40 hours/week prn at small hospital OR full time with benefits at large hospital

[dreamshappen]

Hi I'm in a weird position and hoping for some opinions. The job market has been very rough and I was able to secure a prn position at a small hospital which I have to admit has been a great experience. I'm currently averaging about 40 hours per week and they plan on keeping it that way through vacations and days off ect. However I did score an opportunity at a large hospital that does everything (TPN,chemo,NICU ect). I was wondering whether it would be worth the risk? And which experience would be More worth it in 5 years? I have to add that the large hospital does have significant amounts turnover. Both of the positions are in rural areas and would require a 1.5 hour commute one way. I appreciate any and all feedback!

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[owlegrad]

I don't see how you can be serious. Of course take the full time gig at the large hospital. In what way would the prn job at a small hospital be an experience worth more in 5 years?

 

[gwarm01]

Take the full time gig at the big hospital, move closer, suck it up if it's a toxic environment and get as much experience as possible. You'll be infinitely more marketable in a few years.

 

[Dalteparin]

In addition to what's been posted above, if you're PRN, you aren't getting benefits of any sort. You need health insurance, retirement, and life insurance, and you can't get those at your current job.

 

[confettiflyer]

Have a talk with your current prn employer about this opportunity, I don't know your life situation (maybe you get health insurance through spouse, parents, etc...) but there's a potential you can parlay this offer into something else (part time with benefits, if that's an option at your prn site).

My first gut reaction was take the FT job, but I think there's a few more things that need to get fleshed out.

What do you like about your current job and site? What are the odds that an FT will open up? What's your current life situation and does it absolutely demand the security of guaranteed hours/benefits? What's your current wage differential for being prn?


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[rph3664]

If the large hospital has heavy turnover, there's a reason. Don't go there.

Keep the job you have now, and if some other opportunity comes along, great, but if you're getting 40 hours a week and can purchase your own health insurance and fund your own retirement plan for the time being, don't leave.

 

[zelman]

Have a talk with your current prn employer about this opportunity, I don't know your life situation (maybe you get health insurance through spouse, parents, etc...) but there's a potential you can parlay this offer into something else (part time with benefits, if that's an option at your prn site).

My first gut reaction was take the FT job, but I think there's a few more things that need to get fleshed out.

What do you like about your current job and site? What are the odds that an FT will open up? What's your current life situation and does it absolutely demand the security of guaranteed hours/benefits? What's your current wage differential for being prn?


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I agree. If there are things you like about your current position, tell them you have another opportunity and see if getting a FT position is something they can commit to in the near future. Also, make sure you get any promises of that sort in writing/email.

 

[dreamshappen]

Thank you everyone for your responses. But after reading everything, I am still confused. Here's what I like about the small hospital

1. I really have gotten to know the doctors, staff and have time to talk to the patients.
2. I like the environment and who I am working with
3. I am not stressed out whatsoever and its a strict 8 hour work day
4. I get to do everything from consults with vanc, ahminoglycosides, warfarin, ect

I am just more worried about the future and the worsening job market. The last time I had a full time job was in August and it took me until now to even get an interview for a full time. I have interviewed at LTC part time no benefits - no offer, hospital prn - offer, retail part time with benefits - offer. I have applied to over 20 jobs in the city and have gotten no response which is why I broadened my radius to 1.5 hours.

The larger hospital has very high turnover and are offering a hybrid position of clinical and staff. I notified the smaller hospital and they countered with full time hours but still no benefits. They cannot guarantee a full time opening any time soon. I like my job now but I am scared of the future. I am scared of not being marketable. I could use the benefits but I am engaged and getting married soon so I could get benefits with my future husband as well. I hate my situation. I am scared of hating the larger hospital and I am wondering if experience with NICU, ICU, Chemo, TPN, IVs is truly worth leaving a job I like and sticking it out through a toxic work environment.

I thank each and every of you for your responses!

