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4 Time Reapplicant (Canadian) Finally Accepted to M.D. School

Discussion in 'Re-Applicants [ MD / DO ]' started by keepontruckin04, Feb 3, 2017.

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  1. keepontruckin04

    keepontruckin04 5+ Year Member

    46
    92
    Feb 12, 2012
    Canada
    Who I Am:
    • Canadian 4 time re-applicant to U.S. M.D. schools.
    • I received 8 interview invites, attended 7 interviews, was accepted to 5 D.O. schools and 1 M.D. school thus far. I am waiting to hear back from 1 M.D. school.
    • First generation to have obtained a bachelor’s degree; the only one in my family to have obtained a master’s degree or be admitted to medical school.
    • My cumulative uGPA was 3.8x and my cumulative gGPA was 4.0
    • I took the “old” MCAT 4 times with cumulative scores ranging from 26-34 with a mostly upward trend
    • Employment: golf course, research assistant, receptionist, intramural sport official, manager and medical assistant of family medicine clinic.
    • Volunteering: hospital volunteer (2 different departments), eye clinic volunteer.
    • Shadowing: observership at a U.S. hospital, shadowed paediatrician, shadowed interventional cardiologist.
    • Research: undergraduate thesis project, Master’s research project, volunteer clinical research projects, several publications and poster presentations.
    Purpose:
    • To give distilled advice to future U.S. medical school applicants from the perspective of a Canadian re-applicant by highlighting where I went wrong and where I went right.
    • To encourage others with similar experiences to contribute to the conversation.
    Motive:
    • I have some time before matriculating and wanted to create a resource that could help prevent others from spending unnecessary time, effort, and money trying to get into a U.S. medical school.
    • I specifically wanted to help Canadian and other non-U.S. residents given that:
    1. It’s rare for Canadians (and other non-U.S. residents) to matriculate at U.S. M.D. schools. According to AAMC, only 112 of 21,030 total matriculants had a legal residence outside of the U.S. for entering 2016-2017 classes (https://www.aamc.org/download/321462/data/factstablea4.pdf) AND
    2. The expectations for Canadians (and other non-U.S. residents) are higher compared to U.S. residents. For 2016-2017 entering classes, average matriculant MCAT for U.S. residents was 506 ( 73rd percentile) compared to 512 (88th percentile) for non-residents; average matriculant GPA for U.S. residents was 3.69 compared to 3.74 for non residents (https://www.aamc.org/download/321502/data/factstablea20.pdf)
    Disclaimer:
    • The thoughts in this post are based on my opinions.

    Before Applying - What I Would Have Done Differently:

    Undergraduate Years:
    • I wish I knew that freshman year was not a write-off. The medical school that I was originally interested in attending only looked at the most recent 2 years of study to calculate GPA and I assumed that all other schools did something similar. If I made myself aware of this incorrect assumption, it would have changed my academic habits in my first year. I would have been less apt to skip my 8:30 am calculus classes, slack off on my gen chem homework, and more motivated to make adjustments to my overall study habits.
    • I wish that I made more of an effort to get to know my professors outside of the classroom. I knew that I would eventually need to ask for letters of recommendation but I wan’t willing to make an effort to regularly speak with many of them. I didn’t want to be known as a “suck up” and I felt like I might have said something that would have made them think less of me. However, by failing to make an effort, it was difficult to find professors that were willing to write me letters of recommendation.
    • I wish that I became more involved in clubs and committees. Only after graduating did I realize how many opportunities exist on university campuses.
    • I wish that I studied abroad for a semester. I used to think that studying abroad was only possible for wealthy students and I failed to realize that there were institutional subsidies available to students who applied. It would have been an amazing opportunity to experience another culture and to have had something else interesting to talk about during interviews.
    • I wish I made more of an effort to shadow physicians either during the school year or during my summers.
    • I wish that I created a log of activities and recorded details like: the number of hours, contact information, responsibilities, dates, and any key lessons that were learned. When it came time to filling out my application, it would have made my life a lot easier.
    MCAT
    • I wish that strictly focussed on studying for the MCAT full time instead of working full time in a very physically demanding job and being left with very little time/energy for studying.
    • I wish that I had made myself aware that rewriting the MCAT can reduce your chances at being admitted to medical school. I incorrectly thought that if I did poorly on my first attempt, I could simply rewrite it the following year without any consequences.
    • I wish that I planned more time to complete all full length AAMC practice tests after reviewing all material.
    Before Applying
    • I wish that I was more realistic with my chances as an applicant. In retrospect I should not have applied before I achieved a “good” MCAT score (30+ for the old scale which equates to 79 percentile and above), obtained clinical experience, or obtained more shadowing experience.
    • I wish that I applied to both D.O and M.D schools the first time - D.O.s ultimately have the same scope of work and similar salaries to M.D.s

