. and the list goes on.

I would say it varies by person and by couples. My wife gave up a career to be a stay at home mom after I came on active duty. She wouldn't change a thing. She has no regrets and neither do I. Our transition was easy. When I deployed, neither one of us liked it, but we knew it was a risk being in the military, so we aren't bitter about it. I'm glad I deployed and would go again.

If your spouse wants a career and has a career field that isn't conducive to moving, they probably won't like it and it won't help their career.

Everyone will be different. I think this is a personal issue you will have to discuss with your spouse. let them know the possibility of deploying is real and you will move. If they don't want to do it, don't join.

 

[UBDent19]

AFDDS, did you have kids while deployed? I'm worried about it being tough on them. I think my wife would be fine.

 

[Hedgy]

AFDDS, did you have kids while deployed? I'm worried about it being tough on them. I think my wife would be fine.

I think it depends on the age of the kids and how independent your wife is. Also, location matters. I was overseas and deployed for 10/24 months (fortunately, not all at one time). The spouse's network was awesome, and even though we are out of the Navy, my wife made many close friends whose husbands still serve and we keep in touch with them. I think overseas billets make you and your family go out and meet others because they are in the same situation. You'll hear good and bad on the effects the service has on families. When I was being recruited a CAPT that told me to talk to both of his kids, one hated the service and the other loved it. I had 2 little kids at the time and didn't want to deploy, but knew I was going. I did my research on ships, FMF, sea bees, etc. and found a ship overseas that deployed, but only went out every other month or so (USS Emory S. Land). One of the best things I ever did was that tour.

I really enjoyed the service, but I'm a WWII junky and ate all the military stuff up. I still got out. I have a successful private practice, but still have fond memories of my time and often think of returning after my kids graduate. My friend stayed in and did a perio residency. He hates the admin stuff and can't wait to get out. I still visit friends from my ship in almost every city I go to for CE or vacation (kudos to facebook).

Just as an aside and my personal opinion, if you have a chance to deploy and have a family, take an overseas tour. You'll see the world and experience culture that you never may do again. You won't have the burden of deployment (although that is changing).

Also, I think regarding duty stations. I think those that are stationed stateside go through this "go to work, go home, make 1/2 to 1/3 what my peers make in private practice". If you aren't stateside, you don't go through that. Also, the guaranteed retirement is much more enticing with an up/down economy. I hate stocks right now and am suffering from 401k burnout. I'm looking into real estate and other avenues for investing.

 

[UBDent19]

Great feedback Hedgy. Thanks!

 

[AFDDS]

AFDDS, did you have kids while deployed? I'm worried about it being tough on them. I think my wife would be fine.

My son was 5 and entering kindergarten when I deployed. I missed his first day of school, the loss of his first tooth, his birthday, my 15th anniversary, Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Years. Not to mention most of the college football season.

I hate that I missed those things, but it's a risk to take. I was lucky and had skype the whole time I was deployed and getting to see him 4-5 times a week via skype was great. I think it could have been worse if I didn't have it. I think it helped him quite a bit too.

My wife is very independent and she was proud of me for going. We lived on base and had tons of great neighbors. many of them had a spouse deployed as well. The support system for spouses is great.

 

[krmower]

AFDDS, did you have kids while deployed? I'm worried about it being tough on them. I think my wife would be fine.

I am currently deployed, coming home soon - I have blogged about my deployed time for the whole 6 months.

I have 3 kids - and life goes on - they seem to be doing well, but it has been tough on my wife at times - neighbors and friends have helped out a lot.

http://armystrongstories.com/blogger/kendall-mower/

 

[UBDent19]

krmower, how often are you and/or your family able to take advantage of military hop flights? Have you found it to be a worthwhile benefit of being in the Army? I have heard it can be very difficult to find a flight so soldiers just end up buying commercial flights.

 

[krmower]

krmower, how often are you and/or your family able to take advantage of military hop flights? Have you found it to be a worthwhile benefit of being in the Army? I have heard it can be very difficult to find a flight so soldiers just end up buying commercial flights.

