MD 526 MCAT, 3.77c non-trad concerned about lopsided app

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EverStriving

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Hi all,

White, CA Resident
Undergrad: One of the UCs

cGPA 3.77, similar sGPA
Upward trend; almost all A/A+ in last 2 years of undergrad

2015 MCAT: 526

Research:
2 years undergrad (~200 hours total I would guess)
4 years full time after graduation
6 publications

LORs:
3 excellent from PIs (includes 1 science and 1 non-science)

Clinical:
100 hrs volunteering in a hospital but not in a clinical area (customer service role)
120 hrs volunteering in clinical areas of above hospital
~30 hrs shadowing

Non-clinical:
20-30 hours volunteering at the Food Bank

Leadership:
Eagle Scout (a long time ago...)
I personally trained quite a few new volunteers coming into the hospital, and then trained a new trainer. It seems like the volunteer office designated our shift as the training mill!

Awards and Honors:
Various, including the most prestigious UG research award from my department

My main concern, as titled, is that my app is a little heavy toward academics and research and light on ECs that demonstrate altruism/leadership. I was mostly geared toward a career in research but realized that I would far prefer a career in medicine as it allows for a more personal connection with the people I'm helping. I'm considering MD/PhD as well.

Any thoughts on where I stand, and if I should take more time to bulk up the clinical experience? Thanks all!

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a 526 can help a whole lot in getting people to get past weaknesses someone might have.


As is 130 hours of volunteering in the hospital will get the job done. The world is your oyster; Aim high.
 
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Well those top schools will love that MCAT and your research.
 
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I think MD/PHD would be a great fit for you. It would really fit the research heavy nature of your application. But great job!
 
I agree. Just continue with volunteering while applying, and do aim high. Start with Harvard. Yes, Harvard. Columbia, Duke, Vandy, BU, U Miami, Tulane should also be on the list, plus your state school, if any.


a 526 can help a whole lot in getting people to get past weaknesses someone might have.


As is 130 hours of volunteering in the hospital will get the job done. The world is your oyster; Aim high.
 
Thanks for all the votes of confidence!

Btw I'm a CA resident. Here's the list so far:

Harvard
Columbia
Duke
Vanderbilt
Boston University
University of Miami
Tulane
UCSF
UCLA
UCSD
UC Irvine
UC Davis
Mayo
Stanford?

I added Mayo because I know some PIs from there so it would be kind of a snub not to apply.

@Goro
Out of curiosity, why those specific schools instead of other top schools? Are those the ones that historically care more about research than other ECs?
 
You're going to love the Bay Area. Real question for you is, UCSF or Stanford?
 
I would remove Tulane and Maryland from your current list and add Cornell, NYU, Sinai, WashU, Yale, Chicago, Northwestern, Stanford, Penn, Hopkins, Pitt, and Vanderbilt. You're likely to get lots of bites at research heavy top schools.
 
Hi all,

Thanks for all the help so far!

I have a follow-up question. I actually didn't start my primary application until after posting this thread, due to a less-than-enthusiastic pre med advisor at my school making me underestimate my application. I've been making good progress, but the earliest I anticipate being able to submit is late July. Even if I pre-write secondaries, I'm looking at earliest late August, probably early September for being a complete application at schools.

How much do you think this will affect me? I've seen Goro say to others that it's best to apply as early as possible, sometimes even being worth it to wait out the cycle. I just want to make sure I don't squander a great resume by having a rushed/late-ish application.
 
Hi all,

Thanks for all the help so far!

I have a follow-up question. I actually didn't start my primary application until after posting this thread, due to a less-than-enthusiastic pre med advisor at my school making me underestimate my application. I've been making good progress, but the earliest I anticipate being able to submit is late July. Even if I pre-write secondaries, I'm looking at earliest late August, probably early September for being a complete application at schools.

How much do you think this will affect me? I've seen Goro say to others that it's best to apply as early as possible, sometimes even being worth it to wait out the cycle. I just want to make sure I don't squander a great resume by having a rushed/late-ish application.
Its shocking how universally bad premed advising is. My university has 1/5th of grads apply to Med school yet they still gave me bad advice early on...

Anyways you have the equivalent to a 40+ MCAT and demonstrated productivity as a researcher, with a decent (for top schools) GPA. You will get plenty of interviews even being a few weeks late to the game. The people who need to worry most about applying early are the borderline/average apps that will not be given consideration later in the cycle when remaining interview invites dwindle, and "late applicant" usually refers to a much bigger delay than what you're facing.
 
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Hello. I realize that this is a bit off topic, but I wanted to inquire about your process to learn/study the Psychology and Sociology section. Did you study solely from prep books? Or, did you take college courses in each of the subjects. I have taken multiple psychology courses as it is my minor; however, I have not got around to taking any Sociology courses.
 
Hi all! I'm bumping this up for the new cycle. I ended up waiting a year after all, for reasons unrelated to my resume. I've edited my original post with updated hours, etc.

I've spent the last few days doing some serious number crunching from MSAR and came up with this school list. I've separated the list into California schools and OOS schools, and within each list the schools are ranked from highest to lowest probability of success. This takes into account class size, app pool size, IS/OOS bias, and high-MCAT bias.

CA Schools
UCSF
USC
UCLA (Geffen)
UCSD
UC Irvine
Stanford

OOS Schools
Case Western (University track)
Cleveland Clinic (CWU college track)
Wash U
Penn
Pitt
Mt Sinai
Columbia
Yale
NYU
UMich
Duke
Vanderbilt
Mayo (AZ)

Other Possibilities
Albert Einstein
Emory
Dartmouth

Eliminated
UC Davis (don't fit mission, extremely low yield due to lack of high-MCAT favoritism)
Harvard (onerous LOR requirements that I can't meet)
Johns Hopkins (no 2nd science professor letter)

I felt my MCAT forced me into a top-heavy list, so I also made the list slightly larger (n=19) than I would otherwise. Is this reasonable or should I still throw in a couple 'safety' schools?

