7-Figure Anesthesia Salaries?

[Ignatius J]

Austin has 2 big groups: one who sold to Mednax a few years ago and one that's an equal partner group still fighting the fight. Both use CRNAs. Needless to say one job is way better than the other, but that partner job is tough to get into (know they're still interviewing and hiring though as they interviewed a classmate of mine recently)

Houston is dominated by USAP and CRNAs with a couple small partner owned group outliers.

San Antonio is still partner owned but terrible set up. MD only and follow surgeons around all day from facility to facility.

Dallas has huge USAP presence plus a bunch of little partner owned groups. Some CRNAs, some MD only.

Texas is a mix bag state for sure

I can tell you that your sentiment on San Antonio isn't consistent with city's anesthesiologists. I chuckle every time I hear someone say "Yeah, but you have to follow the surgeon facility to facility." Most days the anesthesiologists are at the same facility all day. And when they do move, most of the time they walk a block down the road. Exceptions exist, but those are just that, exceptions.

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[pgg]

I bet that you two guys would have a great time over a couple of beers. I remember how I used to be pissed off by various people at various times, and now I enjoy most of their posts, because I know that their core is good, and so is mine, and that we might have had different experiences, or I just might be too green, or the opposite, and that we can agree to disagree.

You're probably right.

 

[deleted171991]

How is UTHSCSA?

 

[periopdoc]

Montana

 

[caligas]

Montana

 

[deleted50478]

I think the Austin area is MD only for the most part.

Nope

 

[chocomorsel]

I can tell you that your sentiment on San Antonio isn't consistent with city's anesthesiologists. I chuckle every time I hear someone say "Yeah, but you have to follow the surgeon facility to facility." Most days the anesthesiologists are at the same facility all day. And when they do move, most of the time they walk a block down the road. Exceptions exist, but those are just that, exceptions.

Lets be real. Your group is centered in the medical center. So you may have the privilege of walking down the block.

Your competitors though, the other mega group in town, goes all over San Antonio. So they drive miles and miles in between cases. I have interviewed with both groups.

The group I wanted didn't offer the position. Anyway, that's the skinny on San Antonio.

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

2 years ago, I saw the mean at 360k. I checked today in my area, and saw it rose to like 410k

 

[sevoflurane]

Lets be real. Your group is centered in the medical center. So you may have the privilege of walking down the block.

Your competitors though, the other mega group in town, goes all over San Antonio. So they drive miles and miles in between cases. I have interviewed with both groups.

The group I wanted didn't offer the position. Anyway, that's the skinny on San Antonio.

I interviewed with both a long time ago as well. Both STAR and Tejas had divisions that serviced particular areas of San Antonio if I remember correctly. There was some degree of following surgeons. Things may have changed over the last 10 years. My current group services several hospitals and many surgery centers. Our schedules keep us at one place 95% of the time. Sometimes we go for a ride to a surgery center or another hospital.
Squeezing in a lunch at a restaurant or running some errands on a sunny day between cases has it's merits. I don't mind it, but everything is pretty close to each other.

 

[GA8314]

I interviewed with both a long time ago as well. Both STAR and Tejas had divisions that serviced particular areas of San Antonio if I remember correctly. There was some degree of following surgeons. Things may have changed over the last 10 years. My current group services several hospitals and many surgery centers. Our schedules keep us at one place 95% of the time. Sometimes we go for a ride to a surgery center or another hospital.
Squeezing in a lunch at a restaurant or running some errands on a sunny day between cases has it's merits. I don't mind it, but everything is pretty close to each other.

Yeah man, there's no perfect group. There are great gigs out there, but none are perfect. I think it's all about attitude. A recurrent theme, it seems, as to those who choose to see the glass 1/2 full versus empty.

 

[Howard888]

yep no perfect group. Had a bunch of classmates looking and interviewing in Texas,. With the USAP take over, they seem to think the best gig right now in Texas is the gig in Austin that is still partner owned and hiring partners.

