VisionaryTics

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http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2017/08/29/family-awarded-40-million-in-lawsuit-against-detroit-hospital/

Woof.

“The DMC advertises that they are the clot busters and that if you’re experiencing shortness of breath and rapid heartbeat that it could be a pulmonary embolism and that you should come right in, which she did,” Fieger told WWJ Newsradio 950’s’s Zahra Huber. “She had all the classic signs of pulmonary embolism and had they done a simple blood test they would have diagnosed it, given here a blood thinner and she’d be alive.”

The deliberation period took just under three hours with the jury announcing their verdict late on Monday.
 
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namethatsmell

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And what is the lawyer Mr. Fieger's cut of this??

Surely if he's so concerned about the family getting as much money as possible (rather than just the "small fraction" he laments) than I imagine he'll waive his fee.

Did I miss that part of the story? Since, you know, he sincerely cares and stuff.
 

southerndoc

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This will go to appeal and will be significantly reduced. Does make one wonder what her symptoms were. The plaintiff's attorney quoted DMC as saying some things that should have never been said in a courtroom when you're being sued. The jury likely played on those things. Jury Awards $40 Million Dollars for Detroit Hospital Death
 
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Bill Brasky

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And what is the lawyer Mr. Fieger's cut of this??

Surely if he's so concerned about the family getting as much money as possible (rather than just the "small fraction" he laments) than I imagine he'll waive his fee.

Did I miss that part of the story? Since, you know, he sincerely cares and stuff.
He might actually do that, he's probably running for Governor again next year.
 

xaelia

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Someone either 1) royally blew the diagnosis and treatment, or 2) royally blew the defense against the dark arts.

Chances are it's #2, but hardly any details here. The quote from the lawyer probably demonstrates how he probably rephrased otherwise innocuous testimony into the acrimonious summary leading to such a huge verdict, of course.
 

Birdstrike

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Don't make yourself a sacrificial lamb by practicing medicine in judicial hellholes, which are invariably Democrat heavy cities & states. Buy malpractice insurance. Also vote for and donate money to politicians who support tough tort reform. Democrats almost never do, as they're very loyal to the trial lawyers associations. Beyond that, live your life, be a good doc, don't spend too much time worrying about it, since the actions of predatory trial lawyers are not worth losing sleep over. They don't see you as a bad person. They don't get emotional about these cases. Neither should you. They just see you and your med-mal insurance company as a slot machine; nothing more, nothing less.
 

Rendar5

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The cost of healthcare will not be fixed until this is fixed
After being out as an attending for several years I don't really think this is a main cost driver anymore. The cost of my malpractice pales in comparison with the average ED bill that gets sent out on my behalf and on the facility behalf. Excess administration and Emtala seem to be major drivers as bills have to be high enough to also account for self-payers not paying and overhead is ridiculously high
 
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RustedFox

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After being out as an attending for several years I don't really think this is a main cost driver anymore the cost of my malpractice pales in comparison with the average ED bill that gets sent out on my behalf and on the facility behalf. Excess administration and Emtala seem to be major drivers as bills have to be high enough to also account for self-payers not paying
I am inclined to agree. The number of "quality officers" and related middle-management positions that would be totally unnecessary if not for the heavy hand of the federal government is staggering.
 
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BAM!

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After being out as an attending for several years I don't really think this is a main cost driver anymore. The cost of my malpractice pales in comparison with the average ED bill that gets sent out on my behalf and on the facility behalf. Excess administration and Emtala seem to be major drivers as bills have to be high enough to also account for self-payers not paying and overhead is ridiculously high
Yes, I agree that the administrative middle men are driving costs too. However, I think what #goodoldalky was saying is that defensive medicine is driving costs. And EMTALA is driving defensive medicine, and in turn patient day rates plus excessive testing.
 