 

[dreamshappen]

Have a talk with your current prn employer about this opportunity, I don't know your life situation (maybe you get health insurance through spouse, parents, etc...) but there's a potential you can parlay this offer into something else (part time with benefits, if that's an option at your prn site).

My first gut reaction was take the FT job, but I think there's a few more things that need to get fleshed out.

What do you like about your current job and site? What are the odds that an FT will open up? What's your current life situation and does it absolutely demand the security of guaranteed hours/benefits? What's your current wage differential for being prn?


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Thank you everyone for your responses. But after reading everything, I am still confused. Here's what I like about the small hospital
1. I really have gotten to know the doctors, staff and have time to talk to the patients.
2. I like the environment and who I am working with
3. I am not stressed out whatsoever and its a strict 8 hour work day
4. I get to do everything from consults with vanc, ahminoglycosides, warfarin, ect

I am just more worried about the future and the worsening job market. The last time I had a full time job was in August and it took me until now to even get an interview for a full time. I have interviewed at LTC part time no benefits - no offer, hospital prn - offer, retail part time with benefits - offer. I have applied to over 20 jobs in the city and have gotten no response which is why I broadened my radius to 1.5 hours.

The larger hospital has very high turnover and are offering a hybrid position of clinical and staff. I notified the smaller hospital and they countered with full time hours but still no benefits. They cannot guarantee a full time opening any time soon. I like my job now but I am scared of the future. I am scared of not being marketable. I could use the benefits but I am engaged and getting married soon so I could get benefits with my future husband as well. I hate my situation. I am scared of hating the larger hospital and I am wondering if experience with NICU, ICU, Chemo, TPN, IVs is truly worth leaving a job I like and sticking it out through a toxic work environment.

I thank each and every of you for your responses!

 

[zelman]

Thank you everyone for your responses. But after reading everything, I am still confused. Here's what I like about the small hospital
1. I really have gotten to know the doctors, staff and have time to talk to the patients.
2. I like the environment and who I am working with
3. I am not stressed out whatsoever and its a strict 8 hour work day
4. I get to do everything from consults with vanc, ahminoglycosides, warfarin, ect

I am just more worried about the future and the worsening job market. The last time I had a full time job was in August and it took me until now to even get an interview for a full time. I have interviewed at LTC part time no benefits - no offer, hospital prn - offer, retail part time with benefits - offer. I have applied to over 20 jobs in the city and have gotten no response which is why I broadened my radius to 1.5 hours.

The larger hospital has very high turnover and are offering a hybrid position of clinical and staff. I notified the smaller hospital and they countered with full time hours but still no benefits. They cannot guarantee a full time opening any time soon. I like my job now but I am scared of the future. I am scared of not being marketable. I could use the benefits but I am engaged and getting married soon so I could get benefits with my future husband as well. I hate my situation. I am scared of hating the larger hospital and I am wondering if experience with NICU, ICU, Chemo, TPN, IVs is truly worth leaving a job I like and sticking it out through a toxic work environment.

I thank each and every of you for your responses!

I believe full time hours requires that they offer at least health insurance per the ACA.

 

[dreamshappen]

I believe full time hours requires that they offer at least health insurance per the ACA.

I thought so too. But I guess they said as long as I am not working consistently every week 40 hours then they don't have to provide any benefits. My take is some weeks I'll work less than 40 and others work 40 so I can average less than full time and they don't have to pay benefits.

 

[zelman]

I thought so too. But I guess they said as long as I am not working consistently every week 40 hours then they don't have to provide any benefits. My take is some weeks I'll work less than 40 and others work 40 so I can average less than full time and they don't have to pay benefits.

Can anyone explain the "look back method"?

Definition of Full-Time Employee
For purposes of the employer shared responsibility provisions, a full-time employee is, for a calendar month, an employee employed on average at least 30 hours of service per week, or 130 hours of service per month.

There are two methods for determining full-time employee status:

• The monthly measurement method, and
• The look-back measurement method.

Under the monthly measurement method, the employer determines if an employee is a full-time employee on a month-by-month basis by looking at whether the employee has at least 130 hours of service for each month.

