4.0 - Impossible?

[luckyzero]

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I have not started college yet, but am VERY interested in going to medical school. From everything I have read, most Med Schools want you to have between 3.6-4.0 GPA.

I know it can be done, I know a lot of students do it, BUT HOW?

It just seems so impossible to me lol.

Correct me if I am wrong, But a 4.0 is a perfect GPA , right?
Does that mean never making below an A+ on every single test your entire college career?
Or busting butt and doing tons of extra credit to make up for those not so perfect tests?

I would love to hear some advice and information from those of you who are keeping a 4.0 or close to it.

THANKS!

 

[SeeGulz]

Schools vary in there grading systems. Some schools have a forgiveness clause that will let you retake a class that you feel you did poorly in (mine did not). Some schools give only flat A, B, C, etc. grades, which I think would relieve some pressure, whereas other schools use a + and - system (like mine did). The A range of the former is 90%+, but the latter's is 94%+. My school did not have A+'s, but some probably do.

Most classes base their final grades on 2-3 exams and perhaps some papers, quizzes, etc. So with most you can get a B in one exam and still get an A overall. Try to get A's in your first exams, because it helps knowing that you can get a B later in the semester rather than having to be near perfect the rest of the sememster. But with that said ....

Don't try to get a 4.0. It really isn't worth it, you don't need it to get into medical school, once you are in medical school nobody will care, and it will seriously cut down on your enjoyment of school. It is hard enough to really learn something in college, but if your mind is only on the grade, you can finish first in the class but not remembering a thing a semester or two down the line. And with a 4.0, all you can do is maintain it or lose it, there is never any room for improvement ... kind of depressing really.

You will need to do well to get into medical school, but if you are disciplined and apply yourself, you will be fine. Aim for a 3.6 and above, I suppose, but there are people in medical school who have 3.2's that are studying alongside the 4.0's and the both get the same M.D. Make sure that you enjnoy yourself a little, pursue other interests, and investigate the medical field through volunteer work, etc. Oh, and a 4.0 doesn't guarantee admission anyway. Good Luck, but take it easy.

 

[umass rower]

I concur.

 

[JM.]

It is possible. However, I wouldn't make the grades your end goal. It isn't getting the grades that matters, it's getting the knowledge. Once you learn how to learn, and learn like there is no tomorrow - the grades will come.

 

[AlternateSome1]

Wait...don't forget curving! I have taken classes where I have never recieved higher than a B, but still gotten an A since the overall average was so low. In two CS classes I took, my final exam grade was a D and I made a B+ and an A- in them. But really, don't try to be perfect, just work hard, do your best, and find time to play too. If you leave your undergrad with a 4.0 and 4 painfully miserable years of memories, what was the point? Take an occasional B and have fun. A 3.6 is NOT going to kill your chances, especially considering its slightly above average (of the last set of stats I saw).

~AS1~

 

[SeeGulz]

True about the curve, but that depends on the classes and maybe the school as well. I took my pre-med classes post-bac, and saw some curving then, but nothing as an undergrad (psych major). But I think my undergrad engineering buddies had most of their classes curved.

 

[Cantal]

A 4.0 is not only possible but it is REQUIRED to make a good doctor. Same goes for 43+ on your MCATs. Please refer to the posts by Squat n Squeeze.


(joking!) 🙂

-Cantal

 

[luckyzero]

Thanks so much for the info so far.

It makes a lot more sense now.

I will probably not kill myself to get a 4.0, I just didn't know the importance of it , and how attainable it is.

I would definately strive for a high GPA though (can't hurt on your med school app) mainly because the college I am looking into attending has scholarship programs for students with above a 3.8 gpa, and that would help keep me from racking up to much undergrad debt.


Thanks again!

 

[deez4life]

Originally posted by luckyzero


I know it can be done, I know a lot of students do it, BUT HOW?

It can be done. However, it's a different story if you're going to a Tier 1 school. Going to Podunk U, it's easy, almost common, to have a near 4.0 GPA. At top tier schools, it is drastically more demanding to get the same 4.0 that your friend at CC is getting while studying half as much. The competition and rigid distribution of grades in premed classes make it exponentially harder to keep your 4.0 at a higher ranked school.