Old_Mil

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Don't make yourself a sacrificial lamb by practicing medicine in judicial hellholes, which are invariably Democrat heavy cities & states. Buy malpractice insurance. Also vote for and donate money to politicians who support tough tort reform. Democrats almost never do, as they're very loyal to the trial lawyers associations. Beyond that, live your life, be a good doc, don't spend too much time worrying about it, since the actions of predatory trial lawyers are not worth losing sleep over. They don't see you as a bad person. They don't get emotional about these cases. Neither should you. They just see you and your med-mal insurance company as a slot machine; nothing more, nothing less.
Can't overemphasize the importance of that first part. Although most are (Washington, Oregon, Illinois, Pennsylvania) not all judicial he!llholes are controlled by Democrats (Kentucky and Missouri for instance).
 
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Birdstrike

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Defensive medicine contributes immensely to the physician generated side of out of control healthcare costs. But I agree with some of the other comments, that there are now many other factors also adding fuel to the fire. Administrative bloat, government messing and other factors (EMTALA, Medicare/Medicaid/Obamacare cost inflation, EHR requirements), insurance company factors, drug co. factors, etc.

This is not just a one, or two headed monster. It's a multi-headed monster of gargantuan proportion, fire and fury. The amount of moving parts is massive and growing. The number of grubby hands in the cookie jar, is staggering. And it's not likely to get better, simpler or more efficient. It's likely to get bigger, more complex and more arbitrary.

Just be glad it still pays well and that it gives you a chance to make a good living and still do some good for at least some people, in the process. But like any other highly regulated industry, that fortunately pays well, there will be costs of doing business. Ever increasing amounts of red tape, requirements, regulations and non-physician interference are ours. But don't ever forget, we're pigs at the trough, too. We benefit from the system as well, and more than most.
 
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Psai

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Also the number of stupid rules due to some idiotic jhaco regulation is mindblowing. I haven't seen one yet that doesn't impede patient care and cause major delays in some way. Zero improvement in patient care as well.
 
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goodoldalky

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Yes, I agree that the administrative middle men are driving costs too. However, I think what #goodoldalky was saying is that defensive medicine is driving costs. And EMTALA is driving defensive medicine, and in turn patient day rates plus excessive testing.
Of course, defensive medicine is everywhere, and you all do it, everyday. It's not solely malpractice. "Don't want to miss that sepsis metric... better order these 38 orders..." "Don't want to have to answer these emails and phone call complaints later, so here's XYZ..." "Don't want to get an email about this, better activate a whatever..." "Well, I guess they're suicidal again, I guess we gotta keep them for psych this or that for the 3rd time this week..." "Yep, chest pain... guess they should get an EKG even though they do crack and no one will do anything for this no matter the diagnosis..."

The average ED bill that goes out under this system has about 10x the testing and 100x the radiology that should be utilized. How many ankles do you X-Ray a week? How many metabolic panels do you order a week?
95% of this is pointless, and the system has made you SO accustomed to defensive medicine (of all sorts, metrics, management, malpractice, satisfaction), that you don't even realize what is defensive anymore. Do you have a quality metric that is tied to your pay? Think about how you practice in those scenarios.....
 
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Dr.McNinja

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Also the number of stupid rules due to some idiotic jhaco regulation is mindblowing. I haven't seen one yet that doesn't impede patient care and cause major delays in some way. Zero improvement in patient care as well.
Realize that most of those aren't "jhaco" (now known as TJC), but are in fact, hospital admin's inability to parse text. TJC has no rule about beverages or food at the workstation.
 
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HooliganSnail

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And what is the lawyer Mr. Fieger's cut of this??

Surely if he's so concerned about the family getting as much money as possible (rather than just the "small fraction" he laments) than I imagine he'll waive his fee.

Did I miss that part of the story? Since, you know, he sincerely cares and stuff.

