50 Best Jobs in America: Psych #10, Prof #2

[Therapist4Chnge]

50 Best Jobs in America

Psychologists came in at #10, and professors were #2. This is an article from last year from Money Magazine (I originally read it back then). I came across this again while posting over at another board, so I thought I'd post it over here.

I think the avg salary is a bit low, though I admittedly am use to east coast/metropolitan salaries, so that may be my own bias.

-t

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[blindblonde]

I love this bit for the psychologist description:

WHAT'S COOL Shrinks are four times as likely to be self-employed as other professionals.
WHAT'S NOT Years of training; stiff competition for slots in graduate programs; insurers.

I think anyone here can say, "Well, DUH!" to this.

 

[blindblonde]

Oh, by the way, that was an interesting list...I forgot to mention that after chuckling about reading the psych description.

 

[positivepsych]

I posted this link last year. The salaries seem pretty accurate for 2006 from what I've seen, even for the coasts. You have to take into account the future trajectory of the profession though....

Pharmacists (#9) are now starting at over $100k for 36-40 hour a week jobs + 10k signing bonuses, for 4 years of graduate education. Their earning potential will only increase in the coming years because of the shortage of pharmacists. They are smart because Pharmacy Assistants can only work under them, unlike the MSWs, LCSWs, MFTs, and MCs that are not only practicing independently, but are 5x more prevalent than psychologists nowadays. There will never be a shortage in psychology as a result, and salaries will not rise compared to our health care doctoral counterparts. Pure supply and demand. I don't expect to make as much as an physicians for all that they went through, but I believe that clinical psychologists should make as much as pharmacists and dentists (too bad that's nowhere near the reality).

I agree that being a professor is a great job, but its one of those things that's only starts being great in all respects when you get tenure.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Pharmacy is a great area, but I've been told by some friends that the bonuses aren't as great anymore since the larger pharmacies have been merging. You can still do quite well and only work 30 something hours a week, but it isn't quite as lucrative as it was before (still $100k+ ).

-t

 

[Ollie123]

Have some friends in pharmacy, and it is still a VERY lucrative field.

If you're really looking for some seriously bizarre schooling v salary discrepencies though, look into CRNA (Certified Registered Nurse of Anesthetics).

4 year RN degree, 2-3 years of grad school to get the CRNA. Depending on where you are, you can start anywhere from 120 on up to 200. Don't know exactly what the hours are like - I assume they aren't great as you generally don't work a 40 hour week in any medical profession. Still, the one person I know going for it says she will be earning "about" what a lot of docs are earning these days with 1/3 the training (and the training is generally not AS intense), less liability, and while she isn't expecting a 9-5, she also isn't going to be working the kind of hours she'd end up working if she did go the med school route.

Personally, I'd hate the job, but I have to admit its probably one of the best "deals" education-wise these days.

I'm happy to see prof is up there though! Salary is unfortunately probably skewed high because psych faculty is generally paid less than many other departments (engineering, law, business). Hopefully I can finangle a way into the consulting or forensics biz though despite not attending a school that will provide a focus on either. That should "adjust" my salary a bit if I can pull it off

 

[PizzaButt]

Speaking of CRNA, another related field that's super lucrative is "anesthesia assistant." I believe I read they all start at 100K and it's only two years!!!!! I actually am thinking about applying for this program. It's a master's degree. You need some (I'm not sure if all) of the pre-med requirements plus the MCAT I believe. I think there's only like 4 programs in the US, as it's a new field. But for just two years to start at 100K!

 

[PizzaButt]

In the article you linked to in the first post, it says that clinical and counseling psychologists can make $95,000. Is that after a number of years? That wouldn't be anywhere near the starting salary, right?

What are the most lucrative subspecialties of clinical psych? I've heard neuropsych and forensic psych--any idea what the salaries are for these? Are there any others?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Both of those positions are definitely $$. I know someone who is a CNRA and she makes BANK. The hours are a bit tough (I think she does regular 12 hour shifts, and then spot work), but I think the money more than makes up for it.

-t

 

[positivepsych]

CRNAs do make bank for the little years of schooling they get. However, I believe they need a few years of nursing work experience before they can get into graduate school, so I don't think many people walk into it after their BSNs, like undergrads go straight into med schools. Also, there are not that many CRNA programs, so competition can be stiff.

Starting salaries for clinical/counseling psychologists are not $95K, more like 40-70k, depending on the area of the country and the setting.

I wouldn't do any subspeciality for the money. Neuropsychology and forensics are so completely different than doing psychotherapy that you'd really have to be okay with doing that kind of work. Most people go into psychology because they want something they enjoy and that's meaningful and helps people, so if you're giving that up, you're probably not going to be that happy with it. That being said, some people love those specialties, but I think it takes a certain type of person.

It's a fine line to balance doing something you enjoy and trying to make a good living. But I figure its easier to make money at something you enjoy, rather than try to enjoy something that you make money at. That's just my 2 cents.