This variablity in academic rigor is the reason that med school adcoms consider your undergraduate institution, and also the reason that the MCAT is the great equalizer for the applicant pool.

deez

 

[superdevil]

Having an undergrad 4.0 GPA is certainly not impossible. I'm a junior working toward a B.S. in Bio, and I still have one (here I must mention, though, that I go to Podunk State and that we don't have a +/- grading system).

When you say that, "I know a lot of students do it," you must realize that, although this is true, they don't always earn it the hard way. For instance, lets say at some fictional school, there is separate on-campus housing for students in the Honors program. You may wonder why they all have 4.0's, and you may even convince yourself that they are superior students. What if they keep all of their old tests, redistribute them among themselves, and study exactly what they need to- no more, no less. This can also occur with older siblings who attended the same courses at the same schools. Not that I think this is "wrong" or anything (hell, I sure could have used the help!), but it happens.

If you're going to Hopkins or Harvard, you may struggle to keep such an obscene GPA. Like the other posters already said, though, having a 4.0 isn't exactly that big of a deal, anyway.
Just enjoy life and keep your average >3.5 and let everything fall into place.

 

[Gleevec]

The difficulty of getting a 4.0 depends on which school you go to. Most public schools (sans UCB and a few others) you will see people with 4.0s or 3.95s or whatnot. Even if you get a 4.0, the big test is the MCAT. If you get a 4.0 GPA and a <30 MCAT, adcoms will assume your GPA is due to ease of curriculum and not your natural abilities.

So yeah a 4.0 is possible, and even probable at some schools (one of my in-state schools counts APs towards their GPA!). The MCAT is more important however in "confirming" your GPA to adcoms.

 

[luckyzero]

Does anyone have any links to MCAT related info?

Basically I am just trying to understand the grading scale for that, average scores, what kind of scores medschools want to see, etc...

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by luckyzero
Does anyone have any links to MCAT related info?

Basically I am just trying to understand the grading scale for that, average scores, what kind of scores medschools want to see, etc...

Depending on which med school youre talking about it depends. Buy an online subscription to USNews after you take the MCATs. It will help you pick a good range of schools within your stat range.

There are no real averages for all med schools, though the consensus is 3.6+ and 30+ MCAT will get you in somewhere.

 

[DALABROKA]

Originally posted by luckyzero
Or busting butt and doing tons of extra credit to make up for those not so perfect tests?

Extra credit? HA!! Welcome to college, the land of no such thing!

DALA

 

[luckyzero]

Ok, I found this on the AAMC site:
"
For VR, there are 65 questions, with a scoring range of 1 to 13-15.
For PS, there are 77 questions, with a scoring range of 1 to 15.
For BS, there are 77 questions, with a scoring range of 1 to 15.
For WS, there are 2 questions, with a scoring range of J to T.
"
So that means a perfect score would be 45 t?

 

[carcrazyguy]

A 4.0 is "do-able". My wife is a senior and is working on keeping hers!! However, it does not get you into med-school. It is a combination of GPA-MCAT- and attitude/personal presentation.

 

[thackl]

It's all about ballance and cosistency. I stressed a little too much my freshman year (didn't know how to study/ballance/consitency) and ended up with a 3.5. I kind of got a clue after that and had 4yrs of 4.0's and a 3.9 at graduation (I went to a 5 yr school...... co-op's). Be smart and treat school like a skill that can be tinkered with and honed. I had a lot friends who by the end were studying much more than I to get worse grades.

Also, if you go into something like engineering/chem/physics, make sure you really understand the material/theories (don't memorize). This will make you stand out as the courses get more difficult and you will have an easier time with more complex subject and derivations.

I also found going to class very helpful. At the undergrad level, prof's will generally tell you everything you need to know for a test. The kids who skip end up studying so much stuff out of the book that isn't necessarily required. Get perfect scores on out-of-class assignments. Don't procrastinate....... I don't mean run home and do an assignment right away, but give yourself time for issues. Unless it was memorization, I never studied the night before/day of a test. Work hard in the begining while figuring the prof out so you can relax at the end while everyone else stresses (I was great at this).

I still had plenty of time to party, work out, play b-ball, work, f$ck and hang with friends. Study smart, not hard. Good luck.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by luckyzero
Ok, I found this on the AAMC site:
"
For VR, there are 65 questions, with a scoring range of 1 to 13-15.
For PS, there are 77 questions, with a scoring range of 1 to 15.
For BS, there are 77 questions, with a scoring range of 1 to 15.
For WS, there are 2 questions, with a scoring range of J to T.
"
So that means a perfect score would be 45 t?

