50 Unfilled Anesthesia Spots?

[Consigliere]

Word on the street is that 50 spots went unfilled this year. Discuss.

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[sev1]

Word on the street is that 50 spots went unfilled this year. Discuss.

I would think people are applying to more programs and interviewing at more. With so much overlap and programs not increasing number they interview they are going unfilled with the high overlap.

Just one theory.

 

[Magic5891]

confirmed. as an applicant who matched the regional statistics report thats available as of monday said:

PGY 1 Anesthesia 841 offered, 21 Unfilled
PGY 2 Anesthesia 536 offered, 30 Unfilled

 

[Impromptu]

Those spots may fill in the scramble, but 50 is a big number. I wonder if applicants are getting too good at trying to convince programs that they are their number 1 choice so that programs are unable to discern those that really want to go there vs those that don't.

All the excess interviewing hurts the pocketbook of the applicants and the programs. But that is how the game is played these days.

 

[Idiopathic]

top tier programs arent ranking everyone they interview, and are trusting in being able to pick from the scramble, in my opinion

 

[bigdan]

I'll be interested to see which places didn't fill; maybe applicants are actively avoiding ranking places for whatever reason. If there are 50 programs with one open spot, I'm not sure what to make of it - if there are a couple places that don't match 6 or 8 each, that's tell you something...

 

[xbulletin]

There may be a strong push among applicants to ignore prelim interviews and just go to as many anesthesia interviews as possible. These applicants are likely ranking categorical programs highly, making them more desirable (there was a higher proportion of unfilled advanced spots).

It may be likely some places (both high and low end) are not ranking all interviewed applicants and waiting for the scramble. They know they can pick up top-notch applicants who failed to make surgical subspecialties/derm and would be happy to have anesthesia as a backup plan.

 

[McGillGrad]

I said this last year and was thustly lambasted for being a fool. Gas is becoming easier for American grads to secure whilst remaining difficult for IMGs. It is cyclical and is probably because people fancy surgery more this year.

 

[xbulletin]

These are stats from 2010 match. I counted ~57 unmatched, so its essentially unchanged

Program / Quota / Matched

Anesthesia
Harbor-UCLA Med Ctr-CA 4 3
Loma Linda University-CA 10 7
U Connecticut Hlth Ctr 5 2
Yale-New Haven Hosp-CT 18 13
Med Coll Georgia-Augusta 5 4
Loyola Univ Med Ctr-IL 4 3
Loyola Univ Med Ctr-IL 9 7
U Maryland Med Ctr 7 4
U Massachusetts Med School 2 0
U Massachusetts Med School 4 2
UMDNJ-R W Johnson-Piscataway 9 7
SUNY HSC Brooklyn-NY 3 2
SUNY HSC Brooklyn-NY 15 4
University at Buffalo SOM-NY 8 5
Case Western/MetroHealth Med Ctr-OH 7 5
University of Toledo-OH 4 2
Temple Univ Hosp-PA 6 5
Medical University of SC 9 6
Texas Tech U Affil-Lubbock 4 1
University of Virginia 4 0
West Virginia University SOM 3 2
Trans + Anesth: UT Knoxville 6 5

 

[wine thief]

isn't it just programs holding spots for outside the match applicants?

 

[Osteoimperfecta]

There may be a strong push among applicants to ignore prelim interviews and just go to as many anesthesia interviews as possible. These applicants are likely ranking categorical programs highly, making them more desirable (there was a higher proportion of unfilled advanced spots).

It may be likely some places (both high and low end) are not ranking all interviewed applicants and waiting for the scramble. They know they can pick up top-notch applicants who failed to make surgical subspecialties/derm and would be happy to have anesthesia as a backup plan.

IMO this is the most ridiculous way to get residents. Trying to fill up your program with radiology/surgery/derm/etc rejects makes no sense. No sensible PD would want a candidiate who decided on anesthesia within 12 hours.