No, you don't live here, so let me explain

Michigan has pretty decent tort reform, mainly limits on non-economic damages. That is what Fieger is talking about. He hates it, for obvious reasons

Fieger has run for governor in the past(and got killed in the election) and it looks like he is gearing up to do so again. He has been taking out TV ad's talking about how terrible the MI government is and that they have taken away people's God given, Constitutional right to sue other Americans.

Note how he was talking about the verdict on a radio show. He is playing politician.

He also has a fight with another famous ambulance chasing lawyer around here named Mike Morse, and is currently suing him on behalf of a skeezy woman who claims Morse sexually harassed him, a fact that he has spent money to splatter all over the local newspapers.

Welcome to Detroit!
 

southerndoc

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Realize that most of those aren't "jhaco" (now known as TJC), but are in fact, hospital admin's inability to parse text. TJC has no rule about beverages or food at the workstation.
No, TJC enforces an OSHA requirement that anywhere there is possible blood splatter, there can be no food or beverages. If you designate the nursing station as a no lab zone, then you can have drinks there. However, that means that a nurse cannot bring an i-STAT machine into the nursing area (even to charge it).

It's up to the hospital to decide where drinks are allowed, but wherever they are allowed, there can absolutely be no blood products/labs or testing equipment used to run samples inside that area.

People often don't understand what TJC is doing with the "no drinks" policy.
 
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GeneralVeers

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No, TJC enforces an OSHA requirement that anywhere there is possible blood splatter, there can be no food or beverages. If you designate the nursing station as a no lab zone, then you can have drinks there. However, that means that a nurse cannot bring an i-STAT machine into the nursing area (even to charge it).

It's up to the hospital to decide where drinks are allowed, but wherever they are allowed, there can absolutely be no blood products/labs or testing equipment used to run samples inside that area.

People often don't understand what TJC is doing with the "no drinks" policy.
Correct. The designation is based on the hospital deciding what areas, rather than TJC. Hospital admins, of course rather than being sensible and demarcating no food/drink zones, they just tell everyone no food/drinks anywhere in the ED. It's used as an intimidation tactic on the nurses.

There is never any blood, tissue, or testing equipment anywhere near my desk or work area. Therefore no reason I can't drink my covfefe.
 

Siggy

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Don't make yourself a sacrificial lamb by practicing medicine in judicial hellholes, which are invariably Democrat heavy cities & states. Buy malpractice insurance. Also vote for and donate money to politicians who support tough tort reform. Democrats almost never do, as they're very loyal to the trial lawyers associations. Beyond that, live your life, be a good doc, don't spend too much time worrying about it, since the actions of predatory trial lawyers are not worth losing sleep over. They don't see you as a bad person. They don't get emotional about these cases. Neither should you. They just see you and your med-mal insurance company as a slot machine; nothing more, nothing less.

Difficulty? Supporting a party that, by an large, refuses to call out one of the worst presidents in the history of the US if it's anything short of saying that there are good white supremacists.
 

Birdstrike

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Difficulty? Supporting a party that, by an large, refuses to call out one of the worst presidents in the history of the US if it's anything short of saying that there are good white supremacists.
I was specifically referring to the difference in the parties on tort reform only, and not every other issue in existence. I was also not implying that there is any political party that's correct on every issue. But you're right, that there are no good white supremacists and that there is no one worse than nazi's and neo-nazi's. They are the worst and everyone knows that.

Why are you minimizing the awful state of frivolous lawsuits, it's effect on all of us and the dire need for medical malpractice liability reform?
 
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Birdstrike

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No, TJC enforces an OSHA requirement that anywhere there is possible blood splatter, there can be no food or beverages. If you designate the nursing station as a no lab zone, then you can have drinks there. However, that means that a nurse cannot bring an i-STAT machine into the nursing area (even to charge it).

It's up to the hospital to decide where drinks are allowed, but wherever they are allowed, there can absolutely be no blood products/labs or testing equipment used to run samples inside that area.

