3rd and 4th year med school -- DO vs MD - controversy? prestige? the nonsense?

[kmnfive]

since there has been such a debate about this issue over at the "pre-medical" section of the forum, I wanted to get a chance to ask this question to the students who have completed their first 2 years of med school -- either DO or MD.

So without further ado; for the people who are in their 3rd or 4th year, I wanted to ask you some questions.

1. If you are going to a DO or MD school, what do you like/dislike about them? Why did you choose to be either or? Do you have any regrets about your decision?

2. Did you choose DO because you didn?t get into an MD school? And vice versa.

3. For the DO's, as a training soon-to-be physician, do you know people who have graduated and seeking residencies but can't find good ones due to their type of training?





I?ve been hearing allot of different things. And I?ve asked several doctors at my hospital. The MD's didn?t really flame their DO counterparts -- in contrast to so many people on this forum who seem to insult the DO practice. However they did feel that DO wasn?t a traditional way to practice medicine. the DO's that I talked to in the other hand, seemed really defensive and careful in terms of what kind of information they gave me about the profession--perhaps this a result of being asked "what the hell is a DO?" over and over again throughout the course of their careers.

I mean I?ve read about it allot, I?ve talked to allot of different people; physicians, nurses, and PA's. And it seems so strange how so many people think differently about this and to be honest it is rather perplexing.

This remind me allot of those trade school students who defend their degree's. Regardless whether or not it?s recognized by the senior college accreditation boards. Not to say that DO's are illegitimate. But really, are DO?s like acupuncturists? Or chiropractors? I mean it sounds really archaic to me -- the definition of a DO which states:

"A system of medicine based on the theory that disturbances in the musculoskeletal system affect other bodily parts, causing many disorders that can be corrected by various manipulative techniques in conjunction with conventional medical, surgical, pharmacological, and other therapeutic procedures."
.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[goooooober]

the definition of osteopathic medicine is:

"snap, crackle, pop"

The osteopathic branch of medicine evolved from the allopathic, making it more modern. As far as what it is, "a practicing physician". Unless you got down syndrome, you can research it and make up your own mind. Don't bring pathetic pre-med flame wars into professional forums. Peace.

 

[normalforce]

Once you understand the integration between anatomy and physiology and how the two "principles" work together, then you will gain an appreciation for the premise behind osteopathic medicine. Moreover, according to a study released in the JAOA (July 2003), DO's tend to be better listeners and communicators than MD's. Not starting a fire, just spitting out the documented research results. As a DO you can do more, you have another tool in your bag (hands on manipulation, that, trust me, many patients truly appreciate and benefit from), you are trained to understand everything and to be a better listener. Those are the facts. You sort the rest out.

Normalforce

 

[shag]

hmm...

What do you get when you cross a nurse practitioner and a chiropractor?

On a serious note, the DO/MD arguement has been covered many times, and usually ends up on the level of the joke that I just made up.

It is true that admission scores to DO schools do tend to be lower than MD schools. I'm sure that many DO students probably applied to MD programs and were rejected. I was planning on going DO myself if the MD thing didn't work out.

As a 4th year, I've had the opportunity to work with DO's on several occasions. I saw absolutely NO difference between the way attendings of different persuasions practiced clinical medicine. Also, I've never seen any of the hokey pokey manipulations being performed, though if they make the patient happy, then more power to them.

If you wonder why you got a response like go6ber's, the reason is this: If anyone actually responds to this thread after my spectacular post, especially with the mean joke above , it will likely digress into a flame war and get purty nasty.

Peace, Love, and DO's have feelings too

 

[kmnfive]

i apologize, please accept.

in no way did i intend or throw meaning towards the opinions that DO's are inferior. i must have written my question completely wrong.

im sorry =(

 

[Doc_Thks_JC]

Since I have been on Studentdoctor I have read so many DO vs. MD posts that it makes me sick. Look, I am a DO student. DOs learn every facet of modern medicine that MDs do. We learn the same thing. OKAY, do you get it!!! We learn the same thing!!! Only difference is we are taught emphasis of the integration of all facets of a human being: anatomy, physiology, psych, etc.... We are also taught how to dx and tx musculoskeletal disorders using hands on techniques. We DO NOT refuse treatment to a patient with conventional medicine if we know it is first line treatment, or second line, or third. Remember, We are taught the Same Thing!!! We do what the MDs would do, that is however what we are taught!!!! Remember, the same thing!!!! My 3rd and 4th year rotations are with Mostly (almost all) MDs. Oh, no!!! How can an MD teach a DO? Remember, We are taught the same thing!!!!! Not only that, but we do the same residencies as MDs. Oh my god, How can DOs do MD residencies? Remember, We are taught the same thing!!!! Not only that , but we take, pass, and sometimes do much better than allopaths on the USMLE!!! Oh my god, How can DOs take the USMLE? Remember, We are taught the same thing!!!! I know this post seems a little arrogant, but the next time you want to argue over DOs vs. MDs, Remember. Patients want and need caring, compassionate, empathetic doctors that care for their best interests and will use every tool to make them better--> They could care less if you are a DO, or MD.