 

[ashkenazi1234]

Check out radiology's 41 unfilled spots

 

[xbulletin]

Maybe. But let's say you're a PD at a lower tier program. Most of the people you interviewed have step scores 200-210. They come from institutions that don't impress you much. You can fill your program with them, if you want. Or you can leave a couple open for the scramble-- you catch a couple derm applicants with 238s who didn't make it. Or maybe very good anesthesia candidates that applied to too many top programs and they didn't bite.

Either way, that person with the better grades, higher board scores, whatever is a more desirable candidate than someone with low scores who happened to do an extra month of anesthesia elective during medical school. That first group excelled during med school and will likely excel during residency, even if it wasnt their first choice specialty.

 

[Orin]

top tier programs arent ranking everyone they interview, and are trusting in being able to pick from the scramble, in my opinion

Most of the PDs/admin staff/etc we talked to are not/were not prepared for a scramble. In next year's controlled scramble, this may be a reasonable strategy.

isn't it just programs holding spots for outside the match applicants?

Yeah, some of those available scramble spots though were supposedly being held, or they didn't like my phone voice

 

[pgy13]

Most of the PDs/admin staff/etc we talked to are not/were not prepared for a scramble. In next year's controlled scramble, this may be a reasonable strategy.



Yeah, some of those available scramble spots though were supposedly being held, or they didn't like my phone voice

Remember, if these are advanced positions that didn't fill, the program has a whole year to find someone to take that spot. No need to deal with it on scramble day. Plenty of disillusioned surgeons that will start to appear in a few months.

 

[Trajan]

Maybe. But let's say you're a PD at a lower tier program. Most of the people you interviewed have step scores 200-210. They come from institutions that don't impress you much. You can fill your program with them, if you want. Or you can leave a couple open for the scramble-- you catch a couple derm applicants with 238s who didn't make it. Or maybe very good anesthesia candidates that applied to too many top programs and they didn't bite.

Either way, that person with the better grades, higher board scores, whatever is a more desirable candidate than someone with low scores who happened to do an extra month of anesthesia elective during medical school. That first group excelled during med school and will likely excel during residency, even if it wasnt their first choice specialty.

I disagree. Many PD's are likely wary of a US grad who fails to match with a 240. Anesthesia is not that competitive for US MD's, and if you don't match with stellar scores, it may indicate a significant personality issue that came out on interviews. The two most prestigious programs where I interviewed made it clear that once you're at the interview stage, they don't care if applicant A scored 17 points higher than applicant B. Remember, team work is important in anesthesia, and no one wants to put up with an obnoxious resident for three years, high scores or not.

But, yes, if you're a PD at a low tier program who wants to raise your program's mean USMLE scores, holding out for the scramble will probably get the higher scores, but may not get you better residents.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Maybe. But let's say you're a PD at a lower tier program. Most of the people you interviewed have step scores 200-210. They come from institutions that don't impress you much. You can fill your program with them, if you want. Or you can leave a couple open for the scramble-- you catch a couple derm applicants with 238s who didn't make it. Or maybe very good anesthesia candidates that applied to too many top programs and they didn't bite.

Either way, that person with the better grades, higher board scores, whatever is a more desirable candidate than someone with low scores who happened to do an extra month of anesthesia elective during medical school. That first group excelled during med school and will likely excel during residency, even if it wasnt their first choice specialty.

BAD idea.
No wonder this specialty fell apart. Not enough people who were genuinely in it for the right reasons, and then the CRNAs took advantage.
I hope you never become a PD if that is also the way you feel and think.

 

[periopdoc]

It isn't programs "holding spots for out-of-match candidates." The spots that are reserved for these candidates do not get reported as unfilled as they were never offered to the match in the first place.

The "unfilled positions" were offered to the match then went unfilled because either the specific programs did not rank enough applicants or not enough applicants ranked the specific programs.

It isn't a significant change from last year and I expect the caliber of unfilled programs will be pretty similar to what we saw last year.

Incidentally some of our best residents at UW were refugees from other specialties (I was an OB refugee myself). Many of us were interested in both anesthesia and another specialty and realized we could trial the other specialty and make a decision mid-intern year without losing time.

