40 Years Old: Am I Wasting My Time Even Considering This? How Do I Maximize My Success?

[SomewhatDamaged]

Hello,

I'm 40 years old. I'm a science teacher. I regret every day, multiple times per day, that I am not in the medical field.

Quick background info:

I have bi-polar, discovered in the middle of university. It was pretty severe and impacted my marks. I would have grades that swung from 95% and above to 60s and 70s. It was a rough time, and just when I started to get it all sorted out, I was struck with damage to one of my kidneys. I had to drop out of school and spend 2 years getting tested, having surgeries, and (thankfully) recovering.

After this messy period of my life I met with an academic advisor and told them about my situation and how I was interested in pursuing medicine (especially with my recent front-line experience dealing with mental and renal issues). He laughed at me. No exaggeration, he just laughed at me and said "no chance."

I believed him. Living in Canada I know it was very hard to get into medical school. I had assumed, based on his opinion, that I just missed my opportunity and/or wasn't smart enough - or if I did have the chops to do the school work, nobody would hire someone with bi-polar disorder. It made sense in my mind.

I ended up going into teaching. I figured, "if I can't do it, maybe I can help others do it." I have tried to live up to this every day I walk into my classroom.

Still, I also regret every day that I'm not doing what I feel so passionately about. I'm also struggling with the notion that I'm 40, I will likely have $250k debt if I got in and finished (at nearly 50!), and my university marks are probably far below what is normally considered acceptable these days.

I come home and I am quite miserable. I am finally at a point where I can feasibly make this work but I wonder if I have a) missed my chance or, b) am going to get laughed out of any interview, c) be rejected because of mental health issues, d) am idealizing the profession (I don't think I am - I truly want to help people - more significantly than I hope I am now), e) just plain out of time.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Just looking for input from those in the know.

I appreciate your time, thanks in advance.

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[Skiiiiiing]

If your GPA is substantially below 3.0, then it is a very, very hard road in the states. Not impossible, but its a 2nd bachelors, 95th percentile on the MCAT, and stellar ECs.

From what I understand Canada is more selective generally, but perhaps a Canadian can chime in on lower GPA experiences.

 

[Goro]

Hello,

I'm 40 years old. I'm a science teacher. I regret every day, multiple times per day, that I am not in the medical field.

Quick background info:

I have bi-polar, discovered in the middle of university. It was pretty severe and impacted my marks. I would have grades that swung from 95% and above to 60s and 70s. It was a rough time, and just when I started to get it all sorted out, I was struck with damage to one of my kidneys. I had to drop out of school and spend 2 years getting tested, having surgeries, and (thankfully) recovering.

After this messy period of my life I met with an academic advisor and told them about my situation and how I was interested in pursuing medicine (especially with my recent front-line experience dealing with mental and renal issues). He laughed at me. No exaggeration, he just laughed at me and said "no chance."

I believed him. Living in Canada I know it was very hard to get into medical school. I had assumed, based on his opinion, that I just missed my opportunity and/or wasn't smart enough - or if I did have the chops to do the school work, nobody would hire someone with bi-polar disorder. It made sense in my mind.

I ended up going into teaching. I figured, "if I can't do it, maybe I can help others do it." I have tried to live up to this every day I walk into my classroom.

Still, I also regret every day that I'm not doing what I feel so passionately about. I'm also struggling with the notion that I'm 40, I will likely have $250k debt if I got in and finished (at nearly 50!), and my university marks are probably far below what is normally considered acceptable these days.

I come home and I am quite miserable. I am finally at a point where I can feasibly make this work but I wonder if I have a) missed my chance or, b) am going to get laughed out of any interview, c) be rejected because of mental health issues, d) am idealizing the profession (I don't think I am - I truly want to help people - more significantly than I hope I am now), e) just plain out of time.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Just looking for input from those in the know.

I appreciate your time, thanks in advance.

Not being happy with your current job is a really bad reason to go into Medicine.

I'm trying to say this in the nicest possible way, but med school is not the Make-A-Wish Foundation. it's time to move on.

 

[aformerstudent]

If you are bi-polar, don't you think you would be doing your future patients a disservice?

 

[marmalade_md236]

Being bipolar is NOT doing your future patients a disservice, as aformerstudent indicated. I know several Physician’s that undergo treatment for mental health, and they are phenomenal Physicians.

However, going the route of becoming a physician may not be worth it at your life stage, and I mean that sincerely.

