Quantcast

6 year OMFS and undergraduate grades

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

armorshell

One Man Freak Show
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
7,173
Reaction score
257
So I was hoping to get some opinions on the process that 6 year OMFS program work with the med schools to choose applicants. There's not a good thread on this in the forum history, and I have a personal vested interest since I have crap undergrad grades and am interested in doing a 6 year program.

So, how do most programs work? Med school doesn't care? Do they look primarily at undergraduate grades? NBDE scores?

What schools have you learned from the interview trail where the med school has final say? I've heard Pitt, UCSF, and I'm guessing most of the top ranked med schools probably want a lot of say.
 

SydB

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Nebraska's .pdf indicates that the medical school makes the final decision on all applicants: http://www.unmc.edu/GME/pdf/GME_Oral_Max.pdf

I think that undergrad grades are very important followed by part 1 and then the dental school basic science courses. I spoke with a resident at a 6 year program and he said that less than half of the people they interviewed were cleared by the med school. He also told me that people they thought were gonna breeze by the med school didn't and people that they thought wouldn't did, ability to speak and interact must also be important...
 

KOM

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
1,241
Reaction score
5
I've spoke with the Mayo clinic here in MN briefly and they told me they will look at undergrad grades, but are more interested in your dental school performance. You don't have to send a separate application to the medical school.

I'm going back soon to ask a few more Q's so if you have any specific ones let me know.
 

KOM

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
1,241
Reaction score
5
FYI-

Squished Rat posted this about Mayo.

Mayo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This was taken from Battlesign, a 2nd yr resident at Mayo.

Mayo was my first choice and would still be today. We get great training. The program has changed from what I heard it used to be like. Our volume is fantastic. The only time you wear a suit is the two half days a week that you are doing consults, other than that you wear scrubs.
From the structure it makes it look like we are only on service two years of the six. In reality during medical school you are in med school for 6 weeks and then back on service for 2 weeks. We do 2 years and 3 months of medical school in total.

Like most programs we share face trauma with plastics, ENT and OMFS. We all take three weeks at a time. When we ar on what ever comes in we do. When plastics is on we do any lefort1-3 and mandibles. Therefore, our service does most of the facial trauma. Patients come form all over to get surgery. This new structure is only 1 year old. It used to be anatomical specific, but that has all changed. We do three months in Jacksonville to get the knife and gun club trauma.

We do alot of elective surgery as well. From neck dissections, orthognathics, reconstruction, cranial facial and much more.

Our out-patient clinic is busy tons of thirds, implants, single tooth extractions, cosmetics and much more. We don't do a ton of point and pull on prison inmates and hookers. If you like that this is not your program.

The attendings are great. Having three of the five staff Mayo trained is not a weakness, nor is it that unusual. Most programs have attendings that are trained at the same program they stay on with. The Mayo trained surgeons are very strong. We have a cancer scope with our cancer surgeon.

Life is great at this program. It is no country club, we bust our balls. Long hours and alot of work. It all comes in waves like any where else.


To add to what he said, my impressions as an applicant is that it is an outstanding program. Facilities are second to none. Van Ess put up the case numbers for the year and they were not weak...all I can remember is 400something pathology cases last year. I also remember that they weren't as weak in trauma as I thought they would be. Of course they aren't in Atlanta or Dallas, but I think the trauma numbers were pretty good. The attendings were all very nice. The residents were some of the nicest I've met. This year is the start of a new format for incoming residents. They only do yrs 2 and 3 of med school. Med school costs 10k/yr but you get paid 30k/yr in med school. You are back on OMFS quite a bit in med school. The med school goes for 6 weeks and then usually has 2 weeks off for elective time which is when you go back on service. The med school experience also seems excellent...small classes and you are treated well. They have structured the general surgery years so you now get credit for 2 yrs of general surgery although actual time spent on general surgery during those times looks to be about 8 months total. You do 3 months in Jacksonville as alluded to earlier where they put you up in an apt and give you a car. They have set aside OR time for 1.5 OR's/day 5 days a week for scheduled cases. That's a lot in my opinion as I don't think trauma cases are scheduled. Those are add-ons everywhere I've externed. Seems like to you get a lot of private practice type of stuff i.e. 3rds and implants, orthognathics, as well as some crazier path cases. My impression was cosmetics is probably a weaker area here although I have heard Dr. Rieck is outstanding at cosmetics...just hard to drum up lots of cosmetic business in Rochester, MN. I know several guys who are rankig this program #1. I think this is a great program. I forgot to add that total time spent on OMFS is 177 weeks so about 40 or 41 months are spent on OMFS even while getting 2 general surgery years.
 

armorshell

One Man Freak Show
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
7,173
Reaction score
257
I've spoke with the Mayo clinic here in MN briefly and they told me they will look at undergrad grades, but are more interested in your dental school performance. You don't have to send a separate application to the medical school.