Since only certain Air Force bases fly to other certain Air Force bases it has not benefited me personally when we plan our trips back home to see family.

YMMV - Your experience will vary based on where you try to go, and what time of the year you travel. I have had many friends that have used it and enjoyed it - best time is off peak travel. I have had other friends that have used it, gotten stuck and ended up having to buy a one-way trip back.

I personally don't count it as a benefit since I don't use it. When I'm retired that may definately change.

 

[amphiprion]

Talking with my recruiters, they said that one of the most common reasons why dentists leave the military is because their spouse is unhappy with the arrangement.

If your wife is already frowning at the prospect, it is best to let it go. If you're more interested in no debt than a marriage then it's your call. But this sort of thing can lead to separations/divorces.

 

[del Sol DOHC]

If your wife is already frowning at the prospect, it is best to let it go.

I agree. If your wife is not going to be happy with military life, it is best to just let her go. There are plenty of fish in the sea, and your country needs you.

 

[agentghost]

I agree. If your wife is not going to be happy with military life, it is best to just let her go. There are plenty of fish in the sea, and your country needs you.

are you serious? are you suggesting that he divorce his wife and join the military?

 

[del Sol DOHC]

are you serious? are you suggesting that he divorce his wife and join the military?

I was being facetious.

 

[Roto Picante]

Ha ha that's hilarious. I think the funniest part was that he thought you were being serious.

If you are willing to serve your country with at least some level of personal sacrifice, then take the HPSP scholarship. (Notice, I didn't say anything about money) If not, in my opinion the military isn't for you.

 

[Shadownght12]

What is the likelihood of being deployed?
What locations are most being deployed to?
My recruiter made it seem like Dentists rarely get deployed?

 

[krmower]

What is the likelihood of being deployed?
What locations are most being deployed to?
My recruiter made it seem like Dentists rarely get deployed?

Please look through the threads. All the services have commented on this many times over. Also please remember that with Iraq gone, and Afghanistan winding down by 2014 - deployments will be very low.

 

[vellnueve]

Also please remember that with Iraq gone, and Afghanistan winding down by 2014 - deployments will be very low.

For the Army/Air Force. Navy deployments are unlikely to change significantly although it would make sense that there might be fewer Individual Augmentees sent overseas.

 

[white fang]

Please look through the threads. All the services have commented on this many times over. Also please remember that with Iraq gone, and Afghanistan winding down by 2014 - deployments will be very low.

Seems like that is only true of the politics of today are identical to the politics of 4 years from now. To me it seems likely will be will involved in Iran, North Korea or some other country by then. It seems best to plan on on deploying, correct?

 

[vellnueve]

Seems like that is only true of the politics of today are identical to the politics of 4 years from now. To me it seems likely will be will involved in Iran, North Korea or some other country by then. It seems best to plan on on deploying, correct?

As has been stated several times - if you're joining the military you should plan on being deployed.

 

[JHDENT]

I'm still pre-dent, and in a serious relationship. We've talked about marriage, and to be honest, sometimes it scares me, and sometimes it doesn't at all. With me very strongly considering HPSP, I'm even more worried about settling down so early. someone mentioned it would be much easier to adjust to as a single person. Any advice?

 

[MatthewLeeDDS]

I'm still pre-dent, and in a serious relationship. We've talked about marriage, and to be honest, sometimes it scares me, and sometimes it doesn't at all. With me very strongly considering HPSP, I'm even more worried about settling down so early. someone mentioned it would be much easier to adjust to as a single person. Any advice?