- pod

 

[TrojanGopher]

deleted

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

It isn't programs "holding spots for out-of-match candidates." The spots that are reserved for these candidates do not get reported as unfilled as they were never offered to the match in the first place.

The "unfilled positions" were offered to the match then went unfilled because either the specific programs did not rank enough applicants or not enough applicants ranked the specific programs.

It isn't a significant change from last year and I expect the caliber of unfilled programs will be pretty similar to what we saw last year.

Incidentally some of our best residents at UW were refugees from other specialties (I was an OB refugee myself). Many of us were interested in both anesthesia and another specialty and realized we could trial the other specialty and make a decision mid-intern year without losing time.

- pod

I'm guessing these "refugees" came from within the same hospital?

 

[Ronin2258]

I watch residentswap, though I no longer need to due to the fact that I found an Anesthesiology slot for June, (yay, me!) I still get their e-mails. 23 programs popped up over the course of the day yesterday, now down to 21.

I have discussed the cluster that this year's scramble has been elsewhere. However, the number of programs out there that used residentswap yesterday left me stunned.

May those that are scrambling have the best of luck.

I definitely concur that it is teamwork is one of the things Anesthesiology depends on. Not being a team player is no way to go through it. The last person I want to watch my back would be someone as described in this thread.

 

[Coastie]

It isn't programs "holding spots for out-of-match candidates." The spots that are reserved for these candidates do not get reported as unfilled as they were never offered to the match in the first place.

The "unfilled positions" were offered to the match then went unfilled because either the specific programs did not rank enough applicants or not enough applicants ranked the specific programs.

It isn't a significant change from last year and I expect the caliber of unfilled programs will be pretty similar to what we saw last year.

Incidentally some of our best residents at UW were refugees from other specialties (I was an OB refugee myself). Many of us were interested in both anesthesia and another specialty and realized we could trial the other specialty and make a decision mid-intern year without losing time.

- pod

I've been told otherwise from friends at a few programs.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I've been told otherwise from friends at a few programs.

Do explain.

I was always told outside of match agreements are given out prior to a deadline, then after that... whatever is left is reported to NRMP as their total slots avail in the match.

Example: CCF and their 25-30 spots, they give away half, and report 15 avail in the match...

 

[periopdoc]

I'm guessing these "refugees" came from within the same hospital?

Some did. Some did not.


- pod

 

[periopdoc]

Outside of match spots are just that. They can be given out at any time before or after the match. These spots do not get listed in the match statistics.

Programs that have out-of-match spots every year do not end up on the list of unfilled programs every year so the idea that these spots are reflected in the match statistics is incorrect.

A program could hold "match spots" for out-of-match applicants if they ranked fewer applicants than they have spots available, but I don't see them doing that.


-pod

 

[sev1]

Outside of match spots are just that. They can be given out at any time before or after the match. These spots do not get listed in the match statistics.

Programs that have out-of-match spots every year do not end up on the list of unfilled programs every year so the idea that these spots are reflected in the match statistics is incorrect.

A program could hold "match spots" for out-of-match applicants if they ranked fewer applicants than they have spots available, but I don't see them doing that.


-pod

This.

If a program has say 10 spots they cannot tell nrmp to only fill up the first 8. They number of open seats are listed and those that did not fill are listed. Now say they only want to fill 8 they could theoretically just list 8 candidates and hope all 8 match there and have 2 empty seats. But once they list more then 8 they could theoretically fill those seats.

If they are 'holding' spots then it will not even be listed in the number of seats a program has when you fill out your rank list on nrmp website.

 

[xbulletin]

BAD idea.
No wonder this specialty fell apart. Not enough people who were genuinely in it for the right reasons, and then the CRNAs took advantage.
I hope you never become a PD if that is also the way you feel and think.

I'm not sure what your point is. People scrambling into the specialty are a tiny slice of residents, so in no way are those who scramble representative of the specialty. That means nothing as far as "going in it for the right reasons" and you're drawing wild conclusions about how that led to CRNAs. And who are you define the right reasons anyway?