I'm going back soon to ask a few more Q's so if you have any specific ones let me know.

Thanks for posting this, I probably wouldn't have even applied to Mayo before under the assumption they'd dance on my Pass printout in golf spikes and burn a tiny figure of me in effigy.
 

KOM

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
1,241
Reaction score
5
Thanks for posting this, I probably wouldn't have even applied to Mayo before under the assumption they'd dance on my Pass printout in golf spikes and burn a tiny figure of me in effigy.

:) Awe, they'd do no such thing...give it a shot. But please be so kind as to match your first round so I wouldn't have to compete with you the year after. :thumbup:
 

Yahtzee

Full Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
94
Reaction score
2
During my application process, I got the distinct impression that it varied from one program to another and depends a lot on the political relationship between the MFS division and the medical school in question. I think you can definitely trust that if you get an interview, you'll most likely be accepted to the medical school - I doubt that the residency would waste time and interview spots on someone who'd be rejected by the school.
 

OMSfanatic

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
I post matched to a 6 year spot last year but the med school denied me since I didn't have my bachelors, so I was unable to take the spot even though it was offered by the OMS department. So look for that requirement as well.
 

2thguy82

Full Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Messages
91
Reaction score
0
During my application process, I got the distinct impression that it varied from one program to another and depends a lot on the political relationship between the MFS division and the medical school in question. I think you can definitely trust that if you get an interview, you'll most likely be accepted to the medical school - I doubt that the residency would waste time and interview spots on someone who'd be rejected by the school.



I interviewed at 6 MD included OMFS programs this year. Only at one did they comment that I had not yet passed the medical school admissions review. The rest all confirmed that by being offered the interview, I was in to the med school if the OMS people wanted me.

It should also be said, I interviewed at a range of places, and the one with the strict medical school was by no means a better program. As a matter of fact, as far as medical school rankings go, it was amongst the lower ranked programs I visited, so it definitely is a program by program preference....
 

aka47g

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
.
 
Last edited:

armorshell

One Man Freak Show
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
7,173
Reaction score
257
I believe the most important distinction is schools that approve through the med school before and after the interview. As long as they reject me before the interview that's fine, all it means is that I have to apply to more schools.

If the med school makes decision after the interview process, that throws a double element of randomness into the match process.
 

setdoc7

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
1,515
Reaction score
1,154
During my application process, I got the distinct impression that it varied from one program to another and depends a lot on the political relationship between the MFS division and the medical school in question. I think you can definitely trust that if you get an interview, you'll most likely be accepted to the medical school - I doubt that the residency would waste time and interview spots on someone who'd be rejected by the school.

At Jacobi/Einstein only those who pass the med school admissions committee are interviewed. Undergrad grades and board scores are important.
 

The Don

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
34
Reaction score
0
anyone know anything about case western in terms of the med school and admissions?
h
 

servitup

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
500
Reaction score
8
Case's med school interview was one of 2 legit med school interviews I had. Very formal. Seemed very important.
 

armorshell

One Man Freak Show
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
7,173
Reaction score
257
I wish I never started this thread as I see all the potential programs I had on my list wither.
 

SoCalDent

Full Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
287
Reaction score
0
I wish I never started this thread as I see all the potential programs I had on my list wither.

Your undergrad grades can't be that bad. With your ranking and NBDE, that covers up a lot of flaws (except maybe your looks?).
 

denti2008

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
I was wondering how much OMFS 6 yr/4 yr programs look into Part II score. A poor Part II should be retaken then? Thanks!
 

DrLefort7

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
any input regarding part ii score? thanks!

When I interviewed, i hadn't even taken part II yet. So obviously it didn't factor in at all. But if you have already graduated and your part II score is very low, it may be a different story.
 

denti2008

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Thanks for your feedback. Some of my friends were recommending me NOT to retake part II as long as I passed. You guys think I should retake Part II before I apply? How much does it weigh for OS programs? Thanks!
 