You've got to decide what you're going to do with your life. If she's a part of it, awesome! Sit down and talk about the possibilities of you applying for (and potentially receiving) this scholarship. I was in a similar situation in undergrad and was pretty sure I was with the girl I was going to marry (we're married now). I had dated someone previously who was not so hot on the idea of the scholarship and we broke up for different reasons but my current wife is very supportive of it and excited for both of us. I would talk to this girl and see what her impressions are. It's not like your life is going to be flung into oblivion but there's a pretty darn good chance you'll be moving after school, especially if there are no AF bases nearby. Just be honest with yourself first (do you really want this?), then her (how would she feel if you did it and you two got married), and make a decision. Might as well apply by the way. It's extremely competitive and you may not even get it at all. But you don't want it to be too late later after you sat and thought about it for 2 years.

 

[Shazzam]

Why wouldn't it be worth it if I were to join on financial incentive alone? I plugged in the following into a loan calculator:


Loan Balance: $375,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $375,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 7.30%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 30 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00
Total Years in College: 4 years
Average Debt per Year: $93,750.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $2,570.89
Number of Payments: 361

Cumulative Payments: $925,521.68
Total Interest Paid: $550,521.68


Unless I'm doing something completely wrong, it would seem that I'd be making almost 285,000 dollars NET / year with the HPSP (231.25k from loan payment and ~67k from military pretax salary.) I can't see how the civilian side could compare.

 

[ChapelHillT]

Well I'm a brand new dental student and brand new HSCP recipient, so I don't ahve experience on my side. But...I'd say your calculations are technically correct but perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. I say its an exaggeration because most people (to my knowledge) do not go for the full 30 year repayment plan, but rather they prefer to try to get the debt taken care of before then. You also will be paid much more than 67k/year in the military when you consider all factors (base pay + BAS + BAH + special pays (VSP and ASP))....in my rough calculations the pay came to somewhere around 100k in 2012 dollars, but obviously that goes up the more years/promotions you have.

That being said, from what I hear UNANIMOUSLY, do not join just for the money! Sounds great now from our position 4 years away from payback, but when it's time to pay the piper and serve your service obligation, you will have to have some affinity for wanting to serve int he military or you will be miserable.

I wouldn't touch 375k worth of debt without the military though. That's just going to drown anyone who has to fund it fully via loans. Best of luck...

Why wouldn't it be worth it if I were to join on financial incentive alone? I plugged in the following into a loan calculator:


Loan Balance: $375,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $375,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 7.30%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 30 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00
Total Years in College: 4 years
Average Debt per Year: $93,750.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $2,570.89
Number of Payments: 361

Cumulative Payments: $925,521.68
Total Interest Paid: $550,521.68


Unless I'm doing something completely wrong, it would seem that I'd be making almost 285,000 dollars NET / year with the HPSP (231.25k from loan payment and ~67k from military pretax salary.) I can't see how the civilian side could compare.

 

[prechilill]

There are guys here who have gone months without seeing patients. They then collect about 20,000 per month from uncle Sam. They staff residents 1.5 days a week and sit in their office. When they found out that I saw a full book of patients AND staffed the resident, they almost acosted me. I told them I could and I couldn't stand to see my skills die on the vine. Plus, it is just fun seeing patients and VOLUME is one of the greatest teachers and so my residents benefit from a larger volume coming through the clinic.

The phenomenol A that used to be here at this base left before I got here. He was teaching, seeing patients, doing full mouth pedo rehab to give the C's a great experience. My assistant now used to be his assistant and he was doing expose and bonds, implants, pedo, ortho, the whole nine yards. My poor A's look at clinical practice like the SNCO's look at putting on scrubs and assisting.... won't happen. So, specialists get to do exams, teach residents, generate DWV's, lecture, AND offer training to guys who don't get into the c program. My A's send periodontally involved teeth to me when I've got 15 patients on the books for the day and it is the second and last sick call patient for the morning at it is 9:30 am. They use very little of their training to teach, mentor, and lead by example and show us that those two years really do make a difference in efficiency, scope, and productivity.

The real problem is that so much young energy in the clinic (c residents and other post c residents and non resident dentists) see these guys not doing exams (we've got guys who haven't done exams in years and then expect the commander to make the specialists do the exams!), not helping with sick call, seeing class I alagams for op 6 or 8 and then taking admin time for 2 days. Then teach for 1.5 days and otherwise mire in administration. The young dentists then say, the Air Force isn't for me because that is what I am going to grow into.

