3rd Year: Break rooms and Shower?

[GalenAgas]

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During 3rd year will I ever be spending the night in a break room (what I imagine resembles a dorm) or will I be continually walking around and doing things.

Should I buy toiletry bag?

 

[Law2Doc]

During 3rd year will I ever be spending the night in a break room (what I imagine resembles a dorm) or will I be continually walking around and doing things.

Should I buy toiletry bag?

Yes there will likely be a night or two where nothing is happening where the resident will say you can go hit the call room. But I note that very few residents are going to bother paging the med student if something cool comes in, so if it's a field you are interested in, you might want to err on the side of being around to see everything. On rotations I actually was interested in I usually stayed up all night if the residents did.

 

[NightSwim]

This is really dependent on your hospital. Regardless even if you do have 24 hr shifts and are lucky enough to be able to sleep, you sure won't be showering! Why bother and besides there won't be showers for you.

 

[Law2Doc]

This is really dependent on your hospital. Regardless even if you do have 24 hr shifts and are lucky enough to be able to sleep, you sure won't be showering! Why bother and besides there won't be showers for you.

The call room areas at most hospitals I have been at always had communal bath rooms with a shower. But I'd have to have gotten pretty gross to actually use the shower. You just brush your teeth throw on some deodorant and you are fine. You are going home to bed after, and can shower when you wake up.

 

[link2swim06]

The call room areas at most hospitals I have been at always had communal bath rooms with a shower. But I'd have to have gotten pretty gross to actually use the shower. You just brush your teeth throw on some deodorant and you are fine. You are going home to bed after, and can shower when you wake up.

Our call rooms have a separate shower/bathroom just for the two med student call rooms.

 

[Law2Doc]

Our call rooms have a separate shower/bathroom just for the two med student call rooms.

Fancy.

 

[yuiness]

You can usually find a shower if showering is important to you. For me, showering was optional, but if I didn't brush my teeth, I would feel completely disgusting. Some people brought fresh underwear to change in to. Even if you're up all night, you will usually have time to take a quick shower or brush your teeth and put on some deodorant. Whatever gets you through with the minimal amount of discomfort.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Yes there will likely be a night or two where nothing is happening where the resident will say you can go hit the call room. But I note that very few residents are going to bother paging the med student if something cool comes in, so if it's a field you are interested in, you might want to err on the side of being around to see everything. On rotations I actually was interested in I usually stayed up all night if the residents did.

Wow, this is the worst and most gunnerish advice I've ever seen from you.

 

[Dr McSexy]

Wow, this is the worst and most gunnerish advice I've ever seen from you.

What? how's that gunnerish?

What he says is pretty much true... if you want to see stuff while on call, your best bet is to hang around the residents all night and not sleep. Some residents are better than others about paging you, but mostly, they are too concerned about putting everything in motion rather than paging the med student.

I don't really see how the advice of staying up all night for a field you are interested in is gunnerish.... it's not like it'll really help your eval. It's just for experiences purposes.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Wow, this is the worst and most gunnerish advice I've ever seen from you.

Yes, but it's true. If you go to take a nap while on an overnight surgery shift on the trauma service, the resident is NOT going to be paging you when the emergency trauma comes rolling in and goes straight to the OR. If you get annoyed at him/her not paging you after the fact, he/she will rip you a new one.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Yes, but it's true. If you go to take a nap while on an overnight surgery shift on the trauma service, the resident is NOT going to be paging you when the emergency trauma comes rolling in and goes straight to the OR. If you get annoyed at him/her not paging you after the fact, he/she will rip you a new one.

When I was on the trauma service , I had a pager which got the same trauma code pages as everyone else. No one had to go out of their way to page me.

 

[yuiness]

When I was on the trauma service , I had a pager which got the same trauma code pages as everyone else. No one had to go out of their way to page me.

This is true at my school as well. There is a med student trauma pager that you can sign out (using your keys as collateral) when you're on call. Carrying it is optional, but it's great for knowing what's happening if a big trauma comes in.

 

[GalenAgas]

Question Answered!

Thank you SDN

Awesome 👍

 

[Guillemot]

Ive heard that a lot of times the female medical students poop in the showers and then squish it into the corner with their foot.

 

[evilbooyaa]

When I was on the trauma service , I had a pager which got the same trauma code pages as everyone else. No one had to go out of their way to page me.