Yeah. Anything above a 36 though is considered very very good. Dont think about falling short of a 45T, just think about getting as high a score as you can.

 

[Squat n Squeeze]

A 4.0 gpa is very possible with hard work. I say you should try your best for it. Since you're starting out clean as a freshman, make the most of it. Most of these inferior posters are just bitter over their sub-par averages and want to bring you down with them. The bottom line is that no matter where you go to school, whether it is a state school or an Ivy, a 4.0 will make you stand out from the other applicants. It shows the medical school admissions officers, who are often pressed for time, that you are able to excel and that you are capable of perfection. It will get you an interview in 99 out of 100 cases. Try your hardest, but at least keep your gpa above 3.8 if you want a shot at the top tier schools. Just keep in mind that you are starting out clean, and if you apply yourself enough, you will do it.

On a final note, it's never too early to start worrying about the MCAT. Shoot for at least a 38+ score. I didn't receive a perfect score on it from cramming for two months before the test. Rather, I kept it in mind and actually thoroughly absorbed what I learned in my classes. Keep a notebook for MCAT notes as you complete your prereqs and study it over the summer between freshman and sophomore year. Also, I suggest you take it after sophomore year, as I did, so that the material is still fresh in your mind. Good luck in college.

 

[MoCookiess]

I really think that going into school with the mindset of "I must get a 4.0 or I'm a failure" is really just setting yourself up for failure. In my experience, there are some classes that you just can't get an A in, no matter how hard you try. I know a lot of premeds that beat themselves up over bad grades, accomplishing nothing but making them feel bad about themselves and doubt themselves as future doctors. The best thing to do is just not freak out, and don't focus and things that you can't change. Do your best and make darn sure that your other classes are A's. A few B's wont ruin your future as a doctor, I promise. 😎

 

[Gleevec]

Yeah, I have had classes where the highest grade given was an A-. Some things dont work out, but it really is no big deal.

 

[luckyzero]

Thanks for the replies so far 😀

 

[mattunc]

luckyzero- There are several very important points about GPA's that haven't been mentioned yet. First, having fun in college is something you cannot forget to do. One way to completely eliminate having a good college experience is to worry about your grades too much. I just graduated with a 3.85- I studied hard but I went out all the time, etc. and had a great time doing it. On a side note, I personally thing getting a 4.0 would be nearly impossible, as I got a 4.0 three semesters and all of the others I was pretty close with just a B+ or A- thrown in. It simply takes a little luck to squeek out all A's all of the time I think. Well anyway, basically I'll be dreaming of my last couple years in college of going out all the time next week when I'm sitting in med school classes. Besides, personally I think having a 4.0 would be to your disadvantage when applying. People are right that to have a 4.0 puts a lot of pressure on you to do well on the mcat, but also it really might make you look bad in interviews. The interviewers went to college, and probably didn't make 4.0's, and are thinking to themselves, "What kind of person actually makes a 4.0? Someone who sits at their desk all day long during the best time of his life??!" My point is, you don't want to look like a huge loser who only studies. This brings me to my next main point. In addition to having fun in college, you must remember to have several unique extracurricular activities. I don't know a single person with a 4.0, but they likely don't have time to do anything cool during the semester other than study. It is more important to have other things going on so when it comes time to fill out your amcas, you'll have a well-rounded application, not just a 4.0 and nothing else. All in all, GPA doesn't matter as much as the whole picture, and you'll be alright as long as you prove somehow that you've got what it takes, be it your GPA or mcat score, volunteer activities, or even awesome letters of recommendation. Finally, to address some of your other concerns about the mcat, 10's on each section are what most people are shooting for. I can't remember for sure, but I think around 7-8 for each section is 50%, while 12's are around the 90th percentile range. So if you score between a 30 and a 36, you did pretty well, or above average. Hope this helps...

Matt

UNC Chapel Hill 2007

 

[superk0725]

A 4.0 is very possible and my good friend has done it. He actually has a 4.1 at an ivy league (you get a 4.3 for an A+, which is 98% or above) as a biochem major. and no he isnt a loser who studies all day. actually he goes out every weekend and drinks more than anyone i know and has ECs that many people would lose an arm for. granted he is an outlier but i think it comes down to time management and using your study time most effectively.

 

[Sonya]

How to get a 4.0....