In my humble opinion, every single dentist save commanders at large bases should see patients 1.5 to 2 days per week required! I know a commander of my own specialty who commands at an overseas base (not a small one) and still practices 1.5 to 2 days per week! My own commander still steals away a few half days a month and does sedations and surgery. These other imposters are on "professional welfare" and their output shows it. They invent administrative stuff and meetings so that they don't have to don scrubs and actually be what they are most valuable as- a treating practitioner.

The problem is that you can't get rid of the dead weight. I bet we could do twice as much with 1/2 to 2/3 the dentists. Instead the dead weight stays around on the gravy train: hiding in "chief of this or that roles", evading quantifiable work, sucking up bonuses, pawning off work, and feeling good about themselves because they have "been around a while". They check in at 7:30 and leave at 4:30 but what happens in the middle is appauling. I bet if you took all that wasted money and made an incentive based practice focused on clinical output/quality/efficiency, you'd have a much more elite work environment. Now, instead, you have the repository where many go who couldn't make it in private practice or couldn't handle the pressure of private practice. They are the majority of the "leadership/chief of this or that" I've seen and they make a bad stereotype for the few who are real workers.

I am going to start a thread about "37 good things about air force dentistry" so I don't get too focused on the frusterations and problems.

"The difference between a leader and a manager is that leaders do the right things and managers do things right. The Air Force dental corp needs more LEADERS." -General Graham

How about a prosthodontist who blocks the entire afternoon to deliver one crown? Or blocks three hours to deliver an RPD?
Quite and interesting thread- the military is a great way to start, get free education and learn a lot of good dentistry. Staying in- that's another topic.

 

[Tiankum]

Well I'm a brand new dental student and brand new HSCP recipient, so I don't ahve experience on my side. But...I'd say your calculations are technically correct but perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. I say its an exaggeration because most people (to my knowledge) do not go for the full 30 year repayment plan, but rather they prefer to try to get the debt taken care of before then. You also will be paid much more than 67k/year in the military when you consider all factors (base pay + BAS + BAH + special pays (VSP and ASP))....in my rough calculations the pay came to somewhere around 100k in 2012 dollars, but obviously that goes up the more years/promotions you have.

That being said, from what I hear UNANIMOUSLY, do not join just for the money! Sounds great now from our position 4 years away from payback, but when it's time to pay the piper and serve your service obligation, you will have to have some affinity for wanting to serve int he military or you will be miserable.

I wouldn't touch 375k worth of debt without the military though. That's just going to drown anyone who has to fund it fully via loans. Best of luck...

In the past few years I have yet to see anyone from my school graduate and take the 10 year payback. Everyone goes for the 30. Paying back 400k in ten years would break you.

 

[Shazzam]

Well I'm a brand new dental student and brand new HSCP recipient, so I don't ahve experience on my side. But...I'd say your calculations are technically correct but perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. I say its an exaggeration because most people (to my knowledge) do not go for the full 30 year repayment plan, but rather they prefer to try to get the debt taken care of before then. You also will be paid much more than 67k/year in the military when you consider all factors (base pay + BAS + BAH + special pays (VSP and ASP))....in my rough calculations the pay came to somewhere around 100k in 2012 dollars, but obviously that goes up the more years/promotions you have.

That being said, from what I hear UNANIMOUSLY, do not join just for the money! Sounds great now from our position 4 years away from payback, but when it's time to pay the piper and serve your service obligation, you will have to have some affinity for wanting to serve int he military or you will be miserable.

I wouldn't touch 375k worth of debt without the military though. That's just going to drown anyone who has to fund it fully via loans. Best of luck...

