9 withdrawals. yes, 9. Basically over?

[doubtful]

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3 "F"s as well, all in easy non science courses as a sophmore. Overall gpa of 3.45. 4.0 science gpa. Will these withdrawals/F's virtually disqualify me?

Thank you for your time

 

[nonesuchgirl]

overall gpa is low

why the w and f?

 

[mc4435]

I'm surprised your GPA is that high honestly, considering those F's. If you've shown great improvement since sophomore year (and maybe if you have a good excuse for those F's and W's) you have a better shot. F's and 9 W's does hurt you, but no one will be able to tell you for sure that you won't get in. Plus MCAT makes a huge difference.

 

[flip26]

The 3 Fs have killed your GPA, and that is your real problem.

What is your BCPM? If over 3.7, that would be a definite plus.

Not sure about the Ws, but I don't think that is your problem.

 

[doubtful]

overall gpa is low

why the w and f?

really valid, excusable and rational reasons like: laziness, alcohol, boredom, and general apathy.🙄

I'm surprised your GPA is that high honestly, considering those F's. If you've shown great improvement since sophomore year (and maybe if you have a good excuse for those F's and W's) you have a better shot. F's and 9 W's does hurt you, but no one will be able to tell you for sure that you won't get in. Plus MCAT makes a huge difference.

Yeah I aced all the traditionally tough classes once I got my act together. A's every science class I took.

The 3 Fs have killed your GPA, and that is your real problem.

What is your BCPM? If over 3.7, that would be a definite plus.

Not sure about the Ws, but I don't think that is your problem.

Is that essentially science gpa? Not familiar with the term, sorry. Googled it didn't find anything. If so, yeah, I've got a 4.0 science gpa.

I really appreciate all of your thoughts so far. I'm shocked by those who imply I have a shot. Pleasantly so, obviously

 

[Begaster]

BCPM = Biology, chemistry, physics, math classes.

 

[JackDanielMD]

really valid, excusable and rational reasons like: laziness, alcohol, boredom, and general apathy.🙄

Yeah I aced all the traditionally tough classes once I got my act together. A's every science class I took.

Is that essentially science gpa? Not familiar with the term, sorry. Googled it didn't find anything. If so, yeah, I've got a 4.0 science gpa.

I really appreciate all of your thoughts so far. I'm shocked by those who imply I have a shot. Pleasantly so, obviously

OK, I like you. Basically, you did the same thing as me, and have the same GPA. I got into TCOM, and I'm still waitlisted at a handful of other schools. Do well on the MCAT, and come up with reasonable reasons (LIES) for your sophomore year.

 

[doubtful]

BCPM = Biology, chemistry, physics, math classes.

gotcha, thanks. In that case, yes, 4.0 BCPM. Admittedly, I never took calculus, so it may be a slightly disingenuous number according to some

 

[scarletgirl777]

really valid, excusable and rational reasons like: laziness, alcohol, boredom, and general apathy.🙄

Yeah I aced all the traditionally tough classes once I got my act together. A's every science class I took.

Is that essentially science gpa? Not familiar with the term, sorry. Googled it didn't find anything. If so, yeah, I've got a 4.0 science gpa.

I really appreciate all of your thoughts so far. I'm shocked by those who imply I have a shot. Pleasantly so, obviously

For MD schools, you have to include Fs even if you retake the class...I don't know how your science GPA can be 4.0 when you factor that in if you have failed 3 science classes.

 

[bozz]

really valid, excusable and rational reasons like: laziness, alcohol, boredom, and general apathy.🙄

Yeah I aced all the traditionally tough classes once I got my act together. A's every science class I took.

Is that essentially science gpa? Not familiar with the term, sorry. Googled it didn't find anything. If so, yeah, I've got a 4.0 science gpa.

I really appreciate all of your thoughts so far. I'm shocked by those who imply I have a shot. Pleasantly so, obviously

Wow, how!? I had 1 C (2.0) first semester, freshman year, and it took 3 more semesters of 3.7+ to get up to a 3.5. I'd expect 3 Fs to destroy your GPA.

3Fs = 0 * 3 + 0*3 + 0*3 = 0 credits where you could have gotten 36

And if you withdrew from so many courses (9), that makes the Fs have an even bigger impact. I don't understand how your GPA is so high.

