"50% of Applicants get into Med School": Deflated?

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indya

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I know of a lot of pre meds out there who stand absolutely no chance of getting into med school (<3.0 gpa, no ec's, Party every night, etc). What would ypu say the acceptance rate is for students who take college seriously is?

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60% of applicants will have to reapply

in my opinion, most people who go through the application process are taking themselves somewhat seriously, whatever it may mean to them.

the kids that are failing usually change their career goals or get straightened out when you aren't looking
 
I recall a statistic of 37% for people applying. I'm not sure if that's just MD schools or it includes DO.

You'll quickly find that partiers with <3.0 won't stick with the whole "pre-med" thing. It's a cool thing to say freshmen year, but then reality hits that they actually have to do a little work. Most give up by sophomore or junior year.

The people applying to medical school are already the cream of the crop. And since there are limited slots and everyone has about the same qualifications, it's a huge crapshoot. So you could have a 3.8, a 35 MCAT, and excellent ECs and not get in anywhere just by chance.
 
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You don't have to take college seriously to get above 3.5. As long as you care just a little. You can have fun.

As for your question it really doesn't matter. Those who give up on premed are replaced by those who weren't premed and have good grades.
 
i know of a lot of pre meds out there who stand absolutely no chance of getting into med school (<3.0 gpa, no ec's, party every night, etc). what would ypu say the acceptance rate is for students who take college seriously is?

37.58%...
 
What other people have said. At my uni, only something like 10% of the freshman that declare as premed eventually actually apply to med school. All the dropping isn't because of poor performance, but some of it certainly is.
 
I could see what the OP means-- look at that chart and look how many people still apply with abysmal stats.. Of course the number isnt THAT deflated but it is to some extent
 
I know of a lot of pre meds out there who stand absolutely no chance of getting into med school (<3.0 gpa, no ec's, Party every night, etc). What would ypu say the acceptance rate is for students who take college seriously is?

Wrong direction.

50% accepted would be INFLATED, not deflated.

That is, 60% are rejected. Only 40% are accepted. Since generally around 50-90% of premed freshmen at most schools will drop the "premed" title by jr yr, I'd guess the vast majority of those applying took school "seriously." This is corroborated by the mean GPA and MCAT scores (3.4 and 28 respectively) of applicants, which are both FAR above the average for college students or the overall test-taking population.
 
60% of applicants will have to reapply

in my opinion, most people who go through the application process are taking themselves somewhat seriously, whatever it may mean to them.

the kids that are failing usually change their career goals or get straightened out when you aren't looking

Agreed. Most people who are at the stage where they will be counted in the statistics have made a serious effort.
 
I recall a statistic of 37% for people applying. I'm not sure if that's just MD schools or it includes DO.

You'll quickly find that partiers with <3.0 won't stick with the whole "pre-med" thing. It's a cool thing to say freshmen year, but then reality hits that they actually have to do a little work. Most give up by sophomore or junior year.

The people applying to medical school are already the cream of the crop. And since there are limited slots and everyone has about the same qualifications, it's a huge crapshoot. So you could have a 3.8, a 35 MCAT, and excellent ECs and not get in anywhere just by chance.

No, I strongly disagree with this. It is often said that medicine is a "crapshoot" or that there's no rhyme or reason to why some "good" applicants get rejected. This is not true.

Things to consider:
  • The student may have not applied BROADLY. This is a common reason for applicants with a 3.8, 35 (who think they're guaranteed one of the tops) to not get accepted anywhere.
  • They applied late.
  • They're terrible at interviewing
  • There is some other glaring difficiency in their application

This process is NOT a crapshoot. High GPA and MCAT scores guarantee you nothing. What a great EC entails is often misinterpreted. Personal interviewing is very important at many schools. The Adcoms don't just toss up their hands and randomly pick from applications. There is a process of weeding out the poor applications from the good ones, and simply having high scores does not make you a good application...it gets you closer to being a good application, but you are hardly finished. Also keep in mind that Harvard's "Good" application is different from Podunk's "Good" application.

Can't stand the constant suggestion here that it's mostly luck and random. Preparation preparation preparation.
 
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No, I strongly disagree with this. It is often said that medicine is a "crapshoot" or that there's no rhyme or reason to why some "good" applicants get rejected. This is not true.