If you are interested in medicine, I would consider an alternate route. Perhaps as a PA if you are interested in working as a provider, or RN if you just want to work with patients. There are tons of options other than becoming a physician that may apply more in your situation, and require less of a commitment.

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[el_duderino]

Echoing the above, I think that ship has sailed for you. I'm sorry.

 

[SomewhatDamaged]

Not being happy with your current job is a really bad reason to go into Medicine.

I'm trying to say this in the nicest possible way, but med school is not the Make-A-Wish Foundation. it's time to move on.

I didn't say I was unhappy with my current job. I'm good at what I do and I enjoy helping kids reach their potential. What I'm unhappy about is the fact that I feel I was thrown a raw deal (yeah, yeah, that's life) and missed out on an opportunity to help people in a different way - a way I know I would excel at.

I'm not looking for a Make-A-Wish Foundation solution, either. I know it's hard, I know it's an uphill battle. I'm not minimizing the effort it would take and I'm not looking for a magic wand to be waved so I can have a special wish granted. I feel I have something to offer, I could do the work, I'd be good at it, and it fascinates me.

 

[el_duderino]

I didn't say I was unhappy with my current job. I'm good at what I do and I enjoy helping kids reach their potential.

I'm not looking for a Make-A-Wish Foundation solution, either. I know it's hard, I know it's an uphill battle. I'm not minimizing the effort it would take and I'm not looking for a magic wand to be waved so I can have a special wish granted. I feel I have something to offer, I could do the work, I'd be good at it, and it fascinates me.

I think you'd be looking at redoing your entire undergraduate degree.

PA might be a reasonable alternative for you, as mentioned.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

I didn't say I was unhappy with my current job. I'm good at what I do and I enjoy helping kids reach their potential. What I'm unhappy about is the fact that I feel I was thrown a raw deal (yeah, yeah, that's life) and missed out on an opportunity to help people in a different way - a way I know I would excel at.

I'm not looking for a Make-A-Wish Foundation solution, either. I know it's hard, I know it's an uphill battle. I'm not minimizing the effort it would take and I'm not looking for a magic wand to be waved so I can have a special wish granted. I feel I have something to offer, I could do the work, I'd be good at it, and it fascinates me.

This is pleasure-principle thinking.

Which is fine.

Except when it conflicts with reality.

Sub 3.0 to MD conflicts with reality.

 

[el_duderino]

Sub 3.0 to MD conflicts with reality.

It.... has been known to happen.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

It.... has been known to happen.

K lets quibble about outliers rather than just achieve our objective: discouraging someone who is pursuing what is clearly the wrong road for what is clearly the wrong reason.

 

[el_duderino]

K lets quibble about outliers rather than just achieve our objective: discouraging someone who is pursuing what is clearly the wrong road for what is clearly the wrong reason.

I was being cheeky, because I'm one of them. I was a long shot candidate who got lucky, but even I was in a far better situation than OP.

 

[SomewhatDamaged]

K lets quibble about outliers rather than just achieve our objective: discouraging someone who is pursuing what is clearly the wrong road for what is clearly the wrong reason.

Perhaps it's the wrong road for various reasons whether they be age, financial, etc. but why do you think it's "clearly" the wrong reason that I'm pursuing this? I'm not interested in medicine for money, fame, prestige, ego or anything like of the sort. I'm giving this serious consideration because I want to help people and I feel bad that I'm not helping in a greater capacity - a capacity I feel I'm capable of.

Also, I have a GPA above 3.0. I had some less than stellar marks but most of my grades were over 90.

 

[deleted103644]

You haven’t really explained why you want to go into medicine.

There is a good chance that you would not get into any US MD or even DO schools.

After that, depending on your mental health you might hit a roadblock during school or residency that derails your career.

And finally, medicine is a really long slog. You have at least a year of volunteering, getting CV together, and applying before you would even start. And then it’s a bare minimum of 7 years of school + residency.

You’re facing an uphill battle and it doesn’t make a lot of financial or lifestyle sense, so you really need a good reason for why you want to do it. Both for your own career planning and to answer that inevitable question on interviews.

I would recommend the mid level provider route - much less barrier to entry and much shorter training period. Probably PA, especially if you’re interested in procedures, but NP would be an option too.

You really need a solid reason why you want to do this and really know what you’re getting into...