Under the look-back measurement method, an employer may determine the status of an employee as a full-time employee during what is referred to as the stability period, based upon the hours of service of the employee in the preceding period, which is referred to as the measurement period. The look-back measurement method may not be used to determine full-time employee status for purposes of ALE status determination.

For more information on each of these methods, see section 54.4980H-3 of the ESRP regulations.

 

[panasoniku]

If you get along so well with the PRN small hospital gig, why not work full time with benefits at the large hospital, and one shift a week at the PRN gig?

Worst case scenario the large hospital is hell and you will just resume to picking up more shifts at the PRN gig. Best case scenario you get benefits and some extra $ from a less stressful environment. You'll also have a great CV and work experience history.

 

[EyeTeeFarmer]

How did you find out there is large turnover?

 

[dreamshappen]

If you get along so well with the PRN small hospital gig, why not work full time with benefits at the large hospital, and one shift a week at the PRN gig?

Worst case scenario the large hospital is hell and you will just resume to picking up more shifts at the PRN gig. Best case scenario you get benefits and some extra $ from a less stressful environment. You'll also have a great CV and work experience history.

Thank you for the advice! I will proceed with this

 

[dreamshappen]

Word around town is it's a horrible place to work

 

[dreamshappen]

How did you find out there is large turnover?

Word around town is it's a horrible place to work

 

[rph3664]

If multiple people have told you it's a horrible place to work, THEY ARE RIGHT.

Ask me how I know this.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Thank you for the advice! I will proceed with this

How close are the hospitals? Just like retail pharmacies won't allow you to moonlight at competitors, a hospital pharmacy is also not going to allow you to moonlight at a competitor. If the 2 hospitals are close enough for you to work at both of them, they are going to be too close for you to be allowed to moonlight.

It is quite the choice you have, honestly given your situation, I would go with the full-time gig. As horrible as it might be, it is still a full-time job with full-time benefits. Having a full-time job will make you more marketable for future jobs, then just having a PRN job (even if the PRN job does give, at least sometimes, full-time hours.) A full-time job will give you more stability than a PRN job which can evaporate overnight.

 

[confettiflyer]

How close are the hospitals? Just like retail pharmacies won't allow you to moonlight at competitors, a hospital pharmacy is also not going to allow you to moonlight at a competitor. If the 2 hospitals are close enough for you to work at both of them, they are going to be too close for you to be allowed to moonlight.

Are non-competes at hospitals outside of California common for pharmacists?

 

[BidingMyTime]

Are non-competes at hospitals outside of California common for pharmacists?

Yes, at least in IL, in big cities where there is more than one hospital system, one can't moonlight at a competing system (which kind of sounded like the set-up the OP was describing, but maybe not. If the OP is talking about 2 rural hospitals a distance away, then probably neither would care (and may not even know about it, if the OP keeps quiet and doesn't go to CE meetings where they are likely to run into people from both hospitals/systems.) Most people from hospital moonlighting, do so at retail (or vice versa.) I've only known a couple of people who moonlighted at another hospital, one of them ended up getting fired, presumably over that (but there was a lot more to that story, getting caught moonlighting just made it easy for the hospital to get rid of someone, that probably would have gotten fired for another reason eventually anyway.) The other person do so with the knowledge of both hospitals, but they were a distance apart and not directly competing with each other.

 

[gwarm01]

Are non-competes at hospitals outside of California common for pharmacists?

I've never heard of this, maybe it's a regional thing?

 

[CUpharmD2013]

Can anyone explain the "look back method"?

Definition of Full-Time Employee
For purposes of the employer shared responsibility provisions, a full-time employee is, for a calendar month, an employee employed on average at least 30 hours of service per week, or 130 hours of service per month.

There are two methods for determining full-time employee status:

• The monthly measurement method, and
• The look-back measurement method.

Under the monthly measurement method, the employer determines if an employee is a full-time employee on a month-by-month basis by looking at whether the employee has at least 130 hours of service for each month.