 

[Jim Picotte]

We're pretty much the same except for the manipulative training that a DO gets while in medical school. The reality after that is that a minority of DO graduates use manipulative medicine at all. I think it's great if you're in primary care...always good to offer more choices to your patients. It may be a touch more difficult to get some of the more traditional ACGME residencies coming from a DO school but there are DO students in every specialty possible so it's not too big a hindrance. You can even take OMM courses as an MD if you really love the idea. I work with DO physicians nearly daily and they're great and wonderfully competent. Check some schools out and just go where you feel most comfortable.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by kmnfive

I?ve been hearing allot of different things. And I?ve asked several doctors at my hospital. The MD's didn?t really flame their DO counterparts -- in contrast to so many people on this forum who seem to insult the DO practice. However they did feel that DO wasn?t a traditional way to practice medicine. the DO's that I talked to in the other hand, seemed really defensive and careful in terms of what kind of information they gave me about the profession--perhaps this a result of being asked "what the hell is a DO?" over and over again throughout the course of their careers.
.

There are many states, PA included, in which DOs are well recognized and highly respected. I've had patients state that they prefer our local osteopathic hospital (not sure if it had anything to do with the DOs there but rather that its a smaller, nicer place than mine). Thus, in some states it is true that the general public doesn't know the difference and might confuse the DO degree with DC, etc. However, there are plenty of places where this is not true.

I find your statement above generally true - frankly, I don't know where most of my fellow residents went to school or whether they're a DO or not. And I'm sure its the same - I only notice it one someone's name badge from time to time or when teasing a couple of the anesth residents that the patient needs some more OMM to relax. It seems to be more of an issue at the pre-med and med student level rather than a resident or faculty - if someone does a good job and takes good care of patients I could not care less if they got their degree from a Cracker Jack box (sort of).

 

[shag]

Originally posted by Doc_Thks_JC
Since I have been on Studentdoctor I have read so many DO vs. MD posts that it makes me sick. Look, I am a DO student. DOs learn every facet of modern medicine that MDs do. We learn the same thing. OKAY, do you get it!!! We learn the same thing!!! Only difference is we are taught emphasis of the integration of all facets of a human being: anatomy, physiology, psych, etc.... We are also taught how to dx and tx musculoskeletal disorders using hands on techniques. We DO NOT refuse treatment to a patient with conventional medicine if we know it is first line treatment, or second line, or third. Remember, We are taught the Same Thing!!! We do what the MDs would do, that is however what we are taught!!!! Remember, the same thing!!!! My 3rd and 4th year rotations are with Mostly (almost all) MDs. Oh, no!!! How can an MD teach a DO? Remember, We are taught the same thing!!!!! Not only that, but we do the same residencies as MDs. Oh my god, How can DOs do MD residencies? Remember, We are taught the same thing!!!! Not only that , but we take, pass, and sometimes do much better than allopaths on the USMLE!!! Oh my god, How can DOs take the USMLE? Remember, We are taught the same thing!!!! I know this post seems a little arrogant, but the next time you want to argue over DOs vs. MDs, Remember. Patients want and need caring, compassionate, empathetic doctors that care for their best interests and will use every tool to make them better--> They could care less if you are a DO, or MD.

"Why the heck are you coming in here to fix my cold? I thought you was an eye doctor"

In my homestate, which has no DO school, many people truly don't know anything about DO's. For example, I had never heard of the discipline until I was applying for medical school. In addition, my mom's primary care physician whom she has been seeing for years is a DO. I pointed this out to her, and while very happy with her doc, she was concerned that might not be seeing a "real doctor" so I explained what the DO degree is and assured her that she was seeing a real doc.

The bottom line is that Doc_Thks_JC is right on. Unfortunately, there is alot of professional jealousy on both sides. My school has a few DO attendings and several DO residents. They represent well the quality of their training.

Over the past several years, the DO degree has been gaining respect. Each year, increasing numbers of DO students match in MD and specialty residencies. Hopefully, physicians having nametags that say "Dr. Jill Smith" instead of "Jill Smith, DO" will become a thing of the past.