Even if you pay off the loan early, my hypothetical uses a salary a full 40k lower than what you suggested. That 40k over 4 years would easily compensate for the interest difference between paying it off 5 years early. 300k net is ridiculous, especially when you would be making 80-90k net in private practice which is more like 60k after loan repayment. Not to mention there are dozens of benefits of being debt free, larger home, better car, bigger practice, etc... Hell, I think military would probably be the fastest way to open up your private practice if you end up taking a 370k loan. I have no idea how you could even pay it down to a reasonable amount in less than 4 years to open a decent practice, let alone buying anything else.

I agree that you should be at least somewhat interested in military but the financial aspect (in my mind) is enough of a motivator even if you don't like the idea of serving.

 

[88845]

Why wouldn't it be worth it if I were to join on financial incentive alone? I plugged in the following into a loan calculator:


Loan Balance: $375,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $375,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 7.30%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 30 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00
Total Years in College: 4 years
Average Debt per Year: $93,750.00

Monthly Loan Payment: $2,570.89
Number of Payments: 361

Cumulative Payments: $925,521.68
Total Interest Paid: $550,521.68


Unless I'm doing something completely wrong, it would seem that I'd be making almost 285,000 dollars NET / year with the HPSP (231.25k from loan payment and ~67k from military pretax salary.) I can't see how the civilian side could compare.

Your analysis is good enough to demonstrate the point regarding massive debt.

A friend of mine recently graduated from one of the private dental schools and the numbers you're using resonate with said friend's financial situation. Borrowed $365K, aggregate loan interest 7.4%, opted for 30 year repayment because the default 10 year plan called for $4K+/mo repayment (no undergrad debt). He was lucky to find an associate position and just started working this month after a June graduation. To say that he regrets not pursuing the HPSP when he had the chance in 2008 and 2009 is a gross understatement.

 

[UCSFx2017]

Bumping for the sake of updating HPSP's return-on-investment in today's dental school market.

My state school increased it's direct cost by $3,000 bringing the annual total for fixed-costs to almost $40,500.

Assuming that the school does not increase tuition the subsequent years (unlikely), I will be taking out the maximum unsubsidized 6.8% + 1% origination fee loans of $40,500 per year.

During the four years of dental school, the accrued interest will amount to $29,160 for the $162,000 ($40,500 x 4), making the grand total by graduation equal to $191,160.

Under the standard 120-month repayment schedule, the total repayment will be $263,985. The total interest will be $72,925. The monthly loan repayment amount is $2,200.

Under a 48-month (4-year) repayment schedule, the total repayment will be $218,873. The total interest will be $27,713. The monthly loan repayment amount is $4,560.

Ideally, I would like to pay this off within 4-years or less. My annual expenses for student loans would be $54,720. I do not know how much the typical newly grad makes but assuming I am lucky or work at a chain and remain single, a $120,000 gross salary would equate to $6,643 in state income tax for Virginia and $23,000 in Federal income tax. Net-income would be $120,000 - $54,720 - $6,643 - $23,000 = $35,637.

Comparatively, a military dentist would be paid >$60,000 per year for four years.

 

[chill45]

Bumping for the sake of updating HPSP's return-on-investment in today's dental school market.

My state school increased it's direct cost by $3,000 bringing the annual total for fixed-costs to almost $40,500.

Assuming that the school does not increase tuition the subsequent years (unlikely), I will be taking out the maximum unsubsidized 6.8% + 1% origination fee loans of $40,500 per year.

During the four years of dental school, the accrued interest will amount to $29,160 for the $162,000 ($40,500 x 4), making the grand total by graduation equal to $191,160.

Under the standard 120-month repayment schedule, the total repayment will be $263,985. The total interest will be $72,925. The monthly loan repayment amount is $2,200.

Under a 48-month (4-year) repayment schedule, the total repayment will be $218,873. The total interest will be $27,713. The monthly loan repayment amount is $4,560.

Ideally, I would like to pay this off within 4-years or less. My annual expenses for student loans would be $54,720. I do not know how much the typical newly grad makes but assuming I am lucky or work at a chain and remain single, a $120,000 gross salary would equate to $6,643 in state income tax for Virginia and $23,000 in Federal income tax. Net-income would be $120,000 - $54,720 - $6,643 - $23,000 = $35,637.