Long buy in I guess, but the ones who checked it out said the partners, including the young ones, are extremely happy.

Funny enough, they say that it's not that popular of a group in Texas, but after looking into it, they say a lot of that comes from the fact that they probably interview and hire more people from non Texas programs than Texas programs, and while the majority of those hired over the past decade have made partner, a few who didn't were from Texas programs...so I think that's hurt the reputation in Texas. That was their theory at least.

There are equal partner groups still out there despite what people on this board think. I know of lots in Midwest, southeast, west But it's tough to get into them

 

[chocomorsel]

I interviewed with both a long time ago as well. Both STAR and Tejas had divisions that serviced particular areas of San Antonio if I remember correctly. There was some degree of following surgeons. Things may have changed over the last 10 years. My current group services several hospitals and many surgery centers. Our schedules keep us at one place 95% of the time. Sometimes we go for a ride to a surgery center or another hospital.
Squeezing in a lunch at a restaurant or running some errands on a sunny day between cases has it's merits. I don't mind it, but everything is pretty close to each other.

Same for my group. Man, I wish I had time for eating in restaurants between cases. I rarely get to eat, period. My group manages to keep us in one hospital most days. I would say 80% of the time. But other groups here in town, not so much.

I am starting to get tired of all the driving though.

When I interviewed in San Antonio, two of the subgroups told me I would be driving all over town with the surgeons. But maybe not all the subgroups do it that way. Kinda turned me off because San Antonio is even more spread out than where I am currently.

 

[chocomorsel]

yep no perfect group. Had a bunch of classmates looking and interviewing in Texas,. With the USAP take over, they seem to think the best gig right now in Texas is the gig in Austin that is still partner owned and hiring partners.

Long buy in I guess, but the ones who checked it out said the partners, including the young ones, are extremely happy.

Funny enough, they say that it's not that popular of a group in Texas, but after looking into it, they say a lot of that comes from the fact that they probably interview and hire more people from non Texas programs than Texas programs, and while the majority of those hired over the past decade have made partner, a few who didn't were from Texas programs...so I think that's hurt the reputation in Texas. That was their theory at least.

There are equal partner groups still out there despite what people on this board think. I know of lots in Midwest, southeast, west But it's tough to get into them

I think and suspect that there are a lot of good groups centered in the Midwest. Problem is, it is hella cold, and most of them are supervising midlevels most of the time, if not all the time. I can't handle the cold nor am I interested in supervising more than half my cases.

 

[Ignatius J]

I interviewed with both a long time ago as well. Both STAR and Tejas had divisions that serviced particular areas of San Antonio if I remember correctly. There was some degree of following surgeons. Things may have changed over the last 10 years. My current group services several hospitals and many surgery centers. Our schedules keep us at one place 95% of the time. Sometimes we go for a ride to a surgery center or another hospital.
Squeezing in a lunch at a restaurant or running some errands on a sunny day between cases has it's merits. I don't mind it, but everything is pretty close to each other.

Not too far off from what we do. I would say 60% of the time I'm at one place. Probably 30% a morning at one and an afternoon at another. Then 10% usually bouncing around, which usually involves calls/tight coverage.

 

[LebronManning]

Why? I'm not going to be making that salary 5 years from now. We are just trying to hold on as long as possible. You are probably more likely to make 250K a year than 750K a year.

The dollars gradually get sucked out every year.

Curious. 3.5 years later...are you still making that much?

 

[deleted50478]

yep no perfect group. Had a bunch of classmates looking and interviewing in Texas,. With the USAP take over, they seem to think the best gig right now in Texas is the gig in Austin that is still partner owned and hiring partners.

Long buy in I guess, but the ones who checked it out said the partners, including the young ones, are extremely happy.

Funny enough, they say that it's not that popular of a group in Texas, but after looking into it, they say a lot of that comes from the fact that they probably interview and hire more people from non Texas programs than Texas programs, and while the majority of those hired over the past decade have made partner, a few who didn't were from Texas programs...so I think that's hurt the reputation in Texas. That was their theory at least.