OMSfanatic

Full Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
any input regarding part ii score? thanks!

I had part 2 scores on my PASS app this year. Nobody commented/mentioned it at any place I interviewed. Having said that, it was an 87. Nothing to write home about, but not awful. That may be why nothing was said. Most places probably don't care though. But I wouldn't blow it off cause a 75 looks like you're lazy.
 

Iwantmydds

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
94
Reaction score
0
so what undergrad GPA is safe bet for the 6 year programs then? i know that it's never clear-cut but are there any evidence-based guesses?
 

txdent2be2007

Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Messages
115
Reaction score
0
...was at Kentucky. The med school sent a representative from family medicine to interview us -- it went something like this (note the broken English):

Med school interviewer: "So, if you come to our oral surgery program you gonna make lot of really good dentures?"

Me (surprised but thinking he is kidding): "Um, ha ha...no sir!"

Interviewer: "But all the dentists here can make good dentures or maybe some veneers -- you gonna do these, no?"

Me (aware by now he has no idea what OMFSers do): "No sir, we do facial trauma, jaw repositioning surgery, tumors, cleft lip/palate, etc."

Interviewer (shocked): "Why you need to be dentist to do all this?"

The med school doesn't care about your qualifications. Heck, sometimes they don't even know what you're going to do in residency. The ones that have a med school interview just want to say they met you and you don't have horns or green hair!
 

CNS QNS

New Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Ok guys.... FWIW. I participated heavily in the admissions process at my 4 year OMS program and this is how I perceive the the situation. It may be slightly different at the 6 year programs.

It's a sales job pure and simple. Used to be 2 pronged. Now may be 3 pronged. There is nothing wrong with this. It's what makes the world go round.

First prong.........get the interview. You know what this entails, it's all over this forum: best grades and test scores you can muster, class rank, LOR's, etc. GPR or 1 year OMFS fellowship if you don't. If you think you can do better on an exam and have the time and money then do it. (if I was pre-screening your app for interviews I would think to myself....this SOB really wants this, let's interview him and see how he carries himself.)

Second prong..... the interview. If you get the interview you can get into the program. It's all you here. We are looking to see if you are a grown-up. Personal appearance and grooming. How you answer questions, how you anticipate questions, eye contact, delivery. What you do and say when you don't know the answer to a question. (talk to current residents if possible - get some idea of the questions.) Questions that you ask when prompted can be equally important. Figure this out ahead of time but don't sound too rehearsed or canned. Better to formulate a question based on some information presented during the interview. Shows that you pay attention and process rapidly. Practice interviewing yourself or have someone else do it. Be serious about it.) Do not interrupt. Turn off your cell phone. Think about it. You're the interviewer. Who do you want? The kid with the really good academic record who has the personality of a squid or the kid who has slightly less academic prowess but whose enthusiasm you like and whose desire is almost palpable (but well-controlled and poised during the interview)

Third prong........medical school interview. I did this on my own and not as part of the OMFS program so I can't speak to specific programs. My guess is that there are similarities. Try to figure out ahead of time what the med school is looking for in their admissions process and give it to them. My best guess these days would be along the lines of "I am seriously considering a career in academia and the completion of both degrees will enable me to better pursue that goal as most of the academic positions today are calling for both degrees and I think in the future it will be a requirement." (doesn't really matter if this really happens or not) or "medical school curriculum will enable me to have a better understanding of the whole patient and therefore provide better overall treatment." Be humble. They don't necessarily know what it takes to get all the pre-requisites that you did in order to secure the interview. Let them know that you would be honored to be offered a spot at their med school and would work very hard to ensure that their decision was a wise one.

Lastly, apply to 4 year programs as well. You will be every bit as good an oral surgeon and if you really have that desire to get a medical degree, the opportunity to do so will likely be greater at the completion of a hospital based residency with a fistful of recommendations from all the M.D. heads of the various departments that you have befriended during your 4 years.
 

Iwantmydds

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
94
Reaction score
0
Ok guys.... FWIW. I participated heavily in the admissions process at my 4 year OMS program and this is how I perceive the the situation. It may be slightly different at the 6 year programs.

It's a sales job pure and simple. Used to be 2 pronged. Now may be 3 pronged. There is nothing wrong with this. It's what makes the world go round.

First prong.........get the interview. You know what this entails, it's all over this forum: best grades and test scores you can muster, class rank, LOR's, etc. GPR or 1 year OMFS fellowship if you don't. If you think you can do better on an exam and have the time and money then do it. (if I was pre-screening your app for interviews I would think to myself....this SOB really wants this, let's interview him and see how he carries himself.)