Comparatively, a military dentist would be paid >$60,000 per year for four years.

Do not forget another $20,000 per year while in school for rent, food, gas, car maintenance, etc. along with the 6.8% each year for that portion. The military will give you around $1800-$1900 (after taxes) per month stipend plus the $20k sign on bonus (if Navy or Army), so that is another $140,000+ saved during the four years of school plus the continued interest on that portion during repayment. Since you would again need at least $20k just to live on that extra $15k left would not be enough to cover the loan payment on your proposed 4 year plan. This is why so many people on here will say it is possible to pay off your loans in under 10 years but it isn't easy. You would basically be living like a broke undergrad once again for 7+ years. If you want to have a family go ahead and make that 10+ years.

The military route is not for everybody but it is definitely worth it if someone is up for the task of fulfilling the obligations for it. VCU estimates $295,000 for all tuition and living expenses, tach on the accruing interest during school and making the payoff time 6 years it would still add up to over $400,000 total. Since the military will be saving someone all of this it is basically as if they are paying you $150,000 per year for four years (including the ~$50,000 annual salary while in service). Make the repayment length 15 years and that turns into a nice $175k-$200k a year salary. It just depends how someone wants to think about it and that is how I like to think about it. If I am missing something please let me know because I am considering the scholarship.

 

[UCSFx2017]

VCU estimates $295,000 for all tuition and living expenses, tach on the accruing interest during school and making the payoff time 6 years it would still add up to over $400,000 total. Since the military will be saving someone all of this it is basically as if they are paying you $150,000 per year for four years (including the ~$50,000 annual salary while in service). Make the repayment length 15 years and that turns into a nice $175k-$200k a year salary. It just depends how someone wants to think about it and that is how I like to think about it. If I am missing something please let me know because I am considering the scholarship.

All schools overestimate the cost-of-attendance. What I listed above was only fixed-costs (tuition + fees). Without even considering extraneous expenses and bonuses, HPSP will still fan out financially ahead of a VCU graduate. Some would also argue that your clinical experience is limited within the military if you do not add another year for GPR/AEGD, making the total service obligation 5-years. From what I've read, the military limits certain procedures to only those with GPR/AEGD experience. Private practitioners are also learning the ins-and-outs of running a dental practice while the typical military dentist is exposed to much less business experience. You may also lose a potential patient base by joining the military. If I had not been interested in specialties, I would have applied for the HPSP. You can still apply to specialties after your service obligation but I prefer spending those first years out of dental school completing my residency instead of practicing general, bread-and-butter dentistry.

 

[Mr. Thirsty]

All schools overestimate the cost-of-attendance. What I listed above was only fixed-costs (tuition + fees). Without even considering extraneous expenses and bonuses, HPSP will still fan out financially ahead of a VCU graduate. Some would also argue that your clinical experience is limited within the military if you do not add another year for GPR/AEGD, making the total service obligation 5-years. From what I've read, the military limits certain procedures to only those with GPR/AEGD experience. Private practitioners are also learning the ins-and-outs of running a dental practice while the typical military dentist is exposed to much less business experience. You may also lose a potential patient base by joining the military. If I had not been interested in specialties, I would have applied for the HPSP. You can still apply to specialties after your service obligation but I prefer spending those first years out of dental school completing my residency instead of practicing general, bread-and-butter dentistry.

Just a correction, the GPR/AEGD does not extend your service obligation. I am pretty sure it is considered a neutral year.

 

[Rlow04]

Just a correction, the GPR/AEGD does not extend your service obligation. I am pretty sure it is considered a neutral year.

This used to be the case, aka 1 yr AEGD, 3 yrs normal repayment = 4 yrs total.
Now it's 1yr AEGD, 4 yrs payback = 5 yrs total.

They call the AEGD a neutral year because while you incur one more year, you're also paying back one year.