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Perhaps it's the wrong road for various reasons whether they be age, financial, etc. but why do you think it's "clearly" the wrong reason that I'm pursuing this? I'm not interested in medicine for money, fame, prestige, ego or anything like of the sort. I'm giving this serious consideration because I want to help people and I feel bad that I'm not helping in a greater capacity - a capacity I feel I'm capable of.

Also, I have a GPA above 3.0. I had some less than stellar marks but most of my grades were over 90.

There's no point in arguing with pleasure-oriented thinking (e.g. I don't like my current job but feel I would like and excel at medicine medicine) when its completely in control of thought.

Reality -

1. Starting at 40 means finishing at 52-54.
2. Academic issues - apparently far from stellar, this process heavily weighs academic success. Median matriculant for MD is 3.75/3.6/510, DO isn't that much lower and they screen subjectives much more heavily.
3. Motivational issues - the biggest is that you don't like your current job, and this is a terrible reason to go into medicine...or to pretty much any other field.

 

[Wiggly Tuff Da Ruff]

There are people over 40 in medical schools. There are some who are even 50. If you want to pursue it, then go after it.
Keep in mind, though, that like Goro said above, medicine isn't somewhere that you "just end up". It takes hard work and dedication. That's why it's not a good idea to simply go into medicine when you're unhappy at your current job. Also, the process is super stressful. It's not like in TV shows where you foosh your white coat around and automatically know the diagnosis for everything and everyone cooperates. It's more like staring at multiple resources trying to figure out how you're going to remember everything before the test that's coming up. And then the one after that. And then the one after that.
Basically, if you want to be in medicine for the glorious science knowledge and the ability to change and save lives, 40 isn't too old. If you want to be in medicine because you created this image in your head of what a doctor is/does/gets to do, then don't do it.

 

[esob]

Without knowing what your actual undergraduate sGPA and cGPA is specifically, it is hard to make a reasoned argument whether or not your ship has sailed. GPA and MCAT are going to be the bulk determiners of your chance at med school.

 

[QofQuimica]

OP, have you gotten any clinical experience like shadowing, volunteering, or working in a health care setting? If not, then that's where you need to start. Go get your hands dirty and see if you like the actual practice of medicine (as opposed to your rosey-colored glasses ideal of it).

It's a bad idea for you to go to medical school for all the reasons that you and the others have already enumerated: you're older, you don't have a realistic view of the profession, you're running away from something else rather than to medicine, and you're a long shot candidate. You also run the risk of worsening your depression (not insignificant if your bipolar is not well controlled and/or you've required mental health hospitalizations in the past). You're going to run into SIGNIFICANT resistance every step of the way, with people questioning your motivation and your ability to hack 7+ years of medical training in middle age. So unless you're so dedicated to doing this that you're willing and able to ride roughshod over dozens of naysayers blocking your path, you should find some other way to feel like you're making a worthwhile contribution to society (which, I would argue, teaching definitely is a major way to contribute to society and not inferior to practicing medicine in any way).

 

[dushash]

I'm Canadian and I can tell you forget about Canada. It's not only too competitive, but it's also a lottery - there's simply not enough spots - no matter what GPA/MCAT you have. Exactly the reason I applied to US DO schools. I'm 40 and I'm MSII right now. We have couple students older than me (max I've seen is like almost 60yo). It's not that bad if you willing to accommodate and be flexible in your goals. For example I'll be 42 when I graduate and residency is a full time job already. At 45 I'll be attending and IMHO I can work up to 70 depending on health and specialty. That's like a 25 years of fulfilling work that you really love and enjoy. You can retake all prereqs in 2 years and you'll be in my shoes an MSII in 4-5 years max. So you'll have 20 years (instead of 25) to work and live a life you dreamed about helping people. Money wise you can still earn $3 mil and pay off loan, buy another house, pay kids for education (if you have family) and still have $1 mil at least left for your pension or travel. If you are US citizen - it's even easier due to numerous government loan options and loan forgiveness programs and what not (in my case I don't get any freebies as I'm not US citizen). IMHO you guys are spoiled lol.
Also, if your GPA is 3.0 and you can prep and pass MCAT at around 508+ (average at best) - I'm almost sure you'll get accepted somewhere if you apply early and broadly to DO schools. It's definately doable, but only you can do it. Find motivation, go shadow a DO/MD (you'll need their LORs anyway) and make up your mind one way or another

 

[Frosty808]

Hey there!