Things to consider:
  • The student may have not applied BROADLY. This is a common reason for applicants with a 3.8, 35 (who think they're guaranteed one of the tops) to not get accepted anywhere.
  • They applied late.
  • They're terrible at interviewing
  • There is some other glaring deficiency in their application

This process is NOT a crapshoot. High GPA and MCAT scores guarantee you nothing. What a great EC entails is often misinterpreted. Personal interviewing is very important at many schools. The Adcoms don't just toss up their hands and randomly pick from applications. There is a process of weeding out the poor applications from the good ones, and simply having high scores does not make you a good application...it gets you closer to being a good application, but you are hardly finished. Also keep in mind that Harvard's "Good" application is different from Podunk's "Good" application.

Can't stand the constant suggestion here that it's mostly luck and random. Preparation preparation preparation.

Pride and sloth are the two killers of good applicants.
 
Yeah the process isn't random, med schools know exactly what they want, it's just premeds who don't.
 
I know of a lot of pre meds out there who stand absolutely no chance of getting into med school (<3.0 gpa, no ec's, Party every night, etc). What would ypu say the acceptance rate is for students who take college seriously is?

I got rejected from every school I applied to in the 2007-2008 cycle. Looking at my stats (see MDApps), I'd hardly think you'd say I didn't take college seriously.
 
No, I strongly disagree with this. It is often said that medicine is a "crapshoot" or that there's no rhyme or reason to why some "good" applicants get rejected. This is not true.
...
(many good observations deleted for brevity)
...
Can't stand the constant suggestion here that it's mostly luck and random. Preparation preparation preparation.

I'd just add that many applicants don't necessarily understand all of the things that go into building that killer resume until it's too late. MCAT and GPA are first screens, of course, but shadowing, research, community service, and so on also have their place. And if you haven't figured out that you need those experiences until you start filling out the AMCAS in June, it's far too late.

And some things are counter-intuitive - you'd *think* that taking a Bio-Chem double major would be a great prep for med school - and it is. But it may be a terrible choice for "med school admission" if the workload causes your GPA to crater, or doesn't leave you enough time to collect clinical and other experiences.

Students whose experiences are reflective of the above aren't necessarily students who "didn't take college seriously", but poor advising, or just a late-blooming interest in med school may have left them under-prepared at application-time.

By far the most successful applicant I know in this last round took a relatively easy degree in a foreign language, plus the minimal required "pre-med" courses, (most of which were skipped due to granted AP credit) leaving plenty of time for volunteer activities during the year, then spent every summer doing clinical work, (arranged by her parents) and started preparing for the MCAT as a freshman. Having nailed the MCAT and GPA, she got her AMCAS done very early, and was interviewed / offered admission at almost every (Top 25) school she applied to. As the daughter of not one, but two doctors, I think she had her plan pretty well mapped out. And she was *never* really a "pre-med" or at least, not your "classical pre-med."
 
I got rejected from every school I applied to in the 2007-2008 cycle. Looking at my stats (see MDApps), I'd hardly think you'd say I didn't take college seriously.

On a quick glance, your MDApps looks pretty good...
Where did you apply?

Anyway, here are my thoughts.

Undergraduate College: University of Colorado at Colorado Springs


Is this a satellite of UC-Boulder? I'd guess some might wonder what a 4.0 from here actually means.


Also, if you are from Colorado you are at a distinct disadvantage due to CO's state school being so difficult to get into. Students from CO tend to be rejected at a rate even higher than CA (about 65-70% IIRC).



Undergraduate Area of Study: Biological/Life Sciences
Being just another bio major doesn't help, unfortunately

MCAT: BS 13, PS 12, VR 11, R
Nice MCAT score!

Overall GPA: 3.98
Science GPA: 4.00
GPA is awesome

Brief Profile:
Minor in history, major in biology.
Volunteered in Peds Playroom of Hospital for 1 year

Premed society 3 years (inc. 1 year as shadowing coordinator and mentor)
Worked in Pediatrician's office for just over a year doing filing and insurance work.
Student Affiliates of American Chemical Society 2.5 years (including volunteering for various science programs for children)
President of national non-profit organization since Jan '09; staff since April '07, member since Sept '06.
RHA Representative, 2 years; Leadership award '08
Phlebotomy certification with externship experience.
Phlebotomist position at hospital since Jan '09.
No research experience.
No research may have hurt you some.