 

[Mr. Thirsty]

This used to be the case, aka 1 yr AEGD, 3 yrs normal repayment = 4 yrs total.
Now it's 1yr AEGD, 4 yrs payback = 5 yrs total.

They call the AEGD a neutral year because while you incur one more year, you're also paying back one year.

Yeah that's the impression I was under. So the AEGD therefore doesn't really increase your pay back time, just stalls the one that you already owe.

 

[armyoms]

I'm an active-duty U.S. Army oral/maxillofacial surgeon and am currently deciding if I should stay in the military or get out (I'm eligible to get out next year, and will have 14 yrs of service, 6 yrs short of acquiring eligibility for retirement benefits). First off, I was in private practice for 3 years after dental school and entered the military because I wanted to specialize. My student loan debt, combined with the fact that I had 2 young children to support and provide insurance for, made going through a civilian 4yr residency financially untenable. The military pay for a new captain is not exhorbitant, but given the healthcare benefits for a young family, as well as the significant tax advantages, the military is by far and way (economically) superior to a civilian residency, most of which provide only a meager stipend and no health insurance. Secondly, as an oral surgeon, we do a ton or orthognathic surgery, trauma surgery, etc., which is not the case in most civilian programs (there are some exceptions). I would guess that I have significantly more autonomy than my civilian counterparts, as I can perform whatever treatment is necessary, un-hindered by the patient's insurance or financial restrictions. I don't have to worry about overhead, hiring, or firing. There is no territorial "pissing" by hypercompetitive colleagues, everyone shares information and assistance freely, unencumbered by self-serving financial interests. I'm exceedingly confident that most dental students and new military dentists significantly over-estimate the income that a "civilian" dentist makes, especially in the first few years. Having finished my residency 6 years ago and having a rank of O-5, my current compensation is approximately $185,000/yr. Now a civilian oral surgeon may make more than this, but they have to pay for their own family health insurance, continuing education, and retirement. Shopping at the on-post military commissary (you do buy groceries, don't you?) is 30% cheaper than shopping at civilian grocery stores. If I choose to stay in, my bonuses will increase by $80,000/yr, which will put me at around $270,000/yr. I am also allowed to "moonlight" at a civilian practice using some of my leave days, which easily bring in another $50,000/yr. And retiring as an O-6 will mean $60,000/yr for the rest of my life, with continued benefits (to get this much "free" money with an assumed 7% return on your investment would mean that you would have to have $860,000 in those investments. Last week I met with a non-military certified financial planner to crunch data to help me decide whether to stay or go. She said that , with benefits and retirement pay, my military retirement would be worth slightly more than $2,000,000. If I get injured and can't practice, I still get the same retirement pay. If the stock market plummets, I get the same retirement pay. The downsides? You can't control where you live or for how long, you may get deployed for 6 months, you have an overabundance of nonsense admin/safety/computer training, you can't control your own clinic hours, you can't hire who you want, you can't fire who you want, and you have to pass a physical fitness test every 6 months. And - if you're a new general dentist right out of school - you likely will not have much control over procedures you are able to perform (they call it "being stuck on the amalgam line"). Also (and this is the real kick in the pants to me), to get retirement benefits, you have to stay in the full 20 years. So if you get out at 19 years and 11 months, you get nothing. If you're debating coming into the military as a dentist, I would weigh the lifestyle more than anything else. Because financially, the difference is not as much as you think and - in many cases - the military dentist will make more money, depending on specialty, location, etc. Also take into account whether you are doing it short term, or for the full 20 years.

 

[drlongisland]

I was a private practice dentist for 21 years. Now I'm in the Navy, active duty. I was enlisted Air Force previously. So I kind of know both sides. Both sides have their pros and cons. Lets see what a few years in the Navy compares to private practice. I'll let you guys know in a few years. Private practice got to be very challenging especially in WA state, look up WDS and what they dud to us in June 2011. I like dentistry, not running a business. If you like both then go private. AND someone has to take care of our military service men and women. I'm proud to be a Navy dentist.