There are equal partner groups still out there despite what people on this board think. I know of lots in Midwest, southeast, west But it's tough to get into them

A majority of 51% making partner actually sucks big time since you’d lose a lot of money and get nothing in return for your years of partnership track. A majority of 90-95% is a different ballgame because some people just shouldn’t make partner and couldn’t be weeded out in the hiring process. Austin has a reputation for screwing partnership track people over. I don’t know if that’s fair or not, but they probably got that reputation for a reason. I’d want to know the percentage who make partner, ‘majority’ is too vague.

 

[LebronManning]

So bringing it back to topic....

Are these 7 figure income potentials in anesthesia still possible in suburbs of nice big cities, or do you have to be rural, or not possible at all?

What are reasonable income expectations for a general anesthesiologist in a nice metro area, starting and after partnership? And how does being part of a big AMC like USAP affect this?

 

[pgg]

So bringing it back to topic....

Are these 7 figure income potentials in anesthesia still possible in suburbs of nice big cities, or do you have to be rural, or not possible at all?

What are reasonable income expectations for a general anesthesiologist in a nice metro area, starting and after partnership? And how does being part of a big AMC like USAP affect this?

Your status line says you're a pre-med (accepted medical student). By the time it's relevant to you, there won't be any $million incomes to be had. The notion of earning that much working for an AMC is absolutely laughable. It's pretty extraordinarily for a 90%+ MGMA practice now. Everyone thinks they're special but you're probably not that special.

Reasonable expectations for a 2028 era new grad? A few hundred K as an employee. Somewhat less in "nice metro areas" and somewhat more in rural areas. Anybody's guess what the work environment will be, but figure less solo anesthesia and more supervision.

Of course by 2028 we may be concluding the second term of President Leftwing so who knows?

Whatever medical school you're accepted to, I hope it's a solid public one that won't leave you with $400K of debt to compound during residency. That's the number I'd dwell on right now if I were you, not income prognostications a decade in the future.

 

[deleted162650]

Your status line says you're a pre-med (accepted medical student). By the time it's relevant to you, there won't be any $million incomes to be had. The notion of earning that much working for an AMC is absolutely laughable. It's pretty extraordinarily for a 90%+ MGMA practice now. Everyone thinks they're special but you're probably not that special.

Reasonable expectations for a 2028 era new grad? A few hundred K as an employee. Somewhat less in "nice metro areas" and somewhat more in rural areas. Anybody's guess what the work environment will be, but figure less solo anesthesia and more supervision.

Of course by 2028 we may be concluding the second term of President Leftwing so who knows?

Whatever medical school you're accepted to, I hope it's a solid public one that won't leave you with $400K of debt to compound during residency. That's the number I'd dwell on right now if I were you, not income prognostications a decade in the future.

Wow, who pissed in your Corn Flakes this morning?

 

[pgg]

Wow, who pissed in your Corn Flakes this morning?

I'm having a great day.

Do you disagree that million dollar anesthesia jobs (especially employed AMC jobs in metro areas) are going to be attainable 10 years from now? Or that expensive private med schools financed with large loans are to be avoided?

 

[deleted162650]

I'm having a great day.

Do you disagree that million dollar anesthesia jobs (especially employed AMC jobs in metro areas) are going to be attainable 10 years from now? Or that expensive private med schools financed with large loans are to be avoided?

I don’t disagree. Your tone was just a lot more negative than the typical even keel well-reasoned responses you normally give.

 

[LebronManning]

Your status line says you're a pre-med (accepted medical student). By the time it's relevant to you, there won't be any $million incomes to be had. The notion of earning that much working for an AMC is absolutely laughable. It's pretty extraordinarily for a 90%+ MGMA practice now. Everyone thinks they're special but you're probably not that special.