Much of my credits are AP/IB credits, so I graduated in 3 years (easily; I started with 46 credits). I have advanced classes in biology, but I only took the physics labs in university, not the lectures. As such, I am excluded from applying to some schools, including SLU, Rochester, Columbia, etc.
AMCAS submitted: 6/2/2009

Overall, I think you had a great app but it looks like your clinical experiences all started after the app yr in which you were rejected, right? It looks to me like you had some great stuff going for you for this last cycle but not so much for the previous one.
 
I got rejected from every school I applied to in the 2007-2008 cycle. Looking at my stats (see MDApps), I'd hardly think you'd say I didn't take college seriously.

That poster was not saying that all applicants who are rejected do too much partying and do not take things seriously. He or she was wondering the following: If students that do too much partying are not included in the statistics, what do the numbers look like then?
 
On a quick glance, your MDApps looks pretty good...
Where did you apply?

You can see from my MDApps where I applied. I have both application cycles listed there.

Is this a satellite of UC-Boulder? I'd guess some might wonder what a 4.0 from here actually means.

No, we are not affiliated with UC-Boulder. We are a completely different school with a completely different administration, just under the University of Colorado system. It's like UC-Irvine vs. UCLA. We also have another campus in Denver, which is what the medical school is affiliated with.

I'm perfectly aware why I did not get in, which is why I spent a year getting my application together before I applied again. And it worked, because I got two acceptances this year. Might've gotten more had I cared enough to try to get more (LOIs and whatnot), but I was perfectly happy with my first acceptance, so I didn't really bother after that.

I was just illustrating that even people with stellar grades and MCAT scores will still get rejected. It's not like the people who are rejected are the ones who don't take college seriously. Other people have posted to say basically the same thing (that people who apply usually are the ones that take being a pre-med seriously), but statistics make a little more impact when you can relate them to a specific person.
 
I know of a lot of pre meds out there who stand absolutely no chance of getting into med school (<3.0 gpa, no ec's, Party every night, etc). What would ypu say the acceptance rate is for students who take college seriously is?
20-30%

Most of those party pre-meds never get to the point of submitting their AMCAS, and most of them don't even get to the MCAT.
 
20-30%

Most of those party pre-meds never get to the point of submitting their AMCAS, and most of them don't even get to the MCAT.

20-30% of people who take college seriously will get in? Umm.. I think I'm going to switch to pre-podiatry. :laugh:
 
shoot. I thought I was on to something. thanks for all the replies.
 
No, I strongly disagree with this. It is often said that medicine is a "crapshoot" or that there's no rhyme or reason to why some "good" applicants get rejected. This is not true.

Things to consider:
  • The student may have not applied BROADLY. This is a common reason for applicants with a 3.8, 35 (who think they're guaranteed one of the tops) to not get accepted anywhere.
  • They applied late.
  • They're terrible at interviewing
  • There is some other glaring difficiency in their application

This process is NOT a crapshoot. High GPA and MCAT scores guarantee you nothing. What a great EC entails is often misinterpreted. Personal interviewing is very important at many schools. The Adcoms don't just toss up their hands and randomly pick from applications. There is a process of weeding out the poor applications from the good ones, and simply having high scores does not make you a good application...it gets you closer to being a good application, but you are hardly finished. Also keep in mind that Harvard's "Good" application is different from Podunk's "Good" application.

Can't stand the constant suggestion here that it's mostly luck and random. Preparation preparation preparation.

This post nails it. Not a crapshoot. Not random. And the interview is very important, where many "socially marginal" applicants who otherwise look good on paper get nixed.
 
This post nails it. Not a crapshoot. Not random. And the interview is very important, where many "socially marginal" applicants who otherwise look good on paper get nixed.

I also agree that "socially marginal" applicants get nixed. But I don't think that explains the whole story. I think both sides are over-simplifying.

You can improve your chances by a great deal by interviewing well and all that jazz - but chance is a major factor because there are so many more (exceptional) applicants than seats.

That's why so many unsuccessful applicants still get waitlist spots. The qualifications were judged to be adequate, there just weren't enough seats. These people try a few more times and eventually they get in.
 
You can see from my MDApps where I applied. I have both application cycles listed there.