 

[flip26]

Is that essentially science gpa? Not familiar with the term, sorry. Googled it didn't find anything. If so, yeah, I've got a 4.0 science gpa.

I really appreciate all of your thoughts so far. I'm shocked by those who imply I have a shot. Pleasantly so, obviously

Nice science grades. That is a big plus.

But don't be too pleased and don't read too much into what we are saying - you have a big plus, but you have a more than offsetting big minus - you are still on the fairly low side for GPA, and it will limit you.

Average matriculant GPA is 3.7. That 3.4 is a BIG problem, and anecdotally from reading the threads this year, applicants with sub 3.6 GPAs are really hurting this year, even ones with otherwise high MCATS and other good stuff...competition is on the upswing...not a good time to have anything less than stellar grades, etc...

 

[doubtful]

OK, I like you. Basically, you did the same thing as me, and have the same GPA. I got into TCOM, and I'm still waitlisted at a handful of other schools. Do well on the MCAT, and come up with reasonable reasons (LIES) for your sophomore year.

hahahaha. I appreciate the honesty man. congrads on your admittance!

For MD schools, you have to include Fs even if you retake the class...I don't know how your science GPA can be 4.0 when you factor that in if you have failed 3 science classes.

No, I got my "F's in non science courses. Real intellectual juggernauts like "intro to American politics," "ethics 101"(irony?) and "intro to justice studies." To just be real about it, I bailed out of the country for about a month mid semester in pursuit of 19yo love😛

 

[Wylde]

Wow, how!? I had 1 C (2.0) first semester, freshman year, and it took 3 more semesters of 3.7+ to get up to a 3.5. I'd expect 3 Fs to destroy your GPA.

3Fs = 0 * 3 + 0*3 + 0*3 = 0 credits where you could have gotten 36

How does your 1 c lower your gpa so much?

I pumped a "C" into my calculator and in an 18 credit semester with all As and a 3 credit C, it equals a 3.67.

Say you take:

4 semesters of 18 credits = 72 credits

9 credits (3 Fs) = 9 * 0 = 0
63 credits (All As) = 63 * 4 = 252

252 points / 72 credits = 3.5 GPA

This would be assuming you get a 4.0 besides your Fs, but it is possible.

EDIT: To actually answer the OPs question instead of only being a douchebag:

You are going to need to get a GPA around at least 3.7 (to offset those Ws, imo) if you come from a decent ugrad. You'll also need an above average MCAT (around 33+) and solid ECs. Like a previous poster stated, a 3.6 seems be the minimum these days and you have a tarnished record already. Work hard, get As, get good ECs/MCAT and you have a shot at allopathic imo.

 

[bozz]

How does your 1 c lower your gpa so much?

I pumped a "C" into my calculator and in an 18 credit semester with all As and a 3 credit C, it equals a 3.67.

Say you take:

4 semesters of 18 credits = 72 credits

9 credits (3 Fs) = 9 * 0 = 0
63 credits (All As) = 63 * 4 = 252

252 points / 72 credits = 3.5 GPA

This would be assuming you get a 4.0 besides your Fs, but it is possible.

I did have a couple of Bs too... but still, even 1 F would kill anyone's GPA, let alone 3

 

[doubtful]

Wow, how!? I had 1 C (2.0) first semester, freshman year, and it took 3 more semesters of 3.7+ to get up to a 3.5. I'd expect 3 Fs to destroy your GPA.

3Fs = 0 * 3 + 0*3 + 0*3 = 0 credits where you could have gotten 36

And if you withdrew from so many courses (9), that makes the Fs have an even bigger impact. I don't understand how your GPA is so high.

aced literally almost every course I didn't fail. I got a few B's, and the rest A's

Nice science grades. That is a big plus.

But don't be too pleased and don't read too much into what we are saying - you have a big plus, but you have a more than offsetting big minus - you are still on the fairly low side for GPA, and it will limit you.

Average matriculant GPA is 3.7. That 3.4 is a BIG problem, and anecdotally from reading the threads this year, applicants with sub 3.6 GPAs are really hurting this year, even ones with otherwise high MCATS and other good stuff...competition is on the upswing...not a good time to have anything less than stellar grades, etc...

hmmm...appreciate you bringing me down to reality. Thanks.