I also never said thats how I think or felt. But realistically, a PD wants his program to look good. And if I'm a PD, I worry someone with a very low step 1 score might not pass the boards. And residency is basically useless if you can't pass the boards.

 

[pgy13]

Do explain.

I was always told outside of match agreements are given out prior to a deadline, then after that... whatever is left is reported to NRMP as their total slots avail in the match.

Example: CCF and their 25-30 spots, they give away half, and report 15 avail in the match...

correct

 

[nycitygas]

The worst anesthesia program in the country in the worst location in america can fill if it wants. Anesthesia isnt rads or optho but competitive enough. The 50 unfilled spots for the most part come from overzealous ranking by the PD who most likely would rather take scrambler or a transfer (a gen surg/ med/ obgyn ect resident) then someone with multiple red flags (failed steps, failed rotations and so forth.).
Anyways, Congratulations to our new colleagues and welcome to the best field in medicine!

 

[sev1]

The worst anesthesia program in the country in the worst location in america can fill if it wants. Anesthesia isnt rads or optho but competitive enough. The 50 unfilled spots for the most part come from overzealous ranking by the PD who most likely would rather take scrambler or a transfer (a gen surg/ med/ obgyn ect resident) then someone with multiple red flags (failed steps, failed rotations and so forth.).
Anyways, Congratulations to our new colleagues and welcome to the best field in medicine!

Any program in any field can fill if they wanted to. Not really specific to anesthesia. Really at worst an fmg would be more then happy to fill random FM programs I am sure.

PD rank who they want to fill, but this year is no different then any other. With the large number of seats you are bound to have some seats not fill.

 

[BrockDoc]

The worst anesthesia program in the country in the worst location in america can fill if it wants. Anesthesia isnt rads or optho but competitive enough. The 50 unfilled spots for the most part come from overzealous ranking by the PD who most likely would rather take scrambler or a transfer (a gen surg/ med/ obgyn ect resident) then someone with multiple red flags (failed steps, failed rotations and so forth.).
Anyways, Congratulations to our new colleagues and welcome to the best field in medicine!

How would said medicine resident (soon to be BE/BC hospitalist) go about securing one of those spots?

 

[studentdoctor59]

BAD idea.
No wonder this specialty fell apart. Not enough people who were genuinely in it for the right reasons, and then the CRNAs took advantage.
I hope you never become a PD if that is also the way you feel and think.

 

[Engin]

Three people who didn't match into ortho in our class, scrambled into anesthesia. We also had 32 people match into anesthesia in our class. There's strong interest in anesthesia and we're pulling in very strong applicants.

 

[fabfive5]

Three people who didn't match into ortho in our class, scrambled into anesthesia. We also had 32 people match into anesthesia in our class. There's strong interest in anesthesia and we're pulling in very strong applicants.

Glad to hear there is still a strong REAL interest out there...

 

[Camel]

Don't know if there are many fields more far apart in medicine... refer to ortho vs anesthesiology video. Hopefully it all works out for the best.

 

[Chloroform4Life]

I'm sure you'll find a way to enjoy whatever you're doing.

 

[TheBrightingInn]

*Deleted on legal demand of NRMP for copyright violation*

 

[Bluemoon312]

can't wait for next year =)

 

[IDBasco]

Is there any reason the list can't be posted at this point? Match is over. Scramble is over. Etc, etc.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Is there any reason the list can't be posted at this point? Match is over. Scramble is over. Etc, etc.

Yes, there is a reason - hence my deletion of the three above posts.

I deleted posts that contained information about unmatched positions. One post was speculative in nature, but clearly based on insider knowledge.

This is no joke. The NRMP takes this very seriously and so does SDN.

If I understand correctly, the data will be released on Monday at which time it will be publicly available (but don't quote me on this).

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Is there any reason the list can't be posted at this point? Match is over. Scramble is over. Etc, etc.

The reason is the NRMP states that anyone who lists information about scramble spots prior to them releasing it is committing a "match violation" if caught ... so SDN is protecting everyone by following their rules and deleting those posts.