No, we are not affiliated with UC-Boulder. We are a completely different school with a completely different administration, just under the University of Colorado system. It's like UC-Irvine vs. UCLA. We also have another campus in Denver, which is what the medical school is affiliated with.

I'm perfectly aware why I did not get in, which is why I spent a year getting my application together before I applied again. And it worked, because I got two acceptances this year. Might've gotten more had I cared enough to try to get more (LOIs and whatnot), but I was perfectly happy with my first acceptance, so I didn't really bother after that.

I was just illustrating that even people with stellar grades and MCAT scores will still get rejected. It's not like the people who are rejected are the ones who don't take college seriously. Other people have posted to say basically the same thing (that people who apply usually are the ones that take being a pre-med seriously), but statistics make a little more impact when you can relate them to a specific person.

Applying to more schools, and to a broader range, might have increased your chances of getting into the class of 2013. But it doesn't matter because you got in eventually.
 
Can't stand the constant suggestion here that it's mostly luck and random. Preparation preparation preparation.


Well, from my experiences, getting an interview offer is sometimes completely luck and random. Especially since I've been rejected by schools which I interviewed at a previously year (even after I've improved entire application, including a 4 pt mcat boast, graduate degree, clinical experiences, publication etc).

But this is expected, especially if a school receives 6000+ applications. It's probably hard to be completely consistent.
 
Well, from my experiences, getting an interview offer is sometimes completely luck and random. Especially since I've been rejected by schools which I interviewed at a previously year (even after I've improved entire application, including a 4 pt mcat boast, graduate degree, clinical experiences, publication etc).

But this is expected, especially if a school receives 6000+ applications. It's probably hard to be completely consistent.

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity" -Seneca, of Rome
 
^ nice avatar, one of the best shows to ever get cancelled

To OP - this thread combined with the friends vs grades thread is just depressing. If you're trying to justify staying in your room/the library every night while other pre-meds go out and socialize then I've got some bad news for you - your odds don't go up that much by "taking college seriously". Also, what does that even mean? Do I take college seriously if I celebrate thirsty thursday and hang out with friends on the weekend but still study enough to pull an A on my embryo test the following monday?

In my experience, which may not count for much, the "party" pre-meds (not necessarily those that drink, but those that are social) who make it to their junior year are there to stay, and usually have a decent shot at getting in. Can't wait to see your face when the first night after med school orientation you see one of your classmates rocking a cardboard bud select crown
 
Interesting of 117,000 applicants, about 11,000 have below a 3.0. People with less than a 3.0 make up about 10% of applicants. I think this table also considers historically black schools and the Puerto Rican schools which have lower stats than most MD schools. That means the acceptance are probably slightly higher.

Yeah, you got to be careful when looking at the combined stats list. It's highly dependent on if your state school has low stats or not. If you're an ORM from, say, New York or Cali the country-wide average doesn't really apply to you.
 
Important to be able to do well in school and also go out and have fun. Our medschool class always has keggers and parties at bars after tests and people also have lots of house parties. If you don't do anything else besides studying in college, I can't even imagine how you're going to handle medical school. And if it requires you to study every waking moment to just get by in school ... well you're probably doing something wrong.
 
30-32 MCAT, 3.80-4.0 GPA White Applicants, according to AAMC, 83% of them are accepted. I'm not sure where this 20-30% is coming from...

*shrugs*
 
30-32 MCAT, 3.80-4.0 GPA White Applicants, according to AAMC, 83% of them are accepted. I'm not sure where this 20-30% is coming from...

*shrugs*


LOL

That's like taking taking 50 people with perfect ACT scores, looking at their college GPAs, and saying "wow, just about EVERYONE gets a 3.9+ in college!"

a 30+ MCAT is in the top 15% of students who apply to medical school, as is a 3.8. Yes, you SHOULD have an 83% acceptance rate at that point on the curve. That's an entire SD to the right on BOTH the GPA AND MCAT curves!
 
LOL

That's like taking taking 50 people with perfect ACT scores, looking at their college GPAs, and saying "wow, just about EVERYONE gets a 3.9+ in college!"

a 30+ MCAT is in the top 15% of students who apply to medical school, as is a 3.8. Yes, you SHOULD have an 83% acceptance rate at that point on the curve. That's an entire SD to the right on BOTH the GPA AND MCAT curves!