 

[flip26]

I did have a couple of Bs too... but still, even 1 F would kill anyone's GPA, let alone 3

I haven't run the numbers, but a single F puts a hole in a GPA that can never be recovered. The real key is that it knocks your GPA down some minimal amount, even assuming you making nothing but As for all the rest of your college courses (and how likely is that) - seems like you are capped at a max of around 3.8 once you make an F...somebody else can run the numbers, but Fs devastate a GPA.

 

[UFGatorMed]

I haven't run the numbers, but a single F puts a hole in a GPA that can never be recovered. The real key is that it knocks your GPA down some minimal amount, even assuming you making nothing but As for all the rest of your college courses (and how likely is that) - seems like you are capped at a max of around 3.8 once you make an F...somebody else can run the numbers, but Fs devastate a GPA.

Every "F" decreases your "possible gpa" by (0.1).
1=3.9
2=3.8
3=3.7

I would say you could get 3-4 "F's" and still be fine.

 

[Innokus]

Is your gpa calculation correct? I did a quick calculation and it turns out that the max gpa after getting 3 F's is 3.5. I calculated this from a total attempted 72 credit hours. Assuming a class is worth 3 credits, 3 F means 9 credits. So,
63 credits x 4 (assuming an A) = 252 Quality Points

252 Quality Points/ 72 credits = 3.5

That's pretty crazy how much it brings down gpa.

 

[brsboarder]

GPA is fine, most early on, no problem. I did fine in my process. Just get a 33+ on the mcat and apply broadly and try not to worry

 

[flip26]

Every "F" decreases your "possible gpa" by (0.1).
1=3.9
2=3.8
3=3.7

I would say you could get 3-4 "F's" and still be fine.

Your math is correct, but it misses the real point - if you make 3 Fs in 4 years, you will only have a 3.7 if you made all the rest As - how likely is it for someone to pull off that trick? Not very...

The point being you have really dug a hole for your cumulative GPA with 3 Fs - no matter how well you do the rest of your college career, your theoretical max GPA is 3.7, and it is going to be very difficult to end up north of 3.5 with just a few Bs and one or two Cs...

I don't think that any adcom is going to think someone with 3 to 4 Fs is doing "fine" no matter where their cum GPA ends up...

 

[tiedyeddog]

So, wait, how are you going to explain the 9 W's to the adcom? I doubt alcohol and laziness will be a very good excuse... I believe that many W's with a horrible reason for them might be consider'd F's in some adcom's eyes....

 

[Chris127]

In my opinion, the F's don't matter, because you have an overall GPA of a 3.45, and a science GPA of a 4.0. You may have to explain the F's, but it won't be a major problem. Your GPA is fine for the most part.

The nine W's, on the other hand...

 

[tiedyeddog]

In my opinion, the F's don't matter, because you have an overall GPA of a 3.45, and a science GPA of a 4.0. You may have to explain the F's, but it won't be a major problem. Your GPA is fine for the most part.

The nine W's, on the other hand...

I just gave it a few minutes of thought. Those W's are probably app killers... So, how many different semesters did you take 'w's"? How many semesters did you take enough hours to be a full time student? Those W's might be a blaring red flags that you can't handle a heavy course load... aka medical school cirriculum.. I doubt you could lie about 9 W's, considering the fact that you must have taken those w's over the span of your entire college career....

If you apply DO then those F's can be replaced by retakes.

 

[flip26]

In my opinion, the F's don't matter, because you have an overall GPA of a 3.45, and a science GPA of a 4.0. You may have to explain the F's, but it won't be a major problem. Your GPA is fine for the most part.

The nine W's, on the other hand...

A 3.45 is NOT fine. It is low. It is a deep hole for a med school applicant.

No need to sugar coat the OP's grade dilemma.

 

[taponthecloud]

In my opinion, the F's don't matter, because you have an overall GPA of a 3.45, and a science GPA of a 4.0. You may have to explain the F's, but it won't be a major problem. Your GPA is fine for the most part.

The nine W's, on the other hand...

One F is pretty bad. But THREE F's...now that says a lot. It shows that not only did you not learn your lesson the first and second time around, you also seem to be quite apathetic about your education in general. The W's further support this argument.