Second prong..... the interview. If you get the interview you can get into the program. It's all you here. We are looking to see if you are a grown-up. Personal appearance and grooming. How you answer questions, how you anticipate questions, eye contact, delivery. What you do and say when you don't know the answer to a question. (talk to current residents if possible - get some idea of the questions.) Questions that you ask when prompted can be equally important. Figure this out ahead of time but don't sound too rehearsed or canned. Better to formulate a question based on some information presented during the interview. Shows that you pay attention and process rapidly. Practice interviewing yourself or have someone else do it. Be serious about it.) Do not interrupt. Turn off your cell phone. Think about it. You're the interviewer. Who do you want? The kid with the really good academic record who has the personality of a squid or the kid who has slightly less academic prowess but whose enthusiasm you like and whose desire is almost palpable (but well-controlled and poised during the interview)

Third prong........medical school interview. I did this on my own and not as part of the OMFS program so I can't speak to specific programs. My guess is that there are similarities. Try to figure out ahead of time what the med school is looking for in their admissions process and give it to them. My best guess these days would be along the lines of "I am seriously considering a career in academia and the completion of both degrees will enable me to better pursue that goal as most of the academic positions today are calling for both degrees and I think in the future it will be a requirement." (doesn't really matter if this really happens or not) or "medical school curriculum will enable me to have a better understanding of the whole patient and therefore provide better overall treatment." Be humble. They don't necessarily know what it takes to get all the pre-requisites that you did in order to secure the interview. Let them know that you would be honored to be offered a spot at their med school and would work very hard to ensure that their decision was a wise one.

Lastly, apply to 4 year programs as well. You will be every bit as good an oral surgeon and if you really have that desire to get a medical degree, the opportunity to do so will likely be greater at the completion of a hospital based residency with a fistful of recommendations from all the M.D. heads of the various departments that you have befriended during your 4 years.

thank you for your solid, genuine advice. :)
 

Impacted K9

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
39
Reaction score
16
Could anybody please make a comment on armorshell's question !? Is there an undergrad GPA cutoff for most 6 yr programs? if so what programs have this sorta requirement ?
 

dmdluffy

YOSH!!~
7+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2010
Messages
874
Reaction score
140
This thread is so old it'd be in kindergarten or first grade if it were a child...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Golfguy

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
388
Reaction score
30
I interviewed at a lot of 6-year programs. It seemed to depend upon the program how much pull the med school had. I had a lot of crappy undergrad grades early on, and got 15 interviews total. While it's possible some programs nixed me because of these ancient grades, almost all of them were fine with them. IMO, a solid CBSE score with good recent grades in DS and maybe late undergrad (not sure on this part) are more important than old undergrad grades. I also think the OMFS department in most cases choose the candidates, with just a checkoff from the medical school. Bottom line: control what you can now by scoring above 65 on the CBSE, getting good letters, and improving your class rank; and it will work out for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

#kalel

Full Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
114
Reaction score
105
I interviewed at a lot of 6-year programs. It seemed to depend upon the program how much pull the med school had. I had a lot of crappy undergrad grades early on, and got 15 interviews total. While it's possible some programs nixed me because of these ancient grades, almost all of them were fine with them. IMO, a solid CBSE score with good recent grades in DS and maybe late undergrad (not sure on this part) are more important than old undergrad grades. I also think the OMFS department in most cases choose the candidates, with just a checkoff from the medical school. Bottom line: control what you can now by scoring above 65 on the CBSE, getting good letters, and improving your class rank; and it will work out for you.

Just out of curiosity, specifically which are these programs with heavy med school weight?
 

Impacted K9

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
39
Reaction score
16
I interviewed at a lot of 6-year programs. It seemed to depend upon the program how much pull the med school had. I had a lot of crappy undergrad grades early on, and got 15 interviews total. While it's possible some programs nixed me because of these ancient grades, almost all of them were fine with them. IMO, a solid CBSE score with good recent grades in DS and maybe late undergrad (not sure on this part) are more important than old undergrad grades. I also think the OMFS department in most cases choose the candidates, with just a checkoff from the medical school. Bottom line: control what you can now by scoring above 65 on the CBSE, getting good letters, and improving your class rank; and it will work out for you.
Thanks for your input man !
 
Top