I absolutely understand where you're coming from. Those are just my stats and I take my schooling seriously. (I'm certainly not saying those with lower figures don't, though).

Sorry to ask, but what does "SD to the right" mean?

To the OP, a buddy of mine who literally drinks every night, and spends more time watching ESPN than studying, has been able to pull of a 3.4GPA and 28 on the MCAT.
 
To OP - this thread combined with the friends vs grades thread is just depressing. If you're trying to justify staying in your room/the library every night while other pre-meds go out and socialize then I've got some bad news for you - your odds don't go up that much by "taking college seriously". Also, what does that even mean? Do I take college seriously if I celebrate thirsty thursday and hang out with friends on the weekend but still study enough to pull an A on my embryo test the following monday?

In my experience, which may not count for much, the "party" pre-meds (not necessarily those that drink, but those that are social) who make it to their junior year are there to stay, and usually have a decent shot at getting in. Can't wait to see your face when the first night after med school orientation you see one of your classmates rocking a cardboard bud select crown

if you see my OP, it indicates what I think a person who doesn't take college seriously is. In no way did I ever say that people who are social don't get into medical school.
 
if you see my OP, it indicates what I think a person who doesn't take college seriously is. In no way did I ever say that people who are social don't get into medical school.

Maybe it would help if you said what a person who DOES take college seriously is.
 
SD to the right = 1 standard deviation to the right of the mean score of applicants (im guessing the std is 3, and the mean is 27?)

However, looking at the chart, It doesnt seem like only 15% of people get 30+..
 
SD to the right = 1 standard deviation to the right of the mean score of applicants (im guessing the std is 3, and the mean is 27?)

However, looking at the chart, It doesnt seem like only 15% of people get 30+..

If anything, I would think above 32 would start getting small, as well as GPAs above 3.95. But I can't even see those figures only being 15% of all applicant. See still to be too low of a percentage.
 
SD to the right = 1 standard deviation to the right of the mean score of applicants (im guessing the std is 3, and the mean is 27?)

However, looking at the chart, It doesnt seem like only 15% of people get 30+..

If anything, I would think above 32 would start getting small, as well as GPAs above 3.95. But I can't even see those figures only being 15% of all applicants. Still seems to be too low of a percentage.
 
asdf
 
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SD to the right = 1 standard deviation to the right of the mean score of applicants (im guessing the std is 3, and the mean is 27?)

However, looking at the chart, It doesnt seem like only 15% of people get 30+..

Sorry, I worded that incorrectly earlier. The numbers cited were about 1 SD above the mean GPA for applicants and mean MCAT overall. The mean MCAT is approx. 24 w/ SD=7. Mean GPA of applicants is 3.4 w/ an SD of like 0.25 (I'd have to check to be sure... I know some of the SDs are like 0.40 and others 0.25... but I don't recall exactly what's what off the top of my head... the mean MCAT for applicants, btw, is about a 28)
 
Sorry, I worded that incorrectly earlier. The numbers cited were about 1 SD above the mean GPA for applicants and mean MCAT overall. The mean MCAT is approx. 24 w/ SD=7. Mean GPA of applicants is 3.4 w/ an SD of like 0.25 (I'd have to check to be sure... I know some of the SDs are like 0.40 and others 0.25... but I don't recall exactly what's what off the top of my head... the mean MCAT for applicants, btw, is about a 28)
Oh, gotcha. I'm still not sold on the 15% figure, though.
 
Oh, gotcha. I'm still not sold on the 15% figure, though.

31+ is 15% of the population that took the MCAT, which is generally accepted to be the population intending to apply to med school (i.e., that took "premed" seriously enough to make it through 3 yrs of med school prereqs and college coursework).
 
31+ is 15% of the population that took the MCAT, which is generally accepted to be the population intending to apply to med school (i.e., that took "premed" seriously enough to make it through 3 yrs of med school prereqs and college coursework).

I misread what you said earlier. Sorry!

My percentile (for my MCAT says) ~86th percentile. Seems right on.

Where can we find that accurate of a GPA percentage, one other than a big separation of 0.2 in 3.8-4.0? Thanks!
 
I misread what you said earlier. Sorry!

My percentile (for my MCAT says) ~86th percentile. Seems right on.