 

[dbhvt]

3 "F"s as well, all in easy non science courses as a sophmore. Overall gpa of 3.45. 4.0 science gpa. Will these withdrawals/F's virtually disqualify me?

Thank you for your time

To an admissions committee that is paying attention, your sophomore year displays a lack of judgement, rather than a lack of academic ability or even dedication. If you can back up your 4.0 science GPA with a very strong MCAT, an adcom isn't going to worry about your ability to deal with the academic rigor of medical school. Work on elements of your application that can show them that you have grown up since sophomore year. I wouldn't recommend applying straight out of school. Spend a year or two being successful in the real world. If you can't back up your science GPA with a very strong MCAT, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[LizzyM]

Some med schools see real promise in "broken arrows". Someone who did something crazy/stupid and then found redemption and who has talent might get a second chance. A few years ago I had an appie from someone from an Ivy who was tossed out with a gpa <2.0, got his head on straight, and came back to make very good use of his second chance and did well on the MCAT and had a great LOR that explained what had happened over the six years in question as well as addressing it in the PS, IIRC.

I had a friend in college who might have had 10 Ws. He was severely injured in an accident, dropped everything for the semester, went back the next semester only to drop everything again due to surgical complications that landed him in the hospital for several weeks. There are good reasons why someone might have a lot of Ws and not have it be the end of the world.

 

[mdgator]

I honestly didn't know it was possible to get 9 Ws. At my undergrad, you're only allowed 4...2 for the first 2 years and 2 for junior and senior. A small number of Ws must not be a huge deal...I had two, and wasn't asked about them...but 9 may be a different story.

The GPA is low, but some people certainly get in with 3.4s. But the combo of low GPA and high Ws could be very troublesome. I would still say that allopathic schools are worth a shot, if you can do well on the MCAT.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

1 w, won't even elicit a blink.

9, and questions start comin.

3 F's and 9 W's together looks bad. Keep your science GPA as a 4, don't try and explain it away in your app or PS, and don't say anythign dumb about your missteps during the interview

 

[thesauce]

1 w, won't even elicit a blink.

9, and questions start comin.

3 F's and 9 W's together looks bad. Keep your science GPA as a 4, don't try and explain it away in your app or PS, and don't say anythign dumb about your missteps during the interview

I had about 10 w's and it was never even brought up. They weren't w's because I was doing poorly, they were because I had to leave school in the middle of the quarter for 2 quarters in a row. Either way, it was never brought up so I never had to explain it.

 

[zenlike]

You should never rely on the withdrawal method.

 

[nonesuchgirl]

It's more effective than you think.

You should never rely on the withdrawal method.

 

[Wylde]

You should never rely on the withdrawal method.

Would you rather have:

3 Fs and 9 Ws

or

13 Fs (resulting in at MINIMUM a 2.7 gpa...)

 

[zenlike]

Would you rather have:

3 Fs and 9 Ws

or

13 Fs (resulting in at MINIMUM a 2.7 gpa...)

That was a double entendre regarding a notoriously ineffective method of birth control (approximate failure rate of something like 30% per year).

 

[taponthecloud]

I think your last resort is the "prayer method."

 

[tiedyeddog]

really valid, excusable and rational reasons like: laziness, alcohol, boredom, and general apathy.🙄

Yeah, sounds like a great excuse. I'm sure the adcoms will understand. Don't tell the other pre-meds, they might get ideas about my newfound key to glory...

 

[MedGirl08]

I think you need to show you have a lot of dediction on other areas -- research, clinical, etc. With these they might be willing to overlook a less than steller academic record.

 

[nash103]

I also have 9 Ws on my transcripts.

I had 32S MCAT and a 3.86 GPA

I was admitted everywhere that I interviewed, except 1 waitlist. The Ws were an issue (everywhere), but schools were not unforgiving. I had to discuss the Ws at every interview. Just make sure that you are honest, take full responsibility and show that you have matured/grown/learned, etc. Do not make excuses. I think my honestly and straight forward answers were appreciated.

I would be more worried about the 3.4, but if you do well enough on the MCAT...I dont see why you wouldn't have a good shot. Just apply broadly and be proactive....maybe schedule appointments with Admissions to discuss your file.