Under the look-back measurement method, an employer may determine the status of an employee as a full-time employee during what is referred to as the stability period, based upon the hours of service of the employee in the preceding period, which is referred to as the measurement period. The look-back measurement method may not be used to determine full-time employee status for purposes of ALE status determination.

For more information on each of these methods, see section 54.4980H-3 of the ESRP regulations.

Find a local labor attorney and have them explore your current situation. My previous employer got into a lot of trouble for working "contingent" employees full time hours and not offering them benefits. If they are working you full time and not offering benefits, it is definitely against the law in most circumstances. If you don't have a case for being full time with the small hospital, take the large hospital gig and stay PRN at the small hospital (if possible) to watch for full time openings.

 

[BenJammin]

I don't think objecting to working 14 hours on top of P4 rotations is a bad thing. Remember this is 14 hours a week, not random hours that average out to 14 hours a week. I had one rotation that required me to drive an hour and a half one-way and I would be so burned out working 14 extra hours a week. Get up at 6:30 to shower and brush teeth, head out by 7:30, get to work at 9, leave at 5, get home at 6:30, and work from 7 to 9 (that's just assuming you don't want to work every weekend and choose to space out the hours). 6:30 AM to 9:00 PM. Say goodbye to your friends, you'll never see them....well, you'll never keep your eyes open long enough to see them.

Bunch of damn whiners in this thread. Enjoy your life P4!

 

[dreamshappen]

If multiple people have told you it's a horrible place to work, THEY ARE RIGHT.

Ask me how I know this.

How close are the hospitals? Just like retail pharmacies won't allow you to moonlight at competitors, a hospital pharmacy is also not going to allow you to moonlight at a competitor. If the 2 hospitals are close enough for you to work at both of them, they are going to be too close for you to be allowed to moonlight.

It is quite the choice you have, honestly given your situation, I would go with the full-time gig. As horrible as it might be, it is still a full-time job with full-time benefits. Having a full-time job will make you more marketable for future jobs, then just having a PRN job (even if the PRN job does give, at least sometimes, full-time hours.) A full-time job will give you more stability than a PRN job which can evaporate overnight.

Update - I took the full time gig. I have confirmed the large turnover. They lost 50% of their pharmacists in the last 2 years. I prefer my previous setting exponentially!

 

[TheBlaah]

Update - I took the full time gig. I have confirmed the large turnover. They lost 50% of their pharmacists in the last 2 years. I prefer my previous setting exponentially!

daang. 50%?! Any idea what's causing it?

 

[gwarm01]

Update - I took the full time gig. I have confirmed the large turnover. They lost 50% of their pharmacists in the last 2 years. I prefer my previous setting exponentially!

Hey, you knew that risk before you went in. What's important it making this work for at least a year. Once you get that first year of experience at a big hospital you will have a much easier time finding jobs at other hospitals. Seriously, get at least one year of experience then start searching for a better job with higher pay!

 

[confettiflyer]

Update - I took the full time gig. I have confirmed the large turnover. They lost 50% of their pharmacists in the last 2 years. I prefer my previous setting exponentially!

Are you staying on with your per diem gig? Because that's just $$$$$ right there. Best of luck to ya.


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[confettiflyer]

daang. 50%?! Any idea what's causing it?

Sometimes when there are managerial changes (director or supervisor leaves), some long term folks who were on the cusp of moving on use that event as a push to follow through. Less so with your clinical/staffing grunts, but more with middle mgmt and specialized roles.

But my guess is this place has a horrible work enviro and people put in their 1-2 years and move on


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[dreamshappen]

daang. 50%?! Any idea what's causing it?

Hey, you knew that risk before you went in. What's important it making this work for at least a year. Once you get that first year of experience at a big hospital you will have a much easier time finding jobs at other hospitals. Seriously, get at least one year of experience then start searching for a better job with higher pay!