Reasonable expectations for a 2028 era new grad? A few hundred K as an employee. Somewhat less in "nice metro areas" and somewhat more in rural areas. Anybody's guess what the work environment will be, but figure less solo anesthesia and more supervision.

Of course by 2028 we may be concluding the second term of President Leftwing so who knows?

Whatever medical school you're accepted to, I hope it's a solid public one that won't leave you with $400K of debt to compound during residency. That's the number I'd dwell on right now if I were you, not income prognostications a decade in the future.

No debt because doctor dad, so yeah the only thing I'm dwelling on is future income. Anesthesiology still seems like one of the best "bang for your buck." As of right now, it seems that its 4 years residency --> starting 350K up to 550 as a partner (this is suburb of desirable city working 55 hrs). Thats a pretty damn good deal. Working more like 70 hrs might even get me to 600ish which is great. Relative to other specialties, seems like a chill way to make a lot of money without having to talk to annoying patients all day. Radiology definitely competes with anesthesia well on all these fronts at the cost of an extra 2 years of training (including fellowship since its pretty much required in rads).

I mean whats the alternative financially? surgical sub or interventional cards or GI. Very hard to make more than a million these days in any field and so theyre probably gonna hover around 600-700 for IC/GI and maybe 800-1M in Neurosurgery. That comes at the cost of 10x harder residency thats a few years longer too. If its all about the money, I'd argue the free time one would get in anesthesia could lead to more profitable endeavors than being a surgeon or IC/GI and maximizing W2.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[leaverus]

any further input about AZ? phoenix / scottsdale area - decent income?

 

[IlDestriero]

So bringing it back to topic....

Are these 7 figure income potentials in anesthesia still possible in suburbs of nice big cities, or do you have to be rural, or not possible at all?

What are reasonable income expectations for a general anesthesiologist in a nice metro area, starting and after partnership? And how does being part of a big AMC like USAP affect this?

If you’ll be happy making about 400k, you’ll probably be fine. If you want 600+ probably not.
If you’re lucky, you’ll make 400+ in a non AMC group, not covering 3-4:1 24/7 and not working like a dog. That’s all I wanted, and I’m pretty happy. Though my wife is also a professional earning 6 figures. That helps.

 

[deleted162650]

any further input about AZ? phoenix / scottsdale area - decent income?

Chandler is a good all MD lucrative group.

 

[IlDestriero]

any further input about AZ? phoenix / scottsdale area - decent income?

Phoenix used to be very good, but the big multicenter group sold out for the loot several years ago. That’s a second bullet I’ve dodged in my career when considering selling out for the cash and taking a few years off my retirement, and my life probably.

 

[psychbender]

New guy on probation: I have been hearing recently that guys in cash-only Psych or DPC practices are making not quite as much, but with far less work, so those could be options, too.

As for your actual question, as has been stated on here by many, the really high earning practices still currently exist, but they don't advertise because they don't need to. The only way you'd likely get in to one is by going to one of the residency programs from which they recruit, and knowing the right person to point them your way, and graduating right at a time that they happen to need someone new (lots of aligning of stars to make that happen). More likely, you can find a hospital employed, PP, or AMC practice where you can make $300-450k, somewhere between 100% solo and 100% 4:1 ACT, with call frequency somewhere between 1 in 4 and 1 in 30, in a place somewhere between a major city and the middle of nowhere. But, all or none of that may be true in a decade. Is that helpful?

 

[dhb]

Any good surgeon is well into 7 figures.

 

[LebronManning]

Any good surgeon is well into 7 figures.

I hope you’re exaggerating because this is very inaccurate.

 

[dhb]

I hope you’re exaggerating because this is very inaccurate.

Prove it

 

[Twiggidy]

I hope you’re exaggerating because this is very inaccurate.

I know for certain a handful of surgeons I work with file 7 figure W-2s

It also had me thinking the other day....isn't it funny how me know salaries for most professional athletes when we're hush hush about everyone elses salary. Sure most govt officials and state workers salaries are public but why is it that we all know Bryce Harper's salary but not our local surgeon?