Sounds like a pretty good system. I'll have to ask for that when I go onto surgery (if I care enough to be involved in the overnight call stuff)

 

[plsfoldthx]

Ive heard that a lot of times the female medical students poop in the showers and then squish it into the corner with their foot.

wtf........................

 

[KnuxNole]

During 3rd year will I ever be spending the night in a break room (what I imagine resembles a dorm) or will I be continually walking around and doing things.

Should I buy toiletry bag?

Depends on the residents and how lax/strict they are. For surgery, I would get paged for consults, but chill in the break room, so couldn't sleep except for lying down. For Peds I slept 6-7hrs every night, in a small but cozy bed. However, I would advise walking into the first call of every rotation assuming you'll be up all night.

I would imagine Surgery/OB would be ones where sleeping during call would be hard to do.
But even on Surgery, there were nights where I slept for 7 hours in the hospital

 

[WashMe]

lol whenever I was on overnight call, I'd just ask the resident to page me if a "great educational opportunity came up" then I'd go to the call rooms and go straight to sleep. I was only paged one time... and it was a resident just checking in on me at 7am the next morning to tell me it was ok to leave 👍

 

[KnuxNole]

lol whenever I was on overnight call, I'd just ask the resident to page me if a "great educational opportunity came up" then I'd go to the call rooms and go straight to sleep. I was only paged one time... and it was a resident just checking in on me at 7am the next morning to tell me it was ok to leave 👍

Good stuff 😀

 

[evilbooyaa]

lol whenever I was on overnight call, I'd just ask the resident to page me if a "great educational opportunity came up" then I'd go to the call rooms and go straight to sleep. I was only paged one time... and it was a resident just checking in on me at 7am the next morning to tell me it was ok to leave 👍

Sounds like how I plan my calls to be as someone who is not planning to go into surgery 👍

 

[GalenAgas]

lol whenever I was on overnight call, I'd just ask the resident to page me if a "great educational opportunity came up" then I'd go to the call rooms and go straight to sleep. I was only paged one time... and it was a resident just checking in on me at 7am the next morning to tell me it was ok to leave 👍

You passed that rotation?

 

[KnuxNole]

You passed that rotation?

I don't see why he wouldn't. 😛

Failing rotations(not including any shelf exams) require you to do stuff that sabotage your career or something SO dumb. So, as long as you aren't taking a hit in the call room, you're good. Staying in the call room to "wait" for them to page you isn't like that.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Ive heard that a lot of times the female medical students poop in the showers and then squish it into the corner with their foot.

The cereal came right out of my nose when I read this. LMFAO

 

[45408]

Wow, this is the worst and most gunnerish advice I've ever seen from you.

It's actually neither.

When I was on the trauma service , I had a pager which got the same trauma code pages as everyone else. No one had to go out of their way to page me.

So did I.

But when I was on OB, they would page me for new admissions, nothing else. If my patient was progressing to delivery, nobody was going to call me unless the nurse remembered (maybe). When I was on general surgery, I only got called if the attending felt like calling in a third year med student.

Now that I'm a resident, I've gotten a few students who have given me their info and gone home (the rotating students get put up in apartments nearby). I've only ever called one once. I remember what it's like to be a student and don't feel like paging them in for some boring consult at 3am, but if you want to actually see what it's like, Law2Doc is right that you should stick around.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

It's actually neither.

It's both. It's bad advice because if there's one cardinal rule in medicine, it's sleep when you can. And the statement I was commenting on came from a poster who is relentlessly negative about how exhausting and difficult medical school is, so I find it amusing that he's advising people to not sleep if they have a chance to when on call.

It's gunnerish, or can be, because it's going way beyond what's expected of you and making other students look bad by comparison.

 

[45408]

It's both. It's bad advice because if there's one cardinal rule in medicine, it's sleep when you can. And the statement I was commenting on came from a poster who is relentlessly negative about how exhausting and difficult medical school is, so I find it amusing that he's advising people to not sleep if they have a chance to when on call.

It's gunnerish, or can be, because it's going way beyond what's expected of you and making other students look bad by comparison.

I'm still not having it. It is definitely not "way beyond what is expected of you." It might even simply be expected of you. He said:

]if it's a field you are interested in, you might want to err on the side of being around to see everything.