Where can we find that accurate of a GPA percentage, one other than a big separation of 0.2 in 3.8-4.0? Thanks!

Using the AAMC stats database. They don't give percentiles. You approximate the distribution using mean & SD data, which allow you to reconstruct an approximation of the original bell curve.
 
When you look at the most recent chart, applicants with a 30+ MCAT OR a 3.6 GPA stand a more than 50% chance of being accepted.
While I understand that there are a lot of factors that go into this, and a lot of overlap, I think that's comforting. Also, is the chart just MD or does it include DO schools?

I believe the "about half get in at all" statistic applies to MD schools, but I may be mistaken.

Also: "Of all people who apply to law school nationally, about 55 to 60 percent are accepted at one or more schools. In other words, about 40 percent of all applicants to law school aren't able to go because they aren't admitted anywhere." source
Now I realize these are different things, etc. etc. But that's all people who took the LSAT, and who "took pre-law seriously". I never hear pre-law kids worried about getting into law school period. I hear them worried about getting into a T-14 law school. I'm not saying the situations are necessarily equal, just that it's interesting considering that the stats aren't that hugely different. (when I started college I was planning on law school.)
 
When you look at the most recent chart, applicants with a 30+ MCAT OR a 3.6 GPA stand a more than 50% chance of being accepted.
While I understand that there are a lot of factors that go into this, and a lot of overlap, I think that's comforting. Also, is the chart just MD or does it include DO schools?

I believe the "about half get in at all" statistic applies to MD schools, but I may be mistaken.

Also: "Of all people who apply to law school nationally, about 55 to 60 percent are accepted at one or more schools. In other words, about 40 percent of all applicants to law school aren’t able to go because they aren’t admitted anywhere." source
Now I realize these are different things, etc. etc. But that's all people who took the LSAT, and who "took pre-law seriously". I never hear pre-law kids worried about getting into law school period. I hear them worried about getting into a T-14 law school. I'm not saying the situations are necessarily equal, just that it's interesting considering that the stats aren't that hugely different. (when I started college I was planning on law school.)


You have to keep in mind a few things:

-What's the difference between an LSAT test taker and law school applicant? Do most LSAT test takers end up applying? (some 40% of MCAT test takers/pre-meds end up getting cut at this point each year.)
-Do many students drop out of Pre-Law (prior to the LSAT) due to the non-existent pre-reqs? (i.e., what percentage of freshmen Pre-Law students finish as Pre-Law)

In reality, of the few students who actually make it to the MCAT, only about 60%*40%=24% will actually matriculate. Seeing as many law schools accept students with average LSAT scores (around 150 or an equivalent of a 24 on the MCAT) and there are over 20 law schools with LSAT averages below the national average of 150, I would guess probably somewhere around 70-90% of LSAT test takers end up applying to law school (seeing as about 60% of MCAT test takers do so and no non-URM primary med school averages much lower than the 60th percentile). With that assumption someone going into the LSAT would have, perhaps, a 80%*60% chance of getting in somewhere, which is 48%. Compared with a 24% chance at a medical school at the same point, these are EXCELLENT odds -- 2:1 actually. In reality, therefore, I'd say law school is pretty easy by comparison (in terms of admissions).
 
When you look at the most recent chart, applicants with a 30+ MCAT OR a 3.6 GPA stand a more than 50% chance of being accepted.
While I understand that there are a lot of factors that go into this, and a lot of overlap, I think that's comforting. Also, is the chart just MD or does it include DO schools?

I believe the "about half get in at all" statistic applies to MD schools, but I may be mistaken.

Also: "Of all people who apply to law school nationally, about 55 to 60 percent are accepted at one or more schools. In other words, about 40 percent of all applicants to law school aren't able to go because they aren't admitted anywhere." source
Now I realize these are different things, etc. etc. But that's all people who took the LSAT, and who "took pre-law seriously". I never hear pre-law kids worried about getting into law school period. I hear them worried about getting into a T-14 law school. I'm not saying the situations are necessarily equal, just that it's interesting considering that the stats aren't that hugely different. (when I started college I was planning on law school.)

Comforting? Even with a 3.96 and 32 MCAT, knowing that I have a ~50% chance, depending on who I talk to, of getting into med school frightens me. It makes me want to apply everywhere! haha
 
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