 

[PizzaButt]

So if starting salaries for general clinical psychologists are 40-70K, at what point do they increase?

My concern is that the number of years required to get the doctorate isn't worth the low starting salaries. I love psychology and find it absolutely fascinating, but since I'm married and will be starting a family soon, I want to make sure the end result (salary) is worth the large time committment. That's something I'm still pondering. Any thoughts about that?

 

[Ollie123]

If the money is a big concern, this may not be the right field for you. You can earn a lot more much sooner with other degrees.

If you go into academics, salaries GENERALLY go up pretty slowly and it requires a LOT of work to get ahead. Though you can find consulting stuff on the side, that means working additional hours which might not mesh as well with starting a family (though again, its certainly doable if you so choose).

I would not expect to be making 6 figures until your mid 50's to 60's (if ever) if you go into academics. And that's assuming you work your butt off. I think if you specialize in neuro or forensics you can get to that salary much sooner, but I don't know enough to comment on those things.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

*I hate technology!!!! I had a nice well thought out response to you pizza....but instead the computer decided to 'toss the SDN cookies', and it lost everything i typed. See what happens when I use some random computer! *

So...to do a quick summary of what I wrote.

Starting salaries aren't great. You can supplement your income by starting a private practice, doing assessments, and/or moving into other consulting areas. Clinicians tend to diversify.....so maybe work at a CMH, moonlight doing assessments at a hospital, and maybe see a few people on the side for individual work.

The income drop (from where you would be coming from) is going to suck. You can get back to it, but you'll need to work for it, and/or specialize. I know the feeling...but I decided I can always go back to my old career, but I couldn't always go back to grad school. I love what I can do and will be able to do, and my old career just couldn't meet those needs.

-t

 

[RayneeDeigh]

So if starting salaries for general clinical psychologists are 40-70K, at what point do they increase?

My concern is that the number of years required to get the doctorate isn't worth the low starting salaries. I love psychology and find it absolutely fascinating, but since I'm married and will be starting a family soon, I want to make sure the end result (salary) is worth the large time committment. That's something I'm still pondering. Any thoughts about that?

My take on it is that if you consider the end result to be salary, you'll probably get burned out in a few years when you realize you're not making what you want to make. But if you focus on the end result as being a trained person who can contribute to the field, you'll likely care less about the difference between $60,000 and $90,000.

 

[PizzaButt]

I definitely do not want to teach....but research and private practice interest me instead. I have informational interviewed with a bunch of clinical psychologists and I asked them whether or not they would recommend this path and 1/2 said yes and 1/2 said no. That worries me, as a career changer. The biggest issue they all had was salary. Many of them did two or three part-time jobs and many of them job-hopped a lot before ending up in private practice.

The salary issue still concerns me though. I did speak with a neuropsych who basically told me she makes 6 figures, and she is young. Why is neuropsych so different salary-wise?

 

[RayneeDeigh]

I definitely do not want to teach....but research and private practice interest me instead. I have informational interviewed with a bunch of clinical psychologists and I asked them whether or not they would recommend this path and 1/2 said yes and 1/2 said no. That worries me, as a career changer. The biggest issue they all had was salary. Many of them did two or three part-time jobs and many of them job-hopped a lot before ending up in private practice.

The salary issue still concerns me though. I did speak with a neuropsych who basically told me she makes 6 figures, and she is young. Why is neuropsych so different salary-wise?

The psychologists I know all love their jobs. It's not a poverty-line salary by any means. You won't be poor, you just won't be able to jet off to Europe and have three pools in your backyard.

And as for neuropsych, this is just my opinion (isn't it always, haha)... but I think they get paid a lot more because what they're doing is "harder". There's such a huge amount of knowledge required and it's in more of a "medical" area. There are a lot fewer people studying neuropsych than say, something like family therapy. Fewer people = higher demand = bigger salaries.

 

[NeuroPsyStudent]

Well, certainly there are some neuropsych's who make the bucks, but honestly, they deserve it! They work incredible hours and write massive reports. It is extremely exhausting work. But also consider that some of the best neuropsychs are making 70's. The other thing is saturation...everyone is doing neuropsych these days.

I personally love my specialty area so I am willing to enter a difficult career field. But clinical neuropsych is not an "easy" way to make the bucks. The training, alone, is lengthy and difficult.

 

[PizzaButt]

Is neuro psych a subset of "health psychology"? Meaning, if I want to go into neuropsych would I want to find a program that offers health psychology--or just find a program that offers neuropsych? I have that Insider's Guide and am looking at it.

 

[paramour]

*I hate technology!!!! I had a nice well thought out response to you pizza....but instead the computer decided to 'toss the SDN cookies', and it lost everything i typed. See what happens when I use some random computer! *

Hmmm . . . I seem to recall a wise person once telling me to save your text in a word processing document to prevent loss of lengthy posts.