People often don't understand what TJC is doing with the "no drinks" policy.
I remember not too long ago at my last hospital gig, some administrative dinguses came around and made sure we locked up all sterile water, saline and neosporin packets because Joint Commission decided they were "drugs" that would be dangerous if patients had easy access. When I asked them when they were going to shut off the water, to prevent the "dangerous drugs" from coming out of the faucets, they looked at me like I had a ---k coming out of my forehead.
 
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Nephro critical care

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No, you don't live here, so let me explain

Michigan has pretty decent tort reform, mainly limits on non-economic damages. That is what Fieger is talking about. He hates it, for obvious reasons

Fieger has run for governor in the past(and got killed in the election) and it looks like he is gearing up to do so again. He has been taking out TV ad's talking about how terrible the MI government is and that they have taken away people's God given, Constitutional right to sue other Americans.

Note how he was talking about the verdict on a radio show. He is playing politician.

He also has a fight with another famous ambulance chasing lawyer around here named Mike Morse, and is currently suing him on behalf of a skeezy woman who claims Morse sexually harassed him, a fact that he has spent money to splatter all over the local newspapers.

Welcome to Detroit!
Fieger's comments can't be taken seriously. When he ran against (and lost to John Engler) for the governor of Michigan he referred to his opponent as being born as a result of miscegenation between humans and barnyard animals . He said that unless Engler's kids had corkscrew tails they were not his kids.
Further he referred to Jesus Christ as being... some goofball that got nailed to the cross.
 
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Siggy

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I was specifically referring to the difference in the parties on tort reform only, and not every other issue in existence. I was also not implying that there is any political party that's correct on every issue. But you're right, that there are no good white supremacists and that there is no one worse than nazi's and neo-nazi's. They are the worst and everyone knows that.

Why are you minimizing the awful state of frivolous lawsuits, it's effect on all of us and the dire need for medical malpractice liability reform?
Because if you're going to throw one entire group under the bus and get into bed with the other side, you should take a look under the covers first. Sure, you can be a single issue voter, but you are also the company you keep.
 

Birdstrike

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Because if you're going to throw one entire group under the bus and get into bed with the other side, you should take a look under the covers first. Sure, you can be a single issue voter, but you are also the company you keep.
My personal opinion, is that all the parties are corrupt, to one extent or the other. I've never known any political party to put out a platform that's right on everything. They lie to get elected, then change much of what they stand for, once in power. Then, many are on the take in some form, to maintain power. And with tens of millions of voters on each side, there's always some number of good people, some number of terrible people and a whole lot of reasonable people in the middle, voting for each and every party. So to me, it's a matter of choosing your poison. I personally couldn't care less who you or anyone else votes for. Choose your poison. Choose what politician you think is best for yourself, and your family. What or who that is for you, may or may not be the same, for me and my family.

And if it makes you feel better to frame it in your mind, that you're safe with nothing but angels wearing white hats on one side, and its nothing but pure evil wearing black hats on the other, then so be it. But if you pay attention, long enough and you vote in enough elections, you'll find that most politicians are corrupt to one extent or the other. Sadly, it's just the nature of our system and politics, in general. And all of this, applies to all of the parties. But the good news is, it's not as bad as it is in most other places. And at least we have a chance to throw them out on their butts every few years, if needed.

That's just my humble opinion. Take it or leave. It's worth what you're paying for it.
 

namethatsmell

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No, you don't live here, so let me explain

Michigan has pretty decent tort reform, mainly limits on non-economic damages. That is what Fieger is talking about. He hates it, for obvious reasons
Perhaps my sarcasm didn't come across well typed out. Trust me, I get it.

You're right thought, I don't live in D-Town and hearing the backstory on this clown is amusing.
 

gutonc

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VA Hopeful Dr

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So we should have allied with hitler against Stalin?

Gotta pick one that's worse. Who do you ally with? Nationalist/fascists or communists?
In WW2 we had to choose, not the case these days
 
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