If you're interested in that field, and this is your one-month chance to see if you want to do it for the rest of your life, yes, you should err on the side of being around to see everything. That's not bad advice or gunnerish.

 

[WashMe]

You passed that rotation?

honors in the clinical portion 👍

 

[evilbooyaa]

I'm still not having it. It is definitely not "way beyond what is expected of you." It might even simply be expected of you. He said:


If you're interested in that field, and this is your one-month chance to see if you want to do it for the rest of your life, yes, you should err on the side of being around to see everything. That's not bad advice or gunnerish.

👍👍👍👍

 

[KeyzerSoze]

👍👍👍👍

Clearly I can't argue with that many thumbs, so I guess you're right.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Clearly I can't argue with that many thumbs, so I guess you're right.

Let's run some hypotheticals.

Let's say you're interested in Surgery (even if you're not, replace it with whatever you plan to go into)

If you were interested in Surgery, if you were allowed to sleep during call (while the resident/attending were still doing work), would you? Would you not consider working hard over the top (compared to other students) for that specialty so you could guarantee honors clinically, possibly a good LoR for surgery residency, etc. etc.?

Some people wouldn't. I think most people I know that know what they want to do (especially those interested in Surgery) turn into extremely hard workers when they are in that rotation. Why do you think people always say to bust your butt during away rotations in your specialty field?

 

[dr zaius]

I never understood why people are so keyed up to go to sleep on a 24 hour shift. You get the next day off and lots of crazy stuff tends to happen overnight. It's not like you're staying up all night every third night or anything. Sack up and stay awake. At the very least it makes you seem interested.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm still not having it. It is definitely not "way beyond what is expected of you." It might even simply be expected of you. He said:


If you're interested in that field, and this is your one-month chance to see if you want to do it for the rest of your life, yes, you should err on the side of being around to see everything. That's not bad advice or gunnerish.

This. The point of rotating through different specialties is in large part to actually see what those specialties involve. That means spending a month seeing as much as you can of the cool cases that come through, and getting the chance to do hands on stuff. It's not to "sleep when you can". That's a good rule for intern year when you are there 80 hours a week for 12 long months, but doesn't apply to a single rotation which will be followed by a half dozen shorter rotations when you can sleep plenty. The gunner in KeyzerSoze above seems to forget this. He's focused on the grade and how people might look in comparison. That is not the point here. I think my advice is true whether you are the only one on the rotation or just one in ten. In most cases, if you go to sleep nobody is going to take the time to hunt you down. They didnt when I was a med student and I rarely did when I was an intern. Rotations are for you the med student, not me the resident. I already picked my field. Your goal should be to see everything in any field you think you might actually be considering. Thats not gunnerish, thats how you make an informed decision, The sleep when you can motto doesn't really apply to you the third year med student, that's an intern thing. The coolest things I did during my surgery and other procedural rotations all happened in the wee hours of the night. I could have easily slept through them, and that might have changed my perception of certain fields dramatically.

 

[Law2Doc]

I never understood why people are so keyed up to go to sleep on a 24 hour shift. You get the next day off and lots of crazy stuff tends to happen overnight. It's not like you're staying up all night every third night or anything. Sack up and stay awake. At the very least it makes you seem interested.

I agree with you from the med student perspective -- missing a few nights sleep during a week, followed by post call days isn't really a big deal. If you are in residency and this is your life for 3-5 years though, then it does start to take it's toll -- you never sleep as well in the daytime and can be eternally tired. It's less an issue with the duty hour changes, but I still don't begrudge the "sleep when you can" mantra for INTERNS and beyond. But as a third year med student, with rotations like FM, psych, peds, neuro, and outpatient medicine on your schedule, and every major holiday off, this mantra simply isn't for you. Instead your mantra is 'try to see everything cool, because I might not get another chance". You are basically a tourist on safari in most of these specialties -- you won't ever be back to most, so you should be there with your mental camera snapping away, trying to see all the zebras, not holed up in your hotel room missing it all.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

If you were interested in Surgery, if you were allowed to sleep during call (while the resident/attending were still doing work), would you?

That wasn't the point under discussion. The question was whether you should stay up waiting to see something interesting when you have nothing else to do.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

The gunner in KeyzerSoze above seems to forget this. He's focused on the grade and how people might look in comparison.