 

[LadyInRed]

Well now I'm curious. I didn't realize there was much of a salary discrepency between neuropsychologists and other specialties of clinical psych. Can anyone ballpark figures for the average starting salary and the salary 10 years after post-doc for neuropsychologists who work in academic medical centers (so a combination of research and assessments I would expect)?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Neuropsychology is predominantly assessment and, to do it correctly, it requires a neuro focus in grad school, internship, and a two year postdoc.

Pretty much. I always joke you can pick out the therapists and the neuropsychologists out at a conference.....because the therapists are at the bar living it up, and the neuropsychs are in the corner looking uncomfortable having to talk to people.

I kid....I kid.



All kidding aside....neuropsychs seem to know that is what they want early on. It is a really interesting field, and because of the training involved, you pretty much need to know going into grad school because you need to line everything up to get the right internship, post-doc, etc.

Hmmm . . . I seem to recall a wise person once telling me to save your text in a word processing document to prevent loss of lengthy posts.

If only i took my own advice! I was thrown off...using another computer and all. it was sorta like driving a rental car, never quite at home in it.

Nuero isn't a sub-specialty of health psych (from my understanding), but instead it's own specialty area.

As for nuero salaries....no idea, though I know some established ones who make 6-figures.

-t

 

[Psyduck]

I always joke you can pick out the therapists and the neuropsychologists out at a conference.....because the therapists are at the bar living it up, and the neuropsychs are in the corner looking uncomfortable having to talk to people.

I kid....I kid.



-t

Hey, I know you're kidding about this but I'm wondering where this sentiment comes from. I've heard before people making comments that those of us interested in neuro, or even those of us more research focused than psychotherapy focused, are all sociophobes who wanted to work quietly in a secluded room and not have contact with other people. Research and practice certainly require diff skills, and maybe a really extroverted person would prefer therapy (altho I think an introverted person may actually have better skills at listening to and understanding the patient), but I don't think there is anything "weird" about us as others have said.

 

[Psyduck]

it's exciting that neuro is so hot right now. there are articles about the brain in lay magazines and newspapers just about every week. but i sure hope the salary doesn't start leveling out just as i get into it!

 

[psychwanabe]

The psychologists I know all love their jobs. It's not a poverty-line salary by any means. You won't be poor, you just won't be able to jet off to Europe and have three pools in your backyard.

Shoot! I was counting on adding that third pool in after grad school...

Seriously, isn't this all about doing what you love? How insane is it to be stressing about the fact that we'll be making ~50k to start? I have never been in this for the money: in fact, it was my husband who started looking up salaries when I enrolled in undergrad and informed him of my grandiose plans. My reaction? Oh, yeah - and I guess I'll get paid for it too!! It's all about the work, baby!

 

[OBRules]

CRNA's are required a BSN, and several years of critical care experience before entering the programs for a master's degree. Give them a little credit.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Hey, I know you're kidding about this but I'm wondering where this sentiment comes from. I've heard before people making comments that those of us interested in neuro, or even those of us more research focused than psychotherapy focused, are all sociophobes who wanted to work quietly in a secluded room and not have contact with other people. Research and practice certainly require diff skills, and maybe a really extroverted person would prefer therapy (altho I think an introverted person may actually have better skills at listening to and understanding the patient), but I don't think there is anything "weird" about us as others have said.

It is definitely tongue in cheek, but there are some neuro who would prefer not to interact as much. I know a few neuros who are really outgoing and love working with people, but also love assessment.

I am more on the clinical side, but am an introvert...go figure.

-t

 

[Psyduck]

nothing wrong with wanting to do what you love and making a ton of money off of it! but yeah i definitely value being a psychologist over the money or i'd be on the neurologist route right now!

 

[Ollie123]

Wasn't implying that CRNA's don't deserve credit, they certainly do. Its by no means an easy field to go into, and not one I would ever do myself.

I'm just saying that compared to many other fields, the training vs. salary ratio is very positive. The vast majority of people going into clinical psych need at least a few years post Bachelor's to get into a program, which is then another 5-6 years of training (and maybe another 1-2 years of post-doc), to make around 1/2 to 1/3 what a CRNA makes.

That isn't to say they don't deserve it, we were just discussing the amount of training vs. salary. I don't think its possible to argue that CRNA's don't do exceptionally well for the amount of schooling they have. All I'm saying is that its a great deal for people that want a good salary and are interested in that field

 

[Psyduck]

It is definitely tongue in cheek, but there are some neuro who would prefer not to interact as much. I know a few neuros who are really outgoing and love working with people, but also love assessment.

I am more on the clinical side, but am an introvert...go figure.

-t

well sure there would of course be a mix of both in every field/specialization. i am just wondering how antisociality got specifically attached to research/neuropsych. and you're not the only one i've heard this from. but i definitely know i've been seeing a lot of research jobs emphasizing "team effort" which you probably need more in rsrch than therapy which is one on one. but true i guess for assessment that could involve a lot of office time.