Edit: Scratched Davis, HMS, and Hopkins. Added Mt Sinai, NYU, Duke, Mich.
 
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I did a triple take to confirm that I was reading 526. That's the highest MCAT I've seen on here in years! As @Goro would say, "aim for the stars!"


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Your lack of clinical experience should not be a problem, especially for MD/PhD applications. Excellent stats and solid ECs; apply anywhere you want, but top 5 may be a reach without something extra pointy besides the MCAT. Also, I suggest dropping the "modestly positive" letter. If you have great letters and 1 subpar letter, it brings you down. There is nothing that letter could add to your application.
 
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Your lack of clinical experience should not be a problem, especially for MD/PhD applications. Excellent stats and solid ECs; apply anywhere you want, but top 5 may be a reach without something extra pointy besides the MCAT. Also, I suggest dropping the "modestly positive" letter. If you have great letters and 1 subpar letter, it brings you down. There is nothing that letter could add to your application.

Thanks for the reply! I guess I should have updated the narrative as well as the resume, but I wanted to keep last year's comments in context.

I'm not so worried about the clinical experience now that I have more hours at the hospital and will be getting more shadowing hours in soon prior to application. I've also decided against MD/PhD because of my age (it would basically force me into starting a family during intern year/residency). So it's just MD now. And the weaker letter I would only be sending to schools that require letters from all previous PIs (HMS for example).

A couple more questions (to you or whomever else might be reading). Should I drop the MD letter because those are seen as fluff? Also, I don't have a non-science letter; hopefully I can get it waved since it's been a while since UG for me, or use the first PI's letter in that slot. Does psychology count as non-science in this context, since it's not BCPM?
 
Thanks for the reply! I guess I should have updated the narrative as well as the resume, but I wanted to keep last year's comments in context.

I'm not so worried about the clinical experience now that I have more hours at the hospital and will be getting more shadowing hours in soon prior to application. I've also decided against MD/PhD because of my age (it would basically force me into starting a family during intern year/residency). So it's just MD now. And the weaker letter I would only be sending to schools that require letters from all previous PIs (HMS for example).

A couple more questions (to you or whomever else might be reading). Should I drop the MD letter because those are seen as fluff? Also, I don't have a non-science letter; hopefully I can get it waved since it's been a while since UG for me, or use the first PI's letter in that slot. Does psychology count as non-science in this context, since it's not BCPM?
HMS takes a maximum of 6 letters so if you are opting out on the committee letter, which a fair number of non-trads do, you may be able to not submit the mediocre letter. You also need a non-science as HMS requires one; psychology counts. I don't think MD letters have much value but that's my opinion.
 
You're golden for any US MD school that doesn't have in-state bias. Your application reads more like an MD-PhD than a regular MD.
 
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HMS takes a maximum of 6 letters so if you are opting out on the committee letter, which a fair number of non-trads do, you may be able to not submit the mediocre letter. You also need a non-science as HMS requires one; psychology counts. I don't think MD letters have much value but that's my opinion.

I'm not sure I follow... are you saying I should crowd out that letter with other letters? I wouldn't be able to come up with 2 more that are any better, so I'm not sure how that would help me. As for the MD, since I have open letter slots available is there any downside to just including it, even if it is a little fluffy? Does including fluff leave a bad taste in adcoms' mouths? Edit: or maybe it would be perceived as wasting their time by reading it?
 
I'm not sure I follow... are you saying I should crowd out that letter with other letters? I wouldn't be able to come up with 2 more that are any better, so I'm not sure how that would help me. As for the MD, since I have open letter slots available is there any downside to just including it, even if it is a little fluffy? Does including fluff leave a bad taste in adcoms' mouths? Edit: or maybe it would be perceived as wasting their time by reading it?
Hmm perhaps you could get some letters that illustrate a different aspect of you as a candidate. I think it is very important to HMS because everyone is academically qualified. Anything from a hobby or other activity, volunteering, etc?

I would defer to the advice of the adcoms on here about the MD letter but my guess is that if you have a series of excellent letters and one is not on par, you go down in impression.
 
Hmm perhaps you could get some letters that illustrate a different aspect of you as a candidate. I think it is very important to HMS because everyone is academically qualified. Anything from a hobby or other activity, volunteering, etc?

I would defer to the advice of the adcoms on here about the MD letter but my guess is that if you have a series of excellent letters and one is not on par, you go down in impression.

I suppose I could add a letter from my hospital volunteering. Still, crowding out the ok PI letter seems disingenuous to me. Besides, that letter won't be sink-my-ship bad - it just won't be super duper like the rest. The PI in question has already said he would write me a positive letter. I made some mistakes on that research project (it was one of the first ones I did), and it was a learning experience for me. I feel I can explain this well in interviews if needed and spin it as a positive-growth aspect of the application. What do you think?
 
I suppose I could add a letter from my hospital volunteering. Still, crowding out the ok PI letter seems disingenuous to me. Besides, that letter won't be sink-my-ship bad - it just won't be super duper like the rest. The PI in question has already said he would write me a positive letter. I made some mistakes on that research project (it was one of the first ones I did), and it was a learning experience for me. I feel I can explain this well in interviews if needed and spin it as a positive-growth aspect of the application. What do you think?
Just throwing the option out there. Not disingenuous if you have better letters to fill the requirements.
 
Just throwing the option out there. Not disingenuous if you have better letters to fill the requirements.

Fair enough. Thanks for the advice!

And thanks werunthis and Swish16 for the encouragement!
 
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