Sometimes when there are managerial changes (director or supervisor leaves), some long term folks who were on the cusp of moving on use that event as a push to follow through. Less so with your clinical/staffing grunts, but more with middle mgmt and specialized roles.

But my guess is this place has a horrible work enviro and people put in their 1-2 years and move on


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The management is very terrible. Everything is super micromanaged (when to take lunch break times, whether you get a lunch or not, whether your shift starts at 6:05 or 6:15, apparently according to the current pharmacists these things change constantly) . I don't think I can make it out 1 year. When I see all the turnover and how much the current pharmacists hate it, I don't even want to try. I understand the experience is valuable but I feel like when you loose over 40+ pharmacists in 2 years something has to be majorly wrong.

My question to all of you: What is the absolute minimum amount of time to stay to get experience, build my resume and move on to a better opportunity or return to my previous setting?

 

[njac]

Probably 6 months.


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[gwarm01]

You could probably pull off 6 months if the place really has such a terrible reputation locally. Obviously the longer you last the better. If it helps, think of it as you using them to get what you want. They think they control you, but you are playing them to get experience and connections. Then you walk out of there with a polite resignation and a smile on your face because you won.

Edit: I said stay a year because most hospital openings I see want a minimum of a year's experience. A lot of people say 18 months is the optimal length to stay before jumping ship, but I say leave if you get a better opportunity that you'll stick with for a long time.

 

[dreamshappen]

You could probably pull off 6 months if the place really has such a terrible reputation locally. Obviously the longer you last the better. If it helps, think of it as you using them to get what you want. They think they control you, but you are playing them to get experience and connections. Then you walk out of there with a polite resignation and a smile on your face because you won.

Edit: I said stay a year because most hospital openings I see want a minimum of a year's experience. A lot of people say 18 months is the optimal length to stay before jumping ship, but I say leave if you get a better opportunity that you'll stick with for a long time.

I will definitely try to stick it out longer but now my plans to move my family are on hold because I do not know how long I will last. I will shoot for 6 months! I hope I make it. Today was a rough day plus rough and long commute (4 hours total). Thanks for all your replies. It's greatly appreciated

 

[dreamshappen]

Probably 6 months.


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That's what I'm shooting for

 

[njac]

I will definitely try to stick it out longer but now my plans to move my family are on hold because I do not know how long I will last. I will shoot for 6 months! I hope I make it. Today was a rough day plus rough and long commute (4 hours total). Thanks for all your replies. It's greatly appreciated

4 hours!? I'll never complain about my 2 hours a
Day again! Are they 8 or 10 HR shifts?


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[rph3664]

Can you go back to your old place now?

 

[gwarm01]

I will definitely try to stick it out longer but now my plans to move my family are on hold because I do not know how long I will last. I will shoot for 6 months! I hope I make it. Today was a rough day plus rough and long commute (4 hours total). Thanks for all your replies. It's greatly appreciated

Damn, 4 hour commute is seriously rough. I did two hours a day my first year and it was tiring.

 

[dreamshappen]

4 hours!? I'll never complain about my 2 hours a
Day again! Are they 8 or 10 HR shifts?


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Unfortunately 8 hr shifts. I wish for a 2 hour commute. Hopefully I will find a job closer with time

 

[dreamshappen]

4 hours!? I'll never complain about my 2 hours a
Day again! Are they 8 or 10 HR shifts?


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Damn, 4 hour commute is seriously rough. I did two hours a day my first year and it was tiring.

It's beyond rough. I wake up at 3:30 am. Leave the house at 4 am. Commute 2 hours. Start at 6:30. Off at 3-3:30. Commute 2 hours. Arrive home 5:30-6. Cook, get kids ready for bed, homework. Try to be in bed by 8:30 pm. 5 days a week. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. I pray I get through this every day.

 

[dreamshappen]

Can you go back to your old place now?

How would I ask? I don't even know where to begin.

 

[wagrxm2000]

How far was your prn job?

 

[rph3664]

How would I ask? I don't even know where to begin.

Call them up and tell them that the new job isn't what you expected, and can you have your old job back?