    Applying - What I Did Right:

    School Selection
    • Here’s how I selected allopathic schools using MSAR (https://services.aamc.org/msar/home#null)
      • First I filtered schools that both say that they accept international student applications and have had international students matriculate in the previous year. Some schools don’t actually have any international students that matriculated although they will accept payme… I mean applications from international students so check MSAR just to be safe.
      • Second I filtered schools based on GPA and MCAT scores. I only applied to schools in which my MCAT and GPA coincided with at least the tenth percentile of previous year matriculants. Pay attention to how your MCAT and GPA are screened but keep in mind that all scores will show up and that they will all have an unpredictable impact on any admissions decisions made by the school - call or email the school in order to determine how MCAT scores are screened.
      • Next I filtered schools by mission statement and made sure that I aligned with their respective missions.
      • Next I filtered by letter of recommendation requirements and required course work.
        • Keep in mind that the application process can be expensive.
    • For osteopathic school selection, use the free Osteopathic Medical College Information Book: (http://www.aacom.org/news-and-events/publications/cib)
    Personal Statement
    Activities
    • Entering activity descriptions is controversial but I found useful information here (https://forums.studentdoctor.net/th...-tips-thread-2016-2017.1189311/#post-17545539)
    • The number of activities that you can enter in AACOMAS is virtually unlimited compared to AMCAS which only allows you to enter 15 so when deciding, try to make sure that you enter activities that a) were/are truly meaningful to you and b) activities that might demonstrate qualities that are highly sought after by admissions committees
    Secondary Essays
    • Put yourself in admission committee members’ shoes. Would you really want to read essays full of fluffy cliches? Wouldn’t you eventually get fed up with the sheer volume of applications that you had to read?
      • Only say what needs to be said in a succinct, organized, and eloquent way.
      • Do not feel the need to meet character or word limits.
      • Use simple language instead of fancy words when possible.
    • There might be a delay between the time that you submit your primary AMCAS or AACOMAS applications and when you receive secondary applications. Don’t just wait for secondaries to arrive - secondary prompts rarely change year to year so look up previous year’s prompts using SDN and begin drafting answers while paying attention to character/word limits. Once secondaries are released, you will be prepared for a quick turnaround.
    • Sometimes it isn’t possible to pre-write all essays. If this is the case, you should prioritize the schools that you want to attend or the ones in which you think that you have the best chance at. Play to your strengths.
    Timeline
    • Prepare to submit your applications early
    • Order and send transcripts to AMCAS and/or AACOMAS as soon as possible
    • Gathering letters of reference may very well be the rate limiting step of completing a submitted application for a few reasons. For one, you cannot send reference requests until AMCAS opens. If you wait until this time to send requests to professors etc, it is likely that others will have also requested the same and this might delay your progress. To avoid this, I used Interfolio (https://www.interfolio.com) where I was able to request, store, and send letters of reference electronically to both AMCAS and individual D.O. schools. This way, I was able to request letters during quiet times and send them electronically with few delays. An added bonus is that I could use these letters in future application cycles should I have needed to re-apply.
    Interviews
    • Preparation is key - know your application well, be prepared to answer questions about personal strengths and weaknesses, and about why you want to get into medicine
    • Know about the activities that you were involved with and how they have changed you as a person, or what you have learned from participating. Use specific examples.
    • During a traditional interview, you have control over the conversation (for the most part) and you can use this control to touch on a few key points that you want to convey about yourself.
    • Some useful resources that I used included:
      • The Premed Playbook Guide to the Medical School Interview: Be Prepared, Perform Well, Get Accepted by Ryan Gray
      • Multiple Mini Interview (MMI): Winning Strategies From Admissions Faculty by Samir Desai
      • Using the SDN “Interview Feedback” section to figure out which questions to expect at different schools
    If Accepted:

    Finances
    • Canadian banks will only allow up to $250k - $275k CAD loans. Given the exchange rate which sits currently at about 0.77 along with the high tuition rates of ~50k USD per year, plus living expenses, required health insurance, and loan fees (among others), U.S. medical school is very expensive.
    • In fact, it is impossible to pay for a U.S. medical education if one were to rely solely on bank loans. I am one of the lucky few who managed to get help elsewhere
    • Point is: make sure that you can get access to funds before matriculating.
    • Some schools offer scholarships to Canadian matriculants
    Re-applying:

    Reviewing Your Application
    • Make calls and send emails to the admissions committees asking for feedback. Even though most schools say that they don’t have the resources to do something like that, I still managed to speak with admissions committee members from multiple schools to help me identify weak areas so that I could improve them in the following year.
    • Address your weaknesses before re-applying. This usually (but not always) means foregoing the next application cycle and using that time to improve your application.
    GOOD LUCK!
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
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  3. summergirl

    summergirl 5+ Year Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    One of my favorite posts on sdn! There are so few informative posts regarding Canadian applications and this is a very necessary addition. I hope future Canadian premedical students can take a closer read at this post and learn about some of the things I've had to learn from my mistakes.
     
    keepontruckin04 likes this.
  4. xffan624

    xffan624 2+ Year Member

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    Jan 6, 2013
    Given your obviously thorough analysis of the situation, why do you think you were a four time reapplicant and what was different on the 4th time?
     
  5. keepontruckin04

    keepontruckin04 5+ Year Member

    46
    92
    Feb 12, 2012
    Canada
    This is a loaded question so please brace yourself:

    While I can’t tell you exactly why I wasn’t admitted in my first 3 attempts (I don’t know what goes on behind closed doors of admission committee members), I can speculate and list some of the main factors why I think that I wasn’t accepted and what changes I made.

    Application Cycle #1

    Negatives:
    • Multiple “poor” MCAT scores (26-28):
      • I say “poor” because I only applied to “top tier” and “mid tier” allopathic schools which generally have higher expectations relative to “low tier” allopathic or osteopathic schools
      • I took the MCAT twice at this point with little improvement so this likely didn’t play in my favour
    • Poor school selection:
      • Like I mentioned above, I only applied to “top tier” and “mid tier” programs without making use of the valuable information found in MSAR. Moreover I didn’t apply to osteopathic schools, which may have been a better option given my MCAT scores.
    • I didn’t fully appreciate the importance of the personal statement and consequently it turned out to be soooooooo bland and lame. I just skimmed over it and rolled my eyes while reading. It was filled with fluff, I spent way too much time listing off activities, I used “resume language” to describe the skills that I developed, and I presented my life story in the format of a timeline. Truly cringe worthy.
    • I submitted my applications late *facepalm*
    • I’m an international applicant
    Application Cycle #2

    Improvements over previous cycle:
    • Master’s research project experience, teaching assistant experience, and graduate scholarships
    • New volunteer experiences
    • Improved MCAT score
    • New letters of recommendation
    • Publication from undergraduate thesis project
    • Improved personal statement
    Negatives:
    • Multiple MCAT rewrites:
      • I wrote the test 3 times at this point despite my best score being 34
    • School selection was improved over the previous year but I still applied to many “top tier” schools. I still chose not to apply to osteopathic schools.
    • I submitted my applications late again *double facepalm*
    • I’m an international applicant
    Application Cycle #3