Hah, way to twist what I said. On the contrary, I'm focused (in this instance) on being a team player with the other medical students and not making them look bad.

 

[peteB]

If you were interested in Surgery, if you were allowed to sleep during call (while the resident/attending were still doing work), would you? Would you not consider working hard over the top (compared to other students) for that specialty so you could guarantee honors clinically, possibly a good LoR for surgery residency, etc. etc.?

If I wanted to go into surgery there's no way in hell I'm going to sleep. I know I'll get called a gunner, but if you want something, you gotta do whatever it takes to get there. I don't care if I make other people look bad, if they care about not looking bad they should stay up and work too. Their problem, not mine.

 

[evilbooyaa]

That wasn't the point under discussion. The question was whether you should stay up waiting to see something interesting when you have nothing else to do.

What? The point I'm making is that you have NOTHING to do, and the resident and attending are still awake.

Also, agree with peteB about not caring that other students think I am working harder than normal because this is a field I want to possibly go into. The definition of gunner = works hard is incorrect and detrimental to the future of medicine.

 

[Law2Doc]

Hah, way to twist what I said. On the contrary, I'm focused (in this instance) on being a team player with the other medical students and not making them look bad.

That's well and nice but you shouldn't be doing that at the expense of actually delving into a field and deciding if you like it. Your focus on "gunnerism" is out of place. Your focus should be on seeing what you can in the short window. If others want to sleep that's their business. It's actually an attitude which is the opposite of being a gunner because you aren't focused on what anyone else is doing. You aren't trying to make you look good or them look bad. You are trying to see as much cool stuff as you can. They can too if they want. If your attitude is that you need to short-change yourself and "sleep when you can" just because someone else might feel that by not sleeping and seeing some cool stuff you are "showing them up" you won't get your money's worth out of your rotations. So no, this isn't close to being a gunner or not being a team player. But your focus on not getting the most out of your rotations because others choose to sleep is foolish. I don't think I twisted what you said. I think you are twisting the definition of not being a "gunner" to justify sleeping on rotation. Sorry but that's an opportunity lost no matter how you spin it.

 

[Law2Doc]

...The definition of gunner = works hard is incorrect and detrimental to the future of medicine.

exactly. The definition of "gunner" is someone who compromises other people to get ahead, not someone who works hard to get ahead. You are SUPPOSED to work hard in med school. You aren't supposed to take actions to screw over other people. Only the latter is being a gunner. So no, staying up with the intern because you want to be helpful and see/do whatever cool stuff happens at 3 am is called being a good and genuinely interested med student. Volunteering other people to do unsavory tasks so you can do the cool stuff, would be gunnerism. Telling other classmates you will call them if something cool comes in and then not calling them so you can have an opportunity for yourself would be being a gunner. But yeah there's some warped definitions of gunner out there if staying up and getting value out of a call night simply because you are interested in the specialty makes you a gunner.

 

[peteB]

We live in a society now where being successful or even trying to gets you looked down upon- called a gunner, etc. Its sad. Its only OK to be mediocre anymore. To be successful just gets you lots of hate.

 

[Law2Doc]

We live in a society now where being successful or even trying to gets you looked down upon- called a gunner, etc. Its sad. Its only OK to be mediocre anymore. To be successful just gets you lots of hate.

I actually don't think med school is such a society. I think there are a few people in this thread with that skewed mindset, but by and large the person who is contemplating X specialty hopefully isn't going to be stupid enough to choose a few hours of sleep during his one X rotation over valuable opportunities, merely out of fear that classmates who prefer sleep will feel he's ruining it for them. In that scenario it's not the guy who does what he needs to to evaluate a specialty who deserves to get a label, sorry.

 

[peteB]

I actually don't think med school is such a society. I think there are a few people in this thread with that skewed mindset, but by and large the person who is contemplating X specialty hopefully isn't going to be stupid enough to choose a few hours of sleep during his one X rotation over valuable opportunities, merely out of fear that classmates who prefer sleep will feel he's ruining it for them. In that scenario it's not the guy who does what he needs to to evaluate a specialty who deserves to get a label, sorry.

It's less true in med school, but it's very true in the rest of society.