 

[LebronManning]

Prove it

Per MGMA, the only surgeons that can make 7 figures are neurosurgeons, ortho, and plastics and even thats only like 75th-90th percentile and above. Thus, probably only 5% of all surgeons in this country make 7 figures and that's probably generous. Vast majority of surgeons are general surgeons

I know for certain a handful of surgeons I work with file 7 figure W-2s

It also had me thinking the other day....isn't it funny how me know salaries for most professional athletes when we're hush hush about everyone elses salary. Sure most govt officials and state workers salaries are public but why is it that we all know Bryce Harper's salary but not our local surgeon?

If a surgeon signed a 330 million dollar contract, we'd hear about it. Out of curiosity, what specialty are these 7 figure surgeons you work with?

 

[pgg]

I don’t disagree. Your tone was just a lot more negative than the typical even keel well-reasoned responses you normally give.

Guess I should use more smileys

And I'm not really so negative about the future. I think anesthesia is a great field and a career earning a few hundred K can be a pretty great life, provided the hours and work environment are reasonable.

I don't want to discourage pre-meds, just temper the expectations a bit. There aren't and won't be a lot of us making $1M+.

 

[dhb]

Per MGMA, the only surgeons that can make 7 figures are neurosurgeons, ortho, and plastics and even thats only like 75th-90th percentile and above. Thus, probably only 5% of all surgeons in this country make 7 figures and that's probably generous. Vast majority of surgeons are general surgeons



If a surgeon signed a 330 million dollar contract, we'd hear about it. Out of curiosity, what specialty are these 7 figure surgeons you work with?

And per my basic calculus:
6 operations 1 day a week @ 1500$ average + 4 days of clinic seeing 25 patients a day @ 100$ a pop 40 weeks per year gets you to 750k and he's hitting the golf course before 4pm 4 days out of 5.

Lifestyle like you read about it.

A good general surgeon showed me his numbers: he was pulling 25k€/week just in the OR and don't even try telling me reimbursements are lower in the US than in the EU.

I don't think i'd even trust a surgeon not making 7 figures.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Per MGMA, the only surgeons that can make 7 figures are neurosurgeons, ortho, and plastics and even thats only like 75th-90th percentile and above. Thus, probably only 5% of all surgeons in this country make 7 figures and that's probably generous. Vast majority of surgeons are general surgeons



If a surgeon signed a 330 million dollar contract, we'd hear about it. Out of curiosity, what specialty are these 7 figure surgeons you work with?

Bruhh.. you think that surgeons making 1M+ are going to post about it or respond to an MGMA survey? So that hospital administrators can cut his/her salary? Theres a big selection/survey bias to the MGMA salaries.

 

[tennessee2244]

I don't think i'd even trust a surgeon not making 7 figures.

you are mentally challenged

 

[deleted162650]

You have to factor in overhead for surgeons which is typically 40-60% of revenue. Clinic is typically a money loser for Gen Surg. ENT and Uro clinic can be profitable due to procedures. Then factor in that often times follow-up is bundled with surgery so post-op visits aren’t reimbursed at all.

 

[dhb]

you are mentally challenged

HAHAHA you funny

 

[LebronManning]

Let me rephrase:

Is 500-550k still doable as a USAP partner in cities like Denver, Seattle, San Diego?

 

[MirrorTodd]

Dont get your hopes up and you won't be disappointed. I'll finish my military service obligation in 2025 and I would be surprised to make >500k by then.

 

[Mman]

And per my basic calculus:
6 operations 1 day a week @ 1500$ average + 4 days of clinic seeing 25 patients a day @ 100$ a pop 40 weeks per year gets you to 750k and he's hitting the golf course before 4pm 4 days out of 5.

Lifestyle like you read about it.

A good general surgeon showed me his numbers: he was pulling 25k€/week just in the OR and don't even try telling me reimbursements are lower in the US than in the EU.