    Improvements over previous cycle:
    • Completed Master’s degree
    • Poster presentation author
    • More volunteer activities
    • More clinical experiences
    • Further refined personal statement
    • Improved school selection
    • Submitted complete applications early-ish
    Negatives:
    • Multiple MCAT rewrites:
      • I wrote the test 4 times at this point because my previous test result expired and my most recent score was slightly lower than my previous one
    • Poor interview preparation:
      • I received 2 interview invites and went into both of my interviews with an “I’m-just-so-happy-to-finally-be-here” attitude. I had no clear points that I wanted to get across and lacked confidence and poise. Hawaii was nice though :)
    • School selection was better but I still chose not to apply to osteopathic programs
    • I’m an international applicant
    Application Cycle #4

    Improvements over previous cycle:
    • Clinical research experience + publications and poster presentations
    • More clinical experience (leadership role)
    • More shadowing experience (observership and D.O. shadowing experience)
    • Improved personal statement
    • Good school selection. I applied to D.O. schools this time and found this website very helpful as a Canadian (http://www.studentdo.ca)
    • Good interview preparation
    • More volunteer experience
    • Submitted applications earlier this time
    • New letters of reference
    • Much better secondary essays
    Negatives:
    • Still had multiple MCAT rewrites (4 )
    • Considered a reapplicant at many schools (I suspect this had a negative impact)
    • I’m an international applicant

    Hope this helps!
     
    lide78 and cantelopeavocado like this.
  6. Bboyzen202

    Bboyzen202

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    Jan 27, 2016
    if you dont mind me asking which american med schools did you apply to in your fourth cycle and any recommendations on which schools to apply?
     
  7. Bboyzen202

    Bboyzen202

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    Jan 27, 2016
    if you dont mind me asking which american med schools did you apply to in your fourth cycle and any recommendations on which schools to apply?
     
  8. keepontruckin04

    keepontruckin04 5+ Year Member

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    Feb 12, 2012
    Canada
    Below are the schools that I applied to in my 4th application cycle:

    Osteopathic Schools:

    Arizona COM of Midwestern University (AZCOM/MWU)
    Campbell University Jerry M. Wallace SOM (CUSOM) *** I was rejected 5 minutes after submitting my primary since they do not usually accept international students
    Chicago COM of Midwestern University (CCOM/MWU)
    Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences COM (KCUMB-COM)
    Lake Erie COM (LECOM) ***Never received secondary and this school doesn’t usually accept international students
    Lincoln Memorial University–DeBusk COM (LMU-DCOM)
    Michigan State University COM (MSUCOM) *** This school has a special program for Canadian students who wish to match in Canada with reduced tuition rates (http://www.com.msu.edu/Admissions/Documents/Canadian_Initiative.htm)
    Philadelphia COM (PCOM)
    Georgia Campus-Philadelphia COM (GA-PCOM)
    Touro COM (TouroCOM-NY)
    University of New England COM (UNECOM)
    Western Univ. of Health Sciences–COM of the Pacific (WesternU/COMP)
    NOVA

    Allopathic Schools:

    Albert Einstein
    BU
    Columbia
    Geisel SOM at Dartmouth
    GWU
    Georgetown
    Icahn SOM at Mount Sinai
    Tulane
    U of Pittsburgh
    Wayne State

    In regards to recommending which schools you should apply to, you can reference my original post. I pasted the relevant section below but I encourage you to also seek out other resources to help you decide:

    ◦ Here’s how I selected allopathic schools using MSAR (https://services.aamc.org/msar/home#null)
    ▪ First I filtered schools that both say that they accept international student applications and have had international students matriculate in the previous year. Some schools don’t actually have any international students that matriculated although they will accept payme… I mean applications from international students so check MSAR just to be safe.
    ▪ Second I filtered schools based on GPA and MCAT scores. I only applied to schools in which my MCAT and GPA coincided with at least the tenth percentile of previous year matriculants. Pay attention to how your MCAT and GPA are screened but keep in mind that all scores will show up and that they will all have an unpredictable impact on any admissions decisions made by the school - call or email the school in order to determine how MCAT scores are screened.
    ▪ Next I filtered schools by mission statement and made sure that I aligned with their respective missions.
    ▪ Next I filtered by letter of recommendation requirements and required course work.
    ▪ Keep in mind that the application process can be expensive.​
    ◦ For osteopathic school selection, use the free Osteopathic Medical College Information Book: (http://www.aacom.org/news-and-events/publications/cib)