* don't procrastinate
*ALWAYS stay up with or ahead of classes.
*Make a course plan so you can fit in all your classes for graduation at the proper semesters.
* maintain a normal sleep wake schedule, as much as possible
* avod cramming for exams.
*** MANAGE YOUR TIME*** PLAN HOW MUCH TIME CLASSES WILL TAKE DURING THE SEMESTER, AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ENOUGH TIME FOR WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO DO EACH SEMESTER*** This involves judging courses ahead of time, to make sure you don't take to many difficult classes at once, among many other things. everyone finds their own strategies.
* ALWAYS, ALWAYS have a study method for a class (at least for me this absolutely essential, i fall to a C grade level easy if i don't). by the third week of classes, you should know what is the routine things you always do to study for XYZ class. that way, you don't just randomly flip through the textbook wondering what to study, and in effect, get nothing done.
*Don't try to skip over neccesary courses. if you must, account for the fact that you will need to study extra hard.
* STUDY AHEAD. When the beggining of a semester is easy (or breaks if you're inclined/don't have other obligations), you can use it to go and read stuff covered later, b/c we all know semester start to get exceedingly difficult as time goes by.


This isn't a guarantee, but it's a startign ground for doing well.

and.. yes.. the people who get 4.0s at excellent universities, often do have a lot of back files, hunting easiest instructours on campus, etc.... 🙁

Aim for a 4.0, sure, always go for the gold. But, don't sweat it if you can't. Yes, a lot of people DO have 4.0s, but a TON more do not and still get in.
and no, i don't have a 4.0

Sonya

 

[luckyzero]

Thanks everyone.

 

[bosco]

Originally posted by superk0725
He actually has a 4.1 at an ivy league (you get a 4.3 for an A+, which is 98% or above)

Can we say GRADE INFLATION???

 

[luckyzero]

As I have been talking to people about this, I have heard everything from "lots of people get 4.0's" to "I only know 1 or 2 people who have a 4.0"

I'm guessing it depends a lot on the school you go to.

 

[Sonya]

at least I meant lots of people get 4.0s when you consider ALL the medical school applicants. I'm guessing 1-2% of our student body did.. this is real guess, that's it.

sonya

 

[Horseradish99]

I'm surprised that some of you know that many people who have maintained 4.0s...

At my university, a small private liberal arts school that was ranked top 50 a few years ago but has since been bumped down, there were no 4.0s in my graduating class of about 500.

Three of my closest friends had the top GPAs... and they all had received more than one A-, meaning it wasn't just one fluke class that brought their GPA down.

I guess I just doubt that 1-2% of a class (medical school class or undergrad class) would have a 4.0, but maybe I'm naive.

 

[Gleevec]

It really depends on what school you go to and how much grade inflation there is. But just remember, a 4.0 and a 30 MCAT is a LOT worse than a 3.7 and 33 MCAT. Schools will then just assume your 4.0 was due to easy courses.

 

[Miss155]

hi

I would think that a 4.0 and 30 MCAT was a good correlation, even people would say it should be higher. How high does the MCAT need to be for a 4.0.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by Miss155
hi

I would think that a 4.0 and 30 MCAT was a good correlation, even people would say it should be higher. How high does the MCAT need to be for a 4.0.

Hmm, personally I dont think a 4.0 and 30 MCAT is a good correlation. A 30 is a solid MCAT score, but a 4.0 is a FANTASTIC gpa. I think its all relative though, I was just giving an example based on my opinions.

Ideally we could get some MCAT/GPA averages and SDs for accepted students and work off that, but Im a bit lazy and dont know where I could find such data anyway.

 

[Dr Chooch]

For some reason, I have always thought that GPA and MCAT seem to be in line when the GPA X 10 is no more than 4 or 5 points away from your MCAT score. I am not on an adcom, and haven't heard anyone else ever say that....but, it seems that if you look at the avg stats for matriculating students (although analyzed independently of one another...which I know is a flaw in my argument), the avg GPA X 10 is no more than 5 points higher than the avg MCAT. And if you think of perfect stats, a 4.0 and a 45, the difference is 5 points. Extrapolate from there all you wish.

But yeah, a 4.0 and a 30 seem to be very different numbers to be thrown together.

That's my two cents...but maybe I should have just thrown them in a fountain.