I'm chiming in a bit later since it's the end of October =) Happy Halloween by the way! I'm beginning my 30s so I'm still 10 years your junior. LIFE IS TOO DAMN SHORT. KEEP UP ON IT. IF YOU FEEL IT IN YOUR HEART, do it.. but do it STRATEGICALLY. PM me, I have great pre-med for nontrads support group you can join. Seems some of these comments are a bit negative. I feel that there is a way to be rude out of concern but then again, there is no room for negative energy.

Anyway, as I say... do it strategically. No point in lingering too much on age. You are older but it's not like you're planning on dying overnight. Figure out how you want to approach this:

1) Financially - will you be able to dedicate full time as a student or will you work full time while taking one class at a time?

2) Clinical Experience - do you have any? I highly recommend doing hospice because I've volunteered in hospitals/clinics and they make you do mostly busy work aka paperwork. My most meaningful ACTUAL PATIENT CARE EXPERIENCE has been through hospice. You are definitely going to have direct patient care with minimal paperwork. You will be assigned a family and the volunteer hours work around your schedule.

3) Shadow physicians - I highly recommend doing this until after you have solidified a schedule for classes/work/MCAT PREP. Personally, I will shadow physicians until after I take the MCAT. My schedule is too full...

**I work 3 jobs and I'm finishing up my 2nd master's (online--damn me for trying to settle for a plan B career, now I'm in unnecessary debt because of my lack of self confidence but I need to finish what I started), volunteer at hospice and Planned Parenthood, and also doing MCAT prep.**

4) FIND A SUPPORT GROUP - like I said you should PM me, you need a support group to vent to but also keep your head up when you feel low. We are all from different walks of life. Age shouldn't be discriminated against you. Many people are parents at older ages, doesn't make them less of a parent. Sometimes being older prepares you more financially, mentally, and emotionally. This type of maturity ONLY comes with age.

5) Passion - why medicine? Are you doing this for the right reasons? If you are--NOTHING should change your mind. Are willing to go through the emotional roller coasters of people who will discourage you and put you down?

I'm not that much older than someone who just graduated college but I'm also not well-seasoned in my career. After I graduated, I've been through so many research assistant contract jobs (San Francisco Bay Area---all you Bay Area peeps feel my pain?) that it was difficult for me to financially feel ready, let alone, mentally and emotionally able to dedicate time to studying for MCAT while working because ALL I DID WAS TRY TO FIND A JOB AGAIN before my contract would end. I should've stayed at home with family and did MCAT but I wanted to use my degree, be independent, and be out on my own. Now I'm older, I waivered in my end goal and here I am almost 30 and still trying to study for MCAT and starting over trying to recollect who to get letters of REC from... LOL.

But that's not stopping me. I want it and I'm dedicated. I can't be pushing paper all my life like this. I'm not even using my science degrees.. I moved back home and I'm an office assistant. The fact that you and I are not complacent is fuel for the passion , right? =)

 

[Robin-jay]

Hello OP.

No one here has the right to decide whether or not the OP has a passion for medicine or not. That's not for SDNers to decide. Whether or not the OP has articulated his passion for the SDN crowd to anyone's liking is unnecessary.

That being said, OP, the reality of your path is certainly a possible one. But a very, very, very difficult one.

Shadow physicians for 100+ hours. If you still want to be a physician, no one here has any right to judge your desire. However, do listen to how difficult that path would be.

3-6 years of GPA repair and MCAT studying.

*Be willing to not be accepted even at this point*

4 years of medical school.

4 years of residency (this is when you finally get your first 50k paycheck for 80 hours of work a week).

I do wish you the best OP.

 

[QofQuimica]

It's not a question of negative energy or someone else making a decision for the OP. It's a question of how bad the OP really wants to do this in spite of the formidable obstacles that will be in his way. I don't think he wants it badly enough. I think he likes to daydream of being a doctor, but he can't and won't do what's necessary to actually go through with it. His own (self-selected) user ID reeks of negativism and self-defeatism. He needs to understand that med school isn't a place to go to heal his "somewhat damaged" self, and residency isn't a bowl of chicken soup for the unfulfilled career soul. If me saying that makes him mad and strengthens his determination to prove me and all the other naysayers wrong, good on him. He'll need that bit of fire in his belly to get through the next decade of training assuming he can convince an adcom to give him the chance. Conversely, if in the more likely scenario that a few anonymous posts on a website are enough to talk him out of making a six figure mistake out of a midlife crisis, hey, good on him in that case, too. Either way, he gets what he truly needs from this site.