    Cheers
     
    lide78 likes this.
  9. QofQuimica

    QofQuimica Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting.... Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved SDN Administrator 10+ Year Member

    The OP has received an Amazon gift card from the SDN staff in recognition of his/her excellent and helpful posts in this thread. Thanks for sharing your experiences with the SDN community, KOT, and congrats on your acceptances. :thumbup: :hardy:
     
  10. victorias

    victorias

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    Thank you for sharing your experience and taking the time to write such a thorough and honest post!

    If you don't mind sharing, what was your MCAT score breakdown?
     
  11. keepontruckin04

    keepontruckin04 5+ Year Member

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    Unfortunately, I won't be posting my MCAT breakdown but I sent you a DM that might help!
     
  12. ConfusedChemist

    ConfusedChemist 2+ Year Member

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    Out of curiosity, why did you never apply to Canadian schools? Given the challenge of being considered IMG in Canada if you had only gotten accepted to DO schools/the increase cost?
     
  13. keepontruckin04

    keepontruckin04 5+ Year Member

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    I did in fact apply to Canadian schools to no avail. I have found that Canadian schools are ultra competitive with regards to stats (especially as an Ontario resident) in comparison to many U.S. schools, which arguable take extracurricular experiences into greater consideration (but this is just my opinion).

    You raise a really good point about risking being an IMG as a D.O. graduate for the Canadian match. I believe this took effect in the last few years and I'll admit that I wasn't made aware of it until after I finished interviewing at osteopathic schools. With that said, it might help to mention that I was - and still am - open to working in the U.S. after graduation and I'm not in any rush to go back to Canada. In any case, I just wanted to pursue my dream of becoming a physician despite any future hurdles.

    So for Canadians reading this in the future, note that if you want to apply to osteopathic schools in the U.S. it is now recommended by COMSA to complete residency training in the U.S. instead of attempting to match in CaRMS because, like @ConfusedChemist mentioned, as a Canadian U.S. D.O. graduate, you will be considered an IMG in CaRMS. In contrast, as a Canadian U.S. M.D. graduate, you will be considered a CMG (to the best of my knowledge).

    Another good point mentioned is that U.S. medical school is much more expensive than Canadian schools. In general, annual tuition in the U.S. is around $53 000 USD vs. ~ $15 000(ish) CAD for Canadian medical schools (these are costs that I have seen but please correct me if I'm wrong). Since Canadian banks will only allow up to $250-275k CAD line of credit, you will need to have an supplemental method to pay for U.S. medical school - which isn't always feasible, so if you do apply to U.S medical schools, it is in your best interest to find out how you will pay for it!
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
    Mr Giggles likes this.
  14. medbunny56

    medbunny56

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    Did you get questioned a lot about taking the mcat four times? Or did the adcoms value your improvements
     
  15. keepontruckin04

    keepontruckin04 5+ Year Member

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    Canada
    This was only brought up in one of my interviews. However, as with any potential weakness on your application, I highly suggest that you prepare to take ownership of said "weakness", explain why you think said result occurred (in the least defensive way possible), describe what you learned from your experience, and outline the steps that you've taken or are currently taking to improve.
     
  16. Hopeful2021

    Hopeful2021 Psyched

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    Hi there,

    Thank you for such a helpful post. I am also a fellow Canadian applying to both MD and DO schools this cycle. If you don't mind, could you share which DO schools you were accepted to?
     
  17. keepontruckin04

    keepontruckin04 5+ Year Member

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    Feb 12, 2012
    Canada
    I was accepted at AZCOM, KCUCOM, LMUDCOM, UNECOM, WesternUCOMP, and invited to interview at MSUCOM but did not attend.



    Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile
     
    gyngyn likes this.
  18. Hopeful2021

    Hopeful2021 Psyched

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    Thank you!!!
     