 

[Hedgy]

I'm an active-duty U.S. Army oral/maxillofacial surgeon and am currently deciding if I should stay in the military or get out (I'm eligible to get out next year, and will have 14 yrs of service, 6 yrs short of acquiring eligibility for retirement benefits). First off, I was in private practice for 3 years after dental school and entered the military because I wanted to specialize. My student loan debt, combined with the fact that I had 2 young children to support and provide insurance for, made going through a civilian 4yr residency financially untenable. The military pay for a new captain is not exhorbitant, but given the healthcare benefits for a young family, as well as the significant tax advantages, the military is by far and way (economically) superior to a civilian residency, most of which provide only a meager stipend and no health insurance. Secondly, as an oral surgeon, we do a ton or orthognathic surgery, trauma surgery, etc., which is not the case in most civilian programs (there are some exceptions). I would guess that I have significantly more autonomy than my civilian counterparts, as I can perform whatever treatment is necessary, un-hindered by the patient's insurance or financial restrictions. I don't have to worry about overhead, hiring, or firing. There is no territorial "pissing" by hypercompetitive colleagues, everyone shares information and assistance freely, unencumbered by self-serving financial interests. I'm exceedingly confident that most dental students and new military dentists significantly over-estimate the income that a "civilian" dentist makes, especially in the first few years. Having finished my residency 6 years ago and having a rank of O-5, my current compensation is approximately $185,000/yr. Now a civilian oral surgeon may make more than this, but they have to pay for their own family health insurance, continuing education, and retirement. Shopping at the on-post military commissary (you do buy groceries, don't you?) is 30% cheaper than shopping at civilian grocery stores. If I choose to stay in, my bonuses will increase by $80,000/yr, which will put me at around $270,000/yr. I am also allowed to "moonlight" at a civilian practice using some of my leave days, which easily bring in another $50,000/yr. And retiring as an O-6 will mean $60,000/yr for the rest of my life, with continued benefits (to get this much "free" money with an assumed 7% return on your investment would mean that you would have to have $860,000 in those investments. Last week I met with a non-military certified financial planner to crunch data to help me decide whether to stay or go. She said that , with benefits and retirement pay, my military retirement would be worth slightly more than $2,000,000. If I get injured and can't practice, I still get the same retirement pay. If the stock market plummets, I get the same retirement pay. The downsides? You can't control where you live or for how long, you may get deployed for 6 months, you have an overabundance of nonsense admin/safety/computer training, you can't control your own clinic hours, you can't hire who you want, you can't fire who you want, and you have to pass a physical fitness test every 6 months. And - if you're a new general dentist right out of school - you likely will not have much control over procedures you are able to perform (they call it "being stuck on the amalgam line"). Also (and this is the real kick in the pants to me), to get retirement benefits, you have to stay in the full 20 years. So if you get out at 19 years and 11 months, you get nothing. If you're debating coming into the military as a dentist, I would weigh the lifestyle more than anything else. Because financially, the difference is not as much as you think and - in many cases - the military dentist will make more money, depending on specialty, location, etc. Also take into account whether you are doing it short term, or for the full 20 years.

I'm going to chime in on this one because you are comparing a surgeon's income vs general dentist so we need to compare apples to apples here. The surgeon's in my city make about $500-600k gross. Health insurance, CE, and retirement are expensed, so that doesn't affect gross. Most at this income are using defined benefit plans where they can pack away $80k into retirement and that may decrease the gross by another $50k or so. I won't run numbers, but you can do the math regarding amount at retirement. At Great Lakes, the Oral Surgeon moonlighted 16 hrs/wk and made more than he did in the service.

As a general dentist, I gross about $330k on a 4-day week. I put about $47k/yr into retirement, and am starting to dabble in real estate. My net will be about $210k. It depends on your tax and state, etc.

I don't believe you ever will see military pay equaling what you can make as a civilian practitioner. You will have a good living and make a good income, but you have to look at the bigger picture than money if you want to join. Just my 2 cents.