But it does happen in my med school a lot. There are plenty of people who label you and hate on you if you actually try to excel and do your best... Apparently they believe if everyone can't be winners, no one should be. The kind of mentality that gets everyone a trophy regardless of how badly they played.

 

[dr zaius]

exactly. The definition of "gunner" is someone who compromises other people to get ahead, not someone who works hard to get ahead. You are SUPPOSED to work hard in med school. You aren't supposed to take actions to screw over other people. Only the latter is being a gunner. So no, staying up with the intern because you want to be helpful and see/do whatever cool stuff happens at 3 am is called being a good and genuinely interested med student. Volunteering other people to do unsavory tasks so you can do the cool stuff, would be gunnerism. Telling other classmates you will call them if something cool comes in and then not calling them so you can have an opportunity for yourself would be being a gunner. But yeah there's some warped definitions of gunner out there if staying up and getting value out of a call night simply because you are interested in the specialty makes you a gunner.

Spot on.

I think sometimes we forget the special situation we are in during third year. We get to see and do so many interesting things without the responsibility that will be tacked on in a few short years. If you're not interested in ob, surgery, or whatever this may be the last time you get to see real live internal anatomy or shove your fist into a uterus to help stop bleeding. I know this sounds high and mighty, but I think if you're going to label someone a gunner for wanting to stay awake and experience that then perhaps your priorities are not in order. I personally feel that this is an extraordinarily unique experience that we should really be excited about rather than trying to find ways/excuses to sleep.

The "you" in my post isn't pointed at anyone in particular.

 

[KnuxNole]

I actually don't think med school is such a society. I think there are a few people in this thread with that skewed mindset, but by and large the person who is contemplating X specialty hopefully isn't going to be stupid enough to choose a few hours of sleep during his one X rotation over valuable opportunities, merely out of fear that classmates who prefer sleep will feel he's ruining it for them. In that scenario it's not the guy who does what he needs to to evaluate a specialty who deserves to get a label, sorry.

That is true. When someone wants to pursue a certain specialty, I would imagine they would want to jump in and immerse themselves in the rotation, in addition to doing additional rotations in whatever specialty Most people know they don't wanna do X specialty, so being on call, and sleeping when there is nothing to do is fine. If they wanna do surgery, OB, whatever, that's a different story. The people asking if it's ok aren't the ones who are gung-ho about that particular specialty.


As far as sleeping on call, I see no problem if the resident says it's ok and/or they say to go read and if they need you, they'll page you. The attending is almost always 😴, and if the awake residents needs the student, they will say so.

And as far as the gunner debate, I don't view someone being awake and wanting to do things during call as gunning. I see it more as an eager student. I personally just don't think someone should get torched for sleeping 6-7 hours during their call night provided there is nothing to do.

 

[Law2Doc]

That is true. When someone wants to pursue a certain specialty, I would imagine they would want to jump in and immerse themselves in the rotation, in addition to doing additional rotations in whatever specialty Most people know they don't wanna do X specialty, so being on call, and sleeping when there is nothing to do is fine. If they wanna do surgery, OB, whatever, that's a different story. The people asking if it's ok aren't the ones who are gung-ho about that particular specialty.


As far as sleeping on call, I see no problem if the resident says it's ok and/or they say to go read and if they need you, they'll page you. The attending is almost always 😴, and if the awake residents needs the student, they will say so.

And as far as the gunner debate, I don't view someone being awake and wanting to do things during call as gunning. I see it more as an eager student. I personally just don't think someone should get torched for sleeping 6-7 hours during their call night provided there is nothing to do.

My caveat is that most people (a) don't know for sure what field they are interested in, or (b) won't get an opportunity to rotate through most of these specialties again. So you are missing out if you go to sleep and miss cool stuff. It's very much like going on a once in a Lifetime vacation and just sleeping in at the hotel. I've done a ton of cool stuff at 3 am that the resident would have never called me about if I wasn't in sight. So do what you gotta do, but don't try to justify it as anything but a missed opportunity. You won't get "torched" grade-wise, but you absolutely should be kicking yourself about it when you miss that once in a lifetime experience. And there is one in every rotation. "Nothing to do" is a transient situation that rarely lasts the "6-7 hours" you are describing -- you will see in residency. I think you guys need to appreciate that med school isn't just something you have to endure to get to a job, it's a set of experiences nobody else on the planet will ever have the opportunity to experience.