  19. Mr Donald Mouse

    Mr Donald Mouse

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    Do you think I have a good shot at a US md school. I think my stats are pretty decent. Last cycle I only applied to Ontario schools and got an interview at Ottawa but not luck :( My stats are 4.0/510/pretty good ecs
     
    The_Great_Wumbo likes this.
  20. The_Great_Wumbo

    The_Great_Wumbo

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    It is quite discouraging being a Canadain Pre Med. You have a perfect GPA and decent MCAT yet were still denied in your own province.

    Absolutely appaled by how needlessly competitive it is here. That's why I've been snooping the Forums looking for Information regarding U.S M.D and D.O in the event that my GPA falls underneath a 3.8.

    I already have the mindset that I won't get accepted the first cycle here in Canada. Especially being an Anglo-Phone here in Quebec where the only viable option in-province for medical school is Mcgill which has been like getting into Fort Knox in recent years.
     
    CeruleanGFP and Mr Donald Mouse like this.
  21. Mr Donald Mouse

    Mr Donald Mouse

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    If you really want to get into something in Canada, I would recommend taking the oat and dat. Then you can apply to dental and optometry school. I got a 400 on the oat and wrote the dat today and got a 25 so they are much easier than the mcat. I'll probably get into Waterloo optometry and uoft dental this cycle hopefully!!
     
  22. The_Great_Wumbo

    The_Great_Wumbo

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    I'm going for D.O or M.D or bust, especially with my current 4.0GPA. The salaries for optometrists are also incomparable to M.D's . Sad!
     
  23. ConfusedChemist

    ConfusedChemist 2+ Year Member

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    realistically you need to rewrite the MCAT or improve your ECs. Those are the reasons you aren't getting interviews. Apply across the country, not just ON
     
  24. The_Great_Wumbo

    The_Great_Wumbo

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    I'm not the person you meant to reply to, but I'd have to agree with you. It is common knowledge that Ontario is the worst province to be a Med School student in, I wish nothing but the best of luck to all Canadian Pre Meds struggling to find a school.

    I myself am still completing my Undergrad in Montreal, and I'm only writing the MCAT in 2019.
     
  25. CeruleanGFP

    CeruleanGFP

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    As a Canadian, how did you manage to get shadowing experience? I've tried to across Ontario and even in New York with no luck because of documentation/legal requirements
     
  26. Maskchamp

    Maskchamp

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    I know exactly what you mean. I graduated from U of T and knew I had no shot. Now I'm overseas and loving it. it is 6 years here, yes, but you would have to spend 2 years getting your stats up and re-applying and all that garbage. Also much more relaxed here. I would tell people to consider it. There are 3 Canadians in my class.
     
  27. The_Great_Wumbo

    The_Great_Wumbo

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    If I couldn't get into US MD or D.O after first and second cycle, then I would start looking at overseas. But never ever would I consider something like the Caribbean.

    Where are you studying if you don't mind me asking? 6 Years doesn't sound too bad compared to the average 2.5 - 3 cycles it takes to get accepted into a Canadian school as a Canadian.

    Maybe I'll consider overseas, especially since I saw a lot of discouraging stats about Canadians in US MD somewhere on SDN.

    Such a terrible curse it is to be a Canadian that's aspiring to become a physician :(
     
  28. Maskchamp

    Maskchamp

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    I know EXACTLY what you mean. I'm actually overseas, in Italy. It's quite pleasant. Italians are more relaxed, yet more disorganized. But there are about 5 English medical schools in Italy. I would suggest a private, like the ones in Milan, or the new ones in Torino or Bologna. Public schools are insanely cheap, too cheap, but it's not as pleasant. The teaching is still good and all, but very run down.

    Stay up north, don't go down to the south. Also, there are some great English schools in Poland. For Poland though, if you want the 4 year one, you need MCATs, GPA, letters rec, etc. The 6 year one is just a basic chem/bio entrance exam. Same for Italy, it's kind of an LSAT logic plus all the sciences. It's really not that hard at all and quite easier to get in, only a 2 hour test. Czech Republic, in Prague has Charles faculty of medicine, which is a great school and that is being taught in English as well. I have been to Prague and it is one of the most beautiful cities, and I have been fortunate enough to travel a lot.