I don't think i'd even trust a surgeon not making 7 figures.

I'd be kinda shocked if many general surgeons in the US were making 7 figures. They would have to be both insanely fast and have a very good payer mix. Subspecialty stuff could get there easier. But they just aren't making that much money for your average lap chole or hernia.

 

[agammaglobulin]

Let me rephrase:

Is 500-550k still doable as a USAP partner in cities like Denver, Seattle, San Diego?

In Seattle, last I checked USAP was paying roughly $150/hr. 55 hours a week, 6 weeks vacation a year gets you to $350k. Maybe they have some incentive for weekend/night call but it doesn't look like you are getting to 500K at USAP.

 

[LebronManning]

In Seattle, last I checked USAP was paying roughly $150/hr. 55 hours a week, 6 weeks vacation a year gets you to $350k. Maybe they have some incentive for weekend/night call but it doesn't look like you are getting to 500K at USAP.

Wouldn’t a partner be making more?

 

[Twiggidy]

If we're talking about General Surgeons, then yes, the RARE breed may pull more than a million. My response was referring to orthos, uro, plastics, and even vascular......in the right part of the country with the right group and the right patients and if they're busy enough they can easily pull a million.

 

[kidthor]

Wouldn’t a partner be making more?

Not really, because they're fake partners. They're partners in getting collectively shafted while a finance group steals the income and the doctors take all the risk.

AMC partners are more of the "howdy partner" sort rather than business partner sort.

A real partner owns part of the group, makes business decisions, and shares in profits. USAP (and all AMC) partners are none of that.

 

[Twiggidy]

Not really, because they're fake partners. They're partners in getting collectively shafted while a finance group steals the income and the doctors take all the risk.

AMC partners are more of the "howdy partner" sort rather than business partner sort.

A real partner owns part of the group, makes business decisions, and shares in profits. USAP (and all AMC) partners are none of that.

Real talk

 

[LebronManning]

Not really, because they're fake partners. They're partners in getting collectively shafted while a finance group steals the income and the doctors take all the risk.

AMC partners are more of the "howdy partner" sort rather than business partner sort.

A real partner owns part of the group, makes business decisions, and shares in profits. USAP (and all AMC) partners are none of that.

I get that it obviously sucks compared to being a real partner in a PP group. But surely you still make more as a partner than non partner. So how much more is it generally? If making 350k to start at 55 hrs/wk, can you still expect 500k as a partner working 60-65 hrs/wk?

 

[Twiggidy]

I get that it obviously sucks compared to being a real partner in a PP group. But surely you still make more as a partner than non partner. So how much more is it generally? If making 350k to start at 55 hrs/wk, can you still expect 500k as a partner working 60-65 hrs/wk?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this but I would get away from the expectation of making a certain salary based on the hours worked per week. I get a sense that many of the good practices worth working for a moving towards productivity based compensation. Therefore, in order to make more money you'll need to work more. Not based on hours, per se, but by doing more cases.

 

[deleted547339]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this but I would get away from the expectation of making a certain salary based on the hours worked per week. I get a sense that many of the good practices worth working for a moving towards productivity based compensation. Therefore, in order to make more money you'll need to work more. Not based on hours, per se, but by doing more cases.

Yea, if you want $/hr - EM or CCM, pretty much everything else isn’t $/hr

 

[kidthor]

I get that it obviously sucks compared to being a real partner in a PP group. But surely you still make more as a partner than non partner. So how much more is it generally? If making 350k to start at 55 hrs/wk, can you still expect 500k as a partner working 60-65 hrs/wk?

No.

And that workweek sounds awful. Don't you have non-work life interests? If you work for an AMC you shouldn't be working that hard. Otherwise you're a golden (bronze?) handcuffed serf.


Your best bets are:

1) A true partnership private practice model. Rare yet possible. Also known as the promised land.

or...

2) Academic practice model. You'll be guaranteed to be underpaid, but at least in a quasi-fair socialistic sense.