 

[deleted29780]

YES , DONT THINK ABOUT GETTING A 4.0 . ALL I CAN SAY IS, IT IS NOT BEYOND U. CONDITION UR MIND TO STUDY HARD , PUSH URSELF AND TRY TO ENJOY THE PROCESS OF STUDYING. U WILL BE SURPRISED U MIGHT JUST GET A 4.0 WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT.
AS I KEEP SAYING , PEOPLE WHO EXCEL IN SCHOOL ARE NOT SUPERHUMANS, THEY ARE NORMAL, THEY JUST LEARNT HARD, AND THAT IS WHAT MOST STUDENTS FAIL TO DO BECAUSE THEY SEEM TO BE PREOCCUPIED WITH OTHER THOUGHTS APART FROM THEIR BOOKS.

I AM SPEAKING FROM EXP. BYE ALL . I LOVE SDN AND I LOVE ALL U NICE PEOPLE.

 

[spumoni620]

Originally posted by Dr Chooch
For some reason, I have always thought that GPA and MCAT seem to be in line when the GPA X 10 is no more than 4 or 5 points away from your MCAT score. I am not on an adcom, and haven't heard anyone else ever say that....but, it seems that if you look at the avg stats for matriculating students (although analyzed independently of one another...which I know is a flaw in my argument), the avg GPA X 10 is no more than 5 points higher than the avg MCAT. And if you think of perfect stats, a 4.0 and a 45, the difference is 5 points. Extrapolate from there all you wish.

But yeah, a 4.0 and a 30 seem to be very different numbers to be thrown together.

That's my two cents...but maybe I should have just thrown them in a fountain.

Wow, that's an interesting way to look at it...makes sense, IMO.

I would agree w/Gleevec & Chooch...a 4.0 and 30 seem somewhat off base...of course it also depends on your major. 4.0s in less-demanding majors might be on par with the 30. but i'd think (and i don't know where i'm pulling these #'s from) a credible 4.0 should be at least a 33+ MCAT.

But that's just my humble opinion...

😀

 

[fun8stuff]

I haven't seen much correlation between GPA and MCAT at my school. Some people have 3.2 to 3.6 and have 35+ MCATs, while there are others with 4.0s and 27-33 MCATs. The only correlation that I have observed is that the people who do well on the MCAT say that they have always done well on standarized tests and the ones who don't do so well, even if they have a 4.0, say that they have always struggled with standardized tests.

 

[ajnak182]

A 4.0 is great. If you are capable of doing it, all the power to ya. I would, however, stress that the college experience involves much more than just the knowledge you obtain in your classes. The people you meet, the clubs ya join, the nights where you find your head in a toilet because you downed 3 too many, those things shape who you are and will help make you a well-rounded, interesting doc. A strong GPA is key, but I'd always take a lower GPA along with my college experiences over a 4.0 any day. My point? Go for the 4.0, work damn hard. If you have a life and a 4.0, that's badass. But don't sacrifice a large amount of potential life experiences for textbook learning and 4.0 when you could have been playing a club sport or volunteering in a homeless clinic with a 3.8. GOOD LUCK TO YA! 🙂

AJ

 

[Super Rob]

Here's what a 4.0 is about:

1. Attending every lecture
2. Completing every assignment
3. Really having a grasp of the material
4. Making academics one of your top three priorities
5. Luck


We'll start at the bottom: someone on here said that there were NO 4.0s in an entire graduating class. Someone else said that a teacher only awarded A minuses and lower. There exists the possibility that your grade point average is something that you do not have complete control over. Medical schools realize this (check out the MSAR). After about a 3.8, your chances of getting accepted somewhere stay about the same.

If you really want something, than go for it. If I told you that GPA isn't really all too important in the scheme of things or that numbers do not make the applicant, I would be a hypocrite because I always made sure I got the highest grades I could, even if I was disinterested in a subject or had to study while all of my friends went out to the movies.

Oh yeah, I left "being smart" off of the list. I'd guess that one comes natural to most premed types 😛

Don't stress out - Just do your best!

 

[sanoge7]

Well, I want to add something about the 4.0/30 correlation. A 4.0 at school X is not a 4.0 at school Y. I think that in addition to the difficulty of the course load one needs to take into account the school's acadmemic reputation and course rigor. A 4.0 at one school will scream "phenomenal" more than at another. So, I think that a 4.0/30 would be an understandable correlation if the person took "easy classes" at a school with a so-so academic reputation. do you agree? or am I just going crazy?