    The only bad thing is that on top of studying, by the time you get to the 3rd year when you start clinicals, you need to be able to speak basic level of language of that country. We can't ask a 65 year old from Naples anything in English....
    But Europe is great, really is. Yes, it is harder to go back to Canada afterwards, but definitely not impossible. Especially if you are a Canadian and it also helps if you did your undergrad there.

    A lot of people like Europe a lot, so with an EU degree, you have pretty much 48 countries to chose from, with most not having licensing exams, just the language exam. Doctors are treated very well here, the pay isn't as high and all, (varies a lot country to country) but I hop on the train and an hour later I'm in France or Switzerland. Do not go to the US, my parents live there, it's a mess. Especially the health care. I don't have the heart to refuse someone dialysis because they don't have insurance, or can't afford the 100k for chemo...
    Keep in mind, if you are Canadian you have the queen on your money :)
    This means that NZ and Australia are also at your disposable. Private message me if anyone has any questions. I have been in your shoes so I know the feeling so well. I would be more than happy to help anyone. It's such a sucky feeling. My friend did a chemistry specialty at U of T, did an internship under the anatomy prof, and much more and he still couldn't get it....it's horrendous. But if you really want to stay in North America, don't give up!
     
    The_Great_Wumbo likes this.
  29. The_Great_Wumbo

    The_Great_Wumbo

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    Sep 7, 2017
    Thank you so much for your input! Your post answered all of my questions!

    I will definitely consider the UK or Australia, as I don't really know about having to learn a brand new foreign language while studying medicine. Perhaps Greece since I am fluent in Greek? hehe.
     
  30. Maskchamp

    Maskchamp

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    Jan 12, 2017
    Pleasure.

    Look into the Atlantic Bridge Program, heard it's really good, it sends students to the UK from North America. There are also some great schools in the UK for medicine, like really good. Each I think has a different entrance exam but it's definitely worth looking into. And sure, look at Greece, might be a great place to study, especially if you speak the language. Usually Americans are quite close minded with medicine, not Canadians, thinking the US is the end all or be all, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. You can get a great education anywhere. No one can't say that there aren't fantastic doctors in Argentina,Brazil, UK, Iran, India, etc..

    Best of luck, don't give up though! I pretty much had but lucky I didn't.
     
  31. ConfusedChemist

    ConfusedChemist 2+ Year Member

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    Aug 5, 2014
    Do consider the fact that if you go over seas-Caribean or otherwise-you face about a 50%/less chance of NOT matching into a residency. And you effectively force yourself to rule out most specialties.

    This person is still in medical school-they haven't done the match yet. But taking 2-3 cycles to match when your a resident with 20o-300k debt on the line is NOT at all the same kind of risk as taking a few tries to apply to medical school...
     
    The_Great_Wumbo likes this.
  32. The_Great_Wumbo

    The_Great_Wumbo

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    Sep 7, 2017
    This is also something to take into consideration. What do you think the odds are of getting into US MD or DO without any shadowing experience, but with very good GPA/MCAT? It's near impossible to do any shadowing here Canada.
     
  33. ConfusedChemist

    ConfusedChemist 2+ Year Member

    783
    401
    Aug 5, 2014
    I can't answer that question.....it is entirely dependant on what schools you are applying to.

    But, I will say that going international is more than something to just consider, it's a huge, huge component of a decision. You are essentially must accept that you will very likely not return to Canada, and that you will not even be able to consider most specialties.
     
  34. The_Great_Wumbo

    The_Great_Wumbo

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    Sep 7, 2017
    International meaning the US as well? If that's the case I gotta do what I gotta do, the fact remains that 40% of US Pre Med's find a school every cycle, whilst In Canada, it is a fraction of that. Not saying that I have a better chance down south, but I must be very broad in my application as opposed to the 10 or so schools that I'm limited to apply to here in Canada.

    I Won't even waste my time with the Ontario schools as the matriculant rate for out of province, let alone in province applications, are abysmal.

    If leaving Canada is what I have to do then I am ready. Thanks again for the feedback everyone.

    And good luck to all my fellow Canadians.
     

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